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Paradox of life...

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#1
I was interested in gauging the level of other INTP's for research reasons, so oblige me..

The Quandrum is the following..feel free to speculate.

'Look before you leap...'
'He who dares wins...'


Practical Values: Religious Values:

Winning, - Losing,
Income, - Outgo,
Eating, - Fasting,
Action, - Passivity,
Earning, - Giving,
Owning, - Giving to the poor,
Sex, - Celibacy,



Quite the predicament, :)


Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
 

Ermine

is watching and taking notes
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#2
not necessarily a paradox with some of those. Celibacy is not the ideal. If it were, the human race would have died out a long time ago. Also, in earning, you gain money which you can use to help the poor. In owning, you are able to accomodate yourself and others (including the poor). I have no idea where you got the passivity idea. It's entirely pointless to be passive when it comes to religion. There is no good to be done by doing nothing. Also, for religion, it's not losing, exactly, but sacrifice, losing something to gain something better. However, in one big aspect, you have proved a point. Religion in general is about going against human nature in an effort to transcend it.

And what do you mean by gauging the level of other INTPs?
 
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#3
There is a revelation within studying the nature of duality, by observing the pairs of opposites. The religious values are true to the catholic church. Fasting, celibacy, owning little are the holy path. Capitalism is generally in direct opposition to it. There is a very strange tearing effect in the West concerning, the spiritual and materialistic aspects, with the material winning out generally.

You can reach a point where by making decisions becomes impossible, as you know that neither opposite is better than the other, but of course you can't go in two directions at once.

The Hamlet dillemma,

P
 

loveofreason

echoes through time
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#4
Yes, trapped between heaven and earth ...what are we to do? (That's rhetorical by the way!)

And it can be a very fine line between the paralysing catatonia when "making decisions becomes impossible", and the fruitful tension of being held between polarities.

Sometimes one can achieve a state where the third phase window opens up - the either/or dissolves into both/and* - it's like the most breath-taking view and a lung full of the cleanest air. Makes you want to sing!

Ultimately without the paradox created by dualities we wouldn't have the opportunity for development and realisation of unity. There would be no conscious life.

* See the Tao of Chaos by Katya Walter for a thorough exploration of this topic
 
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#5
Yes we live in Duality for a reason, hence why we symbolically left the garden of eden. But the ultimate path is to become whole again (holiness). Taking an attitude of complacence is a defeatist attitude.

I found joy at the bottom of great suffering recently, it was a startling revelation.

Has anyone else experienced this? Finding the opposite by following it through all the way. Pleasure turning into pain, pain turning into pleasure, they say when your tortured, they have to stop at a certain point as the experience starts to become pleasurable. Makes you wonder how much we take things for granted. Maybe our worlds aren't as simple as we expected.

Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
 

Wisp

The Soft Rational
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#6
Personally, I believe that's just part of the complexity of the human mind, which I believe we can never fully understand, and if we could it would just leave us feeling empty.
 
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#7
*cough* Atlas Shrugged *cough* John Galt *cough*

There ain't no paradox, because religious values as presented by the church aren't meant to help you, but to keep you docile.

I'm sure I just made some friends with that one.

But seriously, read and enjoy. I highlighted my copy.
 

Ermine

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#8
^ I think it really depends on which church. In the case of some churches, I agree with you. However, everything has its exceptions. In my church, I've never felt like they've tried to subdue me with its principles, and not just because I've been lulled into believing that.

I definitely need to read Atlas Shrugged. Maybe I'll get to it as soon as I finish reading The Fountainhead. Ayn Rand is awesome.
 

Wisp

The Soft Rational
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#9
I should read these books. I actually like my church more than most because its so relaxed.
 

Sparky

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#10
*cough* Atlas Shrugged *cough* John Galt *cough*

There ain't no paradox, because religious values as presented by the church aren't meant to help you, but to keep you docile.

I'm sure I just made some friends with that one.

