# Join me in achieving self-discipline?

##### Well-Known Member
Hello aliens,

I had a thought. I've been working on improving my self-discipline lately. I've tried a variety of techniques - some have worked quite well.

One technique that occurred to me lately was that it would be useful to reach out to the community, here, and see if I can't find some partners in the quest to become more disciplined. I think that discussing my progress here would be a useful way to not only keep up with the friends I've made here on INTPf, and exercise socialization in a productive manner...but also, I know that it will give me a sense of accountability.

Are there any things you need to work on regarding self-discipline? Any goals you have?

Here are mine:
(1) Wake up at the same time every morning
(2) Score 80% or higher a day*

* I rate myself. My thoughts on how well I'm doing are what I would be sharing here.

What are you doing to achieve them?
Would you like to feel like friends here on the forum are helping to hold you somewhat accountable?

I’m with you!

#### moody

##### Active Member
The other day I submitted a tape! I had to do it in one take, and even though it wasn’t perfect, I still Did it!
Now to learn all my rep on time... ahah....

#### Elen

##### Cold and damp

Alright, I'll bite. Other than waking up on time what else are you working on?

#### peoplesuck

##### caretaker of machines
Fair enough.
IMO self discipline is like a muscle. All it really takes is doing something you dont want to do, every single day.
Also imo, cold showers are the best place to start. here is why:
They fucking suck
miserable physically and mentally
afterwards you feel amazing and they are very good for you mentally and physically
also showering should be a part of your daily routine already, so no real change.

there is no reason not to take cold showers every morning, if you do actually care about self discipline.
and those days you feel terrible, when you wake up feeling cold in your bones, those are the most important days, dont skip your cold shower. suffer
ime, these things will become natural, you will desire more and more resistance, you will start to enjoy the grind. or have a heart attack and give up XD

jokes aside, I will take this venture with you. Social pressure, or just having people hold you accountable is supposedly important for keeping up routines. not my cup of tea, but im always down to try anything once. (sips tea)
so im taking a cold shower, in a couple of minutes.
eek.
always remember it gets easier.
also remember how many times you have fucked up and failed is good motivation.
how many times you were weak.
>:O
dont be sorry
be better

#### moody

##### Active Member
@peoplesuck
There are certain advantages and disadvantages to cold showers. They wake you up, yes, and they're far better for your hair. However, warm water is therapeutic to muscle soreness, and any injuries. Hot water is also more sanitary.
Cold showers do require a sort of calmed mind where you accept your physical state.

Social pressure, or just having people hold you accountable is supposedly important for keeping up routines.
We are unreliable narrators in our own lives. Outside perspectives can bonk us on the head. Unfortunately, we are all too "polite" of a society to tell people the truth, sometimes. If you don't have people to do this for you, I've heard that setting timers has helped with task management. That, and writing extensively in planners or in journal entries.

#### peoplesuck

##### caretaker of machines
@moody I agree with everything you said.
I didnt mean to imply only taking cold showers.
but at the least, start your day with one.

##### Well-Known Member
@Elen
I felt like this was better for a public thread - my diary is really where I would go to post opinions when I'm more or less talking to myself, and not obligating others to respond. XD
This is more like a community thing.

One of the things I want to do is make sure that I put in 4 hrs of work daily for clients. I've cut back on my workload a bit to make room for my other projects, but my organization for clients is starting to fall through.

The other objective is to wake up regularly at the same time, and establish a more "strict" morning routine. Just a more regular one, really. One that I don't think about. Making my bed every morning is a biggy. It usually just ends up in a huddle of blanket stuff and then I'll often make it at night...right before I sleep! What a waste! XD

I don't want to put too much on my plate at once, because I know that's a surefire way for me to get overly excited about the changes, and then quickly burned out. So:

(1) Wake up, Make bed
(2) Cold shower, Morning Routine
(3) Two hours of morning work
(4) Two hours of late afternoon work

and lets add into this for good measure:

(5) Walk with dog

My dog doesn't need walks from me daily anymore at this point in my life because (A) She gets a lot of activity from my parents, as I live here during the winter (B) She's able to be outside off-leash, and interact with other dogs/animals we have, and (C) With a few exceptions, she absolutely loathes walking, and she hates me with her eyes every time I suggest it.

