Mistyped based on emotion Lojic Feeling and Reason/Rationality

[Sirach2:5]

I have been struggleing with what type I am for the longest time. I am a fence sitter on the F and T personality. I feel the INFJ Personality fit me quite well. However I culdnt get over the fact that the I was an F when when I thought in was a T. I knew the Myers Briggs test was some what innacuate but I couldnt find out where. I was going over my life for the past two days and look at things and have come to a realizition of wher it goes wrong.

when people think of T's they think rational logical thinking cold emotionless hartless....

when they think of F's they think of emotional, dreamers, feelers, irrational head in the clouds, unreasonable....

I have come to the realization the F and the T shows what drives us not our reasoning ability which is what some of the questions would lead us to belive.

Now I thought back when I had cancer a stroke a sizger and any challange in my life I got through it as I was driven by my emotion. I am a reasonable person though as opposed to someone who is a dreamer or is run by their hart.

You can be an F and be very reasonable and you can be a T and be unreasonable/follow their hart or plesure. the T and the F is what fules us and our ambition but it does not define our ability to reason and control our emoions.

For example in my situation the T and the F could come to the sam conclution in different ways.

The F could go chemo doesent feel good and since i dont have much chance to live i am just going to enjoy the time I have left. Or they could go by God I want to live and I am going to give it all i got damn it and do what I have to do.

The T can go since there is not a great chance i am going to live I am going to use what time I have left productively. Or the T can go to give my self the best chance to live I need to do chemo which hurts but I will do what needs to be done.

The F/T does not dfine our ability to reason it defines what drives us i feel the test needs to add a nother letter. What do you think it should be?

 

[StevenM]

The F/T does not dfine our ability to reason

I almost came up with a similar conclusion.

The thing is, (this is my subjective observation), I like to think. I like philosophy. I like math. I like logic, and using it. I like being independent.

But it may come as a big contradiction:

I am definitely INFP.

I think INFP's are weird that way. We are definitely more-so evaluators than rationals. But what we value can range in a huge amount of differences between us. And usually, those values incorporates who we are, and who we want to be.

Some INFP's value nature, and so become environmentalists.
Some INFP's value math, so they become mathematicians.
Some INFP's value being in a death-metal band, so they strive to be in a death-metal band.
Some INFP's value helping others, some value computer programming.
Some INFP's love babies, some don't. Some value puppies, and others not.

And I'd say if we have enough passion for the striving, we can actually become pretty good at whatever we put our mind to.

Problem being, we never finish what we start. Going down the path of mathematics, then halfway there, we get sick and bored of it, and then side track to be a naturalist. Hopping around from subject to subject, and never really sticking to any one thing. (I think that's an Ne thing though) A jack of all trades, but a master of none.

It's kind of like a hobbit, who has a whole library of books he wrote of things that he has learned, and the adventures he's been on, but very few of those books are ever complete.

Maybe a big difference between the INTP and INFP, is that INFP's seem to always ride on to something that could be better. The glass is always half-empty, there is always room for something to change, and make things better. Always striving towards something.

I think INTP's are much more aloof, laid-back, and content. They roll with the punches a lot better, and have much less 'ideal's' of things around them. A glass half-full is just a glass half-full, and really not much need to change. When they notice the INFP struggling because 'ideal's', it's kind of funny to them, and they like to tease and prod. (not that they necessarily mean anyone harm). A lot less sensitive to things than INFP's.

*****

But anyways, my main point is that it seems hard to make certain behavioral tendencies on types. It's confusing when an xNFP becomes intellectual, (because he values this), and an xNTP becomes a youth group worker (because it was rational to do so).

 

[Grayman]

My wife complained that I don't ever tell her how I feel about things.
I said "I just did, I said that going there is a long drive and will cost us a lot of money."

"Yeah but I want to know how you feel about it."

"What do you mean? If bad things will result from it, I am not going to want to do it."

Is this a good example... IDK but it was an interesting discussion, I thought.

But then again she is supposedly Fe.... IDK anymore. Seems like I am delearning MBTI rather than getting more proficient with it.

 

[TheManBeyond]

I said "I just did, I said that going there is a long drive and will cost us a lot of money."

