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MMPI-2 test, validity and methodology discussion

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#1
Info: thread refers to the test here.

Hmmmm suspicious -.-
Usually you can't find this kind of tests free online. It has to be reviewed manually in two scales and a program is needed to get the results on the other 3. Even then you only get the raw results, interpretation is needed. Also the test is different in every country, lenguage , etc that has been released, for the normative groups of study are different.

This is not a recreative test. These are tools that can be harmful out of context.
And this is the reason therapists and psychiatrists do not diagnose themselves neither their beloved ones.
It's unethical.
Only a prepared person can administrate this test properly. I see so many mistakes, that can lead to a misinterpretation, from the take to the several biases at the moment of interpretation.
Whoever is spreading this method is obviously not a professional on mental health. And is violating the ethical code of our field.
I strongly don't recommend it :/
 
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#2
Re: MMPI-2 test

It was a worthwhile test to do. Interesting questions to ponder.

Basically it said that i'm very unhealthy and need help and it's for real. Particularly the psychopathic deviate (which sounds a lot more scary than it is), schizophrenia (same thing there) and psychasthenia (which seems to be out of use) scales. Paranoia and depression also quite high.

It also told me i have marital distress which is very true except that i'm not married.

Low ego strength and dominance, which may contradict the impression i make here or maybe i overestimate my impact because of paranoia and guilt feelings.

I note that the infrequency (F) score is a measurement of how different and special you are. Let's compete. Mine is 104.
 
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#3
Re: MMPI-2 test

Hmmmm suspicious -.-
Usually you can't find this kind of tests free online. It has to be reviewed manually in two scales and a program is needed to get the results on the other 3. Even then you only get the raw results, interpretation is needed. Also the test is different in every country, lenguage , etc that has been released, for the normative groups of study are different.

This is not a recreative test. These are tools that can be harmful out of context.
And this is the reason therapists and psychiatrists do not diagnose themselves neither their beloved ones.
It's unethical.
Only a prepared person can administrate this test properly. I see so many mistakes, that can lead to a misinterpretation, from the take to the several biases at the moment of interpretation.
Whoever is spreading this method is obviously not a professional on mental health. And is violating the ethical code of our field.
I strogly don't recommend it :/
Oh, don't be a luddite :D Google knows everything.

Actually that same site has a pretty thorough and extensive guide on how to assess validity.

EDIT: Also, let's fight!
 
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#4
Re: MMPI-2 test

It's been a while since the test happened but iirc my lie scale was exactly in the middle indicating I wasn't lying. Suspicious if you ask me... :D

For those who don't know I think (don't quote me) 65+ is the higher than 95% of the population.

A few area's showed up as unusual. The main thing was Hypomania somewhere in the high 70's, while that wasn't my highest "score" a lot of other areas linked to hypomania showed up.

Schizophrenia was 69 so fairly low.

Cynicism was 71 and Amorality was 81. :angel:

Of course my excuse is because I live in a "fantasy world" the questions related to cynicism and amorality were off. :rolleyes:

Apart from that I'm really normal!
 
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#5
Re: MMPI-2 test

OK wathevs
Take cheap versions of serious tests then complaint about how many mental disorders you seem to have or how especial makes you to find you got very odd and distorted scores.


BTW the results you're getting aren't complete.



Oh, don't be a luddite :D Google knows everything.

Actually that same site has a pretty thorough and extensive guide on how to assess validity.

EDIT: Also, let's fight!
Hahahaha
OK :v
....but I don't know what we can fight about, I'm in a relaxed mood :)

BTW the guide of validity you talk about is actually useless, you can't evade the self bias, the self mirror effect :v this is why introspection doesn't work.
 

Seteleechete

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#6
Re: MMPI-2 test

Personally I am just seeking some feedback for self reflection as well as idle amusement by taking the test. I am not asking the test to actually accurately diagnose me. All those mental "disorder" results I got are actually problems(debatable if they should be seen as problems, but according to society they are. I tend to disagree.) I have. Just not to the extent the test makes it seem. It is very much validating my thoughts. I think I have these things(having already analysed it long ago) and then I take a test that tells me your analysis fits with this test. This further strengthens my analysis. And if something pops up I didn't think of before I can reflect over the result and decide if it's accurate or not further strengthening my self perception.

Tl,dr Still a useful test as long as you don't take it too seriously or too strictly. Use it as a guideline in self reflection not a factual resource.

Also I never complained I simply told.
 
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#7
Re: MMPI-2 test

Weeeeee
OK, let's see.
1. First of all I think this test shouldn't be self administrated, it's not designed to be so. So the results you're getting are wrong from the begining. Why? Because of the self bias, the self mirror effect that impossibilities you to get an imparcial view of your personality. (If you're going to say something about the validity guide, it's useless. Also the test itself has a validity scale)
2. The results you're getting are raw and incomplete.
3. So, even if you don't take the results seriously it's still absurd! you still count on what it says! When it's an incomplete, distorted version of the original test. The results are worst than those any recreative test online could give you.