My dog utterly fails as a fitness friend. If she was allowed to gorge herself, she would be 200 lbs. As it stands, though, I'm scrupulous about my pets' diets. Well...not the orange cat. He has issues. But, anyways, despite being a very healthy dog for her age, and being the ideal weight, and having access to the wealth of Mother Nature practically from her doorstep - by dog despises all forms of effort, and her greatest joy in life is to climb on top of the double-stacked dog beds when I'm vacuuming, because one $100 dog bed just simply isn't enough luxury to satisfy her. She's like a princess, born into a pack of wolves. We're not very big into superficial comforts in this family. Oh. I got distracted. Sorry. Yeah - anyways, she sucks at the walk thing. At least here, where she can walk unleashed, I don't have to actually drag her around the block to walk with me. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member @peoplesuck This is an EXCELLENT idea! I never actually stopped to think about self-discipline this way. How you can become addicted to the challenge - but it's definitely true. I know when I'm in the mood, I love to set myself extreme goals and try to achieve them. I never thought of using cold showers as a way to trigger that mindset, but I can FEEL IT that it would WORK! What an amazing insight! Thank you Peoples! Thank you! I'm so going to try this. I can already feel my skin crawling! XD Just one edit though - and one which incorporates @moody's point as well. What I will do is to start off the showers warm, and then transition to the cold water. I'm going to do that because I used to take showers like that when I was in college and they were definitely invigorating. I did it to shock my hair (it makes it shiny). I also did it because it would dry out my skin the least possible amount, first because it lessens the exposure to warm water, but secondly, because it discourages rapid evaporation post-shower. I'm going to put that shower back into the works - because I don't think I have the confidence to sustain cold-start showers, first off. I think my lazy nature will win out over the end. Secondly, I think my body might be wired a bit different from yours. You're probably fairly hot-blooded, but when I get cold I can stay that way for the entire day and my finger get inflexible and my fingernails go blue. I can't type like that. So if I'm going to expose myself to cold water, I need to do it in a short enough time bracket that it doesn't really "sink in to my bones", and its better if I start from a warmer body temperature and go to a colder one. Plus - as moody said, there's the advantages of hot water to consider. Anyways! This is an excellent tip - and one I never would have thought of! I'm really excited about it! Are you going to be self-disciplined with me? We can post evidence here of a job well done. What are your goals Peoples? Moody - do you have goals you want to pursue? #### peoplesuck ##### caretaker of machines I shall try. atm my goal will be cold shower every morning. for me " if you value discipline, you should take cold showers" hit home. For me its true, and the type of thing that would motivate me to actually do it. So im eating better, reducing sugar intake, and cold showers. today Ive done well with everything so check the box for today [x] #### Elen ##### Cold and damp Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member @moody I agree with everything you said. I didnt mean to imply only taking cold showers. but at the least, start your day with one. Well damn! That actually sounds like a really good idea. Although I think I il Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. Interesting. I might check that out. I do utilise a lot of alarms but I like your idea to do alarms for certain things. I used to do that but that habit fell by the wayside. I agree that in order to master self-discipline (which is probably somewhat impossible) - you need to establish habits. Self-restraint and delayed gratification are something of a non-renewable resources. Only habits can provide consistency without overtaxing a person, because they represent a low neurological cost. I have a sometimes pooch who adds flavor. He’s my brothers dog and he likes me better <3 Sorry, I’m bragging. But he’s my pal. We really click. I get him a lot because he’s a rehabilitated “trouble dog”, and I’m the lady that likes that sort of thing. Kind of like...my attraction to troubled people XD... I feel like a psychologist would have fun with this. But my Max isn’t here with me atm - he’s with his “real family” - and one our older dogs had a hard enough time adjusting to my new cats and my dog. A puppy would be great for my dog, but not for the senior of the house. He’s too old for all that action. Boy just needs a nice, quiet, comfortable life & casual hikes with his dad. (My