Sounds like a higher placed Te

"What do you mean? If bad things will result from it, I am not going to want to do it."

(Si->Fi->Ne)

You are an xSTJ.

 

[nanook]

@grayman

going there is not worth the bad things that it costs on a practical (money) or physical level (exhaustion). you have to explain why it's not worth that much. the answer to that might reveal Fi or Fe. Ti and Fi are equally inclined to hide their emotional evaluation process from other people, either because they are unaware of it or because it's difficult to express, since Fi is difficult about things, by nature. Fi may care about one thing but also about so much other things and you can't put into language, how it priories. It cares about everything, in principle. It's positive at the root, but the particular thing is never positive enough, to be worthy of standing out in the way Fe types would expect it to. So Fe types describe Fi as negative, as taking away value from objects. It's not accurate. It's more like value is sent towards the object but never seems to fully arrive there in most cases. It certainly won't get lost there, treating the object like it's the only one. But that is what Fe operates like, to Fe the value is right here with the opportunity (object), or it isn't. Black and white. So Fi may try to communicate in a way, that pleases Fe or makes sense to Fe. But such a translation feels like lying.


i generally agree with the OT, typology is about attitude, which directs the interplay of functions towards a certain outcome that is pleasing to the attitude. it's not about whether one likes to spend time playing with a function or whether one prefers to ignore it entirely.

 

[StevenM]

Some more musings of differences between INTP vs INFP.

INFP - I believe the huge driving question, the big ultimate thing that begs pondering is - "Who am I?". Which leads to other questions to try to fulfill that one - "What is my purpose and meaning?".

Looking around, it can be quite disconcerting to know that that person is someone, or I know who he is, and who she is. But again, continually and constantly trying to grasp - "But who am I?"

And then another related question - "Well, who should I be?".

Am I intelligent, and capable, and should I be? Am I, and should I, be a good, or bad person? Should I be caring, or cold and distant?

Can be disorienting in a world where everybody seems to have a sense of who they are, except yourself.

This would make sense as to the sensitive nature of the INFP. When you call one 'stupid', you've gotten really damn close to the very core of the INFP's struggle, their whole architecture that which they timelessly built just to be 'someone'.

********************************

INTP - Again, a huge driving question, the ultimate force of a pondering - "What do I think?" And leading questions "....and how do I think about it?".

I know what he thinks, and I know what she thinks, but that doesn't matter. Again, what do I think, and why do I think that?

-----------

I've ran out of wind for tonight, and I can't write anymore.

But I'm always interested in what other people think.

 

[Grayman]

you have to explain why it's not worth that much.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. It is obvious why so why explain it? If roles were switched I instinctively would know that the phrase means.... "The effort of going there and the money spent is more valuable than value of going to the place."

If my wife says she doesn't like this doctor. I know that the doctor can be really skilled or not skilled but the doctor likely wasn't cheery and pleasant and didn't take the time to answer questions very extensively and make her feel safe about the process." But of course, now I have to listen to a novel on her saying this same thing through a story and expressions on each action and how it bothered her and what didn't. Hearing the story and every detail I can pin point every single mistake the doctor was making and all of it pointing to her not feeling safe and comfortable. I can sense an overall stress from the events.

When I say don't like a doctor, it means "He cannot explain things in a way that is consistent and fits in a logical way that would indicate he is competent." I feel no need to explain why I came to this conclusion and reliving the event would be redundant... obviously. A person should be able to know that a incompetent doctor makes me feel distrustful, worried of what could occur if I had to rely on him, and like I am wasting time being here...that means frustrated fyi.

 

[nanook]

"The effort of going there and the money spent is more valuable than value of going to the place."

i'm not sure how you can say it makes no sense to you, to explain how you come to ascribe a certain value to going to that place.


do you hate or love that place or being there with your partner and why?

you describe your wife as an Fe user. or you perceive her through your own Fe. or is the place like you know stupid.

what place are we talking about, is it that doctor? you may have a thinking judgment about his competence or a feeling judgement about the way he disrespects you and looks down on you and is arrogant and assumes that you are a hypochondriac, or you may have an intuition about how he is lying to you, but you can't blame it on the petrol prices, if he is not worth the visit. are you hiding your thoughts about him, or your feelings about him?

