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Leadership.

Linsejko

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What does an INTP leader look like? The complementing question was asked to INTJ's on INTJ forum, and eventually they turned some curiosity towards the INTP members there.

I started wondering what you guys would say. What is your take on being a leader? On being a follower? Do you enjoy it? Do you seek it? Do you feel you are good at it despite your disliking it? Do you find others wanting you to be the leader?

Just question to provoke the direction I'm looking for this to go in.

.L
 

Zero

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What forum (section) are they talking about this on?

I don't want to be a leader, nor does anyone usually think I would be worthy as a leader. I certainly couldn't stand being a leader, if anything I would rather be in the background of such a title and influence the "leader". Leaders have to deal with people and organize them. I suppose if by some unlucky, for them (ahaha), fate I became the leader to some ...subjects... I would probably take a shadow position and let my retainer deal directly with the people. I would assume INTP would be more interested in developing ideas and solutions rather than doing all of it and having to deal with people and all that. That's where impatience and frustration comes in. As a leader I would definitely find someone I could trust and who could organize people to do my bidding.
 

mm1991

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I think INTPs are capable of being leaders. For us to be put into that position, for me at least, it would have to be something that I deeply cared about and put my heart and soul into. With that said, I think we would be somewhat moderately comfortable.
On the other hand, if we are appointed a leader position not to our liking, we would probly be extremely uncomfortable.
But then again, I know some very outgoing INTPs who wouldn't mind at all. Just don't disturb them in their alone time! ;)
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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I think we'd make good leaders. Logic to a tee.

What do they look like? Damn fine.
 

Ermine

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I think the best place to start would be WWII masterminds. For example, Dwight D. Eisenhower. I'm pretty sure he was INTP. He was a major general for the US, certainly a great leader as well as a military mastermind. He also was president of the US some time afterward.

But personally, I'd rather be the "power behind the throne". Leading, but without the publicity.
 

EditorOne

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Accusations of arrogance and the reality of emotional disconnect are often pitfalls for INTPs who find themselves in leadership positions. "Find themselves," because, yes, I think we tend not to seek it out. I'm editor of a newspaper because, after the previous editor left, I had a choice as the number two guy of seeking the number one post for myself or running the risk corporate would bring in a complete jackanapes who would upset everything built here in the last nine years. I've worked for anal retentives and don't want to take orders from them any more, (at one place we had to peg out our budget projections to three decimal points. I mean, really). I opted to seek the editor's job rather than face the turmoil of adjusting to yet another detail-oriented, beady-eyed, pinch-faced sour misanthrope. It fits with one of the more useful paradigms I've embraced, that sometimes you don't actually solve problems, you merely substitute other problems you'd rather deal with.

A big drawback is dealing with emotion-based personalities. That can lead to serious trouble unless you enlist the help of a trusted associate to cue you what to do with those folks, who, after all, are no more to blame for the way they operate than we are and are entitled to respect and consideration.
 

loveofreason

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Accusations of arrogance and the reality of emotional disconnect are often pitfalls for INTPs who find themselves in leadership positions. "Find themselves," because, yes, I think we tend not to seek it out. I'm editor of a newspaper because, after the previous editor left, I had a choice as the number two guy of seeking the number one post for myself or running the risk corporate would bring in a complete jackanapes who would upset everything built here in the last nine years. I've worked for anal retentives and don't want to take orders from them any more, (at one place we had to peg out our budget projections to three decimal points. I mean, really). I opted to seek the editor's job rather than face the turmoil of adjusting to yet another detail-oriented, beady-eyed, pinch-faced sour misanthrope. It fits with one of the more useful paradigms I've embraced, that sometimes you don't actually solve problems, you merely substitute other problems you'd rather deal with.

A big drawback is dealing with emotion-based personalities. That can lead to serious trouble unless you enlist the help of a trusted associate to cue you what to do with those folks, who, after all, are no more to blame for the way they operate than we are and are entitled to respect and consideration.

I'm coming to realise this wisdom too.

I'm 'accidentally' in charge of an organisation because no one else would do it, and it needed doing. But I've become a control freak in my own life because I'm so tired of being subject to the incompetence of others. Freedom is the capacity to choose one's own burdens.
 

EditorOne

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"Freedom is the capacity to choose one's own burdens."