Anyway, after all. If you're gonna take it, which seems inevitable, take it as it is: a chart of incomplete and slightly distorted results, with no interpretation from a professional given yet.

Do you want a real diagnosis? You really think something is going on with you or just want to really know more about you? Go to a proffesional. There is trained personal in hospitals, and you can always appeal to a therapist.
 

Seteleechete

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#8
Re: MMPI-2 test

I analyze what it says knowingly the result is distorted I decide myself what is true or not. It could give me entirely false results and I could still use it because by the simple action of thinking about the results and the questions they pose I learn about myself. I count on what it says only because i can logically explain the results and agree with them. If the results were wrong I would still analyze them and come to a conclusion why/how they were wrong instead.

Now your main claim of impartiality I can agree with but that goes for any personal analysis I make. The solution is not leaving the analysis to a professional but to analyses it together with one so as to get an even deeper understanding. I am occasionally considering doing just that but it doesn't quiet seem to be worth the cost. You said yourself the therapist just writes a conclusion I would be distinctly unhappy with that as I want to know Why more than I want to know what For that I need to learn the workings behind the test and how to interpret them myself even if I don't do it perfectly.

I don't care about the results I care about the questions they pose and implications they make and how I can use them to analyze myself. I hardly care if I am formally considered schizoid or socially alienating by societies standards or not.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=22736 The first post there somewhat accurately summarizes what I think of "Mental disorders" and such diagnoses anyways.
 
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#9
Re: MMPI-2 test

The cost, dear Seteleechete, is risking to aggravate your situation if there´s any latent pathology impplied.
The therapist doesn´t JUST WRITE A CONCLUSION. There are theories and data behind the tests, we´ve studied to give a context to the final report. These kind of tests are tools for our practice. I´m sure you wouldn´t like to play with an scalpel upon your own skin, would you?

Anyway, after all I´m nobody to tell you what to do. So it´s allright if you think that of "mental disorders" .
As a graduated psychologist I could tell you that we, the therapists, are not allowed to medicate, so the treatment we can offer, i think, is much more healthier. Because we are concerned with our clients well being, that´s why not everybody can access the career, and not everybody can finish it. I personally like to think that this is a vocational career, some innate aptitudes are needed :)
 

Seteleechete

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#10
Re: MMPI-2 test

Actually the implication was that you only show the conclusions to me as a patient(in this particular case and that is an assumption made only on what you wrote previously). I am more curious about the underlying data and theories and how they can be applied on me than the results. When it comes to my mental state I very much want to play with the tools. If they burn me that just means I made some progress.

(I have nothing against going to psychologists btw I just don't think it's worth the monetary costs as there is little new they could tell me I haven't already found. But I would only seek feedback and not help as that is all I want, though if someone gives good advice I agree with I am not about to turn it down).
 
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#11
Re: MMPI-2 test

If you want to know more about yourself and also "play with the tools" the best you can do is go to a therapist, not for therapy but for him/her to help you know more about you and about the theories an data behind our job. I think there´s a lot of missinfomation on internet, don´t take your tools from here :v

Also you can go check on bibliography:

Psychoanalysis: Lacan, Klein, Allain Miller, Goldstein, aside Freud of course.
Cognitive- Conductual: Beck, Freeman, Mahoney.
Systemics: Bateson, Andolfi, Bertalanffy,Cirillo.
Conductism: Rivers, Kantor, Bandura.

Here´s some bibliography on testing:
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199828340/obo-9780199828340-0059.xml

Also Chomsky, Zizek out of psychology field.

Go look for the real actual work of these people, not summaries neither extracts or opinions. Go to the library :v if you want to know how the theories and testing in psychology work.
 

Inquisitor

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#12
Re: MMPI-2 test

I gotta agree with emmabobary on this. And she can correct me if I'm wrong here. You guys are nuts for taking this test unsupervised and without guidance. It has the potential to do harm. Secondly, why waste your time with the MMPI-2 when it's clearly designed to assess mental health? Was that really a concern for you before you decided to take it? I hope not.

The test has weight. It's not just an internet curiosity, and if you put any stock in the results whatsoever, at worst you're going to start having doubts about your own mental sanity, and at best, it will be utterly meaningless without the interpretation, but you still may have lingering doubts somewhere in the back of your mind anyway because it's a legitimate psychological assessment tool. Better to just discount the results as gibberish and forget you ever took it.

