MBTI in relation to Archetype and Enneagram

[Seducer of the Homeless]

right, i consider myself INXP (closer to T) and my Enneagram is 4w5 and Archetype = Creator and a Melancholic

i would consider these to be INFP, but i relate more closely to INTP

some questions...

A) how much does MBTI link with these other personality evaluations?

B) would these alternative evaluations make me INFP or not?

C) what is everyone elses Enneagram, Archetype etc?


'tis all

 

[Anthile]

What archetype do you mean? There are many different tests. Not that we talk about different things.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I'm pretty sure I'm 4w5, too. Full confession: that's what I got the first time I took the test. I didn't think it was right and I took a few more which I think I gamed to get 5w4. Four doesn't fit me at all. Five fits me more. 4w5 I think fits me perfectly- I think this kind of connects with the whole Ne being my dominant function piece.

I read a theory that said INFP was more of a nine, that fours display extraverted feeling, not introverted feeling, so a 4w5 would spend time analyzing their feelings- a somewhat INTP pursuit, as far as I've gathered- while a 4w3 would spend time experiencing their feelings. But that was just one theory I read.

 

[Hawkeye]

when I took the test I got 9 and 4 with equal high scores.

This makes me rare

 

[Ermine]

I'm 5w4 too. As for the INFP question, I've found that I make value judgments all the time, but they are based on reason and experience, and backed up with feelings rather than the other way around. Is that how it is for you? That could easily make you come off as INFP.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

well, 4w5 pretty much up both my glory and my agony in one (kinda freaky)
i always find i am INTP over INFP, but logic just bores me and i can relate to INFP descriptions that are functional not just conjecture (not all INFPs are humanitarian pussies)

i find it impossible to say whether my thinking backs up my feeling or vice/versa, i just can't decide.

 

[Concojones]

I can relate in the sense that I'm INTP and 9, which reflects a substantial F.
Because that F is totally absent in NT profile descriptions, I find them a bit too dry/sterile to describe me. With this limitation in mind, I find the INTP profile quite accurate.

 

[sagewolf]

5w4, and it would really help if you posted some description (read: link) pointing us toward the way you found your archetypes.

I find that I identify with INFP as well as INTP, but I usually find that INTP descriptions describe me better, especially considering that my F functions are developed mainly because I identified with INTP in the first place than went to deliberate trouble to develop my F functions in an effort to correct the deficit. I eventually concluded I was 5w4 rather than 4w5 because while I identify with the emotional aspect of 4, I'm extremely uncomfortable expressing it, even in subtle ways. Instead I exhibit a 5-ish poker face and conceal everything from everyone around me. Which doesn't work very well, but I keep doing it because I'm dumb that way.

As for linkage with MBTI... 4 seems (theoretically) to lean more toward Feeling-types, and 5 toward Thinking, but since all types have both Feeling and Thinking functions, it stands to sense that the link wouldn't be set in stone. It's perfectly plausible that an INTP would be a 4w5, since we have the Fe function, especially if it was unusually strong. My opinion there is to make sure the types you eventually decide describe you actually describe you, not the other types you've picked.

 

[Enne]

I'm a 5, sp/sx subtype. I've never taken the wing test. Is there any significance to the ordering of the other numbers? Neither of the 5 wings, 4 and 6, scored as close to my 5. (My order was 5, 8, 7, 3, 9, 6, 4, 2, 1.)

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

soth, you should check out the new thread I started about different function attitudes. I think it might be enlightening (or make things more confusing).

I think we're in the same boat, kid. If we are, I think we might be INFP with an overdeveloped Ti function. Not to speak for you or anything, but we seem to be going through the same dilemma. Also check out this:

http://www.aesthetic-images.com/ebuie/infp-profile.html

 

[walfin]

Methinks INTP 4w5 isn't so uncommon (have seen several, am one).

An INTP 4w5 would be similar in many ways to, yet markedly distinct from, an INFP 5w4 (if such creatures do exist outside of our imaginations :P).

