BigApplePi
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The perpetrator has nothing to do with it?Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver.
The perpetrator has nothing to do with it?Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver.
The perpetrator is the one feeling insulted. And they manage to make it sound like the perceiver's fault.The perpetrator has nothing to do with it?
Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver.
The perpetrator has nothing to do with it?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perpetratorTo be responsible for; commit
You have an interesting way of arguing.
Asking a question to encourage you to elaborate? Not that odd, especially given how brief your first statement was.
Now arguing with a dictionary is odd. Declaring someone's meaning outside of his own intention is a sign of avoidance. If someone didn't want to consider your point, he could avoid it by pointing to the dictionary definition of insult that says slander and deprecate, which the roommate is objectively guilty of. But that wasn't what you meant, was it? Obviously, in this case, perpetrator is a label for the other party (to which the act of insulting is attributed).
what you're doing, responding for another person, is kind of odd, actually.
what you're doing, responding for another person, is kind of odd, actually.
Nope, I'm speaking in principle to the way you responded. Who the other person was is irrelevant.
I was talking to him specifically, and addressing his choice of words, which I thought manipulates the conversation.
But we are both questioning his intention, which can only be resolved by BAP. To say his perspective is irrelevant would be ignorant to the meaning in his post. I was talking to him specifically, and addressing his choice of words, which I thought manipulates the conversation.
First of all, let's be honest: in this case, we both do know that my interpretation of the meaning is accurate. You're simply being pedantic.
Second, even if it was more ambiguous and we were both wrong about his intention, it would be irrelevant in regard to my response directed at you: the point is that stripping out context and arguing against a dictionary rather than the person is dishonest. This is a general truth independent from any particular subject matter or person.
So you weren't being honest up until now?
I have been honest the whole time, there's no reason to assume otherwise.
stripping out context and arguing against a dictionary rather than the person is dishonest.
^ Another example of playing with language to misrepresent someone.
[...]
You are fond of unsubstantiated claims.
You also suffer from severe facial deformities and halitosis.
No, you haven't. Your dishonesty is the reason we are having this conversation:
I believe he is stating and arguing it as he sees it to be true.
As has been diminstrated by this most recent occurance, such things could only serve to misdirect the conversation leading us to no compramising answer.
There are several threads devoted to this topic, just for more background information:
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=17904&highlight=insults
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=18369&highlight=insults
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=17860&highlight=insults
...and an interesting case study on INTPforum:
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=15832&highlight=insults
He is using word play and literal sarcasm, a favorite form of humor among intps. The problem is that he's crossed the boundary of humor and is using it as a source for strawman arguments.
His most recent post is another example of this: Clearly, the "so you weren't being honest until now" remark was a sarcastic comment on a possible interpretation of the phrase "let's be honest", but here he is pretending it was an actual insight into the psyche of people who use certain speech patterns.
Calling him out on these distraction tactics serves to counteract the misdirection, not add to it. Ultimately it's up to him whether he wants to elaborate on his original point or if he only wants to nitpick about language.
you made me literally LOL when you said that
can you please point out, with the exact post #, at what point in time I crossed this imaginary boundary that only exists in your mind?
@Goku, I think your taking things a little too personally. Don't take people seriously and just chill, or is that chillaxeither way.
[Edit] I sometimes have thoughts that I can't 'hang' with these people because they are intelligent and most come from polished families but then I think I don't owe these people anything so it doesn't matter too much if I feel outclassed.
Regarding the proposition [Insults ---> Gradually getting over oneself and specifically the aspect of oneself others wish to point out as if it is shameful]
When one looks at the reality of things, they are much more messy than that. Whether insults can have a net benefit in the long run depend very much on the specific case and also what happens in the future after the insult.
In many cases it can cause people to get more entrenched in what they were insulted about, whether it is a reflexive oppositional strengthening of a belief in that they shouldn't feel ashamed of it or internalizing the insult and developing a negative self-image or some other process leading to self-destructiveness.
Your post is a kind of all-or-nothing in regards to whether insults are good or bad. Insult is a category of interaction tools. They can be used in various ways with various effects and aren't inherently bad or inherently good for a person to recieve or give, and people in general recognize that to some extent.
people who say "LOL" are generally liars
The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.
Actually, I agree with this entirely, you retarded fuckwit.The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.
Thus, should one be punished for tending to call out the truth?
What kind of society will the extreme bring about...? Maybe one in which nobody speaks out for fear of being punished for what they say?