Secondly, if I were to take another personality test, I think I would start with the 16 PF. In fact, I'm going to look into it, just as a further tool to explore career/job selection. I took the MBTI under the guidance of a career counselor (which isn't saying much, but it's probably a little better than taking it alone), and I plan to take the 16PF with a trained professional. I took a comprehensive suite of psychological tests with a psychologist when I was in my twenties (parents paid for it and it wasn't cheap): the WAIS-IV, Rorschach, Thematic Apperception Test, Personality Assessment Inventory. It was a 3 hour marathon. I was skeptical at first, but the results were very interesting. And I highly recommend it to anyone, who's serious about it. The interpretation was by far the most useful part, extremely insightful stuff. WAIS-IV in particular is a pretty cool IQ test. It doesn't just give a single score, but actually pinpoints different areas of intelligence/ability and percentiles:

Verbal Comprehension
Perceptual Reasoning
Working Memory
Processing Speed

Taking this in combination with the other tests helps to pinpoint any areas of psychological concern, emotional instability and so forth that may influence the IQ score. Thus I maintain that an IQ test without a corresponding set of tests that look for emotional/psychological issues is going to be less than accurate.
 
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#13
Re: MMPI-2 test

See?, tools ≠ toys. It´s hard testing like a psychologist, isn´t it? :cool:
 

Seteleechete

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#14
Re: MMPI-2 test

I am not going shy away from potential information(particularly about myself) because knowing it might harm me. It would go against much of what I stand for. Warnings against taking it only encourages me really. (Though I already took it at the start, so the point it kinda moot for me personally).

Shame too, at this point I would take the test just on principle.
 
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#15
Re: MMPI-2 test

SILLYYYY
if youre gonna harm yourself at least do it right!!
take the test properly and ask the tester to show you the final results!:facepalm:

NO ONE IS HIDING INFORMATION HERE. GO CHECK THE BIBLIOGRAPHY ON TESTING. LEARN ABOUT THE TEST AND THE THEORIES BEHIND.
DONT TAKE A RUBBISH SHITTY TEST ONLINE.
 

Seteleechete

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#16
Re: MMPI-2 test

SILLYYYY
if youre gonna harm yourself at least do it right!!
take the test properly and ask the tester to show you the final results!:facepalm:

NO ONE IS HIDING INFORMATION HERE. GO CHECK THE BIBLIOGRAPHY ON TESTING. LEARN ABOUT THE TEST AND THE THEORIES BEHIND.
DONT TAKE A RUBBISH SHITTY TEST ONLINE.
I WILL DO WHAT I WANT MOM! *slams door and opens laptop to take test*

That takes to much effort, I'll rather just do this somewhat worse version instead, also fun to decipher things myself.
 

Inquisitor

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#18
Re: MMPI-2 test

I am not going shy away from potential information(particularly about myself) because knowing it might harm me. It would go against much of what I stand for. Warnings against taking it only encourages me really. (Though I already took it at the start, so the point it kinda moot for me personally).

Shame too, at this point I would take the test just on principle.
She's not telling you to disregard potential sources of self-knowledge, only that if you don't go about obtaining that knowledge the right way (under the supervision of a trained professional), you're likely to hurt yourself and not even know it until later. These things can be insidious...Spend the cash on an experienced psychologist and do it properly...:rolleyes:
 

Seteleechete

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#19
Re: MMPI-2 test

She's not telling you to disregard potential sources of self-knowledge, only that if you don't go about obtaining that knowledge the right way (under the supervision of a trained professional), you're likely to hurt yourself and not even know it until later. These things can be insidious...Spend the cash on an experienced psychologist and do it properly...:rolleyes:
This implies that the knowledge of an unsupervised test can hurt me while the knowledge of a supervised test won't, as such it can't be the same knowledge and I'd still be missing out by not taking the test alone(anything that can make me doubt is a good thing in my book). If some piece of knowledge I gain insidiously pursues me then it's clearly also something worth thinking about. If some piece of knowledge changes my outlook for the "worse" then that outlook also probably has some logical merit, which is also worth pursuing.

I have nothing to lose by taking the test(the bad one) as in losing I still win because something has affected my worldview which gives me better understanding.
 

Inquisitor

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#20
Re: MMPI-2 test

This implies that the knowledge of an unsupervised test can hurt me while the knowledge of a supervised test won't, as such it can't be the same knowledge and I'd still be missing out by not taking the test alone(anything that can make me doubt is a good thing in my book). If some piece of knowledge I gain insidiously pursues me then it's clearly also something worth thinking about. If some piece of knowledge changes my outlook for the "worse" then that outlook also probably has some logical merit, which is also worth pursuing.

I have nothing to lose by taking the test(the bad one) as in losing I still win because something has affected my worldview which gives me better understanding.
No. By some twisted logic you have convinced yourself that it's a win-win situation, when it is in fact a lose-lose one.

If you take the test alone, and it reports everything is "hunky-dory," you'll be inclined to believe there's not much wrong with you, when there might in fact be a problem. On the other hand, if the results indicate pathology of some kind, you'll start wondering if there is something wrong with you, but there actually may or may not be a problem, and you won't have the context (which only an expert knows), which can make a high score normal or an average score abnormal. Round and round you'll go in your head, but you'll have only doubts and no definitive answers b/c you don't know for sure. These results are not something you're in a position to understand unless you have the proper training or at least some education on the matter.

