Opiates and emotions

[Zombie]

I'm posting this because because others and myself (mainly women I've been involved with) have noticed that I'm much more emotional and open when I'm on opiate pain killers. I dislike the fact that I have to take opiates on a regular basis, but they really help with back problems I'm suffering.
I've noticed that I am actually able to experience empathy and other emotions. When I see something that most people find sad I actually feel sad myself instead of having to fake it. My last long term GF use to love when I took them because she always said I became a much more loving and open person. In all my relationships with women I've been accused of being closed and never really understood what that meant and that has been a big downside in many cases.

Has anyone else experienced this effect while on opiates?

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Yes. To an extent at least.

I found I was more open, outgoing and funnier. I wish I was still on them rather than stuck in a medical system that keeps trying other options that thus far have not worked. I was prescribed Percocet for almost two years and felt far more functional physically, emotionally and socially than I have since. Now it's spinal injections, knee injections, pool therapy and so on. If I'm active one day (as in on my feet for more than a couple hours in an 8 hour period) then I'm pretty much gauranteed to be miserable the next.

The doctors keep telling me that all that did was mask the problems rather than trying to solve the problems. To me though, masking the problems was as close as they ever got to being solved. Right now that would be preferable.

/complaining (for now )

 

[EvilScientist Trainee]

So, I spent some time researching this, and now have a proposition.

Let's assume that feeling open, empathic and outgoing is the opposite of being depressed.

The system in the brain that is responsible for the dysfunction found in depression (A dysfunction in the monoaminergic system, which encompasses the release of serotonin and noradrenaline), when attacked by drugs that inhibit the uptake of monoamines, tend to increase the rate of release of endogenous opiates, which in turn seems to increase the uptake of these monoamines.

I believe that by using an opiate to treat your pain, you also bind opiates to the receptors of these endogenous opiates, without producing the proper bind to start the mechanism to increase the uptake. That is, the prescribed opiate blocks the endogenous opiate receptors, thus leading to a longer serotonin/noradrenaline time in the synapses, leading to the same effects of antidepressants.

Actually, opiates are now in research to become antidepressants. Differently than traditional antidepressants, they do not block the catalysis of serotonin actively, but increase the time that monoamines stay in synapses by modulating the uptake mechanisms for them.

Here's a good site with some studies on the antidepressant effect of opiates.

I hope that I answered it alright.

 

[Awaken]

Though you may be mad at the doctors, prescribing opiates for chronic pain would be like giving a kid the key to the candy factory. Would make you happy, yes, but unethical.

 

[Zombie]

Though you may be mad at the doctors, prescribing opiates for chronic pain would be like giving a kid the key to the candy factory. Would make you happy, yes, but unethical.

I'm guessing you haven't dealt with chronic pain yourself. Most people that I've met DO NOT want to be on pain medications and that includes myself. I've tried everything I can to avoid getting on opiate pain killers. 2+ years trying alternative treatments, 4 epidural injections, 2 facet injections (these injections all required me being under anesthesia). Been through several drugs starting with gabapentin, then tramadol which caused me to experience depression (most likely due to it's effect on serotonin). I've also tried massage therapy, and chiropractic therapy and am not trying physical therapy and had several serapin muscle injections and I also use lidocain patches to help with the muscles locking up.

Many of the chronic pain suffers i've talked to have been through the same things I have and eventually exhaust them all just like I am doing and are left with no choice but drug therapy with opiate pain killers.

My views on chronic pain and using drug therapy to manage it have drastically changed now that I'm on the receiving end of it. Your statement is shows a lack of understanding of pain.

I am quite surprised in my personality change now that I've given in to opiate use on a regular basis. While I never felt that I had social issues, I did notice that I never felt like I fit in anywhere or could form a strong bond with others. I have formed strong bonds with a few people, but never had the kind of interpersonal relationships most people have.

EvilScientist Trainee,

Thank you for your post. It's going to take me a bit to digest and research everything you said, but I find the this very interesting. Others have noticed the change in my personality as well and the from what I'm seeing, it's positive.

While I do not encourage illegal drug use and am against drugs in general, I am fascinated by what I'm experiencing emotionally.

Inappropriate Behavior,

If you haven't tried a pain management doctor I'd suggest it, but finding a good one seems like it could be a major challenge since there are many who just put you on drugs and then forget you. I'm personally exhausting every option to avoid long term drug use, but I'm almost out of options. A surgeon just went to said I'm not a candidate, but he also seemed a bit dismissive about my issues since I don't have anything major that stands out on my MRI's as being the cause of my pain yet I have physical signs of it such as the muscles on the right side of my back always being locked up.

If anyone else who is reading this has had experience with opiates / pain and how it has effected your emotions and relationships I'd appreciate it if you shared.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Though you may be mad at the doctors, prescribing opiates for chronic pain would be like giving a kid the key to the candy factory. Would make you happy, yes, but unethical.