The Enneagram types do not map to the MBTI types perfectly. I believe the neuroticism dimension, unmeasured in the MBTI, might be partly responsible in determining Enneagram type.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

^^ More often I'm a 5w4 than a 4w5, anyway. But I'm actually a 5 with a 9 wing, followed by the 4 if you go by the sequential order of things. So I'm a thinker who doesn't like to cause trouble and I also see something unique about myself, I guess.

What's it like being an INTP 4w5, walfin?

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

I've got to say, I'm kind of digging the enneagram today. I think it might flesh out some of the nuances the MBTI lacks. Not only is there the type, there is the wing you prefer, and then your instinctual variant- combining all of these together can elicit a fairly tailor-made personality description. I was put off by all of the chakra stuff before and didn't pay much attention to it (I am repelled by most things New Age-y), but now I can see its merit.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

enneagrams i switch between 5w4 and 4w5 but i think my 'true self' is 4w5

that type, the Bohemian fits me very well

still INXP

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

This paragraph from eclecticenergies struck me:

Fives, especially with the Four wing, sometimes mistype themselves as Fours. Such Fives recognize that they have strong emotions and don't identify with the often extremely cerebral portrait of type Five. But, Fives, unlike Fours, always retain some degree of discomfort when it comes to the expression of their emotional states. However much facility they may gain with it, the language of emotion is not their native tongue.

And then this from enneagrambook about the sexual variant, which is what I tested as:

The clash of the sexual variant and the five fixation causes significant intrapsychic conflicts, which gives them a somewhat brittle and delicate outward appearance. These fives yearn for human relationships, but with the fixation holding them back, they can alternate between pursuit of a love interest and defensive withdrawal. However, it is through relationship and works of art that they find channels for self-expression. They long to share their internal world, which they guard with care until they feel there’s someone who can understand them. They can become emotionally obsessed, holding the love interest as the only source of their connection with the external world, yet also fear their autonomy be compromised by it.

Pretty much me, all up in the hizzouse.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Hey soth, I finally took an archetype test: http://avidtran.tripod.com/archetype.html

Is this the one you took?

I got Sage: Sages find freedom through understanding the big picture (global or cosmic) and a capacity for detachment. At the lowest level, the Sage may have little interest in the ordinary, mundane pleasures of life. At the highest level, however, the Sage combines detachment with love, wisdom, and joy in life.

 

[cheese]

An INTP 4w5 would be similar in many ways to, yet markedly distinct from, an INFP 5w4 (if such creatures do exist outside of our imaginations :P).

I have an INFP friend who is remarkably similar to me.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

yeah, same test...



Creator

When the Creator is active within a person, that person is discovering or creating a more adequate sense of Self. At best, this new identity leads to a more fulfilling and effective life. At worst, it is simply an experiment, and the person retreats or goes back to the drawing board to start over.

describes me awfully well....
http://pinkmanhattan.blogspot.com/2009/03/enneagram-4w5-bohemian.html

and i did socionics and got IEI (the Romantic, Lyricist) and the description is quite accurate and sound INFJ-ish

so i am either...
a confused INTP
a 'dark' uncaring INFP
a disorganized INFJ
an introverted ENTP

hmm....

 

[hope]

Thinker/Artist/Peacemaker

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Creator

When the Creator is active within a person, that person is discovering or creating a more adequate sense of Self. At best, this new identity leads to a more fulfilling and effective life. At worst, it is simply an experiment, and the person retreats or goes back to the drawing board to start over.

describes me awfully well....
http://pinkmanhattan.blogspot.com/2009/03/enneagram-4w5-bohemian.html

Yeah, I'd say both/all of those things used to/ maybe still describe me awfully well. That's what's so confusing. But I also think I've transformed quite a bit in the last few years. I've let go of a lot of my youthful ideology and grown up a bit, guess you could say.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

same here

i barely recognize me (internally) from a couple of years ago (and notice vast differences in my intelligence and personality in the last months)

also, i look back on schoolwork i did and think "jesus, what an idiot i was" and "what the hell was i thinking", even schoolwork from just a couple of weeks ago i think this

right now, i wouldn't say it was impossible for me to be ISFP

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

right now, i wouldn't say it was impossible for me to be ISFP

I'm kind of doubting it, you seem to be too into theories and abstract ideas. But why do you think that?

