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No more patience for your emotional bs

Grayman

Team Ignorant
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#1
As I have gotten older I have learned to accept that people need to make decisions for purely emotional reasons in order to function. Still I have my limit to what I can accept and eventually I cannot help but remain skeptical that their behaviour is rather unnessary wast of time, illusions, self deception, and in more extreme cases I see them as encouraging and enabling destructive emotions by continually validating them via their actions and obsessive thoughts. For me it is simply a matter of finding something more constructive and realistic to do and think about training my mind to learn priorities and utility over bs that drags you down long term. What is the best way to deal with this? How can I pretend their emotions are valid when I won't even acknowledge my own. What is the point of making your world view fit the narrative of your emotions instead of just acknowledging emotional reactions to actual events and moving on instead of making them into things they are not? They even go so far as to feel pride in emotional behaviour as if following your whims aka heart and feels makes you a better and more genuine human being when in reality they are being whimsical animals instead rational human beings capable of foward thinking and our unique ability to make decisions counter to what our biology tries to dictate we do. To value reason above all else.

But then I wonder if the problem is me being that I am seemingly alone in this compared to those around me.
 

BurnedOut

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#2
You can't help but stare at them in their faces or piss them off and be sequestered. I prefer the latter. It's quite normal. In order to live the <b> happy social </b> you have to fake a great deal of being happy in the first place and then get caught in the chains of seeming attractive. Don't worry lad, I'm in your boat. Together we will isolate ourselves and die alone like the optimists!

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Tapatalk
 

The Grey Man

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#3
Preach, brother.

...

I don't know what this thread is for, so I'm assuming it's a place for you to express yourself and be validated. Rest assured, I feel- oops, I think the same way. Many people in individualistic societies think that they are at their best when governed by their appetites per se. But proper government is by the principles of duty, of which appetites can be but an accidental implementer, otherwise there would be no difference between right and wrong actions. But what are these principles? Are there any?
 
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#4
Emotions are simply unconscious logic. Just like normal logic if done poorly it can be wrong.

I won't make a thread titled "No more patience for your bs logic" though.
 
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#6
That sounded clever. Does it mean anything?
Yes it actually does. Emotions are responses to things/stimulus, the reasons the responses are chosen are related to a highly complex compilation of past experiences.

If we had a complete understanding of someones life and experiences and a super "Super" computer you could theoretically predict how someone is going to react exactly. This is because based on those past experiences and events/brain chemistry the individual person is reacting logically.

Basically, if someone finds you creepy and unsettling for example. That's an emotional reaction, but it's also not an illogical reaction depending on context. They may have met people in the past like you who were creepy, seen other people describe people similar to you as creepy. And a million other data points that all lead to the emotional instinctual conclusion that you are creepy.

Now you might say they are being emotional and should logically examine why or why you are not creepy, or their emotional/instinctual tell might be off for some reason/a lack of information about you they don't have. But that's exactly in the same way someone might come to a logical miscalculation based on missing information.

In other words emotion is complicated misunderstood logic, and just like normal logic can be wrong and right so it shouldn't be dismissed but it should be examined. The same as you should examine logical arguments.
 

Serac

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#7
Yes it actually does. Emotions are responses to things/stimulus, the reasons the responses are chosen are related to a highly complex compilation of past experiences.

If we had a complete understanding of someones life and experiences and a super "Super" computer you could theoretically predict how someone is going to react exactly. This is because based on those past experiences and events/brain chemistry the individual person is reacting logically.

Basically, if someone finds you creepy and unsettling for example. That's an emotional reaction, but it's also not an illogical reaction depending on context. They may have met people in the past like you who were creepy, seen other people describe people similar to you as creepy. And a million other data points that all lead to the emotional instinctual conclusion that you are creepy.

Now you might say they are being emotional and should logically examine why or why you are not creepy, or their emotional/instinctual tell might be off for some reason/a lack of information about you they don't have. But that's exactly in the same way someone might come to a logical miscalculation based on missing information.

In other words emotion is complicated misunderstood logic, and just like normal logic can be wrong and right so it shouldn't be dismissed but it should be examined. The same as you should examine logical arguments.
There are situations where intuition, as opposed to a rational thought process, arrives at useful conclusions. But you seem to say that simply because you can predict what either process results in, they are interchangeable. When it comes to actions one carries out in life, that's a useless proposition. For example, every human is wired, to some extent, to be racist, i.e. have a preference for their own race. So if I am black and talk to a white person, my limbic animal brain might judge that person in possibly negative ways. But if you act according to rationally deduced principles and values, you might remind yourself that this instinct is something that should give way to the rational values. I believe this is what OP is about. Whether you can come up with a taxonomy of decision processes where emotions and rationality are equivalent is a whole different discussion.
 

QuickTwist

Alive - Born Anew
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#9
There are situations where intuition, as opposed to a rational thought process, arrives at useful conclusions. But you seem to say that simply because you can predict what either process results in, they are interchangeable. When it comes to actions one carries out in life, that's a useless proposition. For example, every human is wired, to some extent, to be racist, i.e. have a preference for their own race. So if I am black and talk to a white person, my limbic animal brain might judge that person in possibly negative ways. But if you act according to rationally deduced principles and values, you might remind yourself that this instinct is something that should give way to the rational values. I believe this is what OP is about. Whether you can come up with a taxonomy of decision processes where emotions and rationality are equivalent is a whole different discussion.
There are a lot of things that influence someone's emotions, not just their exeriencial circumstance. Some things are a priori, just as some things are learned. Just as there are persons who have mental illness that are caused by circumstance, some people are going to develop a mental illness regardless of what circumstances are in their life because of genetics. Genetics plays a huge part of our emotional landscape. So too do environmental factors like lead to name an example.

