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Merged: Nobody's insulted in this thread: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehen

Grayman

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver.

If there is a dry piece of wood that has been there for 10years and oxygen is surrounding it, the match is the new and final variable that upset the normal environment of the wood. The are a few causes for the fire but it is the match that is capitalized on.

You have to accept ownership of your part. Attributing a moral violation to your action is unnecessary unless you did it without any regard to thier suffering. Sometimes pain is necessary and in the long run beneficial for the other person but if you inflict pain knowingly for your own benefit then you are likely to be view as committing an ethical violation.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

The perpetrator has nothing to do with it?

You have an interesting way of arguing.

Here is the definition of "perpetrate"

To be responsible for; commit
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perpetrator


The noun you used in your sentence pre-assumes guilt so a response that fails to challenge your wording automatically assumes guilt-- meaning, if I continue to use your word "perpetrator" then we're already falling down a slippery slope.

I'm specifically referring to OP getting his panties up in a bunch for being called a "druggie."

Damn. He got trolled real easily.

I personally smoke weed everyday. Someone calls me a druggie, they can go fuck themselves lol. Call me whatever the fuck you want I don't care.

I think OP is too sensitive. Of course, that's just an opinion. But, fuck it, you probably are a druggie dude. Don't get all offended.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

You have an interesting way of arguing.

Asking a question to encourage you to elaborate? Not that odd, especially given how brief your first statement was.

Now arguing with a dictionary is odd. Declaring someone's meaning outside of his own intention is a sign of avoidance. If someone didn't want to consider your point, he could avoid it by pointing to the dictionary definition of insult that says slander and deprecate, which the roommate is objectively guilty of. But that wasn't what you meant, was it? Obviously, in this case, perpetrator is a label for the other party (to which the act of insulting is attributed).
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

Asking a question to encourage you to elaborate? Not that odd, especially given how brief your first statement was.

Now arguing with a dictionary is odd. Declaring someone's meaning outside of his own intention is a sign of avoidance. If someone didn't want to consider your point, he could avoid it by pointing to the dictionary definition of insult that says slander and deprecate, which the roommate is objectively guilty of. But that wasn't what you meant, was it? Obviously, in this case, perpetrator is a label for the other party (to which the act of insulting is attributed).

what you're doing, responding for another person, is kind of odd, actually.
 

Cherry Cola

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

what you're doing, responding for another person, is kind of odd, actually.

No it isn't, and he wasn't even doing that. He took up on the subject, he didn't respond for BAP.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

what you're doing, responding for another person, is kind of odd, actually.

Nope, I'm speaking in principle to the way you responded. Who the other person was is irrelevant.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

Nope, I'm speaking in principle to the way you responded. Who the other person was is irrelevant.

But we are both questioning his intention, which can only be resolved by BAP. To say his perspective is irrelevant would be ignorant to the meaning in his post. I was talking to him specifically, and addressing his choice of words, which I thought manipulates the conversation.

I did not use the word "victim," as I well could have, but these are just words which are used to stir emotion.
 

Grayman

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

I was talking to him specifically, and addressing his choice of words, which I thought manipulates the conversation.

Most people would just recognize that his word usage is just a reflection of his point of view and reply with their own equally but opposingly biased view.


Simply, he stated it how he understands it. I suggest you argue the content instead of nitpicking his word usage.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

But we are both questioning his intention, which can only be resolved by BAP. To say his perspective is irrelevant would be ignorant to the meaning in his post. I was talking to him specifically, and addressing his choice of words, which I thought manipulates the conversation.

First of all, let's be honest: in this case, we both do know that my interpretation of the meaning is accurate. You're simply being pedantic.

Second, even if it was more ambiguous and we were both wrong about his intention, it would be irrelevant in regard to my response directed at you: the point is that stripping out context and arguing against a dictionary rather than the person is dishonest. This is a general truth independent from any particular subject matter or person.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

First of all, let's be honest: in this case, we both do know that my interpretation of the meaning is accurate. You're simply being pedantic.

Second, even if it was more ambiguous and we were both wrong about his intention, it would be irrelevant in regard to my response directed at you: the point is that stripping out context and arguing against a dictionary rather than the person is dishonest. This is a general truth independent from any particular subject matter or person.