That is as concisely and elegantly stated as it could possibly be. :-)
 

Zero

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I wonder what the ideal leader personality, in combination with INTP, would be? I would rather be something like "controller" rather than "leader". I would think ENTPs would make excellent leaders.
 

EditorOne

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Depends on what you need led, to some extent. If you want a vision of how things could work, that's an INTP specialty. But the other parts of the formula for leadership (clarity of vision, courage of commitment, ability to communicate the vision effectively) may not work out quite so well for any NT. Effective communication to the part of the world that relies more on "feeling" than "thinking" to get things decided and done can be about as easy as bottling smoke for an NT. Courage would seem to be a quality independent of personality type, but for an "I" merely speaking out in a crowd for your vision would require courage.

Sidenote: Note how many politicians rely on communicating by feeling to establish their leadership creds, regardless of how effective they actually are or might ever have been. We've got politicians pushing the "feel" button here right now over gun ownership rights. Last election cycle the buttons got pushed over how people feel about "illegal immigrants." That's pandering to emotions, yeah, but it passes for leadership.
 

Cabbo Pearimo

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The way I see it, leading is controlling, if you're smart enough.
 

Zero

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Usually I think of a leader as a group leader and someone who specifically works with organizing people. That is very ENTJ. My ENTJ friend DOES that. He's hilarious. I don't want to work directly with people, it's annoying.
 

Agapooka

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Strange, those extroverts...

Anyhow, I've been in the position of being the head admin of a gaming forum with almost 10,000 members. It was hell. I don't know where to begin describing the fact that I simply couldn't deal with it. The expectations were ludicrous. It seemed as though the populace of that forum sought a cult leader, which they despised if he tried to lead them. As far as I see it, my role was meant to be that of a leader of the large moderation team, which is more reasonable, yet still impossible for me to manage effectively without some sort of breakdown. I quit before I had one.

I noticed that the one who replaced me is also an INTP and that he's having the exact same problems as me. I've kept in contact with him and the only reason he's putting up with the skewed expectations is that he believes that there is no possibility for a competent replacement.

No, I would hate to be in such a position again. I'm much more comfortable if I have a strong leader above me, to whom I can direct all the problems that I am not comfortable solving, and then advise him or her as to how they ought to be solved. I think I've seen others here say that they feel in their place if they are not the leader, but the advisor to the leader, as longs as they both think in like terms.
 

Linsejko

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I think it is maturity to learn to advise those who may think very differently.

That was exactly the kind of response I was hoping to provoke, though. Interesting information.

Zero, so antisocial? People aren't so bad, you know, when you really get to know them. They usually act that way because they hurt; you can enlighten them, you know.

Cabbo, leading is directing, and further, good leadership is directing so as to attain the maximum benefit for the group being led. (That is how I see it, at least.)

.L
 

EditorOne

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I can suggest a possibly useful angle on leadership: Leadership is identifying the right things to do -- in any situation or organization -- and getting others to do them. If you do that by finding the common ground between what needs to be done and why people are in their situation or organization, you eliminate much of the "control" aspect of the thing.

Some of us appear to be lumping management in with leadership. Management is more supervision aimed at making sure people are doing things right, torquing the screws to the right point, stacking the crates where they belong, counting the beans the way they should be counted. Juxtapose that concept of management with leadership -- making sure they're doing the right things -- and leadership becomes a much more attractive proposition, at least for this INTP.

U.S. Grant, the civil war general and later United States President, wanted an INTP as his adjutant -- kind of the executive officer of a regiment -- at all times. He of course didn't call him an INTP, since that was 1864. What he wanted an adjutant who was both lazy and smart. "Smart" would lead him to figure out what had to be done for the regiment to be capable of carrying out its mission - organizing rations, ammunition supply, drill, equipment supply, transport, etc. "Lazy" would mean he'd delegate just about everything to people he knew could get it done, thus leveraging his effectiveness rather than overwhelming himself with those details. And keep in mind an adjutant was a kind of not-formally-in-charge-of-anything position, more like a powerful executive secretary, not a formal battalion leader like the colonel. Sounds exactly what some of you see as your preferred position.
 