"I feel no need to explain why I came to this conclusion" ... well, that is a problem. you have to communicate the whole story, that's more important than choosing whether you tell the story from a feeling or thinking point of view, but the value of circumstantial troubles and the value of the object itself have to be discussed.

 

[Grayman]

i'm not sure how you can say it makes no sense to you, to explain how you come to ascribe a certain value to going to that place.

If I'm not going to the place why would I explain tree upon tree upon complex tree of values that interconnect? She knows what I like and don't like. The priority is not what that place has to offer but that it is too far away and cost too much money so that is what is the priority and yet she, like for some reason is putting more value in the place, which I obviously don't value than in the fact that I value a short drive.

... the place was a restaurant.

do you hate or love that place or being there with your partner and why?

None of this. It simply has little value to me. The long drive is the issue as I said originally. I would rather not spend time driving when I can do other things that I value. Why does it have to be along the lines of something outside what I stated it was?

you describe your wife as an Fe user. or you perceive her through your own Fe. or is the place like you know stupid.

I don't know what it means to say this place is stupid. That does nothing to explain why I would dislike the place. I would simply say the food was overcooked or the waiter ignored us and got our order wrong and I wouldn't go back because I cannot be certain that it wouldn't happen again. Stupid doesn't at all define the issue.

She is Fe because she took the test to define her as such. I wouldn't use my own perception as an accurate indicator because the test questions are consistent in separating the types and my perceptions would be an anomaly in comparison to that consistency.

what place are we talking about, is it that doctor? you may have a thinking judgment about his competence or a feeling judgement about the way he disrespects you and looks down on you and is arrogant and assumes that you are a hypochondriac, or you may have an intuition about how he is lying to you, but you can't blame it on the petrol prices, if he is not worth the visit. are you hiding your thoughts about him, or your feelings about him?

I wouldn't care about his judgments as long as he is capable of putting them aside long enough to actually address the issue. I just want the issue resolved. If he is not competent I would be wasting my time and then have to do it again with someone else and that would be frustrating. Arrogance is blindness and blindness can be dangerous... if he was arrogant but his high confidence was not fully out of line to who he really is then I could deal with it as long as I keep him in check and ensure he still explains things. If he simply states his conclusions as valid without the need to explain them to me, and refuses to or avoids doing it I would deem him arrogant, blind, ignorant, and incompetent.

I am stating the truth as I see it. It wouldn't be to my advantage to do otherwise but subconscious feelings are, it goes without saying, unknown to me. Perhaps you can tell me.

"I feel no need to explain why I came to this conclusion" ... well, that is a problem. you have to communicate the whole story, that's more important than choosing whether you tell the story from a feeling or thinking point of view, but the value of circumstantial troubles and the value of the object itself have to be discussed.

Wife: "How did you like the doctor?"
Me: "He didn't seem to know what he was doing and couldn't explain 'this' to me."

It's all right there. I don't see what else I am supposed to communicate.

 

[nanook]

None of this. It simply has little value to me. The long drive is the issue as I said originally. I would rather not spend time driving when I can do other things that I value. Why does it have to be along the lines of something outside what I stated it was?

you know, if you don't give a fuck about what you are doing objectively (becoming present at this place) and the value of doing so (why, what it is good for) and if you ONLY care about the qualities of the experience in between (riding there, sitting there, sitting here, bad traffic), then that is strongly suggesting that you have a preference of perception over judgement. or you are just hellbent on hiding your judgement from other people.

it has a passive agressive feel to it. "i would like to do something but not this, because riding a car is no fun" it sounds like someone is pretending to be stupid (purely made out of perception).

I would simply say the food was overcooked or the waiter ignored us and got our order wrong

you have just explained why the place is stupid, it's full of incompetent waiters and cooks. to call the whole place stupid is not a definition but a working label. i was just hoping you would get what i mean by it and you did, because you came up with an example for a stupid place.