There's an argument to be had that insults are actually a good thing, objectively, for the victim, regardless of the perpetrator's intention. This is because pain causes growth. Desensitization to the object (or word) that causes pain is beneficial in the long run. Thus, insults serve to free you from the bonds the keep you from fully enjoying life.
You fail to account for other possibilities (like being offended that someone knows you SO little that they could come up with such spurious insults).
Expand your imagination, insect.
Calling him out on these distraction tactics serves to counteract the misdirection, not add to it. Ultimately it's up to him whether he wants to elaborate on his original point or if he only wants to nitpick about language.
I don't see the misdirection ending. I only see you elevating the issue. I know you mean well in helping him understand why his position is inappropriate for the current discussion but your current tactic is not the most efficient.
Goku's first statement was brief and matter of fact without any supportive structure to what he was claiming. "Feeling insulted is the fault of the perceiver. " -goku
His belief is strong and he is likely an individual who inflicts insults and applies names to individuals without regard to self responsibility to such things. To believe otherwise is to accept guilt of all those he has insulted or hurt.
BAP indicated that one doing this is the perpetrator. I suspect at this point it becomes personal to goku who is suddenly feeling like he is defending himself more than just his statement/position.
You ,in arguing with him, continue to poke at him when he is already upset and defensive and so he continues to put up more walls and strike back. This argument will not go anywhere unless you put down your own defenses and try to understand him instead of prove he is wrong.
Word play for an INTP and an extreme wall of Ti, where humor makes no appearance, is often a wall an INTP puts up to stave off emotion. Such a thing prevents an INTP from seeing the bigger picture of what he is arguing and he can seem to be nitpicking. The only way to bring him out of this is to let him know that you are not intending to attack him and that you are on his side as a person although you disagree with his statement. The only way to do that is to really just argue toward his benefit of simply understanding the situation and the perspectives of the argument instead of forcing him to see your way;
************
Why do you talk like you are an outsider looking in on an INTP? Do you view yourself as INTJ? Your profile indicates INTP but your attitude seems different and I suspect the attraction to this thread was the INTJ in the title. Perhaps I am off base in my assumptions.
Actually, I had considered your point. Your point is encompassed under my "sensitivities" assumption. Your becoming offended at one's lack of knowledge regarding yourself only hints at lingering residue of narcissism.
So, instead of stating my opinion as a generality, I should have said this instead:
I think OP is too sensitive to the word "druggie."
The more insulted the victim feels, the greater the truth the perpetrator has called upon.
Thus, should one be punished for tending to call out the truth?
What kind of society will the extreme bring about...? Maybe one in which nobody speaks out for fear of being punished for what they say?
There's an argument to be had that insults are actually a good thing, objectively, for the victim, regardless of the perpetrator's intention. This is because pain causes growth. Desensitization to the object (or word) that causes pain is beneficial in the long run. Thus, insults serve to free you from the bonds the keep you from fully enjoying life.
After examining your posting history, I'm not surprised that that's the best retort you could come up with. It's all rather predictable and unextraordinary.
It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.
you often have to make the counter-argument, in the opposite direction, to show the other party just how crazy their argument also looks.
You do realize what's going on, right? You dense sack of imbicilic shit.It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.
It's a bit ironic to be calling something predictable, while doing it in hindsight... I had foreseen that you would do something like that, and allowed you to do it, so I could then call you out for it.
His belief is strong and he is likely an individual who inflicts insults and applies names to individuals without regard to self responsibility to such things. To believe otherwise is to accept guilt of all those he has insulted or hurt.
BAP indicated that one doing this is the perpetrator. I suspect at this point it becomes personal to goku who is suddenly feeling like he is defending himself more than just his statement/position.
You ,in arguing with him, continue to poke at him when he is already upset and defensive and so he continues to put up more walls and strike back. This argument will not go anywhere unless you put down your own defenses and try to understand him instead of prove he is wrong.
Word play for an INTP and an extreme wall of Ti, where humor makes no appearance, is often a wall an INTP puts up to stave off emotion. Such a thing prevents an INTP from seeing the bigger picture of what he is arguing and he can seem to be nitpicking. The only way to bring him out of this is to let him know that you are not intending to attack him and that you are on his side as a person although you disagree with his statement. The only way to do that is to really just argue toward his benefit of simply understanding the situation and the perspectives of the argument instead of forcing him to see your way;
Why do you talk like you are an outsider looking in on an INTP? Do you view yourself as INTJ? Your profile indicates INTP but your attitude seems different and I suspect the attraction to this thread was the INTJ in the title. Perhaps I am off base in my assumptions.