Zero

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Well, my introvert attitude has the highest percentage, anywhere between 70-100%. Despite the fact that I wasn't ever classified as argumentative or brilliant as a kid I've always been very "independent" as people said. Especially when I'm ill or irritated (Currently I seem to have a cold) I can't stand people. Right now I'm having trouble even standing this forum. It's draining me, but I feel a social obligation. I believe that's probably something from conditioning. Perhaps I'm an extreme introvert, because I HAVE to be nice to people and it's almost an instant drain. My T function wasn't encourage when I was young. So dealing with other people ends up being frustrating, difficult, and draining. Maybe I should elaborate a bit on that. It's Frustrating, because I wouldn't dare speak my mind. I know if I do I'll regret it, I may hurt someone's feelings and that's such a pain in the ass to make up, I may be scowled and I do fear other people having violent tempers. I don't trust that civilized people don't have the ability to kill me or at the very least drag out a long and pointless torture of dealing with them. Difficult because I'm impatient and it takes a huge amount of energy for me to pay decent attention to one person, especially if I have to sit there and smile-nod at all their stupid comments/complaints. It's increasingly difficult if I finally say something I want to say and they stare at me blankly and/or say back to me what I think isn't right. Not that it isn't true, it isn't right. Sometimes I do mix up my facts and to me that's very stressful and embarrassing. It doesn't matter how trial the information was I gave incorrectly, even if I told them I wasn't sure about it. I hate it if I say something incorrect- it keeps me up at night. The whole experience is draining.

So, from that, for me and in my opinion, I would be a horrible leader. I never want to lead, I can't hardly stand people as it is. I have very few friends and no romantic interests. I've never even been on an official date, people have asked, but I'm not interested at all or whatsoever. I don't know if there's an adequate way to explain this. I'm already feeling exasperated and I'm sure it's obvious. In comparison to "normal" people when I say I CAN be 100% introverted... I don't think it's that much of an exaggeration.
 
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Linsejko

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What am I trying to do, Zero?

--

An interesting distinction, WJW, but I feel as if true leadership cannot be completely divorced from management. I agree that some people seem to be put off from leadership because of the management aspect, and that they are looking at it the wrong way, for sure. But at the very least, a leader manages those to whom he delegates.

A very interesting point, also, about Grant. I find his personality so compelling. That Lincoln recognized him in that time is a huge mark for my favorite president.

.L
 
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EditorOne

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There's another story about Grant, about "Grant's lieutenant." He reportedly had one lieutenant on staff who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Whenever an order of serious import had to go out, Grant would have that lieutenant read the order and explain to him what had to be done because of the order. If it was what Grant had in mind, the order was distributed to the appropriate commanders. If the not-so-bright lieutenant didn't get it, the order was rewritten until he did.

It may be an untrue story. On the other hand, anyone who has ever read a U.S. Army five-paragraph field order knows that the concept of "understood by the least capable" is one of the army's key concerns and is just about spelled out in policy. That Grant would have been ahead of the curve in finding a down-home way to get to the same place is not surprising.
 

Melkor

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To be honest, I think I'd make a good leader, at least on paper anyway.
In real life, I wouldn'e be able to cope with the affects of my actions.

So i would be a good dictator, but in terms of democracy, I'd be better off lurking beside the real leader and controlling his every move.
 

Ermine

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To be honest, I think I'd make a good leader, at least on paper anyway.
In real life, I wouldn'e be able to cope with the affects of my actions.

So i would be a good dictator, but in terms of democracy, I'd be better off lurking beside the real leader and controlling his every move.

Yeah, it would be interesting to play Big Brother and rule through the media.
 

Radioactive_Springtime

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People tell me I have the charisma to be a leader. I'm decent at motivating people. But I never wanted to be a leader of anything outside a fantasy. I once gave a persuasive speech about fascist tendencies in the American government, completely improvised. I was told I have a strikingly similar style as Adolf Hitler, which disturbed me. Seems I bang my hands and start to yell near the end of the speech. Though as a leader I get commonly compared to Castro, so I'm also afraid of what I'd do as a leader, sacrificing my principals and whatnot. From what I've read, and I may be wrong, It's not very INTPish.

*seems its not so different if I had taken the time to read the rest of the posts*
 

Linsejko

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Yeah, I just wrote a vague outline of a 15 minute speech for a class yesterday.

In 15 minutes.

And then accidentally deleted it, and so ended up improvising on memory of what I had written. xD

Always a good time. I am told I have a very strong emotional force in my speaking; it helped that I cared about what I was talking about. Honestly, I always wanted to try acting... I feel I could get into character & detach myself from my own reality very easily.