In short, you have much to lose, and you don't realize it, and this is more dangerous than it looks. Stop being an ass and take the advice of a trained psychologist who's kind enough to give it to you for free! :)
 

Seteleechete

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#21
Re: MMPI-2 test

That might happen if I actually took the results seriously rather than something amusing to think and reflect about. I trust my mind and my conclusions more than I trust some random test. If a test however good or bad makes me change my mind it would have to gain merit independently in my analysis.

Basically I won't agree with the test unless it is actually accurate and I can reach the same conclusion myself without the test by looking if the descriptions fits me or not. I am very good at looking at things impartially even when it comes to myself and all evidence I have observed so far supports that. Granted I can make mistakes and if someone points them out(and I agree) I will simply change my mind.

Actually this test seems to be a great tool in testing impartial thinking, maybe I really should take an official test and compare my analysis with the official one to see how good I am at that. Something for the future maybe.
 
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#22
Re: MMPI-2 test

Harmful?

Given all the content floating around on the internet I find it hard to believe that anyone with the sort of mental disposition that would suffer long-term damage by taking the MMPI wouldn't have already suffered some kind of greater long-term damage just being on the internet in general.

If someone is really going to be damaged by this test, then they shouldn't even be on this website, let alone thousands of other sites where the potential for psychological damage is prevalent.
 
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#23
Re: MMPI-2 test

T_T
Why do I even bother?...

I repeat: Whatevz...
 
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#24
Re: MMPI-2 test

You know, for a psychologist, you are really bad at dealing with people.
 

Yellow

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#25
Re: MMPI-2 test

First, Inquisitor, if you are being serious, I want to congratulate you.

Now to business. You're all right.

These measurements are meant as a collection of raw data to be interpreted by a trained professional in conjunction with one or more interviews and followed up by further measurement to confirm/narrow down results.

Self diagnosis is pretty inaccurate most of the time.

On the otherhand, there is a lot of room for error when these are done by professionals too. You may find this hard to believe, but not all trainings nor trainees are created equal. Nor are all clinics and professionals equal in their due diligence to produce the most objective results.

I don't think these kinds of tests belong shut up in ivory towers. I think that when you hide your measurements and methods from the public, you create an air of mystery and distrust.

People know themselves better than we give them credit for. More than anything, they need help in being honest with themselves and in ironing out discrepancies between how they are and how they want to be. Measurements don't help with that. Measurements are just documentation to support the professional's diagnosis.

So have at it. Play with the test and enjoy. Hypochondriacs gonna hypochond. Skeptics gonna skept. Transparency won't change that.
 

Jennywocky

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#26
Re: MMPI-2 test

On the otherhand, there is a lot of room for error when these are done by professionals too. You may find this hard to believe, but not all trainings nor trainees are created equal. Nor are all clinics and professionals equal in their due diligence to produce the most objective results.
I agree with that as well. It's the reason some people have some real horror stories just with therapists, but it expands to consultants and other similar occupations, besides just type professionals. While many can get a degree or certification, there's variance in terms of skill of practitioner. One benefit of experience is that hopefully a professional has been exposed to (1) many types of cases, so they've learned to recognize patterns and (2) they have more experience in terms of how book knowledge folds into real life application.

I mean, as an example, I'm getting sick of every casual reader online going around telling people what psychological disorder they have based on a 5-10 minute test. Psychological disorders usually result in an inability to function in life, or really make your life a living hell; most people just are suffering some stresses or smaller issues that can be effectively coped with and are not really a disorder per se. It's because most people really haven't exposed to someone with a REAL case of the disorder in question. No RLE, it's all just something they read somewhere and don't really grasp how it manifests.
But of course, none of these rules are foolproof, they just better the odds that maybe (just maybe) this stranger you're asking for help knows what they're doing and can provide some kernels of insight.

I don't think these kinds of tests belong shut up in ivory towers. I think that when you hide your measurements and methods from the public, you create an air of mystery and distrust.
While the cynic might view that amount of control as just trying to establish the divinity of a particular profession, I think it probably just comes mainly down to money. If you control the tool and who has access to it (and make their own livelihood dependent on using it), you can sell it for whatever price you desire and produce an income. These folks aren't really ones necessarily doing it for "fun," they're doing it to make a living. So they lock down the product/service like any other company might, so they're the only ones who can provide the service.

... anyway...

Triangulation is the key, really. Look at something from various approaches and see how it might create a consistent intersectional view of the data.
 
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#27
Re: MMPI-2 test

No. By some twisted logic you have convinced yourself that it's a win-win situation, when it is in fact a lose-lose one.