So you weren't being honest up until now? Un-fair, that should be against the rules. I have been honest the whole time, there's no reason to assume otherwise. You, on the other hand, who knows.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

So you weren't being honest up until now?

^ Another example of playing with language to misrepresent someone.

I have been honest the whole time, there's no reason to assume otherwise.

No, you haven't. Your dishonesty is the reason we are having this conversation:

stripping out context and arguing against a dictionary rather than the person is dishonest.
 

Goku

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Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.

Thus, should one be punished for tending to call out the truth?

What kind of society will the extreme bring about...? Maybe one in which nobody speaks out for fear of being punished for what they say?

There's an argument to be had that insults are actually a good thing, objectively, for the victim, regardless of the perpetrator's intention. This is because pain causes growth. Desensitization to the object (or word) that causes pain is beneficial in the long run. Thus, insults serve to free you from the bonds the keep you from fully enjoying life.
 

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

You are fond of unsubstantiated claims.

You also suffer from severe facial deformities and halitosis.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

^ Another example of playing with language to misrepresent someone.
[...]

analyzing (your) language

people who say "let's be honest" are generally liars

at least this has been my observation in real life; there are the percentages of time where it is just said as a customary figure of speech... yet, this is the internet and I assume you're an INTP and aren't for small talk or useless figures of speech.

You have to wonder why someone would all of a sudden interject with "let's be honest" instead of just making the point that the occasion necessitated.
 

redbaron

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

Please stop existing you idiot. If you keep posting my IQ will drop so far, I won't even be able to purchase a gun.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

You are fond of unsubstantiated claims.

You also suffer from severe facial deformities and halitosis.

I would require your personal definition of unsubstantiated in order to give your post a serious response.
 

Grayman

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

No, you haven't. Your dishonesty is the reason we are having this conversation:

I believe he is stating and arguing it as he sees it to be true. It bothers him that BAP indicated that the debate was already decided when he used the phrasing he did. I would not say that he should or should not be bothered for that is up to him to feel as he wishes. I would say that to be bothered and argue over this will not benefit the argument in a practical way. As has been diminstrated by this most recent occurance, such things could only serve to misdirect the conversation leading us to no compramising answer. Let us finally be practical and move on from this instead of further causing more insulting behavior such as possible false accusations or judgments.
 

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pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

I believe he is stating and arguing it as he sees it to be true.

He is using word play and literal sarcasm, a favorite form of humor among intps. The problem is that he's crossed the boundary of humor and is using it as a source for strawman arguments.

His most recent post is another example of this: Clearly, the "so you weren't being honest until now" remark was a sarcastic comment on a possible interpretation of the phrase "let's be honest", but here he is pretending it was an actual insight into the psyche of people who use certain speech patterns.


As has been diminstrated by this most recent occurance, such things could only serve to misdirect the conversation leading us to no compramising answer.

Calling him out on these distraction tactics serves to counteract the misdirection, not add to it. Ultimately it's up to him whether he wants to elaborate on his original point or if he only wants to nitpick about language.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?


I think you would make a splendid librarian. Give me some time to peruse these threads...
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

He is using word play and literal sarcasm, a favorite form of humor among intps. The problem is that he's crossed the boundary of humor and is using it as a source for strawman arguments.

His most recent post is another example of this: Clearly, the "so you weren't being honest until now" remark was a sarcastic comment on a possible interpretation of the phrase "let's be honest", but here he is pretending it was an actual insight into the psyche of people who use certain speech patterns.




Calling him out on these distraction tactics serves to counteract the misdirection, not add to it. Ultimately it's up to him whether he wants to elaborate on his original point or if he only wants to nitpick about language.

you made me literally LOL when you said that

can you please point out, with the exact post #, at what point in time I crossed this imaginary boundary that only exists in your mind?
 

QuickTwist

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

@Goku, I think your taking things a little too personally. Don't take people seriously and just chill, or is that chillax :confused: either way.

[Edit] I sometimes have thoughts that I can't 'hang' with these people because they are intelligent and most come from polished families but then I think I don't owe these people anything so it doesn't matter too much if I feel outclassed.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

you made me literally LOL when you said that

can you please point out, with the exact post #, at what point in time I crossed this imaginary boundary that only exists in your mind?

people who say "LOL" are generally liars
 

Latte

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

Regarding the proposition [Insults ---> Gradually getting over oneself and specifically the aspect of oneself others wish to point out as if it is shameful]

When one looks at the reality of things, they are much more messy than that. Whether insults can have a net benefit in the long run depend very much on the specific case and also what happens in the future after the insult.