But seriously, read and enjoy. I highlighted my copy.
You made a friend here. :) I did like that book, but the writing/plot got a little messy and that was distracting. Still, I don't feel like I totally wasted my time.

Christianity is one religion of many, although Duality is as aspect of most; but in my experience only part is acknowledged and encouraged - the other is projected onto Satan, and Evil, and such.
I understand Christianity's (or any organized religion) value (on the personal level), it use (on a wide-scale), but in the business of just being human and living life, and even self-actualizing, I think it hinders more than it helps; at least on the face of it, and the way it is taught and experienced for most. Don't want to give the impression that I think it's completly useless, because I don't. It's rich overall, but so often the scope of teachings for the flock, usually doesn't begin to accomplish what it could. I feel like these teachers are tight and selfish with their knowledge, and many just go on their word - never even hardly reading the bible for themselves.
 

Yozuki

Active Member
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#11
I was interested in gauging the level of other INTP's for research reasons, so oblige me..

The Quandrum is the following..feel free to speculate.

'Look before you leap...'
'He who dares wins...'


Practical Values: Religious Values:

Winning, - Losing,
Income, - Outgo,
Eating, - Fasting,
Action, - Passivity,
Earning, - Giving,
Owning, - Giving to the poor,
Sex, - Celibacy,



Quite the predicament, :)


Zeke Johnson ( Ex-Captain )
No data and no interpretation time. Assumed interpretation:

Yozuki hates losing with all passion in the core pump. Winning is everything, but compassion and mercy are also justice in the great extreme. No data on how humans should treat each other in such respects. Yozuki wants to win, not to lose, but not to crush other bipedal human mechanical. Indubitably it is without saying Yozuki wants to remain solo, but join up with other people and partner to such extremes of winning.

Income type is bilateral to centrifical outgoing of spend and expenses. Total income is in lower and middle class of bipedal human mechanical. Yozuki is thinking to much the enjoyment of leaving the corporate commercial and eating of the bi-processed and seperated food. Yes, Yozuki thinks the illustrious green monentary unit is useful for personal pleasure. However, too much the spending I think so.

Yozuki is the eating the many time, but excersizing most assuredly. Yozuki is also engaging in the fasting activity when green monentary unit is low. Yozuki is muchly enjoying the Monster Energy Assault when combustion system is active.

Yozuki is the taking action when final goal met. However, Yozuki is the passive-aggressive when planning stage it is. Indeed Yozuki thinks so.

Yozuki is the spending long the time bored during corporate environment with many the selling of product activity. Yozuki enjoys muchly receiving money for boredom and returning it with enjoyment. Yozuki is the hardly giving he thinks so. Yozuki is the giving when outside monentary system.

Yozuki is the not caring about the poor. Yozuki is the poor and poorer still, but the rich he also is. Too much the amusing Yozuki thinks so.

Yozuki is the type Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with sideorder Cognitive Behavior Therapy and much receiving control over his disorder. Turning it into the math-co-processor calculatory repository. Moreever, fear it is instilled when thoughts of reproduction with other type bi-pedal human mechanical. Yozuki is the spending long time turn drive sexy off.

Yozuki is think the predicament is a solved.

Seeing you the later crocodile.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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#12
As far as I've seen, religion is just another form of hypnosis. And people can hypnotise themselves.



Actually, go learn about hypnosis. It is possibly the most interesting part of the human psychology because, in essence, it is belief. Please, go now and learn about it properly. Derren Brown gives a good assessment.
 

Wisp

The Soft Rational
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#13
Stalin once said that religion is a convenient tool for controlling the masses.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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#14
true. Seriously, go check out hypnosis. It's class A entertainment, really.
 

Wisp

The Soft Rational
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#15
I might sometime. Got a good site?
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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#16
Just a pile of E-books and one paperback by Derren Brown, but that book in itself is the most useful thing I've ever read. It's called Derren Brown - Trick Of The Mind.
You can probably get it from a shopping site like E-bay.
 

QuickTwist

Alive - Born Anew
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#17
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