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List of all my typings

Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
94
Location
UK
#1
Just the same as before, they might be right, the might be wrong, I can't prove it either way. Although I'll provide justification for my decisions if anyone asks. I've spent more time thinking about some than others. I'm going to update this list every so often.

I think I might have a bias of typing people as ENTJ over ESTJ, and all my ISFPs being guitarists might be a little facile. I want to put Jimmy Page as ENTJ but not sure enough yet.

I'd typed Christine Bleakley ENTJ in an earlier thread, and Auburn corrected me saying she was an Fe lead. However, her face reminds me of so many other ENTJs in my daily life that I can't go along with her being an ESFJ or ENFJ. I actually had a bit of a typing meltdown when he said that. But I believe her Fe display is the use of her role function. She is In my opinion a Te lead.


ESFJ
Jason Bateman
Jennifer Anniston
Alexander Armstrong (Pointless Host, UK Comedian)
Mollie King (The Saturdays)
Liam Gallagher
Adam Richman (Man Vs Food)
Christina Applegate
Tom Cruise
Kelly Ripa
Jamie Foxx
Dermot O’Leary (X Factor UK Host)
Tess Daley (Strictly)
Hugh Jackman
AJ Odudu (TV Presenter)
Mark Wright (TOWIE)
Dean (Rory’s first boyfriend – Gilmore Girls)
Jared Padalecki (Gilmore Girls)

ENTJ
George Clooney
David Letterman
Tulisa Contostavlos
Khloe Kardashian
Channing Tatum
Slavoj Zizek
Shirley Manson
Suzanna Reid (BBC Breakfast Presenter)
Deborah Meaden
Kelly Bishop (Gilmore Girls)
Lisa Weil (Gilmore Girls)
Christine Bleakley (Presenter)
Louise Thompson (Made In Chelsea)
Charlie Brooker
David Cameron
Richard Bacon (UK Presenter)
Milo Ventimiglia (Gilmore Girls)
Amy Poehler (Parks and Recreation)
Rebecca Brooks

INTP
Alexis Bledel (Gilmore Girls)
Claire Danes
Evan Peters (American Horror Story)
Marion Cotillard
Amanda Seyfried
Adam Brody
Konnie Huq (Presenter)
Lorraine Pascal (TV Chef)
Gordon Brown
Harry Hill (Comedian)
Lorde

ISFP
Eddie Reader
Johnny Marr
Jimmy Page
Jimmy Hendrix
Eric Clapton
Kirk Hammett

ESTP
Spencer Matthews (Made In Chelsea)
Robbie Williams
Tommy Sheridan (Scottish Politician)
Niall Horan

ENFP
Justin Hawkins (The Darkness)
Russell Brand
Ken Bruce (Radio 2 Presenter)
Craig Revel Horwood (Strictly)
Richard Osman (Pointless Presenter)
Jonathan Ross
John Richardson (Comedian)
John Mayer
Craig Fergusson
Jimmy Saville

ISTJ
Rooney Mara
Ed Graham (The Darkness)
Edward Harmann

INFJ
Lauren Graham (Actress)
Kristen Wiig (Comedian)
Leigh Francis (Comedian)
Jessica Lange (Actress)
George Galloway (Politician)
Katy Perry


ESTJ
Sharon Osbourne
Louis Walsh (X Factor UK Judge)
John Humphries (Political Presenter)
Demi Moore

ENFJ
Nicole Scherzinger
Andrew Neill (Political Presenter)
Caroline Flack (Xtra Factor Presenter)
Kaley Cuoco

INTJ
Gary Barlow (X Factor UK Judge)
Andrew Castle (TV Presenter)
Sean Gunn (Gilmore Girls)
Christopher Hitchens
Adam Scott (Parks and Recreation)

ISTP
Frankie Boyle (Comedian)
Ryan Gosling
Andy Murray
James May (Top Gear)
Nicholas MacDonald (Current X Factor Contestant)
Matt Richardson (Xtra Factor Presenter)
Nick Offerman (Parks and Recreation)
Frank Lampard (Footballer)

ENTP
Conan O’Brien
Chris Evans (One Show Presenter)
Jim Carrey
Bruce Forsyth
Tony Blair
Keiko Agena (Gilmore Girls)
Toby Turner (Youtube personality)

ESFP
Jimmy Kimmel
Rylan Clarke (X Factor)
Danny Minogue
Nick Grimshaw (Radio One)

ISFJ
Alex Jones (One Show Presenter)
Jonah Hill

INFP
Harry Styles
Emma Willis (Presenter)
Luke Friend (Current UK X Factor Contestant)
James Arthur (X Factor Winner)
Kim Wilde
Bruce Willis
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
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#3
My reasons for Harry Styles are:
From INFP Personality Page:
“Generally thoughtful and considerate, INFPs are good listeners and put people at ease. Although they may be reserved in expressing emotion, they have a very deep well of caring and are genuinely interested in understanding people. This sincerity is sensed by others, making the INFP a valued friend and confidante. An INFP can be quite warm with people he or she knows well.”

I think this describes Harry well. I think the reason everyone likes him so much is because his sincerity shines through. His vocals are believably emotional, which might be expected from an introvert Feeler.

His temperament is IXXP, solid, unchanging, reliable.