dad. He’s my dog brother.) Old age is ruff. My dog - on the other hand - despite being old she has no excuse. She’s fit as a fiddle and has “beautiful blood” according to the vet. (I take full credit. Jk. Only 60% credit) But she’s always been lazy. Honestly, maybe it’s not such a bad thing. She doesn’t have any kind of joint problems - which makes sense - because she then as little as possible, and only when made to do so. Lol. I have to come to terms with the fact that she’s older >_>....It will be sad. I’m hoping for another 2 years at least, because she’s in such great condition for an elderly dog, and I think the breed statistics are skewed when it comes to longevity estimates, because most people with this breed have obese dogs, and I’m proud to say that Kia has never been overweight. Well...okay. Once. But not by much. It really confused me and I took her to the vet to see if she had hypothyroidism only to layer discover that my then boyfriend was getting drunk and having “midnight munchies” with her in the basement - mozerella sticks and such. I’m one of the only people on this planet that is able to resist her powers of persuasion, and she preys in intoxicated people. Honestly, cops would not need a breathalizer if they had this dog. They could judge a person’s drunkness based on how cute she becomes. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member I shall try. atm my goal will be cold shower every morning. for me " if you value discipline, you should take cold showers" hit home. For me its true, and the type of thing that would motivate me to actually do it. So im eating better, reducing sugar intake, and cold showers. today Ive done well with everything so check the box for today [x] What are you striving for atm? What’s your end goal? #### peoplesuck ##### caretaker of machines I shall try. atm my goal will be cold shower every morning. for me " if you value discipline, you should take cold showers" hit home. For me its true, and the type of thing that would motivate me to actually do it. So im eating better, reducing sugar intake, and cold showers. today Ive done well with everything so check the box for today [x] What are you striving for atm? What’s your end goal? just being healthier in general. 50% health reasons 50% not degrading my health for a thing that was engineered to be addicting. I refuse to be so predictable and mindless. "I refuse to let you kill me, on principal!" My life is a mess, in more ways than one. The general goal is to stop fucking about, and actually do something meaningful, or at the very least, enjoy my meaningless meandering! much to decide much to think about Measuring time is critical, for being efficient. if you dont measure time, you never realize how much of it you waste. #### Happy ##### sorry for english A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. I was going to mention this book in this thread for the same reason. It’s a fucking excellent book. Get it. Read it. Live it. #### Grayman ##### Team Ignorant Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. Is that like the 'fake it until you make it' argument? Personally I think showering and brusging is for losers! It's not like habits ever advanced mankind. I got better things to do with my time... I would explain more but I am kind of thinking of taking a nap right now. #### Grayman ##### Team Ignorant A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. I was going to mention this book in this thread for the same reason. It’s a fucking excellent book. Get it. Read it. Live it. It's an audible book as well for those who are being too productive to sit down and read! #### Elen ##### Cold and damp Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. Is that like the 'fake it until you make it' argument? Personally I think showering and brusging is for losers! It's not like habits ever advanced mankind. I got better things to do with my time... I would explain more but I am kind of thinking of taking a nap right now. Meh, "fake it till you make it" is just another way of saying "practice". I'm definitely not in the cold shower camp. I'd rather just workout every day and reap the benefits of exercise. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member I shall try. atm my goal will be cold shower every morning. for me " if you value discipline, you should take cold showers" hit home. For me its true, and the type of thing that would motivate me to actually do it. So im eating better, reducing sugar intake, and cold showers. today Ive done well with everything so check the box for today [x] What are you striving for atm? What’s your end goal? [/QUOTE] just being healthier in general. 