In many cases it can cause people to get more entrenched in what they were insulted about, whether it is a reflexive oppositional strengthening of a belief in that they shouldn't feel ashamed of it or internalizing the insult and developing a negative self-image or some other process leading to self-destructiveness.

Your post is a kind of all-or-nothing in regards to whether insults are good or bad. Insult is a category of interaction tools. They can be used in various ways with various effects and aren't inherently bad or inherently good for a person to recieve or give, and people in general recognize that to some extent.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

@Goku, I think your taking things a little too personally. Don't take people seriously and just chill, or is that chillax :confused: either way.

[Edit] I sometimes have thoughts that I can't 'hang' with these people because they are intelligent and most come from polished families but then I think I don't owe these people anything so it doesn't matter too much if I feel outclassed.

I have been known to be a bit too sensitive at times. Maybe I shouldn't get so bothered by things.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

Regarding the proposition [Insults ---> Gradually getting over oneself and specifically the aspect of oneself others wish to point out as if it is shameful]

When one looks at the reality of things, they are much more messy than that. Whether insults can have a net benefit in the long run depend very much on the specific case and also what happens in the future after the insult.

In many cases it can cause people to get more entrenched in what they were insulted about, whether it is a reflexive oppositional strengthening of a belief in that they shouldn't feel ashamed of it or internalizing the insult and developing a negative self-image or some other process leading to self-destructiveness.

Your post is a kind of all-or-nothing in regards to whether insults are good or bad. Insult is a category of interaction tools. They can be used in various ways with various effects and aren't inherently bad or inherently good for a person to recieve or give, and people in general recognize that to some extent.

you often have to make the counter-argument, in the opposite direction, to show the other party just how crazy their argument also looks.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

people who say "LOL" are generally liars

agreed, this is why I also made sure to use "literally," so that you knew that I was telling the truth.
 

Jennywocky

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.

You fail to account for other possibilities (like being offended that someone knows you SO little that they could come up with such spurious insults).

Expand your imagination, insect.
 
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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.

Thus, should one be punished for tending to call out the truth?

What kind of society will the extreme bring about...? Maybe one in which nobody speaks out for fear of being punished for what they say?

There's an argument to be had that insults are actually a good thing, objectively, for the victim, regardless of the perpetrator's intention. This is because pain causes growth. Desensitization to the object (or word) that causes pain is beneficial in the long run. Thus, insults serve to free you from the bonds the keep you from fully enjoying life.
Actually, I agree with this entirely, you retarded fuckwit.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

You fail to account for other possibilities (like being offended that someone knows you SO little that they could come up with such spurious insults).

Expand your imagination, insect.

Actually, I had considered your point. Your point is encompassed under my "sensitivities" assumption.

Your becoming offended at one's lack of knowledge regarding yourself only hints at lingering residue of narcissism.
 

Grayman

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

Calling him out on these distraction tactics serves to counteract the misdirection, not add to it. Ultimately it's up to him whether he wants to elaborate on his original point or if he only wants to nitpick about language.

I don't see the misdirection ending. I only see you elevating the issue. I know you mean well in helping him understand why his position is inappropriate for the current discussion but your current tactic is not the most efficient.

Goku's first statement was brief and matter of fact without any supportive structure to what he was claiming. "Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver. " -goku

His belief is strong and he is likely an individual who inflicts insults and applies names to individuals without regard to self responsibility to such things. To believe otherwise is to accept guilt of all those he has insulted or hurt.

BAP indicated that one doing this is the perpetrator. I suspect at this point it becomes personal to goku who is suddenly feeling like he is defending himself more than just his statement/position.

You ,in arguing with him, continue to poke at him when he is already upset and defensive and so he continues to put up more walls and strike back. This argument will not go anywhere unless you put down your own defenses and try to understand him instead of prove he is wrong.