.L
 

Ermine

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People tell me I have the charisma to be a leader. I'm decent at motivating people. But I never wanted to be a leader of anything outside a fantasy. I once gave a persuasive speech about fascist tendencies in the American government, completely improvised. I was told I have a strikingly similar style as Adolf Hitler, which disturbed me. Seems I bang my hands and start to yell near the end of the speech. Though as a leader I get commonly compared to Castro, so I'm also afraid of what I'd do as a leader, sacrificing my principals and whatnot. From what I've read, and I may be wrong, It's not very INTPish.

*seems its not so different if I had taken the time to read the rest of the posts*

On the contrary, it's a great thing to have a similar style to Hitler. He was only horrible because of what he did afterwards in murdering millions and taking advantage of a nation or few. The reason why he ever got enough power to do what he did was because of his oratory skills. He did more than just say what Germany wanted to hear. By the way, apart from the words, he had a gift for riling up a crowd with the yelling and hand banging and other gestures. He had pictures taken of himself while he was speaking for those purposes. It was deliberate and it worked. I'm certainly not pardoning him, but consider yourself flattered. The only things disturbing about Hitler are the things he did with his power.

Same kind of thing with Castro. He's only considered bad because of what he did with his power, not the fact that he had talent. Just because you're compared to Castro doesn't mean you'll be like Castro.

Use your powers for good!
 

Linsejko

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Castro actually rocked in his early years, you know. He was well loved, and overturned a terrible oppressive regime, or something like that. Been years since I read about him, so don't ask me for the details- wikipedia is your best friend.

Even today, Castro is well loved by many Cubans, you know.

.L
 

Aphasia

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L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P
)))))))____))))))))
))___/ 0 0 \___ )))
))\__________/ ))))
))))))))))))))))))))))

I am pretty certain that I'll suck as badly in leadership as the boat I made above. I can handle individual encounters and small groups of people reasonably well, but put me in command, and I'll sink like an aerodynamic stone. Still, it's not too hard to imagine an INTP leader. It's just hard to imagine one who really likes leading.
 

EditorOne

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Almost all leadership is small-group leadership, of 5-12 people. Seems to be genetically hard wired into us. Our organizations are set up in hierarchies so each level leverages the leadership, if you catch my drift. I'm the top leadership person a newsroom with 35 people, but I don't lead 35 people: I lead a cadre of five leaders who each manage 3-9 people themsleves. The CEO of our chain doesn't manage the thousands of people employed at all our newspapers; he leads eight publishers.

Eventually it all gets down to a scale even an INTP finds comfortable: Small numbers of people you know very well.
 

Aphasia

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Our organizations are set up in hierarchies so each level leverages the leadership, if you catch my drift. I'm the top leadership person a newsroom with 35 people, but I don't lead 35 people: I lead a cadre of five leaders who each manage 3-9 people themsleves. The CEO of our chain doesn't manage the thousands of people employed at all our newspapers; he leads eight publishers.

I'm suddenly thinking of pyramid schemes =.=" (or to be precise, the inverse pyramid-shaped hierarchy of retail businesses, but pyramid scheme sounds better)

Eventually it all gets down to a scale even an INTP finds comfortable: Small numbers of people you know very well.

Didn't really think of it that way. If that's the case, maybe even I'll like leading a little. Still, being at the top of something on a scale like that would make me uncomfortable.
 

Linsejko

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I dunno. I can imagine an INTP being comfortable of being in charge of something that large a scale; I imagine the "S" types would have more trouble being disconnected from so much of what they lead, while the "N" types would be much more comfortable at a distance.

At least, that's what I'd imagine.

.L
 

alierae

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I think the thinking part of our personalities enables us to develop the best way to get a job done while working with a group. Therefore, I believe that INTP's are great leaders!!
 

strangeguy

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Well, i dont like to be a leader.
Though i sort of understand people inside out cause i will analyse them inside out
but i cant handle them.
i just hate people.
i like to be the mastermind in the dark,
thats all i like.
SO i think the failure to handle people is
one of our greatest downfall in being a leader.
 

Dr. Why

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I usually shy away from being the direct leader, more often than not though I end up being the ideas man behind the leader. Really, I like this better because I feel secure that the end results of my descisions don't reflect directly on me, therefore allowing me more room to experiment with different ideas for different problems.
 