50% health reasons 50% not degrading my health for a thing that was engineered to be addicting. I refuse to be so predictable and mindless. "I refuse to let you kill me, on principal!" My life is a mess, in more ways than one. The general goal is to stop fucking about, and actually do something meaningful, or at the very least, enjoy my meaningless meandering! much to decide much to think about Measuring time is critical, for being efficient. if you dont measure time, you never realize how much of it you waste. [/QUOTE] Hmm...You should come up with a goal of who you want to be in x amount of time. Otherwise, it's just productivity for productivity's sake - and I think that's hard to maintain on a consistent basis. Most people, I think, do career/education/economic goals - but if that's not your thing...maybe a hobby. Not sure. For me at least, I need to feel like there's a reason for my life. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. I was going to mention this book in this thread for the same reason. It’s a fucking excellent book. Get it. Read it. Live it. Ohh! My excitement is building. Thanks for the double endorsement. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. Is that like the 'fake it until you make it' argument? Personally I think showering and brusging is for losers! It's not like habits ever advanced mankind. I got better things to do with my time... I would explain more but I am kind of thinking of taking a nap right now. Lol And yeah - you read my mind. No pun intended. I can't stand reading books. They give me anxiety. It feels too much like a waste of time. I'd rather be listening to a book, and doing mundane life things simultaneously. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member Habits are a better thing to focus on. I feel like the rigid adherence required of Discipline with a capital D is something practically everyone is doomed to fail at. Habits though, habits are easier. Either way, find you a new dog addition. It might help liven up your current pooch. Set an alarm reminder to make your bed. Set a specific number of clients you wish to take care of and set a time frame for achieving that. Then, don't get distracted. A lady I know has been chatting me up about a book called Atomic Habits by James Clear. Might be worth a read. Disclaimer: I have not read it. Is that like the 'fake it until you make it' argument? Personally I think showering and brusging is for losers! It's not like habits ever advanced mankind. I got better things to do with my time... I would explain more but I am kind of thinking of taking a nap right now. Meh, "fake it till you make it" is just another way of saying "practice". I'm definitely not in the cold shower camp. I'd rather just workout every day and reap the benefits of exercise. How long do you work out for? Working out makes me board, so when I'm on the ball in my life (not the exercise ball, I'm being rhetorical here) - I set 5 min workout timers in which I do sets. I'm not much of a cardio person. The animal kingdom did not have a runner in mind when I was constructed. I'd describe myself as more of...hmm...like - a plow horse. XD You know those mules that carry people's packs up the Grand Canyon? That would have been a great career path for me, had the brain thing not worked out. I could never get into working out like other people do - I hate the thoughts that fly through my head. They're distracting, and they make everything suck. BUT I do really enjoy various activities. Every once in a while I get the urge to seek out an empty basketball hoop or a big, vacant concrete wall for practicing tennis....but I don't. Because those things have people at them, and I'm embarrassed of my total lack of talent. Humiliation + socialization is not a good mix. I'd like to order some agility equipment though, so I can do agility with my brothers dog....and maybe do some wood splitting. I've not had that much experience with it - but it's really zen. There's something very satisfying about killing chunks of wood with an axe. That's all I can think of to do in the winter time. Well, maybe archery - but that's not really much of a work out, I think. I can't wait until VR gets better. #### moody ##### Active Member Moody - do you have goals you want to pursue? Taking the dive and memorizing more of my pieces. I used to be so good at memorization, and performing memorized, but at some point older musicians started psyching me out, and I've had major pitfalls in all of my memorized performances since. I literally become a deer in the headlights. In my last memorized performance, I literally ended up improvising 99% of the piece because I forgot *everything.* Competing more, and taking more auditions. I become too much of a perfectionist and talk myself out of a lot of opportunities, I suppose. #### Serac ##### A menacing post slithers my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues. this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them$50 every time you encounter this failure.