If you take the test alone, and it reports everything is "hunky-dory," you'll be inclined to believe there's not much wrong with you, when there might in fact be a problem. On the other hand, if the results indicate pathology of some kind, you'll start wondering if there is something wrong with you, but there actually may or may not be a problem, and you won't have the context (which only an expert knows), which can make a high score normal or an average score abnormal. Round and round you'll go in your head, but you'll have only doubts and no definitive answers b/c you don't know for sure. These results are not something you're in a position to understand unless you have the proper training or at least some education on the matter.

In short, you have much to lose, and you don't realize it, and this is more dangerous than it looks. Stop being an ass and take the advice of a trained psychologist who's kind enough to give it to you for free! :)
A simple solution: Take it for what it is.
 

Inquisitor

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#28
Re: MMPI-2 test

First, Inquisitor, if you are being serious, I want to congratulate you.

Now to business. You're all right.

These measurements are meant as a collection of raw data to be interpreted by a trained professional in conjunction with one or more interviews and followed up by further measurement to confirm/narrow down results.

Self diagnosis is pretty inaccurate most of the time.

On the otherhand, there is a lot of room for error when these are done by professionals too. You may find this hard to believe, but not all trainings nor trainees are created equal. Nor are all clinics and professionals equal in their due diligence to produce the most objective results.

I don't think these kinds of tests belong shut up in ivory towers. I think that when you hide your measurements and methods from the public, you create an air of mystery and distrust.

People know themselves better than we give them credit for. More than anything, they need help in being honest with themselves and in ironing out discrepancies between how they are and how they want to be. Measurements don't help with that. Measurements are just documentation to support the professional's diagnosis.

So have at it. Play with the test and enjoy. Hypochondriacs gonna hypochond. Skeptics gonna skept. Transparency won't change that.
Not serious. I'm no ISTJ.

Just a matter of principle to me that people don't take tests designed to assess mental health status for shits and giggles. Has nothing to do with "following tradition" or doing things the "accepted" way. The fact that I have been labelled on this forum as ISTJ is simply an indication that many people on here have a very poor understanding of typology and obviously haven't taken the time to do the required reading. And I know some people on here will doubly label me as "not INTP" for sticking so close to the literature (foundational works), but the fact is that everyone on here (with very few exceptions) is a rank typology amateur, and so am I. People think this field can be understood w/o reading these works, but it really can't...It is the major problem with the online typology community. To be clear, I'm not invalidating the subjective impressions of others on this or any website, but I am picking at the false attribution, in many cases, of typological terms to those impressions.

Maybe I overreacted in terms of stating that taking the MMPI could be "harmful" but OTOH, what happens if a hypochondriac does take the test and gets a result that is strongly indicative of some kind of mental illness? If the MMPI were some kind of fun internet quiz, then it's not really an issue. The individual can easily write it off in their minds. But b/c this is an official test that carries weight as a diagnostic tool, it may cause the individual confusion and possibly distress. On the flip side, b/c of the lack of professional guidance, a "normal" result can also be misleading. Bottom line is that it's not a good idea for anyone to "play around" with these things. I agree with you that the tests should be made public, but not for the purposes of self-diagnosis.
 
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#29
Re: MMPI-2 test

On the otherhand, there is a lot of room for error when these are done by professionals too. You may find this hard to believe, but not all trainings nor trainees are created equal. Nor are all clinics and professionals equal in their due diligence to produce the most objective results.

I don't think these kinds of tests belong shut up in ivory towers. I think that when you hide your measurements and methods from the public, you create an air of mystery and distrust.


People know themselves better than we give them credit for. More than anything, they need help in being honest with themselves and in ironing out discrepancies between how they are and how they want to be. Measurements don't help with that. Measurements are just documentation to support the professional's diagnosis.

So have at it. Play with the test and enjoy. Hypochondriacs gonna hypochond. Skeptics gonna skept. Transparency won't change that.
I'll repeat:
1. The test in the link is incomplete in it's scales and the resulsts you get are raw. Besides it's wrong from the take. Therefore whatever it says is not valid.
2. No one is hiding information here! (T_T). Go check the internet if you want, bibliography on the MMPI and go take training to take the test if you want to know all the "secrets". How can you complain if you don't even bother to figure out what kind of test are you taking?
3. I hope you're not serious when you're encouraging "play with the test and enjoy". I mean yes: go play with the light tests online, those that aren't designed to diagnose pathology. And yes don't take the results of this one seriously, or just don't take them in count. But for Freud's sake, don't play with serious tests, don't manipulate unknown data without the due formation, read, learn how testing in psychology works, as you read Jung's theory after taking the MBTI.

This is what you're doing right now:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=__zNi7PNyXg

Edit: what you call "a lot of room for error" doesn't exist, psychology is not a hard science, interpretation of the results is open in the frame of the theories. So the conclusion of one single test taken from diverse approaches will obviously differ. It depends on the purpose of testing, this is why MMPI works in several fields.
 
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#30
Re: MMPI-2 test

It's really very exaggerated and myopic to claim that doing this test without supervision entails getting psychologically injured, though.

What i see is emmabobary being a luddite in her academic field and Inquisitor just being fond of rules overall.
 