Fuck ethics. When an otherwise healthy 43 year old often lies in bed at night wondering how many years he's going live as he's living before taking matters into his own hands, what good is ethics to the patient? It's not depression that brings those thoughts. It's depressing to be sure but it's not depression. It's actually quite rational. It's hard for those unfamiliar with the experience to understand how death might seem like a relief. Now consider that strong pain killers are the only thing thus far to chase those thoughts away as death no longer seems like a relief. Still unethical?

@zombie, Yep. It all sounds familiar. I just took Gabapenten (600mg) and Tramadol (150mg) 30 minutes ago which does at least allow me to do a few things for myself. I just recently began seeing another pain specialist who put me on low doses of cymbalta and that was a HUGE mistake. It would take a lot of explaining but I was on it less than this past month and what it did to me would strike me as more unethical. Do be careful if a doctor ever tries to talk you into taking that or anything in the same "family" of meds. I'm not saying don't try it but do have someone around to keep an eye on you.

As for the surgery, I understand wanting it. For some it works great and they feel like their old selves again and that's a chance worth taking. I've had 3 and have ended up worse off (plus out 25 grand) yet I'm still willing to try again. Unfortunately the last neurosurgeon I saw looked at my latest MRI and said "All I can see is scar tissue". So the various doctors I'm seeing are giving me injections (steroid epidural for my back 3 times a year) and I'm gonna start Hyalgan for my knees soon (even though it's not arthritis). Like you, I don't know if anything is going to work but here's hoping.

Good luck to you.

 

[Awaken]

Honestly, I dont care if you get a PCA and push that thing until you get respiratory depression and die. Pain is a shitty thing to live with and we are adults with free will, your life is your own. My post was simply to defend the side of physicians. The issue is not as black and white as either of us are making it out to be, all Im trying to say is dont get mad at doctors if they do not want to prescribe opiates for chronic pain. You say I cant see it from your side, well you cant see it from mine either. Hope I did not derail the thread too much, I really wasnt trying to be a troll.

 

[Bird]

So, I spent some time researching this, and now have a proposition.

Let's assume that feeling open, empathic and outgoing is the opposite of being depressed.

The system in the brain that is responsible for the dysfunction found in depression (A dysfunction in the monoaminergic system, which encompasses the release of serotonin and noradrenaline), when attacked by drugs that inhibit the uptake of monoamines, tend to increase the rate of release of endogenous opiates, which in turn seems to increase the uptake of these monoamines.

I believe that by using an opiate to treat your pain, you also bind opiates to the receptors of these endogenous opiates, without producing the proper bind to start the mechanism to increase the uptake. That is, the prescribed opiate blocks the endogenous opiate receptors, thus leading to a longer serotonin/noradrenaline time in the synapses, leading to the same effects of antidepressants.

Actually, opiates are now in research to become antidepressants. Differently than traditional antidepressants, they do not block the catalysis of serotonin actively, but increase the time that monoamines stay in synapses by modulating the uptake mechanisms for them.

Here's a good site with some studies on the antidepressant effect of opiates.

I hope that I answered it alright.

+1

 

[Sensi Star]

I believe opiates to be an all-encompassing relief from many ailments, physical as well as psychological.

I understand what you mean OP, when I am on opiates I tend to be more sociable and empathic. No doubt they are the only surefire method of controlling pain, however I strongly think their psychological impact is hugely underrated. Some of these improvements I have radically experienced on opiates include:

motivation (which otherwise is so rare for me), relief from depression, relief from anxious 'tics', relief from obsessive thought patterns (OCD), relief from social anxiety, relief from ADD/ADHD, increase in empathy, stress-relief, tolerance to mundane tasks.

All of this makes opiates superior to serotonergic anti-depressants and stimulant medications, which are intrusive to brain chemistry and produce toxic effects that you can literally feel in your brain after some time. Opiates do not involve much of the toxicity involved with these traditional meds, as they are not neurotransmitter 'releasing agents' that overstimulate neurons, rather they act upon the 'neuromodulatory system', which make them more gentle on the brain.

It is clear that opiates would be miracle drugs if applied properly to psychotherapy. Now, if we can only find a way to solve the problem of addiction (ultra-low-dose naloxone anyone?).....

 

[Zombie]

I understand what you mean OP, when I am on opiates I tend to be more sociable and empathic. No doubt they are the only surefire method of controlling pain, however I strongly think their psychological impact is hugely underrated. Some of these improvements I have radically experienced on opiates include:

motivation (which otherwise is so rare for me), relief from depression, relief from anxious 'tics', relief from obsessive thought patterns (OCD), relief from social anxiety, relief from ADD/ADHD, increase in empathy, stress-relief, tolerance to mundane tasks.

I've noticed that I feel much more motivated, have less anxiety and am way more sociable. They are all very beneficial side effects in addition to the reduction in pain. Of course I'd prefer to not be on any drugs at all, but thankfully this time some of the side effects I'm experiencing on a drug are good.