boom, problem solved.

what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one.

#### doncarlzone

##### Useless knowledge

I think of self discipline as a finite resource. If you want to change something in your life, you have to be aware of what habits led to what you want changed and, or, what habits you will need to adopt in order to make the change that you want.

Self discipline is required to adopt a new habit, but given that it is a finite resource, you want to be as efficient as possible when planning how to use it. I.e. if it is your goal to maintain a tidy room, you should create a system of habits allowing you to achieve this by spending as little self discipline as humanly possible. While it may be nice to have your underwear ironed, it would probably be stupid to waste your self discipline on that, as it is not a crucial component of attaining your overall goal. If you over load your self discipline (i.e. attempting to adopt too many habits at the same time), you will end up failing and burn out.

So, it is better to pick just a few habits you want to change/adopt and focus your self discipline on just those. After a while, some say 60 days, you will find that you slowly spend less and less self discipline, as you are establishing a new habit. Once achieved, you may move on to new habits.
___________

Concerning my own goals. I want to consistently push my social comfort zone just a little. This might sound weird, but the current habit I am trying to pursue is to approach people with dogs and ask if I might pet their dog. I do love dogs, and any occasion to pet one brings me joy, however, this is not the sole reason for this endeavor; I also find it a bit scary. It actually takes me courage to do it. But, and this is crucial for me, I think I just may have the courage to do it. Too often in my life, I have set goals that were scary, too scary, and thus I would end up failing thereby not pushing my boundaries at all.

It's like training a muscle. You want to push yourself just enough for it to trigger growth. And once you grow, your growth will manifest itself elsewhere in your life.

I use this method as I have recently found great success doing something similar where the effects transferred into many different aspects of my life. I'll just leave it at that, as nobody wants to read a success story.

A part from that, I use most of my self discipline to organize the writing of Master's thesis in Philosophy which is due in four months. At the moment the plan is to wake up, shower, and go to a library to read. This does take self discipline even though I am writing about something I am passionate about. I am a master procrastinator.