Yellow

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#31
Re: MMPI-2 test

I'll repeat:
1. The test in the link is incomplete in it's scales and the resulsts you get are raw. Besides it's wrong from the take. Therefore whatever it says is not valid.
2. No one is hiding information here! (T_T). Go check the internet if you want, bibliography on the MMPI and go take training to take the test if you want to know all the "secrets". How can you complain if you don't even bother to figure out what kind of test are you taking?
3. I hope you're not serious when you're encouraging "play with the test and enjoy". I mean yes: go play with the light tests online, those that aren't designed to diagnose pathology. And yes don't take the results of this one seriously, or just don't take them in count. But for Freud's sake, don't play with serious tests, don't manipulate unknown data without the due formation, read, learn how testing in psychology works, as you read Jung's theory after taking the MBTI.

This is what you're doing right now:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=__zNi7PNyXg

Edit: what you call "a lot of room for error" doesn't exist, psychology is not a hard science, interpretation of the results is open in the frame of the theories. So the conclusion of one single test taken from diverse approaches will obviously differ. It depends on the purpose of testing, this is why MMPI works in several fields.
I'm having a hard time believing that you have ever worked with this measurement (or even observed) in real life, or have had much time working as a therapist. Then again, I can't seem to see any reference to your expertise except in peoples' responses, so maybe they are just being sarcastic, and this isn't your field at all.

In practice, measurements are just your paper trail justifying what you've already concluded. It's not magic. It's not going to hurt anyone to play around with it. You know what does hurt people? Erroneous diagnoses given by "professionals".

Holy fuck balls. Too often, the only difference between an amateur and a professional is the piece of paper on their goddamn wall. No. Worse. I have colleagues/contemporaries who would probably improve without it. At least then, they'd have a chance of realizing that they are dangerous fucktards.

I totally realize that you're probably just a first year student or something, and you're just repeating what you've been taught, but I've been having to deal with a [relevant] mess here at work the last few days, and this was a good vent.

Now that I'm a little calmer, I'm ready to tackle this:
Not serious. I'm no ISTJ.

Just a matter of principle to me that people don't take tests designed to assess mental health status for shits and giggles. Has nothing to do with "following tradition" or doing things the "accepted" way. The fact that I have been labelled on this forum as ISTJ is simply an indication that many people on here have a very poor understanding of typology and obviously haven't taken the time to do the required reading. And I know some people on here will doubly label me as "not INTP" for sticking so close to the literature (foundational works), but the fact is that everyone on here (with very few exceptions) is a rank typology amateur, and so am I. People think this field can be understood w/o reading these works, but it really can't...It is the major problem with the online typology community. To be clear, I'm not invalidating the subjective impressions of others on this or any website, but I am picking at the false attribution, in many cases, of typological terms to those impressions.
Okay, give it up. I know you're trolling.

Personally, I'm not even mad. I'm impressed, and a little relieved, to tell the truth. You've really had us going for the last few months. I don't know about anyone else, but I honestly believed that you were serious with this character.

Are you trying to perfect a persona or something? If so, I have some thoughts. In retrospect, you've been too obvious. If we weren't a generally awkward bunch, I probably would have caught on sooner. It's nothing against your act, but you are trying to stretch too far. Maybe for the next forum, you could try an INFJ who insists that he's an INTJ. Those are almost as frustrating to deal with, but more understandable. You'll get a better reception, and have time to work on the subtlety of the role.
 
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#32
Re: MMPI-2 test

I'm having a hard time believing that you have ever worked with this measurement (or even observed) in real life, or have had much time working as a therapist. Then again, I can't seem to see any reference to your expertise except in peoples' responses, so maybe they are just being sarcastic, and this isn't your field at all.

In practice, measurements are just your paper trail justifying what you've already concluded. It's not magic. It's not going to hurt anyone to play around with it. You know what does hurt people? Erroneous diagnoses given by "professionals".

Holy fuck balls. Too often, the only difference between an amateur and a professional is the piece of paper on their goddamn wall. No. Worse. I have colleagues/contemporaries who would probably improve without it. At least then, they'd have a chance of realizing that they are dangerous fucktards.

I totally realize that you're probably just a first year student or something, and you're just repeating what you've been taught, but I've been having to deal with a [relevant] mess here at work the last few days, and this was a good vent.
I honestly don't care what you think about me. I will ignore your peculiar induction, because it has nothing to do with the trouble itself.

My only interest when I refute your fun with the test is that as you play with it you realize that it's not only a toy. I never said you are not allowed to take it, that'd be absurd!. I encouraged you to do some research on it, to take it with a professional if you want the real results.
You gotta recognise I've got a point here, this version is pretty much useless, you can have fun and share the results, no harm as long as you don't take them seriously, but it's still useless :D plus,
you mocking about the clinic work isn't really relevant, and doesn't add much to the debate. :D

BTW we can begin a debate on the utility of therapy if you like.