We know ourselves best, and even though that may be the case, sometimes we do not know why we are experiencing the emotions we are at a given time. Some people can in fact predict how people are going to feel in a given situation, but I would say they are probably far from a 100% success rate because this process is largely intuitive. Some people can observe behaviors and thought processes more consciously, but again still, they will not have a 100% success rate.

In conclusion, if there were an all knowing God, he would certainly know what makes us tick and could predict what we do behaviorally as well as our emotional reactions to things. From this point of view, what our emotions are make complete sense. So while we may have trouble with people getting over emotional, we have to understand that there are reasons for people having the emotions that they do. What's more is that people have a universal right to experience the emotions they have, tho their behavior is something that might be called into question. What we do with our emotions is based on what we have learned. That much I can agree with. But some people are and will remain uneducated and unknown to how to keep their emotions in check. All I am trying to say is that you should not blame them for having the emotional reaction that they have because there is actually a perfectly logical explanation for them, if you know enough information about them.
 
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#10
A reason to be angry has no bearing on the reality that the anger is seeing. I could be angry my girlfriend cheated on me because a friend told me so that was a complete lie. You need the experience to judge your own and others emotion by the perception of where they came from and then see if these perceptions match reality. Emotional BS mean not giving a fuck and going with your emotions with no checks and balances. (Jersey Shore anyone?) The emotions that you can tap into can tell you information but confirming it requires sourcing reality objectively. After you jump away from the snake you can collect the stick that almost bit you and put it in the campfire.
 

higs

My word is my bond. Gold Bond
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#11
Reason is just efficiency at executing tasks, emotions drive you whether you like it or not. Any goal you set yourself including living “rationally” will be value and emotion based. U are animal like the rest of animals, rational human being.

David Hume F the world
 

Grayman

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#12
Emotions are simply unconscious logic. Just like normal logic if done poorly it can be wrong.

I won't make a thread titled "No more patience for your bs logic" though.
Emotions like love are proven to much like chemical addictions. Valuing emotions culturally at the expense of rational thinking is like handing kids cocaine and expecting them to be good functional human beings as adults.


Rationalization does include logic and feeling and is not logic or feeling alone. Feeling as an MBTI thought process is not the same as emotional feeling as I understand it but more of a intuition . I am against biological emotional feelings feel good chemically based feelings dictating our lives over rational thinking and believe such a culture will lead to the destruction of our society.
 
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#16
Kinda difficult to know where you set the boundaries for what, if any, is allowed behavior based on emotions and what is not.

How do you live a more "rational life"? (Usage of the word rational in this context: not governed/ influenced by emotions). What are you supposed to do with your life? Work towards? What are the principles? Why is it rational to spend more time learning priorities and utilities? Is being the ultimate work bee the life of a rational man? What are the values that dictate what you should do?

We all let our lives be dictated by our emotions, it influences who we are friends with, what hobbies we choose, for some their job, who we have sex with, what food we eat and sometimes how much etc.

I don't see why you should try to run from your emotions, I consider it more in terms of taking advantage of how you function in a way that benefits yourself. So, if spending time with a few friends playing videogames and shit gives my biological body joy, that benefits me, even though you could argue rationally I should be studying or making money (again, not sure what the optimal rational life is supposed to be, to me that doesn't automatically make sense if you take into consideration how humans actually tick).

Some feelings can be utilized without detrimental effect to your life, though some slight detrimental effect tends to be tolerated to improve the pleasant feels known as life quality. Like smoking, drinking, eating bad food. Reading a fantasy book would be a pretty benign example of catering to your feels.

Another example would be if you're irritated by people who follow their emotions, that's a feeling that's disadvantageous to you, unless it improves your function, you enjoy feeling irritated and obsess over something that doesn't need concern you (in the instances it don't) or otherwise get some sort of useful reward from it. It's probably much more advantageous to learn to understand why some people are more driven by their emotions.

You could even say it's irrational for you to spend time typing up that post. Wouldn't your time be better spent learning a new language or focusing on "learning priorities and utility"? Then again, it's difficult to know what your argument is exactly, and where you draw the line. Obviously a lot of the things you spend time on, on intpf isn't driven by the rational mind, but rather some need for certain types of emotional outlet.

Unless you think it's rational to follow some feels to improve the vague concept that is life quality. In which case you are acknowledging following some emotional whims can be rational. And if it is, you didn't do a good job of communicate that. But then it's an argument of where to draw the line. And I think most people agree extreme and destructive emotions are bad, but that doesn't make them go away. For instance, if you were abused as a child, you might have pretty strong emotions as an adult that makes you do desperate things like drinking or self harm. These types of experiences tend to get stuck in a person, because that's how we tend to function. It's not as much choosing to cater to your feelings, as trying to block an incoming boulder with your hands. In some cases you can learn how to redirect the boulder, which is quite the complicated art and might take years to fully or partially do.

It's not really the matter of being born the superior rational person, it's more of a lottery of what you experience and how your body and brain function and process those experiences + how you are taught to process emotions. And stuff like that. Some people detach and think that means they are in control of their feelings. Some people are never taught to process their emotions from their parents and might "overreact" to small things as adults. You put boundaries and expect better from them in some cases, but it's also limited how much you can blame them for being a product of neglectful parents. It's important to separate blame and irritation, with allowing, though. Just because you understand something and don't necessarily blame someone, you shouldn't allow yourself or others to be treated badly etc.
 
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