##### Well-Known Member
my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues.

this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them $50 every time you encounter this failure. boom, problem solved. what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one. My god. I think I would end up either being a black belt in Aikido or being homeless XD That’s if I had friends. I have one friend, but I don’t think she’d be willing to take money from me. It would be awkward and weird for her, and if it ever came down to it - she would feel really guilty, so I wouldn’t even bring it up, probably. I like the concept though. Extreme consequences. Nice #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member Moody - do you have goals you want to pursue? Taking the dive and memorizing more of my pieces. I used to be so good at memorization, and performing memorized, but at some point older musicians started psyching me out, and I've had major pitfalls in all of my memorized performances since. I literally become a deer in the headlights. In my last memorized performance, I literally ended up improvising 99% of the piece because I forgot *everything.* Competing more, and taking more auditions. I become too much of a perfectionist and talk myself out of a lot of opportunities, I suppose. Have you tried practicing meditation before you practice your pieces? Have you tried practicing immediately after you wake up? I ask because these are the two things I’ve done to try and help my own memory. My memory is abysmal. My brain gets so cluttered with thought, and if there’s emotion in the equation - like anxiety or pressure or self-consciousness, those things sidetrack me so I can’t thin straight. At least, I think less straight. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member Great thread. I think of self discipline as a finite resource. If you want to change something in your life, you have to be aware of what habits led to what you want changed and, or, what habits you will need to adopt in order to make the change that you want. Self discipline is required to adopt a new habit, but given that it is a finite resource, you want to be as efficient as possible when planning how to use it. I.e. if it is your goal to maintain a tidy room, you should create a system of habits allowing you to achieve this by spending as little self discipline as humanly possible. While it may be nice to have your underwear ironed, it would probably be stupid to waste your self discipline on that, as it is not a crucial component of attaining your overall goal. If you over load your self discipline (i.e. attempting to adopt too many habits at the same time), you will end up failing and burn out. So, it is better to pick just a few habits you want to change/adopt and focus your self discipline on just those. After a while, some say 60 days, you will find that you slowly spend less and less self discipline, as you are establishing a new habit. Once achieved, you may move on to new habits. ___________ Concerning my own goals. I want to consistently push my social comfort zone just a little. This might sound weird, but the current habit I am trying to pursue is to approach people with dogs and ask if I might pet their dog. I do love dogs, and any occasion to pet one brings me joy, however, this is not the sole reason for this endeavor; I also find it a bit scary. It actually takes me courage to do it. But, and this is crucial for me, I think I just may have the courage to do it. Too often in my life, I have set goals that were scary, too scary, and thus I would end up failing thereby not pushing my boundaries at all. It's like training a muscle. You want to push yourself just enough for it to trigger growth. And once you grow, your growth will manifest itself elsewhere in your life. I use this method as I have recently found great success doing something similar where the effects transferred into many different aspects of my life. I'll just leave it at that, as nobody wants to read a success story. A part from that, I use most of my self discipline to organize the writing of Master's thesis in Philosophy which is due in four months. At the moment the plan is to wake up, shower, and go to a library to read. This does take self discipline even though I writing about something I am passionate about. I am a master procrastinator. I’m glad you like my thread! Your philosophy is very similar to mine regarding self-discipline. The best way to exercise it is to figure out ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish without needing it. I've been learning, lately, though, that there are some habits that seem irrelevant to the goal that I have to learn to value. Making my bed, for instance. It shouldn’t matter, but at the end of the day - I think it does. There’s a channel I like to watch on YouTube occasionally called The Try Guys. I got into them because I research generational marketing as part of my job, and TTG is a big hit for younger audiences. I found I genuinely enjoyed their content though. They’re four men who set out to try things out of the blue - like wearing high heels or going dog sledding. They made a self help book that I bought and I liked quite a bit. Their philosophy is that you need to see failure as a good thing, in a way. You almost want to fail. Of course - you would rather succeed, but their argument is that the fear of failure is the main thing that holds people back from achieveing their potential. I think that’s an oversimplification, but it’s a good philosophy. Their content might not be mature enough for your tastes but if you’re looking for some younger humor, maybe check them out. Approaching dogs and their humans is definitely a good start. Is there something specific you’re looking to gain out of learning to be more sociable? #### Elen ##### Cold and damp How long do you work out for? Working out makes me board, so when I'm on the ball in my life (not the exercise ball, I'm being rhetorical here) - I set 5 min workout timers in which I do sets. I'm not much of a cardio person. The animal kingdom did not have a runner in mind when I was constructed. I'd describe myself as more of...hmm...like - a plow horse. XD ... I can't wait until VR gets better. On hectic days where I'm busy from the moment I get out of bed till roughly 7pm I run through a yoga routine after work. It helps to clear out the stupid running dialogue in my head. Other days when I'm less busy I focus on weight lifting. Not a lot. I'm not working on gains or anything. Just basic 10 to 15 minutes on upper body and another 10 to 15 minutes on lower as well as a 10 minute cardio warm up. FitnessBlender.com has a bunch of free workouts and it is easy to queue a few of them up. As for being bored, I mute the video and instead listen to an audiobook or music. Unless you have a specific health goal in mind I think that getting in some stretching (yoga) and some strength training on a routine basis (several times a week) will keep your body functional and healthy well into your old age. Even just walking a couple short miles a day makes a big difference. Yes, VR exercise would be amazing. The options now aren't great. This is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them$50 every time you encounter this failure.

boom, problem solved.
This is pretty brilliant really.

#### Grayman

##### Team Ignorant
my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues.

this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them $50 every time you encounter this failure. boom, problem solved. what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one. My god. I think I would end up either being a black belt in Aikido or being homeless XD That’s if I had friends. I have one friend, but I don’t think she’d be willing to take money from me. It would be awkward and weird for her, and if it ever came down to it - she would feel really guilty, so I wouldn’t even bring it up, probably. I like the concept though. Extreme consequences. Nice Well geeze if that's the problem, I'll be your friend! It seems like if money were really a sufficient means of incentive, making it would be better than losing it. #### Happy ##### sorry for english my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues. this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them$50 every time you encounter this failure.

boom, problem solved.

what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one.
There’s a variation on this where you can sign up for a service (I think stickk used to facilitate it, not sure if it still does) where you can stake your money to be donated to an anti-cause—something you don’t want to donate money to—like neo nazis or the KKK or whatever. Then when your friend judges you’ve failed, they authorise your money to be donated.

I’ve heard it’s even more effective.