He uses Ti a lot as it is his role function, which is looking down to the right. I’ve discussed Socionics Role functions before in the Alexis Bledel post.

He is actually very similar in behaviour to Luke Friend on X Factor this year in his mannerisms. Luke friend is a fat Harry Styles basically. I think INFPs have an easy time on the X Factor UK because Simon, Sharon and Louis are ESTJ – INFP’s dual type, and also Nicole Scherzinger is ENFJ, INFP’s extinguishment relationship (which can be like favouritism). Nicholas McDonald also had an easy time of it this year as an ISTP, which is Nicole’s dual and Sharon and Louis’s extinguishment. In fact, it seemed like most of the contestants this year were INFPs. This year was an absolutely sickening display of sentimentalism towards INFPs imo. The only objective judge on the show was Gary Barlow. PLUS Caroline Flack is a presenter there and she’s ENFJ. And we all know that Harry Styles and her became a highly unlikely item when he was on the show. Well it wasn’t that unlikely because she’s Harry’s extinguishment relation. Stay away Harry!

The other women Lucy Horobin who was the DJ he supposedly had a thing with I think is ENFJ.

He likes older women as a kink. I think both INFPs and INTPs like older women as a kink. Feel free to prove me wrong about that one!

He has a crooked smile which facial expression typing experts say belongs to those with Fi. Along with other cues of this sort.
 
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#5
It seems to me that you got about 70% of these wrong because you haven't put much effort into the typing of each person individually. What is your basis for typing Kate Perry as INFJ for instance?

Googling "Kate Perry quotes" and spending 2 minutes reading some is enough to dispel the notion that she is an INFJ. I don't what other type she is but that's another matter.
 
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#6
So first and foremost she has a dreamy and fantastical vibe. This manifests in her videos like being naked in the candy floss clouds, being in the Jungle, being in Ancient Egypt. Her works always carries with it lots of symbolism and has two meanings. Surely this is what Ni does right? Her quotes for me show the same character traits as her videos. I see her as an introvert, mainly drawing out the hidden meanings in objects which is why she is interesting for so many people.
She has Fe over Fi and is someone who is more emotionally exiting than an introverted feeler who would be focused on the internal feelings. Even if she gets knocked down she doesn’t dwell on the matter and puts on a brave face for her fans. Her smile is very Fe warming.
Ti – pass.
Se – Katy Perry is visually exciting and likes the finer things in life - she has the capacity to be “Fierce”. “Roar” and the new one with the Egyptians (Dark Horse) at the end has her becoming a God and which point she is terrifying and inspirational.
For me Katy Perry is the archetypal INFJ, she has the ability because of her job to bring the fantastical/mystical side of her personality to the forefront.
See also Jesse J – she is doing the same type of thing.
I know a some of my typings are wrong. I'm going to put my other typings up soon which will correct some of them.
 
Joined
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Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
#7
man but i can name lots of pop artist who did and do the same and it doesn't make them INFJs, you said it, "she has the ability because of her job to bring the fantastical/mystical side" --- now of her personality? maybe not. For me she seems very SFP and to name another example of this: Lady Gaga.
 
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#8
So first and foremost she has a dreamy and fantastical vibe. This manifests in her videos like being naked in the candy floss clouds, being in the Jungle, being in Ancient Egypt. Her works always carries with it lots of symbolism and has two meanings. Surely this is what Ni does right? Her quotes for me show the same character traits as her videos. I see her as an introvert, mainly drawing out the hidden meanings in objects which is why she is interesting for so many people.
She has Fe over Fi and is someone who is more emotionally exiting than an introverted feeler who would be focused on the internal feelings. Even if she gets knocked down she doesn’t dwell on the matter and puts on a brave face for her fans. Her smile is very Fe warming.
Ti – pass.
Se – Katy Perry is visually exciting and likes the finer things in life - she has the capacity to be “Fierce”. “Roar” and the new one with the Egyptians (Dark Horse) at the end has her becoming a God and which point she is terrifying and inspirational.
For me Katy Perry is the archetypal INFJ, she has the ability because of her job to bring the fantastical/mystical side of her personality to the forefront.
See also Jesse J – she is doing the same type of thing.
I know a some of my typings are wrong. I'm going to put my other typings up soon which will correct some of them.
This applies to like half the female pop singers, with minor adjustments it can be made to apply to all of them. Your arguments are mindboggingly shallow showing you have no understanding of what you are doing.

Please never type again.

Edit: Sorry, but seriously dude :S
 
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#10
This applies to like half the female pop singers, with minor adjustments it can be made to apply to all of them. Your arguments are mindboggingly shallow showing you have no understanding of what you are doing.

Please never type again.

Edit: Sorry, but seriously dude :S
I'll admit that explanation was a bit shallow but it's hard trying to convey the essence of a personality. I think there is evidence to show that Katy Perry is a lead Ni user, show just an analysis of her videos and quotes aren't going to be all that convincing.
However, I don't really want to go into the Pod L'air style facial and body movement arguments because it's not my strong point and it kind of belongs to other people and doesn't seem to have got a lot of credibility on this forum.
The other thing I've been doing is looking at the Socionic relationships and analysing according to how Katy Perry acts in relation to people of other personality types. I already did that on another thread and no-one responded to it so that method doesn't have any credibility either.
And to say all female popstars are just doing the same thing isn't fair on all the talented and unique people in the pop game today.
Besides, Lady Gaga has been typed by Auburn as ESTJ and I think that is correct.
 