Jesin

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Why, thank you for that explanation. I think it fits me pretty well.

(I made this post partly for that pun.)
 

Wisp

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*punches Jesin*
 

Jesin

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Ow!

This is no place for fighting. Wanna take this to the "Kill the last poster!" thread?
 

Wisp

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But that was a VERY bad pun. *Glares*
 

Linsejko

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Let's try and not get too chatty on the thread. If side comments must be made, justify them by adding them to the end of a legitimate post to someone else.

(I still can't find the pun, btw. o.O;;)

Strangeguy- do you really 'hate' people? Just, that simply?

.L
 
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Olba

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Strangely enough, I would point you out to an anime called Death Note. There is a character, more specifically a detective, called L. Basically, he is the single man capable of moving all the police forces of the world whenever he pleases to do so. What makes him interesting, it's been long established that L is an INTP. Therefore, as he is the leader of the investigation going on in the anime, I think he makes a good example of an INTP leader.

What do they look like? Damn fine.

Is it just me or do I see a hint of Will Smith in this?

The way I see it, leading is controlling, if you're smart enough.

This is true to some extent. However, to what extent depends on how you see control. For example, if I hint that you should do something and you end up doing it because I hinted about it, would I have controlled you into doing it?

But more than anything, a leader without control over his subjects is a bad leader. After all, leaders are chosen because they are seen as capable of keeping the unity of the group and therefore decrease the amount of extremely stupid decisions. I think there was some saying about groups and stupidity, right? Or something.

Anyhow, I've been in the position of being the head admin of a gaming forum with almost 10,000 members. It was hell. I don't know where to begin describing the fact that I simply couldn't deal with it. The expectations were ludicrous. It seemed as though the populace of that forum sought a cult leader, which they despised if he tried to lead them. As far as I see it, my role was meant to be that of a leader of the large moderation team, which is more reasonable, yet still impossible for me to manage effectively without some sort of breakdown. I quit before I had one.

I guess I would then be a sort of an exception to the rule. Currently, I'm a moderator on a forum with close to 5,000 members, out of which only a handful are actively posting. However, I personally applied for the position of a moderator. And I did it twice. The way I see it, the forum needs capable and active leaders who actually care about the image of the forum. When I applied, one of the reasons I gave as to why I should be chosen was change and how the forum needs some.

However, due to my rather extreme strictness, in one of the two sections that I have under my wing, I'm seen as almost an over-protective moral police. That is, since the aforementioned sub-forum is mainly filled with random discussion and forum games, I usualy delete all posts that break the rules and tend to question the necessity of certain games or topics.

However, unlike most of the other moderators, I've actually picked up a few notices from the guidelines given to the new moderators. One of those things is the aforementioned strictness about rules. Another good example would be extremely trigger-happiness. That is, I like to punish the members. If I see an opportunity at infracting or warning a user, I will use it. If I get really lucky, the user will reply to the auto-PM with an angry, irrational response and I get to infract them once or twice more. However, you cannot really say that I'm merciless. I usually point the new folk towards reading the rules before posting and thinking about the necessity of their topic before posting.

In conclusion, I like being a moderator. That is, I'm of the lowest rank in all of the staff. Above me are the Smods, who are universal moderators, then there are the admins and the head admins, which are pretty much the big folk in the forum. However, I would like it if I was an Smod, as it would give me power over the Moderators, but it would keep my decisions in the shadow so that I don't get the spotlight.

Cabbo, leading is directing, and further, good leadership is directing so as to attain the maximum benefit for the group being led. (That is how I see it, at least.)

I think you're wrong. That is, about the maximum profit part. Groups have goals, usually. However, there are also things such as religious groups and the like, who don't get any real benefit from their activity and are at a constant risk of being disbanded by the authorities. However, I would say that good leadership means prioritizing the right things, but without ignoring the consequences.

In my own experience, I'm not likely to be chosen as the leader. However, most of the time I'm more angry about the whole group aspect than anything else. That is, if I am picked as a leader, I usually make it clear that I am the leader and they are the ones who are being led. Therefore, I demand near-absolute loyalty from those I lead. If I end up being picked as a leader, it's mainly because I'm a good speaker. And I'm not afraid of facing the criticism of the people I talk to.