I wouldn't care about his judgments as long as he is capable of putting them aside long enough to actually address the issue. I just want the issue resolved. If he is not competent I would be wasting my time and then have to do it again with someone else and that would be frustrating. Arrogance is blindness and blindness can be dangerous... if he was arrogant but his high confidence was not fully out of line to who he really is then I could deal with it as long as I keep him in check and ensure he still explains things. If he simply states his conclusions as valid without the need to explain them to me, and refuses to or avoids doing it I would deem him arrogant, blind, ignorant, and incompetent.

all of this is important information for your wife, because there are other explanations for why you would avoid a doctor, such as that you are suicidal or you have lied about being sick. (all hypothentical)

Wife: "How did you like the doctor?"
Me: "He didn't seem to know what he was doing and couldn't explain 'this' to me."

it is all right there, but is not right here:

My wife complained that I don't ever tell her how I feel about things.
I said "I just did, I said that going there is a long drive and will cost us a lot of money."

and you are lying here. i mean it's like willful ignorance.

The long drive is the issue

the issue is, that you don't want to visit someone who is incompetent and can't explain things. or you hate the overcooked food and stupid waiters.

are you enneagram one by any chance? someone so helbent on turning his anger inside, that he must create the story of being in control of things? you are in control of judging the distance of the ride, which is why you are comfortable declaring it to be the issue.

"i am not angry at the doctor, i just don't want to ride a car right now"

yeah, right.

you are uncomfortable about exploring how incompetent the doctor is, because the competence of people is outside of your control, you are vulnerably exposed to a planet full of living idiots and if you allow yourself to feel into this, you will become mighty angry, or afraid.

you try to regulate your emotions, by fixating your mind on things you can control. and it makes you say stupid or ignorant or robotic things, like "long rides are a bad thing, mkay? it's written in the car manual."

 

[nanook]

i should psychoanalyse sirach, not you, he opened this thread. now you have become an experimental animal for the thread. i have no intention of doing this, it's just happening, because it can (and general enthusiasm about analysis)

 

[Grayman]

i should psychoanalyse sirach, not you, he opened this thread. now you have become an experimental animal for the thread. i have no intention of doing this, it's just happening, because it can (and general enthusiasm about analysis)

I am not certain you are feeling guilty for analyzing me or guilty for talking about me when it is about someone else....

We can certainly move this to another thread if you are still interested. Your perception of me is interesting.

 

[Brontosaurie]

hahahahahaaha

@nanook last paragraph

 

[Grayman]

@nanook

...


I am being sincere and it was not a humorous attempt at invalidating your perceptions. I would like to explore this more.

I would also like to apologize for my irritation and the way I spoke to to you about "assuming it was anything but what I stated." It was like reliving the same irritation with my wife. It could have been percieved that I talked to you like you were stupid or ignorant but if you did not have the proper information the fault lies upon me.

 

[nanook]

i appreciate that you reach out for my views with curiosity. and i don't mind straying off the topic of the thread. i just wanted to assure you, that i'm not stalking you for a reason. and just now i was not ignoring you for a reason, i was just procastinating due to the complication of the situation. you were asking me about the enneagram and i can't reply, since your profile wall is disabled. i can't perceive you well enough to help you with 5 vs 1 and i am just an enneagram beginner myself, so i'm not sure what to say to that. that is a frustrating conclusion which i would rather procrastinate. i wasn't offended by what you said either. i know that i was irritating you in just that way and i was just exploring the nature of the irritation with curiosity. i take the liberty to speculate wildly and i don't expect you to validate all of my perceptions, you have the right to invalidate them, if you feel like, i could handle that without being offended.

 

[Alomoes]

My conclusion is this. Intuition has nothing to do with feelings. If you conceptualize the world in terms of your feelings, that is Fi. Ni is something else entirely. A gut reaction would not be noticeable by an Ni user, because there are no feelings associated with it. :P

However, Fi you can see as clear as bright as day, because there will be a value judgement and a feeling associated with that value judgement. "That's HORRIBLE"

The way I see it is that Ni is the wizard eyes. You'll skip over data in order to reach conclusions, or create new data to fill it. I try to keep everything that I say correct, but sometimes it isn't. I compensate by saying all the numbers and stuff related to things though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lroH-ViZ3ZI

This can be considered bad acting right? I don't know. Value judgments and Ni do not go together for the reason that intuition implies ambiguity.