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#12
Auburn does his own thing, typing solely on visual cues while ignoring everything else. Lady Gaga is obviously not an ESTJ.

Frankly I don't know what the hell is wrong with this place of supposed rationals when it comes to Auburn, seeing as people don't seem to mind the fact that he's wrong like 80% of the time simply because he uses a flashy method when typing. I guess NT's can be pretty superficial when it comes to certain things.

I didn't say that all female popstars did the same thing, I said that your description is so vague and written in such general terms that it applies to half of them and can easily be made to apply to all them.
 
Joined
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#13
Katy Perry: ESFJ
Lady Gaga: ISFP

A comment regarding Auburn, and NTism in general:

Do you suppose that his theory is internally consistent? Perhaps that sort of consistency is given higher value than absolute correctness (when such a thing does not even exist in MBTI).
 
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#14
Yes, but neither he nor anyone else seems interested in bridging the gap between his internally consistent closed system and the external world so it doesn't matter to me. It's pointless solipsism. Something that could be is proposed because it might be a way to better understand reality. When you stop at that "could" and continue to develop it you end up a lonely madman in an ivory-tower.

I'm not categorically opposed to visual typing, but with the way it's done now it's obviously useless.
 
Joined
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#15
As long as typings are being critiqued why not take a more scientific attitude? Would a scientist or movie critic look at a film and categorize it as action vs mystery vs romance by looking at a two minute clip? No. But they COULD say, "This scene shows romance, drama, or action. Why not do people the same way?
 
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#16
At the behest of Cherry Cola, here are some more personality type speculations by yours truly:



Alexa Chung intj (correction!)
Chris Martin esfp
Robin Thicke estj
Paula Patton infp
Timbaland infp
Miley estj
Iggy Azaelea entp
Kyle Richards (real housewife of Beverly hills) esfp
Mauricio Umansky intj
Simon Pegg istp
Kathy Wakile (real housewife of New Jersey) entj
Caroline Manzo (real housewives of New Jersey) estj
Albie Manzo (real housewives of new jersey) entj
Laurie David entj
Cheryl Hines esfj
Larry David intp
Al Gore intp
Robert F Kennedy Jr intp
Gordon Brown (former UK PM) (correction!) istp
Ed Balls enfj
Ed Milliband intj
David Cameron entj
Patty Stanger enfj
Robert Peston entj
Valerie Trierweiler entj
Julie Gayet esfj
Jemima Khan istj
Charlie Watts istj
Taissa Farmiga infj
Chris Morris entj (comedian)
Stewart Lee intp (comedian)
Keren Woodward entj (Bananarama)
Amanda Mealing entj
Alan Johnson isfj (Politian)
Andrew Neil esfj (Journalist) (correction!)
Francois Hollande intp
Vladimir Putin istp
Bill Clinton esfj
Robert Plant entj (correction!)
Rebecca Brookes esfp (correction!)
Andy Coulson intj
Justin Timberlake isfp
Justin Theroux isfp
Jimmy Fallon entj
Freddie Prinz Jr isfp
Sarah Michelle Gellar esfj (100% certain ethical subtype)
Bruno Mars entp (100% certain logical subtype)
Simon Cowell estj
Amanda Holden esfj
David Walliams enfp
Milla Jovovich entp
Morrissey entj
Ian Curtis intj
Ian Hislop intj
Paul Merton entp
Jeremy Paxman entj
Alex Turner istp
Suzanna Reid estj (correction!)
Noel Gallagher infj
Kim Kardashian istp
Kris Jenner enfj
Bruce Kardashian estp
Kanye West isfp
Chris Stark intp (Radio 1)
 
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#18
Amanda Mealing entj
Davina McCall entj
Faris Badwan intj
Margaret thatcher entj
John Major intp
Edwina Curry entj
Ana Quincoces Miami esfj
Roger Scruton intp
David Milliband enfj
Diane Abbott enfj
Michael Portillo infj
Kyle chandler esfp
Columbo esfp
Martin freeman istp
Matt Horne istp
James Cordon enfj
Sean Penn istp
Charlese Theron enfj
Seth Rogan istp
Katherine Heigal enfj
Bob Sagat istp
Bethany Frankel entj
Jeremy Renner esfj
Gina Gershon entj
Alesha Dixon entj
David Beckham isfp
Victoria Beckham entj
Ariel Tweto istj
Louis Tomlinson esfj
Liam Payne estj
Jamie Oliver esfj
Jools Oliver intp
Reece Shearsmith intp
Steve Pemberton esfj
Bob Mortimer istp
Ulrika Jonson enfj
John Leslie istp
Anthea Turner esfj
Coleen bailinger entp
Francais boule intj
Prince Charles infp
Jimmy Saville estj (correction)
George Strombouloupolos entj
Jack White entj
Meg White intp
Kevin Spacey enfj
Jeff Goldblum istp
Sandra Bullock istp
Ben Affleck estj
Blake Lively infp
Gwyneth Paltrow infj
Jerry Seinfeld estp
Paul Merton enfj (correction)

I'd like to point out that I've typed Jerry Seinfeld as an ESTP and Larry David as INTP. This is a supervision relationship according to Socionics. So the type of banter which led to the most successful sitcom of all time arose in this type of relationship dynamic.
 

scenefinale

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#19
I'd like to point out that I've typed Jerry Seinfeld as an ESTP and Larry David as INTP. This is a supervision relationship according to Socionics. So the type of banter which led to the most successful sitcom of all time arose in this type of relationship dynamic.
I cannot say I agree with any typing I see in your lists. Seinfeld is an ESTJ, Larry David is an ISTP.
 

