Nothing is free : Why you should not steal computer software or services.

[ChristopherL]

Preface:

The Threats:
Botnets - Hackers have to realise that the effort required to break into your computer and sift through your data is not worth the effort. What is worth the effort is turning your PC into a zombie a bot. This bot is of course worthless on it's own but collectively a network of bots or botnet allows hackers to attack large instiutions by proxy and steal from them.
Botnets have been observed with as many as 6 million bots.

This is big business with lots of money involved.
Your PC has a big fat target painted on it's back and has the power of hundreds perhaps thousands of hackers working dilligently to take over your PC.
This new sort of software is sophisticated and subtle.


Software:

Stealing software is silly in this day and age.
When you download any software off the internet you are essentially trusting the source of the software to be a good person and not also install something unpleasant along with whatever piece of software you are too cheap to purchase.

This is especially obvious with activated software.
The people who worked to activate the Microsoft and Adobe keys systems have demonstrated the two things.
1. The ability to overcome the best efforts of large and skilled companies ability to protect their software.
2. The willingness to abuse this skillset.

The implication is obvious, getting sofware from this bunch is asking for it.


Stealing Wireless:
Everyone does it, but it is a very bad idea.
Allow my to paint a picture. I can bring up an open wireless network that will give incorrect addresses for all bank urls.

So when you enter bankofamerica.com instead of being sent to the real bank you are sent to a bank that looks like BOA but isn't. This website does not need to be functional. All it needs is to approximate boa up to the point of login so your information can be stolen.


These are just two very short and quick examples of things that people do routinely that is explicitly idiotic.

Don't be that guy.

 

[tom]

But,but...but its so easy and cheap

 

[ChristopherL]

http://arstechnica.com/security/new...its-the-kill-switch-takes-down-100000-pcs.ars

 

[Razare]

I love how the traditional term stealing has been applied to modern technologies in which when something is stolen, nothing is lost.

It's like if I went into a rich guy's house and stole a thousand dollars, and yet when I left the house his thousand dollars were still there and I'm happily walking away richer.

The traditional moral is based on the premise that when you take from others, they are losing the item are you taking.

Consider this modern occurrence immoral if you wish, but equating it to stealing is a subtle way of tying a new occurrence to an age old concept, even though the shoe doesn't fit.

 

[Razare]

Precisely what it is... it is a violation of Copyright Law. This is NOT theft, copyright law is a concept invented recently by man. The corporations have a vested interest in Copyright Law violation being equated to theft because doing so is profitable for them. They have money and lawyers to ensure this vision is instilled into the population.

I question whether basing the moral compass of society on the needs of corporations is a wise choice?

 

[Felan]

Precisely what it is... it is a violation of Copyright Law. This is NOT theft, copyright law is a concept invented recently by man. The corporations have a vested interest in Copyright Law violation being equated to theft because doing so is profitable for them. They have money and lawyers to ensure this vision is instilled into the population.

I question whether basing the moral compass of society on the needs of corporations is a wise choice?

I tend to pay for my software. I don't object to copywrite law. The thing that really irritates me is all the pointless crap companies put in there code to try and protect it from thief. It is often worthwhile to get the illegal version just so that it works better.

 

[Kuu]

Nothing is free: thus we should make bots to get rich!

Thank you, now I am enlightened

 

[ChristopherL]

I love how the traditional term stealing has been applied to modern technologies in which when something is stolen, nothing is lost.

It's like if I went into a rich guy's house and stole a thousand dollars, and yet when I left the house his thousand dollars were still there and I'm happily walking away richer.

The traditional moral is based on the premise that when you take from others, they are losing the item are you taking.

Consider this modern occurrence immoral if you wish, but equating it to stealing is a subtle way of tying a new occurrence to an age old concept, even though the shoe doesn't fit.

A pointless aside.