Word play for an INTP and an extreme wall of Ti, where humor makes no appearance, is often a wall an INTP puts up to stave off emotion. Such a thing prevents an INTP from seeing the bigger picture of what he is arguing and he can seem to be nitpicking. The only way to bring him out of this is to let him know that you are not intending to attack him and that you are on his side as a person although you disagree with his statement. The only way to do that is to really just argue toward his benefit of simply understanding the situation and the perspectives of the argument instead of forcing him to see your way;

************

Why do you talk like you are an outsider looking in on an INTP? Do you view yourself as INTJ? Your profile indicates INTP but your attitude seems different and I suspect the attraction to this thread was the INTJ in the title. Perhaps I am off base in my assumptions.
 

Goku

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

I don't see the misdirection ending. I only see you elevating the issue. I know you mean well in helping him understand why his position is inappropriate for the current discussion but your current tactic is not the most efficient.

Goku's first statement was brief and matter of fact without any supportive structure to what he was claiming. "Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver. " -goku

His belief is strong and he is likely an individual who inflicts insults and applies names to individuals without regard to self responsibility to such things. To believe otherwise is to accept guilt of all those he has insulted or hurt.

BAP indicated that one doing this is the perpetrator. I suspect at this point it becomes personal to goku who is suddenly feeling like he is defending himself more than just his statement/position.

You ,in arguing with him, continue to poke at him when he is already upset and defensive and so he continues to put up more walls and strike back. This argument will not go anywhere unless you put down your own defenses and try to understand him instead of prove he is wrong.

Word play for an INTP and an extreme wall of Ti, where humor makes no appearance, is often a wall an INTP puts up to stave off emotion. Such a thing prevents an INTP from seeing the bigger picture of what he is arguing and he can seem to be nitpicking. The only way to bring him out of this is to let him know that you are not intending to attack him and that you are on his side as a person although you disagree with his statement. The only way to do that is to really just argue toward his benefit of simply understanding the situation and the perspectives of the argument instead of forcing him to see your way;

************

Why do you talk like you are an outsider looking in on an INTP? Do you view yourself as INTJ? Your profile indicates INTP but your attitude seems different and I suspect the attraction to this thread was the INTJ in the title. Perhaps I am off base in my assumptions.

So, instead of stating my opinion as a generality, I should have said this instead:

I think OP is too sensitive to the word "druggie."
 

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

Actually, I had considered your point. Your point is encompassed under my "sensitivities" assumption. Your becoming offended at one's lack of knowledge regarding yourself only hints at lingering residue of narcissism.

After examining your posting history, I'm not surprised that that's the best retort you could come up with. It's all rather predictable and unextraordinary.
 
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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

I think the blind squirrel has located a nut this time though...
 

Grayman

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

So, instead of stating my opinion as a generality, I should have said this instead:

I think OP is too sensitive to the word "druggie."

It depends how they view the word. Does it mean the pit of mankind who are helpless to a chemical and are surrounded by decay, or does it mean the friends I have at school who are normal human beings and contribute to the world just like any other human being?
 

Grayman

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.

Thus, should one be punished for tending to call out the truth?

What kind of society will the extreme bring about...? Maybe one in which nobody speaks out for fear of being punished for what they say?

There's an argument to be had that insults are actually a good thing, objectively, for the victim, regardless of the perpetrator's intention. This is because pain causes growth. Desensitization to the object (or word) that causes pain is beneficial in the long run. Thus, insults serve to free you from the bonds the keep you from fully enjoying life.

This is true but lacking in the fact that people are people and are likely to ignore your "Truths" if you do not approach them in a reasonable manner. Don't forget that you are fallible and these are the truths as you see them and not necessarily the actual truth. We are all capable of making mistakes. :) What if you insult them with the truth as you see it and then you are wrong? People are still hurt by being called stupid when in fact many of those people may not be stupid. People can be hurt by false statements.
 

Goku

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

After examining your posting history, I'm not surprised that that's the best retort you could come up with. It's all rather predictable and unextraordinary.

It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.
 

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.

i bet you're the kind of guy who always throws what his opponent threw last in Rocks, Paper, Scissors too, aren't you?


... he is kind of cute, though, THD. Can I keep him? Pleeeeeeease?
 

Grayman

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

you often have to make the counter-argument, in the opposite direction, to show the other party just how crazy their argument also looks.

I have had tendencies to communicate in the method you speak of but generally I did it without thought to 'pointing out' how it fits the other side.