Jennywocky

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#20
Well, congratulations on the Larry David read, at least.

EDIT: Oops, sorry, guess that one's not a done deal either.
 
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#21
@scenefinale What really? None! I assure you that most of them are right. Jerry Seinfeld is one of the ones I'm most sure about because of his resemblance to a person I know in real life. Cherry Cola predicts around a 30% accuracy rate.

@jennywocky I think we're mostly all in agreement about Larry David, but then the general consensus seems to be that Jeff Goldblum is INTP too.
 
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#22
The thing with RL people is when you use them as a basis for typing people you don't know you better have those RL people typed to da fucken max :P

Cause if you got that RL person typed wrong you're going to be reinforcing that wrongness everytime you type someone with the same type. Not saying you got the dude you knew in real life wrong, it's just that people in general do get their friends and relatives typed inaccurately quite a lot even if less than they do strangers. You also risk typing others as xxxx type because they resemble person x which is also xxxx type in this and that way, when while they do really resemble one another they happen to do so owing to social context, or in ways that actually have little to do with their type or only has to do with the type of one of them.
 

scenefinale

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#23
@scenefinale What really? None! I assure you that most of them are right. Jerry Seinfeld is one of the ones I'm most sure about because of his resemblance to a person I know in real life. Cherry Cola predicts around a 30% accuracy rate.
I do not mean literally none (even a broken watch can be right twice a day), I was more speaking to the credibility of the list as a whole. The fact that you have Seinfeld typed as an ESTP tells me you are more than likely guessing just based on vague notions of what each "letter" means rather than typing by cues of cognitive function pairs and preference, e.g. facial and body language, reasoning about how they make associations, etc. You have Iggy Azalea typed as an ENTP? Are you throwing darts at a board-full-of-letters in cases of uncertainty or maybe just trolling? (I really can't tell)

Forgive me if I am coming off somewhat rude here, it is not my intention; I encourage you to learn as much as possible about this psychology, I can tell from your posts here and other threads that you enjoy it and I fully agree with you it is lots of fun. I hope we both benefit from this disagreement.
@jennywocky I think we're mostly all in agreement about Larry David, but then the general consensus seems to be that Jeff Goldblum is INTP too.
"we're mostly all in agreement" -> who is we?
Also, Seinfeld and LD do have a "special relationship" as you have seemed to pick up on, however, it is that they use functions of opposite attitude (in same ordering) that is to say, they are in opposite Quadras (as socionics would put it) but their cognitive processes are in the same order (T, S, N, F), just opposite in attitudes. This is a very special pattern that I and many others have observed (hopefully I will have time to elaborate on in a video or something) but I don't believe it is as you say it is.

Seinfeld is ESTJ, LD is an ISTP, you are free to disagree with me, of course, but I encourage you to take some time to learn each function first. I think you will come to find this is the case.
 

scenefinale

Active Member
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#24
The thing with RL people is when you use them as a basis for typing people you don't know you better have those RL people typed to da fucken max :P

Cause if you got that RL person typed wrong you're going to be reinforcing that wrongness everytime you type someone with the same type. Not saying you got the dude you knew in real life wrong, it's just that people in general do get their friends and relatives typed inaccurately quite a lot even if less than they do strangers. You also risk typing others as xxxx type because they resemble person x which is also xxxx type in this and that way, when while they do really resemble one another when they do so owing to social context or in ways that actually have little to do with their type or only has to do with the type of one of them.
This is very true, I can't tell you how many people read the "mastermind" description and think, "oh this one sounds cool I'll go with that" and then tell everyone they are an INTJ.

@Lordran_Nights Don't go by what types people say they are (free tests are wrong quite often, and a lot of descriptions of the types out there are subject to Forer effect, in my experience), learn the cognitive functions.
 
Last edited:
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#25
Yer, I mean if you just look at people quickly and then go on and type them you really can't be that accurate. You need to know why the person displays x behavior to attach x behavior to x type and you need to look at behavior across a wide timespan in different contexts to make sure x behavior wasn't just a behavorial anomaly. Quality>Quantity.
 
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#26
That's a fair point. But you haven't any proof these people on here have incorrectly typed their friends and family, though you are probably right in a lot of cases.

The thing about having the people in front of you in real life is that you if you know Socionics relationships you can vibe them out and gauge your relationship dynamic with them. Which in some cases can be quite an unmistakeable vibe. This is the main way I get my "definites". Then if there is an uncanny resemblance in terms of facial features, behaviour and mannerisms to someone else then it means you have the same type.

You can also witness the relationship dynamic with every other person you see them come into contact over an extended period, and an open plan office is quite a good place to do that.

I'm most sure about my ESTP because the large network of typed people in my office behaves according to all aspects of Socionics theory. The visual stuff for me comes after, but in the long run it's the more familiar you become with the visual cues that will make you the speediest typer. However, unless you have a large bank of "definites" then it's going to be hard to get a knowledge of the visual cues that belong to each species of a type.