In a larger scale, if I were to be picked as a leader, most likely I would pick myself a spokesperson of sorts. That is, a person who does all the talking and the public stuff, while I do all the actual work. Of course, it would have to be in such a way that it cannot be connected to myself, or it would be a worthless waste of time. This way of working results in a detached feeling, even though I am leading something. If I had to appear in the public, I would obviously choose the position of the advisor of the leader. This is still assuming that I am the actual leader, of course. However yes, I would still rather have the position of an advisor rather than that of a common follower. Mainly because it would allow me to criticize the leader's actions and to influence them with my way of thinking.
 

Linsejko

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But more than anything, a leader without control over his subjects is a bad leader. After all, leaders are chosen because they are seen as capable of keeping the unity of the group and therefore decrease the amount of extremely stupid decisions.
I disagree. I believe a good leader is capable of teaching those under him to be wise in their autonomy. This would 'decrease the amount of extremely stupid decisions' drastically more than trying to stop each one by heavy handed individual basis control, but further, it would develop trust & create loyalty, without ever demanding it.

Your form of leadership sounds very unattractive to me.

.L
 
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Olba

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I disagree. I believe a good leader is capable of teaching those under him to be wise in their autonomy. This would 'decrease the amount of extremely stupid decisions' drastically more than trying to stop each one by heavy handed individual basis control, but further, it would develop trust & create loyalty, without ever demanding it.

Individuals can be and are wise. However, groups are never wise.

And waiting for the trust and loyalty to develop takes too much time. Not to mention that there are cases where it does not develop. I, for one, don't trust people, nor am I ever loyal to anyone except myself. Therefore, I don't fit in a group.

Your form of leadership sounds very unattractive to me.

Well, it's not like I'm chosen as a leader of anything that often, specially not at my age. However, I guess the gap between the leader and his subjects, from my point of view, comes from my desire to isolate myself from the group.

And it's not like I volunteer to be a leader at anything. The only times I've volunteered at being a leader or a speciality in any way in any group have all been times when the group hasn't been able to decide or nominate a candidate. And obviously, if I'm nominated and chosen, I need to do something about the present lack of order. Therefore, I take charge. But I still don't like being a leader.
 

Wisp

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A good charismatic leader will submerge himself in his underlings.
 

Kidege

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If I've learned something about leadership, it's never letting them know you don't like doing it. That and helping them believe they lucked out with you.

I'm an extreme I but I can state my ideas pretty well. I end up in leadership positions again and again.

The underlings are very rarely your friends. They need something from you. It's interest. Awful and logical.

My ENTJ mother's currently grooming me for leadership. How to break stalemates, how to appeal to emotion, how to make them feel important. It gives me headaches, but she's taken the "if no one else can do it, it's your duty" approach and that works with me these days.

What I've never, ever stomached and hope I'll never will, is deliberately lying when negotiating. Thankfully mother dear's an ethical kind of politician.

Heh, sounds like I'm preparing for government. It's just a few research teams and classes I teach. I just need them to go smoothly.
 

Devercia

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Strangely enough, I would point you out to an anime called Death Note. There is a character, more specifically a detective, called L. Basically, he is the single man capable of moving all the police forces of the world whenever he pleases to do so. What makes him interesting, it's been long established that L is an INTP. Therefore, as he is the leader of the investigation going on in the anime, I think he makes a good example of an INTP leader.

He is a good example of what an INTP leader can be if he is supported by people-pushers(Chief Yagumi) and liaisons(Watari.) Alone he would probably be a complete hermit and impotent in life like so many INTPs are. I'd never thought I would say this, but INTPs need people.

I often find myself in leadership positions. It is rare that I give orders unless it is to focus problem solving and brainstorms of others("lets talk about this.") Most of my leadership experience is a directer of intent. I find many people have good things to do for the group, but no reason to use their talents(or are coerced into not using them), or have an understanding of a problem but feel "If it isn't broken, don't fix it." I also note that lower end people are more than just cogs, not morally, but intellectually. The middle man supervisors usually give a distorted image to higher ups that the cogs can see as false, but the higher up can't.