I can see perhaps you all took me a bit too seriously. I can be very insulting when I see a mistake. But read my posts again, I'm actually not being that serious.

Now Yellow out of the air, and personally. I don't like your approach, I can see you like to be the one who is right, very bad first impression, you focused more in my tone than in my actual reclaim. Also if you actually accused me of being a first year student, I'd like to know what kind of authority you thought you had to give those interesting statements about tests and the clinic work. Did you even tried therapy?.

Finally in case you didn't read before I just graduated from my career.
 

Yellow

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#33
Re: MMPI-2 test

I honestly don't care what you think about me. I will ignore your peculiar induction, because it has nothing to do with the trouble itself.

My only interest when I refute your fun with the test is that as you play with it you realize that it's not only a toy. I never said you are not allowed to take it, that'd be absurd!. I encouraged you to do some research on it, to take it with a professional if you want the real results.
You gotta recognise I've got a point here, this version is pretty much useless, you can have fun and share the results, no harm as long as you don't take them seriously, but it's still useless :D plus,
you mocking about the clinic work isn't really relevant, and doesn't add much to the debate. :D

BTW we can begin a debate on the utility of therapy if you like.

I can see perhaps you all took me a bit too seriously. I can be very insulting when I see a mistake. But read my posts again, I'm actually not being that serious.

Now Yellow out of the air, and personally. I don't like your approach, I can see you like to be the one who is right, very bad first impression, you focused more in my tone than in my actual reclaim. Also if you actually accused me of being a first year student, I'd like to know what kind of authority you thought you had to give those interesting statements about tests and the clinic work. Did you even tried therapy?.

Finally in case you didn't read before I just graduated from my career.
I have experience in mental health, behavioral health, special education, and addiction treatment.

I think therapy is incredibly valuable. I just don't think we need to be uptight or elitist. I think we need more transparency, more scrutiny, and more evidence-based practices in the field. I think comparing people messing around with a test to toddlers with toys is insulting. Any test is meaningless without context, but you act as if it's some difficult thing to understand.

I think that misunderstandings happen, and this partial test can lead to some confusion for some people, but overall, I love the trend making everyday mental health resources increasingly available to people.

People aren't as dumb as you seem to think.
 
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#34
Re: MMPI-2 test

It's really very exaggerated and myopic to claim that doing this test without supervision entails getting psychologically injured, though.

What i see is emmabobary being a luddite in her academic field and Inquisitor just being fond of rules overall.
Hey! Don't you have sense of humor? :mad:
It's really very exaggerated and myopic to take my post so seriously.
 
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#35
Re: MMPI-2 test

I have experience in mental health, behavioral health, special education, and addiction treatment.

I think therapy is incredibly valuable. I just don't think we need to be uptight or elitist. I think we need more transparency, more scrutiny, and more evidence-based practices in the field. I think comparing people messing around with a test to toddlers with toys is insulting. Any test is meaningless without context, but you act as if it's some difficult thing to understand.

I think that misunderstandings happen, and this partial test can lead to some confusion for some people, but overall, I love the trend making everyday mental health resources increasingly available to people.

People aren't as dumb as you seem to think.
That's the field I'm aiming for my degree! :)
Addiction treatment.
I wasn't trying to be elitist. I was just pointing out that the test in the link is BS :D
I take my profession very seriously, because I'm aiming to work inside a mental institution, with severe disorders.
I agree when you talk about the erroneous diagnoses, and when you say that tools should be more accessible.
It's sad but unscrupulous individuals. exercising this career exist. That's why I think not everyone can exercise our profession, apply the tools we apply. I'm referring to the ethics.
Also it hurts me that you draw away from your colleagues and reject my view.
Anyway, I think that translating the tools to everyone's understanding isn't a joke either.
There was this member... The Habitat Doctor, I remember him saying he used to do his own research to understand and refute what his psychiatrist was doing with him. That's the kind of approach I appreciate!
And I would end up saying that yes, people aren't as dumb as one might think, but that doesn't mean that the consulting has to turn into a playground :D
 

Seteleechete

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#36
Re: MMPI-2 test

Why would calling you ISTJ be ad-homs? Idk about others but I don't use that as an argument to invalidate your arguments(which would be ad-homs). Or as a personal attack either(though I still think you are closer to ISTJ than INTP). Calling you ISTJ is a statement, not necessarily the insult you take it as.

Though I guess there is a gray area in saying "you only support this to stick with the rules/your traditional/appealing to authority" I personally interpreted it as "your only argument is that rules should be followed because and ‘that's how it's done‘ is an argument that I find insufficient".

Then again I don't bother to read anything you write about typology so I might have missed something.
 
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#37
Re: MMPI-2 test

And I'm an ESFP according to some of the eejits on this board, seriously Inquisitor, take a chill pill.

For what it's worth, I'd take advice from the senior membership on this board , sooner than that of those in the psych BUISINESS any day.
 