For instance, Ed Balls took me a long time to type, I knew he was really tight with Gordon Brown so I had a suspicion ENTJ right after I made Gordon Brown an ISTP over INTP, but now I know him, James Cordon becomes a lot easier since they're practically the same. I don't have an Ed Balls doppleganger in my office, but the initial read would have been a lot easier if I did.

I'm convinced that although there are quite a large variety of different sub-types out there, it isn't as big as some would imagine. To the point that typing from a photograph should be possible with enough practice.
 
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#27
Mel Gibson istp
Lin shaye esfj
Britney Spears infj
Kevin Federline estp
Ellen degeneris enfp
Portia de Rossi infj
Jasmine Harman entj
Michelle Collins enfj
Gabby roselyn entj
Lauren Mayberry intp
Kirsty Wark istj
Carl Jung enfj
William Hague enfj
Tony Blair isfj
Lolo Jones istj
Ginger Baker istj
Claire Grogan esfj
Ross Kemp isfj
Gordon Brewer entj
Michael McIntyre esfj
Chris Pratt esfj
Chris Packham isfp
Nick Albrook intp
Michael Buble istp
Jessica Chobot estj
Kevin Bridges
Jacob Rees mogg istj
James McAvoy esfj
Anna Faris intp
Anne-Marie Duff intp
Andrew Garfield isfj
Emma Stone entp
Scott Mills entj
Mark Ruffalo intp
Simon King istp
Lana Del Rey esfp
Dawn O'Porter infj
Doug Stanhope estp
James Gandolfini esfp
Michael Imperioli intj
Drea De Matteo istp
Jamie-Lynn Sigler infp
Tony Sirico esfj
Eva Mendez enfj
Joe Pantoliano estp
WillIam Roache istp
Boris Johnson enfj
Adam Tomkins enfj
Eva Longoria entj
Russ Abbot esfp
Len Goodman esfp
James Argent isfp
Russell Crowe esfj
Danny Dyer esfj
Emun Elliott esfj
Simon Rimmer esfj
Tom Cruise estj
Katie Holmes infp
Eminem isfp
Rihanna entj
Hugh Jackman estj
Natalie Imbruglia intp
Miranda Kerr esfp
Marian Carey entj
Elton John entj
Billy Joel entj
Shania Twain esfj
Peter Mandelson entp
Chris Brown isfp
Paul Merton enfp (correction again! I meant this the first time)
 
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#28
Someone lock this thread pleeeeeeeaaaaseee

If not then please

Britney Spears INFJ, why?
Carl Jung ENFJ, why?
Andrew Garfield ISFJ, why?
James Gandolfini ESFP, why?
Elton John ENTJ, why?
Natalie Imbruglia INTP, why?
Mariah Carey ENTJ, why?

To mention a few.
 
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#29
It would take to long to do them all. And I don't think you'd be persuaded by my answers anyway. A big part of my typing method now is determining the "thinking style" the type is using from the Gulenko article "cognitive styles".
Carl Jung is someone who uses the dialectical style, if you look for it you can find it. One example is the theory of compensation which comes from seeing something from it's opposite side.
Also the similarity between Jung and William Hague, especially the laugh, and the back and forth way that Hague talks and the way they both go up at the end. There are other reasons due to ilrl people I know, a Serbian taxi driver that knows seven languages with the same conversational style. Enfj are good at languages. Disregard for comfort, seen in his biography, socionics vulnerable function is Si.
Things he's said about feeling and thinking and him not identifying with feeling, saying in Psychological types that the vast majority of extroverted feeling types are women, is one of the few things in Chapter Ten which are not on point. I think he might have a complex about it lol. He spent a lot of time alone in his childhood which may have allowed him to develop his thinking more often.
 
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#30
Specific typing methods are in my experience generally excuses used by people who can't be arsed to type properly by researching til they gain an holistic understanding of their subject, instead they type by one or two tell-tale signs they've learned to look for. They are 2 cool 4 functional analysis.

If I wouldn't be convinced by your motivations then perhaps someone else would? What is the point of the thread if all you are going to do is dump lists in it? Frankly I don't think it's just me who wouldn't be convinced, I think you don't want to put your cases forward in any detail because you can't. I'm gonna go through the case you did make anyway.

The only thing that pops up when I google "the dialectical style" is Socrates dialectical style. There is no "The" dialectical style; there are dialectics of different styles. But more importantly, why would his supposed usage of the dialectical style mean he's an ENFJ? Your argument here is just "The dialectical style; therefore, ENFJ", you've not connected the two in any way whatsoever.

So he shares some superficial similarities with William Hague. A quick google shows that there is no agreed upon type for Willy, in fact the only typing of him I could find I found by hitting CTRL+F in this thread. So alright Carl Jung is an ENFJ because you find him similar to another dude who you also found to be ENFJ. Hello circular argument. It's the same with the Serbian Taxi driver. These are not arguments, they are examples of you expecting others to just assume you are right.

So ENFJs are good languages and disregard comfort? The same applies to INTPs, INFJs, INFPs and to a lesser extent some other types as well. This is not an argument either.

His vurnerable function is Si according to socionics IF he is an ENFJ; yet another circular argument.