 

[inerTia]

I am sorry, but to say that stealing wireless internet will lead to fake websites, is not quite true, the reason why is that at least about 60% or more of the population does not even understand or fully comprehend the differences between wep, wap, wap2. If they knew than you will not be seeing them running on old protocols. As such, if you were able to gain such access to the internet by breaking the encryption through various loop holes of each protocol, you won't be stupid enough to access the bank, leaving your mac address traceable with timestamps, and personal id.

In which your personal files, etc maybe keylogged packet sniffed etc, even if the pages were not rigged, this is even only assuming that X person(or infected) has set a trap as an objective to collect, and build a database of collective information.

You speak as if one who can break encryptions to wep, wap, wap2 as if chlidern who do not even comprehend basic html and authentication, yes there are tools to simplify the exploit, but with out comprehension the tools are as useless.

 

[Gorgrim]

'Ted, don't be that guy'

was a good post to read. Gotta be careful where you go

 

[ChristopherL]

I am sorry, but to say that stealing wireless internet will lead to fake websites, is not quite true, the reason why is that at least about 60% or more of the population does not even understand or fully comprehend the differences between wep, wap, wap2. If they knew than you will not be seeing them running on old protocols. As such, if you were able to gain such access to the internet by breaking the encryption through various loop holes of each protocol, you won't be stupid enough to access the bank, leaving your mac address traceable with timestamps, and personal id.

In which your personal files, etc maybe keylogged packet sniffed etc, even if the pages were not rigged, this is even only assuming that X person(or infected) has set a trap as an objective to collect, and build a database of collective information.

You speak as if one who can break encryptions to wep, wap, wap2 as if chlidern who do not even comprehend basic html and authentication, yes there are tools to simplify the exploit, but with out comprehension the tools are as useless.

You've missed the point.
You're assuming I'm speaking of hopping onto secured networks.
I am not.
Most people will connect to any "open" network they see.
This means I can trivially set up an open network designed specifically to
a. Send people to fake websites.
b. Passively capture information
c. Actively scan their PC for open ports, vulnerabilities, etc.

 

[inerTia]

You've missed the point.
You're assuming I'm speaking of hopping onto secured networks.
I am not.
Most people will connect to any "open" network they see.
This means I can trivially set up an open network designed specifically to
a. Send people to fake websites.
b. Passively capture information
c. Actively scan their PC for open ports, vulnerabilities, etc.

Even than the chances of that happening are quite slim, also why would any one access banking accounts on such a network? All I am saying is that, chances are slim, if anything, your more prone to malware/viruses by hooking your computer to the internet with out a secured browser(due to exploits and what not on webpages), even if you had anti virus, or spyware/malware protection you are still prone to them. Those tools are only useful if developers have updated the data base.

Even if you did do it, your method takes too much effort, you are better off doing a redirect to some randy home made trojan embedded page, which would utilze the web browser exploits, which than implants a trojan programmed to log his/her key strokes, sending it internally or externally to any source over sea's or back to the gateway, no point scanning his/her ports, etc. If you use your method, you might as well go build a wifi packet sniffer which collects every ones packet, so than you do not even need people to access the gateway, than decrypt the packets and steal the information.

Seriously, you have got him on a redirect, but you go and scan his ports??? Instead of implanting a trojan..............

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

What I hate is when legitimate software you pay for comes bundled with extra crap. I know this one person that downloaded a "free" version of something, had no problems. Another person purchased the software cd for the exact same product from a store and had problems with their computer after that.
also, most people don't even know how to encrypt a wireless set-up. I'm just glad for my INTP ability to figure out stuff randomly through good searches/a bit of luck. I would be horrible with computers without that.