Inquisitor

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#38
Re: MMPI-2 test

I think you'll find people are giving you a bit of your own medicine, y' know. I think you will also find people are calling you an ISTJ because of your bigoted insistence on upholding external authority, whether it be in form of adherence to written word or appeal to authority and age of specific people. I mean, really - you're rubbing quite a few people wrong, and I'm referring to regular members, did you not expect you wouldn't get any reproach from people? If you showed some more open mindedness when discussing typology instead of holding fast to your experiences/opinions/works you prefer to cite I don't think anybody would suggest you're an ISTJ. I really don't think that anyone has a problem with acknowledging the value of Jung's work. They have a problem with an individual who is treating it like immutable laws and stifling discussion or shutting people down bc of their age or w/e.

I'm not saying this from the position of a moderator, but have you taken a honest look at your behavior and how you conduct yourself, or is your arrogance too great for that? You habitually question and challenge people's types, while taking great offense at your own being questioned, pushing absolute statements like "INTPs are exclusively ecto/mesomorphs" or "INTPs are not into physical exercise" onto people without a hint of humility or desire to discuss when disagreements arise. You just keep brow beating people and claiming you're right because so and so said that or the person questioning you isn't old enough to meet your standards of excellence/authority.

I think Yellow's statement was a semi joke - I think she called you a troll out of an inability to fathom your behavior is for real.

Considering your head is stuck so far up your ass with respect to validity of your views I don't think you're in any place to call anyone hypocritical. Let me put it this way: Why should Yellow be reprimanded for calling you an ISTJ when she isn't the one habitually calling people out on their type? I think you just have a problem with being questioned on something, particularly your type and respond with condescension. Blarraun was right in pointing that out in your reply to Yellow. Need I remind you how you lashed out at Hadoblado who was very patient and reasonable in approaching the topic of your type? Yeah.
It's not my behavior we're talking about here, it's yours. If you're going to reprimand me for X behavior, but not reprimand others for doing the same, you're allowing a double-standard. But maybe you don't think you need to be impartial as a mod? I can accept that, but you should at least admit that you're taking sides.

As for questioning others' types, I have never once done this simply because I don't like someone else's views. But this has been done to me on a more or less regular basis. I invited Hado to witch-hunt me on that thread, and he did not take me up on my offer, nor did anyone else. I don't make personal attacks. I frequently point out to people what Jung/other typology authors wrote if I think they're making questionable interpretations. I conducted a poll on this website concerning who had actually read "Psychological Types" and I believe not a single person had bothered to read the whole thing. I guess you must believe you can have a decent understanding of this field w/o doing the reading. You know my position on this is that that's simply not possible. Seems to me I'm the only regular member of this place that's made a concerted effort to seriously delve into the literature and stick closely to those interpretations. Except for Hado I never "shut anyone down" b/c of their age.

People are free to disagree/ignore my views as Seetelcheete pointed out. I'm open to discussing various interpretations of the functions and how they manifest in real life. But I'm going to stick to the literature and defer to the experts. If you want to label me as "bigoted" for doing that, I guess you and I have different interpretations of what that word actually means...
 

Reluctantly

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#40
not sure why all the commotion. It's probably okay to play with it as long as the test-taker realizes it's a test designed to help direct people to possible psychological problems. Not that they necessarily have any.

I'd say I agree with having a professional administer the test because the test-taker might interpret problems due to lack of knowledge about the theory and application behind the test. But that's only if the professional already knows a great deal about the test-taker on a more personal level and is objective in their assessment of them. Otherwise, a professional would be just as likely to misdiagnose, due to having limited contextual knowledge about the individual or due to projecting their own interpretation of things on the test-taker.
 

Seteleechete

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#41
I don't quiet understand why I should put more stock in a professional test over a random online test:confused:
I'll scrutinize both until I agree or disagree either way.
 

Irukanji

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#42
Taking the test in the presence of a psychologist is influencing the results. Why? Well, you might find them attractive and even though they will tell you to be 100% honest, you can't help but slightly change answer(or in this case, deny it) in an attempt to appease them. You might be in a bad mood, tired, horny, etc and it all changes the results.

In my opinion, these tests should be done alone so there is nobody reading your answers. Then, get the significant results, do some research on them, and then consult a psychologist to get some more specialised testing and avoid the foreplay, so to speak. That way the answers aren't as affected by trivial things, it's only between you and your mouse.

The results might not be what you want, but saying you hate your mother in a test when you are paranoid about the psych telling someone will change all answers even slightly similar to that, hence in private the answers are only ever known by you and never have to be reasoned for. I could go into ways you might think that way about the psychologist, but we'd be here for hours trying to guess your upbringing and bs like that.

My wikipedia knowledge of psychology is enough to talk about the topic and then some with a uni graduate with a few years working as a psycholgist, the human psyche isn't that tricky to figure out if you look at it visually
 
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