#### Minuend

##### pat pat
What worked for me was always just doing something instead of thinking about whether I wanted to or deciding whether I wanted to. The minute you start thinking about whether you feel like doing something or want to, it's usually all downhill from there. Instead your mentality is centered around knowing you're going to do that something and whenever you're reminded of it, you're planning on how to execute it and when. Like it's already set in stone it's gonna happen.

I'm currently not doing something, which is quitting coffee. I think it might impact my digestion negatively, so I'm going to go without it for a while. Had the worst headaches for like 2 days, but day 4 and feel better. I really love my coffee, though, I miss it already

#### peoplesuck

##### caretaker of machines
All the pieces to the puzzle, imo:

I've been learning, lately, though, that there are some habits that seem irrelevant to the goal that I have to learn to value. Making my bed, for instance. It shouldn’t matter, but at the end of the day - I think it does.
The best way to exercise it is to figure out ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish without needing it.
What worked for me was always just doing something instead of thinking about whether I wanted to or deciding whether I wanted to. The minute you start thinking about whether you feel like doing something or want to, it's usually all downhill from there.
Everything @doncarlzone said was on point

want to consistently push my social comfort zone just a little. This might sound weird, but the current habit I am trying to pursue is to approach people with dogs and ask if I might pet their dog.
This is brilliant, and I will be stealing it.
what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one.
this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them $50 every time you encounter this failure. I will start something similar. my method will be giving outrageous tips whenever I fuckup. its easy to hand out money, easier than accomplishing tasks, the more you fuck up, the more important it is that you stop. because money. Plus it goes to a good cause. @moody putting things in perspective always helped me with scary tasks. Remembering that you will go home and life will continue, regardless. @Inexorable Username lightweight exercising is boring. If you exercise so hard you cant have thoughts, thats more enjoyable...erm...if you like that sort of pain <.< also archery can be zen, just get a recurve/longbow, modern bows are too aim oriented to be zen. also, if working out is boring, just bring an audiobook. walking on a treadmill, at a bit of an angle can be a lot of work. You know those mules that carry people's packs up the Grand Canyon? That would have been a great career path for me, had the brain thing not worked out. LMAO <3 ur2funny Most people, I think, do career/education/economic goals - but if that's not your thing...maybe a hobby. Not sure. For me at least, I need to feel like there's a reason for my life. Hmm...You should come up with a goal of who you want to be in x amount of time. Otherwise, it's just productivity for productivity's sake - and I think that's hard to maintain on a consistent basis. mhm, but what im aiming for isnt really a solid goal, its just, be better. I need to hit a healthy weight, which means losing about 40lbs. Im the most overweight I have ever been. Fun fact: I store fat extremely well! my love handles inex....they are full on handicap accessible at this point XD but my legs and arms are 100% muscle, only some stomach fat. TMI, im sorry. no im not Im just making sure Im doing better each day. And yeah - you read my mind. No pun intended. I can't stand reading books. They give me anxiety. It feels too much like a waste of time. I'd rather be listening to a book, and doing mundane life things simultaneously. Ah! but reading does so much more than listening. instead of reading for the sake of reading, (that is difficult) read to learn something. Also reading helps with focus, because if you are listening and doing xyz, well thats not very focused. You're probably fairly hot-blooded, but when I get cold I can stay that way for the entire day and my finger get inflexible and my fingernails go blue. Well, you are right, im about 10degrees warmer than your average supernova. HOWEVER, if you are cold to your core ( numb toes, taking hours to warm up) your shower is way too damn cold, or the duration is way too damn long. Despite what you would think, if its cold af outside, taking a quick cold shower, will give your body a new baseline, a much colder one, making that outside temperature not so bad. In my experience, you should start your shower as cold as you can (should never be cold enough to hurt your skin!) and time it, maybe 2minutes, then take your normal hot shower. If you want the best affects, use your morning cold shower simply for freezing and feeling better, not washing. I only once, felt cold as you described, it was winter, cold as the water would go, and I had a fan going to really make it bad. for science? or