But I agree with you that he probably did have something akin to a complex in regards to thinking. He was often derogatorily called a mystic; a weirdo who hid behind the ambiguity of his work. Jung didn't like to be undermined that way. To him he made perfect sense, so he probably stressed his status as a thinker because of a subconscious need to defend himself against such accusations. But that doesn't make him an ENFJ either. It points towards him being a feeler of some sort, as tertiary and inferior functions tend to constitute weak points in the psyche, but it doesn't point towards him being an ENFJ specifically. Hence, it's not a valid argument.

Him spending a lot of time alone in his childhood may indeed have allowed him to develop his thinking, but it points towards him being an introvert, not an extrovert.

So all in all 0 arguments.

But you assured us most of your typings were correct earlier on so I guess we should just trust you ;)
 
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#31
great. i was under the spell of some entirely baseless inkling that this guy had substance. admittedly it may have been simply because his infrequent posting here gave the impression of time well spent.

i feel lighter now. thx CC
 
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#32
Right, just to point out that I did read the Gulenko article about 5 times before I understood it, and then took another few months to have some idea of how it translates to real life and notice it more in the way people think, I think it’s natural that you wouldn’t fully get what I was on about in the sentence or two I wrote about it above. But, it is only one part of the reason why I think Jung is ENFJ.

To summarise the article extremely briefly:

Gulenko says there are 4 overarching “styles” of thinking. Although each type is probably capable of conceptualizing each style and to some extent using it, only one style will come naturally to them and that is the one they will use predominantly. Each style confers its own advantages and disadvantages.

1. Causal/Deterministic – Types: ESFP, ISTP, ENTP, INFP
2. Dialectical/Algorythmic – Types: ENFJ, INTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ
3. Holographical/Panoramic – Types: INTP, ESTP, ENFP, ISFP
4. Vortexical/Synergistic – Types: INFJ, ENTJ, ESFJ, ISTJ

So basically if you can determine the thinking style a type is using then you can basically rule out 12 types. If I think Jung is using Dialectical/Algorythmic then he is either ENFJ, INTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ.

But remember the thinking styles angle was just one part of my, admittedly badly presented argument, and so I’ve had to employ other typing methods to narrow down the choice further or to provide corroboration.

Here is a definition of the term “Dialectic” from my “Dictionary of Political Thought” by Roger Scruton (which I totally recommend BTW), but I’m going to use the definition as an example:

'Dialectic. A term derived from Greek philosophy (literally: argument), and used in a variety of interconnected ways throughout the history of Western thought:
1. Plato. The dialectic is the process of question and answer, whereby the philosopher draws his interlocutor to see for himself the truth of which the philosopher wishes to persuade him. The “Socratic method” consists in first prompting a response, and then, by showing it to be erroneous, turning the disputant’s mind in the direction of a truth that he will recognise as true without recourse to received ideas, prejudice or external authority. The “dialectic” is supposed to show that the rational ability to perceive truth is innate, and needs only to be awakened by philosophical reflection.
2. Kant. The dialectic is the “logic of illusion”, the process of contradictory and fallacious reasoning which follows upon the attempt to know the world absolutely, through pure reason alone, and without reference to the experience and point of view of the knowing subject. A dialectical contradiction is one in which each premise is founded on a false supposition, itself derived from the vain attempt to see the world from a “transcendent perspective”, as a thing in itself.
3. Hegel, influenced by Kant, was concerned, however not to bury but praise the “dialectical modes of reasoning. In Hegel “dialectic” describes both the relation between premises and conclusions in a logical argument, and also the process of historical development in reality. The essence of the dialectical movement is “the negation of the negation”, or the labour of the negative” whereby the truth is approached by the successive generation of the negation of each concept postulated in the attempt to capture it. A concept is posited: it describes reality only partially and generates out of itself its own negation. The concept of the two concepts is resolved (transcended) by the process of dialectical union, whereby a new, more adequate representation of the world is derived. And so on. (Later idealists sometimes used the terms thesis, antithesis and synthesis to denote the three parts of the argument) History moves in like manner, from crude formless gestures, by way of dialectical contradictions in action, to the fully realised consciousness of science, embodied in the institutions of a state. The oppositions that determine all development, whether in logical or mathematical argument, or in the human soul and society, are to be construed not as conflicts, but contradictions.'


So here we 3 different senses in which it is defined. The Platonic sense, which can be seen if you read “The Republic”. Socrates used to go to a big square in ancient Greece and argue with others in presumably quite a loud, attention-seeking kind of way. I got “The Republic” and was kind of annoyed that it took you through all these horseshit arguments before you get to something you can sort of agree with. But this is an example of what dialectic is like in action. Working with contradictions.

Kant doesn’t like the dialectic style obviously, he is not someone with that style of thinking. However Hegel is definitely someone who does use the dialectical style, which can be seen when you read the first pages of Phenomenology of Spirit. Hegel defined it as the negation of the negation. Hegel influenced Marx and Engels. Capital is written in a dialectical style. Seeing things in this way does allow eventually a lot of complexity to be added to what starts off laughably simply. I’m not sure I understand Hegellian dialectics fully either.

And I haven’t even described the Algorythmic part of that particular thinking style. Gulenko mentions at the end of the article that if one type was properly going to be called “genius” then it would probably be ENFJ.