I would say, for one, you are 15, so your personality isn't completely developed. For two, Ne seems to be extremely dominant in you. It's what makes you create. It's what makes you open to all of these possibilities of what you are and what you could be and what the world is and what it could be. It's what makes you so changeable, inconstant, mercurial.

I can relate to at least eight of the sixteen personality types, depending on different times in my life. When I was in high school I was all about art and creating and having a distinctive self-identity. Math and Science were for the lesser beings who didn't get The Truth. When I was in college I started to become more interested in snowboarding and rock climbing and drinking- basically anything sensory. Now I am more about logic and even sort of interested in math.

A person with highly developed Ne can become quite skilled in a lot of various pursuits, especially a person who is also intelligent. I consider you one of these people, soth. With Ne you take in a lot, and it is going to affect who you are. It should- this is called living. Don't limit yourself to what it says your type or enneagram number or archetype is interested in. Do and be all. Transcend.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

thank you brain, yet again

(Intelligent?! )

anyway, i would definately (thinking about it) Ne was very strong and the only constant

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

(Intelligent?! )

Face the fact: yes, you are.

 

[dwags222]

i thought i was 4w5 for a long time. but eventually i realized i was actually a 5w4. to be honest the two are pretty close in some ways, but i kind of find it hard to believe that an intp could be a 4w5 even though i used to think i was one. looking back now, it is easy to see i was not a 4w5, even though i can still relate closely to the 4w5 menatality.

 

[Liontiger]

I just took a few tests and I'm a 4w5 with a high 9 score. In some cases, I turned out 5w4 with a higher 9 than 4, so I think those three are somewhat interchangeable. Many INFPs are 4w5, but I don't really feel like an INFP. My Fi is considerably weak. The 9 makes sense, though, because I value harmony in my environment and strive to maintain it.

 

[walfin]

My hypothesis is that 4w5 people are closer to INXP. (Or socionics INTp) I feel rather INFP at times though I always test as a strong T.

I tend to feel a strong sense of self. Unlike liontiger I've always tested 4w5. Without fail. (sp/sx/so, in case anyone wants to know).

According to 4w5 descriptions we are supposed to be rather romantic types, prone to envy (our weakness), afraid of shame, and especially want to be unique (while 5w4s desire more to be competent). 4w5 actually have more "under the surface" emotions than 5w4s (who seem more typical INTP, with Fe and not Fi). I used to think I'd rather be a 5w4 since the 4w5 description seems so much more egotistical (like, must be unique? wtf?), but I guess type is just that way.

I am rather a romantic. In more ways than one. Wish it weren't so, but... *wistfully looks in the distance*. It feels very weird, because I'll lose myself in emotion (which is generally not expressed to anyone else) but I'll be thinking at the same time, hmm...were those my dopamine receptors at work? What caused that feeling?

INTP 4w5s are relatively rare, and most would have their lower cognitive functions out of order (only would have Ti Ne in common with other INTPs, but probably not Si and Fe in that order). Probably more neurotic than many INTPs too.

 

[Enne]

Hmm.. Opinion: Is it possible for an ENFP to be a 5?

 

[Anthile]

In theory, every combination is possible. Some are just very unlikely. For example, the chance to find a P-type who is also enneagram type one is close to zero.

 

[Enne]

Hmm... on second thought an ENFP exhibiting 5ish (superficial) behavior could just be a healthy 7.

 

[walfin]

Now I think about it, I suppose true enneagram type could also be derived from self-observation of behaviours under stress and when relaxed.

 

[zephryi]

Damn... On the topic of MBTI types relating to Enneagram types, one book I had checked out before had a chart comparing the results of MBTI and Enneagram tests taken by a group of college students, finding which axis correlated most strongly to which enneagram types... I'll have to get that out tomorrow. However, if it's of any interest, in a poll I remember looking at... I think it was on INTP central, or an INTP section of a general MBTI board... had most INTPs clustered around 5w4, the second highest at 4w5, then I think a decent accumulation with 5w6 while the rest were pretty scattered around. Unfortunantly I don't remember where that was. @____@

Now I think about it, I suppose true enneagram type could also be derived from self-observation of behaviours under stress and when relaxed.