 

[Cogwulf]

What is the value of information? The software industry works differently to normal industry, for any other product, you make X units of product and you make Y profit on each unit. In the software unit, the only actually cost of making each unit is either the tiny cost of producing a CD and packaging, or the minuscule cost of a server to distribute electronic copies. Software is given a price dependant on the cost of the products development and an estimation of how many will be sold.
For example, professional business software can be priced at thousands of pounds even if it cost no more to develop than a low budget console game, because the market is simply so small and specialised that prices have to be incredibly high for the company to make any money. Sometimes software is even developed to order for a single company.
At the middle of the market you have software such as 3D modelling prgrams and things like AutoCAD, these sort of programs have much wider markets, but still don't sell in the same numbers as video games do, so have prices in the region of a few hundred pound, but this is still too high for most home users, so these sort of programs become quite heavily pirated. The developers tolerate this because they know most businesses would never even dream of using pirated software, so they know that the backbone of their business is secure. Some people would suggest that they lower the price of the software to appeal to the home users who are currently using pirated programs, but most don't because they fear that people would still not buy the software even if they could afford the price.
Then you get down to things like computer games and such, where prices are relatively low, but piracy is very high. I put this down to the fact that the people who run the companies who produce this sort of software having their heads too far up their own arses to be able to see piracy as a market force rather than as an enemy. Prices are still too high, I've never downloaded a pirated computer game, but I've never paid the full price that the publishers ask for. I always wait a couple of months and then buy for half the release price over the internet.
And a lot of people only pirate software to avoid the measures that developers have implemented to prevent pirating, ironically.

Also I fail to see the connection between pirated software and malicious software, other than coincidental connections. Of course it is possible to incorporate a malicious code into pirated software, but most of the time it simply isn't worth the effort because there are millions of stupid people without virus protection who will click any link you send them in an email.

 

[Jesin]

Hmm. I wonder if I should mention that the guy who made this thread was banned several months ago for putting anyone who disagreed with him on his ignore list, and generally being a nuisance/troll.

 

[Cogwulf]

I've seen some of his other posts and they do seem a bit trollish

 

[walfin]

In my country there's free wireless Internet at every public library, making this wiretapping thing a moot point. That said, I would imagine that most of the people who don't secure their networks are just typical computer n00bs.

And of course, the virus problems related to pirated software can easily be resolved by using illegal serials for trial software.

The current laws are inadequate. As mentioned previously in this thread, describing software piracy as theft is a crummy analogy (considering that most jurisdictions define theft as illegal "movement", not "copying", of property with intention to appropriate/deprive). Describing it as a breach of copyright in the same way that copyright is held by the author of a book isn't quite right as well (a novel can't be run in the same way as computer software can; an instruction manual could be followed, but it's not followed automatically and mechanically). There needs to be some way to ensure that programmers get remunerated, but the current usage restriction regime leaves much to be desired.

Hmm. I wonder if I should mention that the guy who made this thread was banned several months ago for putting anyone who disagreed with him on his ignore list, and generally being a nuisance/troll.

If you were attacking his POV, this would be an ad hominem.

Since you're not making any arguments, I guess it's harmless.

 

[Claverhouse]

The Flowers in Spring, The Robins that Sing...

YouTube- "The best Things In Life Are Free"- INK SPOTS




Claverhouse

 

[Atriamax]

I will always be a pirate or find a way around paying. I know Im not hurting any corporation, especially the big ones, and i know theres plenty of people actually buying it so support it. I have a mac so i dont need to worry about viruses. The dumb pirates are the ones that are going to end up paying for it, you just got to stay smart.

 

[walfin]

I have a mac so i dont need to worry about viruses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Macintosh_viruses

That said it's somewhat disturbing when people argue about things which can potentially affect the economy if they happen on the large scale from a purely egotistic perspective. Makes me think of the tragedy of the commons.

 

[Madoness]

As with many things... If there weren't 'pirates', companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. would not be where they are now. And by that I mean, they would still have a long way to go to get to where they are now. It is not about that if we use some programs, we should all pay for them to support companies. Programs, OS's would not have this much users as they do now, if we catch these 'pirates'. There would be a lot less users, not so much more profit, a lot less computers sold, therefore the higher the cost of new ones and less need to improve technology. If computers would cost more, the less buyers, therefore less users. The less users the higher the costs of OS's and programs to get to profit side. Microsoft would not be so well known, the same goes for other companies if there weren't these 'pirates' .

Or we should all start to use linux.