But really, the thinking styles article is pretty much the missing link in terms of typology. Forum member Viche has stated in a thread on here dedicated to that article that he uses it to type people too.
 

Animekitty

World A.I. transfomantion is Near
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#36
Static–Dynamic Dichotomy

Time/motion: (Slower than - (speed) - faster than)
Space/shape: (larger than - (size/proportion) - smaller than)
New trinity formations

unity/polarity/dichotomy:
(unbalance - (Balance) - unbalance)

(resonance/harmony - Order/disorder):
(Smoothness/fluidity - (discreteness - wholeness - discreteness) - crystallization/rigidity)
attribute - property:
quality - quantity
 
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94
Location
UK
#37
Bill Murray esfj
Wes Anderson intp
Owen Wilson esfj
Tania Derveaux intp
Michael Chiklis esfj
Zack Braff isfp
Ray Romano isfp
Heidi klum esfj
Rosamund Pike intp
Christina Hendricks intp
Blonde Electra intp/esfj
J k Rowling intp
Sarah Jane Crawford esfj
Emily blunt entj
David Dimbleby entj
Gillian Anderson intp
Benny Hill intp
Mark wahlberg esfj
Ellie goulding intp
Patsy kensit intp
Mel giedroyc esfj
Sue Perkins intp
Richard Herring esfj
Bill Gates intp
Victoria Wood intp
Michael Ball esfj
Stephen Merchant intp
Amber Rose esfj
Wiz isfp
Rowan Williams intp
Alex Polizzi entj
Giovanni Ribisi entj
Agnes Deyn intp
Mick Jagger entj
Nigel Farage entj
Keith Richards isfp
Dakota Johnston intj
Vicky Pattison estp
Gaz Beadle estp
Charlotte Crosbie infj
David Gandy intp
Henry Cavill intp
Noel Fielding isfp
Chris Packham isfp
Stephen Fry entj
Alan Davies isfp
Vince Vaughn intp
Steve Coogan infp
Rob Brydon estj
Stevie Richie estj
Chloe Jasmine istp
Ed Sheeran istp
Ant McPartlin infp
Declan Donnelly estj
FKA Twigs intj
Robert Pattinson esfp
Neil Morrisey isfp
Martin Clunes entj
 
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UK
#38
Miranda Green entp
Ruth Goodman entp
Yvette Cooper istp
Esther McVey istp
Martin Scorsese estp
Clint Eastwood istj
Eric McCormick istp
Deborah Messing enfj
Cliff Richard istp
Gloria Hunniford enfj
Ariana Grande istp
Jamie Dornan esfp
Gordon Ramsay esfj
Monica Lewinsky intp
Al Murray entp
Jesse Wallace intp
Shane Richie esfj
Letitia Dean estj
Rosie o donell estp
Harrison Ford istp
Jada Pinkett Smith istp
Queen Latifa enfj
Will Smith enfj
J k Rowling infj (correction)
Jay Leno estp

I follow j k rowling on twitter and she announced she was infj and that contradicts my intp read. I think once again that I've been getting too trigger happy with the typing. My method as previously stated is to look for dual relationships and she most obviously connects with Rosie O Donnell. I think rod is estp. Just like jay Leno.
 
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#39
Jessica Brown Findlay intp (correction)
Denise van outen enfj
Johnny Vaugn istp
Chris Tarrant entp
Michael Shannon Intp
Dane Dehaan intp
Rich Hall intp
Natasha Leggaro infj
Alex Massie intj
Nicola Sturgeon estj
Dermot Morgan estj
Nick Clegg isfp
Andy Bunham isfp
Miriam Gonzalez Durantez entj
Justin webb entj
Shania Twain esfp (correction)
 
Last edited:
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Aug 11, 2012
Messages
94
Location
UK
#40
Danny Alexander intp
Joey Essex isfp
Simon Gregson intp
Andrew Rawnsley entj
Boris Johnson enfp (correction)
Adam Tomkins enfp (correction)
Kirsty Wark isfj (correction)
Natalie Haynes entp
Kylie Minogue esfj
Nick Cave intp
Matt Le Blanc intp
Michael Strahan esfj
Macauley Culkin isfp (correction)
Ashton Kutcher isfp
Mila Kunis entj
 

Yellow

for the glory of satan
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#41
I'll admit that explanation was a bit shallow but it's hard trying to convey the essence of a personality. I think there is evidence to show that Katy Perry is a lead Ni user, show just an analysis of her videos and quotes aren't going to be all that convincing.
Not to beat a dead horse, but it would be hard to type just about any celebrity, especially those who have an unknown amount of real input into their "art" like Katy Perry. I mean, how do you know any of her video ideas were actually hers?

On a similar note, many celebrities these days are very aware of the internet, and how acting quirky or taking on an approachable "real" persona makes them more popular. I imagine it's not too difficult for actors.

Also, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP, ENTP, INFJ, and ENFJ really aren't very common, so when in doubt, go with "S".
 
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#42
Not to beat a dead horse, but it would be hard to type just about any celebrity, especially those who have an unknown amount of real input into their "art" like Katy Perry. I mean, how do you know any of her video ideas were actually hers?

On a similar note, many celebrities these days are very aware of the internet, and how acting quirky or taking on an approachable "real" persona makes them more popular. I imagine it's not too difficult for actors.