This is actually a part of Ennagram theory; there's different patterns of movement around the enneagram for healthy and unhealthy behavior of each type. But I don't remember the entire part of that bit of theory as the new age aspects put me off. I'll try to look it up, perhaps...

And to throw in a bit of data, I consistently get 5w4 sp/so/sx, received the sage, and am either LII or ILI...

 

[zephryi]

Okay, well, if anyone's interested, here's the correlations gathered based on a study with a small groups of adults who took a number of personality tests at once:

1- Judging
2- Extravert (?), feeling
3- Extravert, sensing, judging
4- Intuitive, feeling, perceiving
5- Introvert, thinking
6- Introvert
7- Extravert, intuitive
8- Extravert (?), intuitive, thinking, perceiving
9- Intuitive, perceiving

I find the different ranges of corresponding axis very odd, like 6 correlates only with introversion, while 8 is practically xNTP... I wonder if that shows that one test or the other is too wide or too narrow in it's type descriptions. : /

 

[LucielaMinerva]

Did the enneagram test and I tied 5 with 8; second test 8 with 5. Read the wings, decided that 5w4 is more my type. I think my bossiness and Alpha female personality is a sham; a desire to be in control because of fear of lack of it. Imbalanced, methinks.

I'm an sp/sx/so, although I don't really know what's that supposed to mean ._."


edit: took another test, had an 8w7. Lol. Also forgot to add that I act like an ENTJ sometimes, lul. So I'm an INTP/ENTP/ENTJ mix. How... confusing.

 

[walfin]

I'm an sp/sx/so, although I don't really know what's that supposed to mean ._."

For the enneagram uninitiated: that means self preservation first, sexual second, social least of all.

Sexual doesn't really mean sexual. Can go read.

edit: took another test, had an 8w7. Lol. Also forgot to add that I act like an ENTJ sometimes, lul. So I'm an INTP/ENTP/ENTJ mix. How... confusing.

For the sake of bread and butter (or rice), we all have to be who we are not sometimes. I'd say that's not uncommon.

 

[LucielaMinerva]

For the enneagram uninitiated: that means self preservation first, sexual second, social least of all.

Sexual doesn't really mean sexual. Can go read.


For the sake of bread and butter (or rice), we all have to be who we are not sometimes. I'd say that's not uncommon.

Yups just read up. I guess you're right. Much of how we act in real life is controlled by our environment so that we do not upset the delicate balance of interpersonal relationships. I think most of my life is a lie and an act; a way to retain self-preservation or non-extinction because if I act 100% of what I am, I would be the first to be eliminated from society. It's funny, isn't it, that most people are that way. Wonder who sets the rules anyway.

 

[ntfbfi]

I remember doing the enneagram test awhile back then. I am type 4 with no wing (as i got 3 equal second highest scores). I am not sure is this romantic personality makes me question my MBTI type, I sometime feel that I am more a ISFP than INTP. As i have mentioned in my replies in other posts, I have always torned between the Logical me and the senitive me. They appear from me to me, and sometime it affects the way I solve out problems and the way I connecting to the World.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

I got 5 balanced, although I think that just means I had 2 or more wings that didn't score high enough. It was 5w4/6/9 in that order but for some reason it said balanced.

edit: after taking the more detailed test I got 5w6/4/9/7 in that order

 

[Litawyn]

I read these posts and am confused about people who claim they're an Enneagram 5 with a 7 or a 9 wing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought wings were people who possessed characteristics of the immediately adjacent numbers (4 or 6 in the case of a 5) on the Enneagram. If that's the case, there IS no such thing as a 5 with a 7 wing or 9 wing.

Anyone?


J

 

[Jelly Rev]

5w6 up in here. someone should make a poll for intpf and see the major enneagram types

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

I took the test twice getting 5w4 the first time and 5w6 the second (Both SP) and 9 was the second choice both times. If anyone wants to link me to info on the Enneagram I would very much appreciate that as it's one of the few model-type-things that I haven't looked into that much.