I am defiantly a macromanager. I play a game called Battlemaster, a sort of online textbased roleplay game. As the ruler of a nation I find it interesting how my subordinates get things done and how we interact. I do deal with some supervision issues but the local lords are pretty much autonomous and only deal with me on inter-region issues. The realm-wide day to day issues are managed by an ISTJ (who is a mix of high-judge and spymaster as well as a liaison to what is effectively a papacy). It which works out beautifully.
 

grey matters

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ENTP'S do make good leaders. My husband is a cub scout leader and the boys flock to him like he is the pied piper. His leadership faults are that he pushes people too far and is not a good listener when it comes to people's feelings. To him, people's feelings are minor compared to the big picture.
I have heard a lot on the subject of servant leadership. I think this style of leadership might work best for an INTP.
here are the names of a few books I have just gotten from Amazon on the subject.

"Journey to the East" by Herman Hesse
"the servant" by James C Hunter
Robert Greenleaf (I believe that is the guy's name) also wrote extensively on the subject
 

eudemonia

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I agree Grey Matters, Greenleaf's work is great and is very much come into its time.

for what its worth I thought I might add a few questions - I'd be interested in people's replies.

You can't have leadership without followership. What is followership? Why do people follow others? Do they follow others today for the same reasons that they might have followed a leader at the beginning of the 20th century?

does the type of leadership that's required change according to the situation? What type of leadership style is needed today, amongst so-called Generation Y? What type of leadership tends to work best during periods of vast change and what type leadership works in periods of stablilty?

If leadership is rooted in relationship, what are the strengths and weaknesses of an INTP leader?
 

grey matters

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Stephen Covey has written some great books on the subject of leadership. I forgot to mention them in my last post.

"The 8th habit" and "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective people" Both by Stephen Covey

The 8th habit deals more with systems and leadership but you may have to read the 7 habits book to understand the 8th habit book. Eudemonia, these books could help answer your questions.
I read in other books (I don't watch much tv and do video games so I have a bit of extra time) that some of the strengths of INTP's are teaching (in certain conditions, usually not children) understanding complicated interconnected systems, and the ability to encourage independance in others.
 

Aurora

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My favorite type of leadership is the kind Ender Wiggin has in Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. There are some great quotes, but the general idea of it is that Ender is so brilliant/unmotivated by selfish desire/loyal that his followers are fiercely loyal to him. They know that he recognizes them for their strengths and would never ask of them anything he would not give of himself.

When I think about my past, I haven't been very good in leadership roles. Even when put into a leadership role, I end up letting someone else take over. People don't naturally look to me for direction.

I feel a lot more comfortable in a small group/team in which all of us respect/admire each other and value each others' thoughts and opinions.
 

Taylored

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Accusations of arrogance and the reality of emotional disconnect are often pitfalls for INTPs who find themselves in leadership positions. "Find themselves," because, yes, I think we tend not to seek it out. I'm editor of a newspaper because, after the previous editor left, I had a choice as the number two guy of seeking the number one post for myself or running the risk corporate would bring in a complete jackanapes who would upset everything built here in the last nine years. I've worked for anal retentives and don't want to take orders from them any more, (at one place we had to peg out our budget projections to three decimal points. I mean, really). I opted to seek the editor's job rather than face the turmoil of adjusting to yet another detail-oriented, beady-eyed, pinch-faced sour misanthrope. It fits with one of the more useful paradigms I've embraced, that sometimes you don't actually solve problems, you merely substitute other problems you'd rather deal with.

A big drawback is dealing with emotion-based personalities. That can lead to serious trouble unless you enlist the help of a trusted associate to cue you what to do with those folks, who, after all, are no more to blame for the way they operate than we are and are entitled to respect and consideration.

This is the same reason I recently took a leadership role with the company I work for. I was at a point where I could be stuck with a manager I can hardly tolerate for another year or two, or I could take a promotion to lead an office 1800 miles away from my home. I do not generally seek leadership positions, but this is the second time I have found myself in such a situation because I had to make a choice between taking on extra responsibilities, or taking illogical orders from a workplace superior. This position, of course, was also enticing because of the distance from home... now I have an 1800 mile buffer from everyone I know :)

I think INTPs make good leaders. I think XNTJs make better leaders because they are much more organized on average, but INTPs have plenty to bring to the table if you can get them out from behind that wall they are hiding behind.
 

Agent Intellect

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i think that coming up with ideas, discussing them with people and coming up with the best plan of action, giving the order and having it carried out by my underlings would be great, but i don't think i could put up with peoples petty bickering and emotional instability.
 
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