I asked myself, if they already understand their side why put in my argument? I did not consider how one sided it made me look. They did not understand that they were supposed to put the small section I painted for them into the larger picture they already understand. Sometimes it is just best to paint the entire picture regardless of redundancy and redundant claims of redundancy from redbaron. Granted, I do post redundancy outside of this example, so he is not completely without validity in his redundant remarks of redundancy.

I think the method you specifically speak of can be insulting but is not needed. There are more Gray methods to pointing out the opposite side while still including theirs to make your point and not make them completely feel invalidated and shut out your opinion. Not that I am very good at it...
 
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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.
You do realize what's going on, right? You dense sack of imbicilic shit. :p
 

Grayman

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.

Ironic? You mean that you think she is lying in order to elevate others perception of her intelligence. I hope you don't really mean that. Historically she has been rather honest and very intelligent without any need to elevate such perceptions. Why do you continue to resort to personal attacks? People who do such things do not stay long. I would not want to see you as one of those. I do enjoy your mind even though I do not find your tactics as very effective to making any of your points.
 

pernoctator

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Re: INTP vs INTJ(Yes, Again)

His belief is strong and he is likely an individual who inflicts insults and applies names to individuals without regard to self responsibility to such things. To believe otherwise is to accept guilt of all those he has insulted or hurt.

You lost me here. I don't know if you're referring to the OP, his roommate, or Goku. Maybe I'm just tired, but this seems quite non sequitur.


BAP indicated that one doing this is the perpetrator. I suspect at this point it becomes personal to goku who is suddenly feeling like he is defending himself more than just his statement/position.

You ,in arguing with him, continue to poke at him when he is already upset and defensive and so he continues to put up more walls and strike back. This argument will not go anywhere unless you put down your own defenses and try to understand him instead of prove he is wrong.

Word play for an INTP and an extreme wall of Ti, where humor makes no appearance, is often a wall an INTP puts up to stave off emotion. Such a thing prevents an INTP from seeing the bigger picture of what he is arguing and he can seem to be nitpicking. The only way to bring him out of this is to let him know that you are not intending to attack him and that you are on his side as a person although you disagree with his statement. The only way to do that is to really just argue toward his benefit of simply understanding the situation and the perspectives of the argument instead of forcing him to see your way;

Really, I think you're reading way too much into Goku's behavior. And mine, for that matter. I see no reason to assume that anyone is overly upset and putting up walls. And you'll notice I never said I agreed or disagreed with anything; I was only commenting on the tactics.


Why do you talk like you are an outsider looking in on an INTP? Do you view yourself as INTJ? Your profile indicates INTP but your attitude seems different and I suspect the attraction to this thread was the INTJ in the title. Perhaps I am off base in my assumptions.

Yes, you are off base. I don't know what about my wording gives the impression of an outsider. Naturally I recognize the literal sarcasm as it's something I engage in myself. My problem is with the way he's passed it off as his opponent's actual views instead of just a joke. Incidentally, I think you'll find that this is also an INTP trait -- to be more concerned with the correct presentation / logical consistency of an argument than the validity of its conclusions.
 

Jennywocky

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

^^:ahh:
 

The Void

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

One should be insulted again and again and again until they rise beyond the cycle.
Humans have turn to comfortable, a little word can destabilize them.
For evolution of society, insult should be encouraged.
People should be insulted so much, that they stop caring, and when everyone stop caring.................peace will occur.
But peace is boring.

Insults should be more shopisticated. Insults should not be done in the intention to hurt others. Sometimes one can be hurt by understanding how one is just trying to hurt oneself without understanding or for nothing but just to hurt oneself. Insulting nullifies one's creativity and abilities. If one only insults on and on the insulted one will always live in a state of suffering, they want ego inflating. Offense should be done with good justification and everything. May be we should have some special training school where pupils will be offended again and again until one's mind become stable enough to withstand anything?
Idc
 

Grayman

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?



So many interpretations to be had from this... but then I know you are such a sweet person it must mean I struck your heart strings so much your face melted in affection.
 

redbaron

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

^^:ahh:
 

Fukyo

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Re: Is insulting another person even a bad or morally reprehensible thing to do?

passive aggressive special Olympics :D

cat-fights-04.jpg
 
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