Also, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP, ENTP, INFJ, and ENFJ really aren't very common, so when in doubt, go with "S".
I've usually watched quite a lot of video footage of the celebrities before I type them. And I do it based off their relationship to the people they are conversing with at the time. Really what I said about Katy Perry's lyrics and the themes in the songs came after I guessed her type. It was more to do with her relationships with Russell Brand and John Mayer, plus Someone I know in real life who is like her. I'm not an expert in Introverted intuition or anything, I just know that it's to do with symbols and time perception, and there's a lot of symbolism in her songs and videos.

When you say that some types are more common than others is just based off something you've read somewhere else. Personality Page says intp is one of the rarest types but there are 4 in my office of about 40, and I don't even work in IT. It makes people feel more special if they think they are more rare or special or better than others, but you aren't so deal with it!

It would make more sense for the human race to be made up of 16 types in roughly equal number so their talents and abilities would complement each other. Rather it be like that than some sort of hierarchy where the N-type queen bees order the S-type 'drones' around.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
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#43
That's an awful lot of footage, considering the deluge of names.

...And no need to make this into some kind of anti-N rant either. She didn't say N's were "better," she just said (as the percentages go) that there just are less based on the tests. Which is true. Although honestly who cares as far as this discussion goes; just assess their behavior and pick whatever type makes sense.
 
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Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
#44
I wouldn't say "since Ns are less common type S instead", what about be clueless? or don't type instead. When you do treat Ns as special beings then you create this kind of absurd debate where you put into the N bag those who stand out in some way not in the overall but looking at the group you are comparing with. That's not how typing goes. You should aislate the individual from its context and decide trying to objectively note how he integrates each function.
Avoid the typical: she loves her national anthem, she's so past based she must be SJ.
Otherwise you could be separating INTJs from ISTJs because of their IQs for instance.
I do agree tho that Lordan is complitely clueless about typology or he's doing his thing with theory. Practicing weird postures, upside down kamasutring.
 
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#45
Well I haven't watched them all the same amount. To be honest I haven't watched that much footage for some of them. But that doesn't mean I'm completely wrong!
 
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#46
I'd summarise my method basically is about dual pairs.

If two people get on extremely super well then they are probably a dual pair. Here is an esfj intp dual pair:
http://youtu.be/BY9OZNYSyjs

Here is a enfj istp dual pair:
http://youtu.be/lDOgHscYbVc

And doppelgängers are helpful too because I'm really like Evan Peters in real life, not quite as good looking but we are identical in terms of mannerisms. So if I'm intp that makes Evan peters intp too, then it's looking for good chemistry to work out duals. That's another method.

Then there is my psychic seduction method, but that's pretty advanced and I'm not telling you that.

But it's not just one method but the main two I use are the first two.
 

Yellow

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#47
I wouldn't say "since Ns are less common type S instead", what about be clueless? or don't type instead. When you do treat Ns as special beings then you create this kind of absurd debate where you put into the N bag those who stand out in some way not in the overall but looking at the group you are comparing with. That's not how typing goes. You should aislate the individual from its context and decide trying to objectively note how he integrates each function.
Avoid the typical: she loves her national anthem, she's so past based she must be SJ.
Otherwise you could be separating INTJs from ISTJs because of their IQs for instance.
I do agree tho that Lordan is complitely clueless about typology or he's doing his thing with theory. Practicing weird postures, upside down kamasutring.
I was actually going the other way with it.

I get mildly annoyed by how many celebrities are shallowly attributed to INTP and the NT's in general, when it is just as likely (perhaps more likely) that they are another type. Too often people here claim that popular figures & characters, like Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Tina Fey, Bill Gates, Sherlock Holmes, and I dunno, House MD MUST be INTP (or if not, our cool big brother INTJ!) because they are smart and creative and appear to be somewhat reserved with their private life.

I'm not saying one or more of the aforementioned cannot be INTP, but really, the rationalizations are usually incredibly thin. It's almost as if people are trying to stick them into the INTP peg just to make themselves feel better about their INTP-ness or beliefs of INTP-ness or something. It's fucking weird, is what it is.

Most people are Sensors and there's nothing wrong with that. Just because someone looks a little idealistic or smart or otherwise special, it is not an automatic addition to the "N" pile.
 
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#48
Michael Gove istp
Paul Rudd esfj
Alicia vikander intp
Michael Fassbender esfj
Zoe Kravitz esfj
Ralph Fiennes esfj
Elly Jackson intp
Jane McDonald entj
Nadia Sawala enfj
Frank Lampard isfp
Jarvis Cocker isfp
Michael Heseltine entj
John Stewart enfj
Justin Hawkins enfp
James May isfp
Richard Hammond estj
Jeremy Clarkson entj
Jonah Hill istj (correction)
Michael Flatley isfp
David Duchovney esfj
Damon Albarn entj
Graham Coxon isfp
Dave Rowntree intj
Alex James esfp
Jensen Ackles intp
Hugh Grant intp
Sarah Jessica Parker esfj
Anthony Stewart Head intp
Chris Noth intp
Marc Bolan entj
Jude Law entj
Rebel Wilson istj
Sienna Miller esfj
Steve Buscemi intp
Theresa May intj
Kym Marsh esfj
 
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