something. couldnt feel my feet for hours. I guess one solid goal I have, would be to make an irl friend. Ive been spoiled with these internet friends, I really have no desire for an irl friend. But social skills ps, you need them. 5 maor years of social isolation, plis? no, bad ps, leave your room! but i finally listened to jp and cleaned it! *aggressive noises* *waving hands* #### Elen ##### Cold and damp Wait. How can a person write so much and not enjoy reading?! #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member @Elen I used to do almost the exact same thing! No way?! The only difference is that mine was 10,10,10 - twice daily. Actually come to think of it, I think I did 10 minutes of stretching (5 to start, 5 to stop), and 10 each of upper body and lower body. That was when I was with my ex. I think I sort of got out of the habit of it. It was probably an attempt to be criticized less tbh -.- sort of pathetic. I agree with you about yoga and stretching! I do this quite a bit. To me, it’s almost more important than other forms of exercise because - you’re right - as you get older, you can get all sorts of injuries relating to not being flexible. You don’t get quite as few relating to not having strength. Here’s one things I do on an almost daily basis - have you given it a shot? I like to try to rotate hips and joints and such. I rotate my wrists and ankles, I do hip circles, I do rotations with my shoulders...and recently I learned from a friend who is a massage therapist that you should roll your knee caps too. I started doing that and they were very stiff and inflexible - now they’re a lot better. Knees have been an issue with me and I’ve never found anything that helped, or anyone that could figure out what is wrong - my knees get clicky when I do certain workouts - so i’m hoping this will help. I’m with you. I’m really, really looking forward to VR! It’s a little dorky, but I’m particularly looking foreword to VR Pokemon. I grew up on Pokemon and I don’t game very much - so Pokemon is one of the few things I’ve consistently played. I like hearing about your fitness habits. Makes me more motivated. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member Wait. How can a person write so much and not enjoy reading?! Lol! I have a lot of anxiety around being “not productive enough”. Reading sometimes freaks me out. I feel like I’m wasting time. I’ve been realising I have some deep seated issues regarding self-worth, which is ironic, because it’s coupled with a truly genuine sense of confidence, belief in myself, etc... But how do I put this... When I’m by myself, I feel great about myself and my life. When I’n With other people too much, I tend to end up feeling crappy, and I Can be selectively oversensitive. I think it makes me a pretty kind and understanding person, because I get where people are coming from when they feel insecure, but it also probably makes me a bit neurotic. I think when I took the Big 5 I ended up being quite neurotic. I’ve never been that good at reading. It makes me very tired very quickly. My attention drifts quickly. I get impatient with long-winded writers. Certain books like CS books are more interesting to me, but I don’t like vagueness. Anyways. When I read, I quickly start thinking to myself “This is stupid. You should be doing something that matters”. I’m also a person that’s too curious about everything and I’m always trying some kind of new thing. I try to limit that - and reading books is a “new thing”. I like reading scientific studies though. I do that for fun. #### Inexorable Username ##### Well-Known Member my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues. this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them$50 every time you encounter this failure.

boom, problem solved.

what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one.
There’s a variation on this where you can sign up for a service (I think stickk used to facilitate it, not sure if it still does) where you can stake your money to be donated to an anti-cause—something you don’t want to donate money to—like neo nazis or the KKK or whatever. Then when your friend judges you’ve failed, they authorise your money to be donated.

I’ve heard it’s even more effective.
Woah. That’s taking it too far. Making my bed every morning is not worth giving the KKK a twenty.

##### Well-Known Member
my method for achieving self-discipline stuff is extremely simple yet extremely effective, and it involves circumventing the whole issue of self-discipline. However, nobody likes it because everyone wants some sort of elegant, aesthetic, self-deterministic (and hence non-practical) solution to these issues.

this is my method: 1) define what a failure is in this endeavor (e.g. waking up later than 07:00 AM), 2) tell a friend you will pay them \$50 every time you encounter this failure.

boom, problem solved.

what I mean is that self-discipline is an issue of the rational brain disagreeing with the instinctive brain, which means that the most effective method must make the instinctive brain agreeing with the rational one.
My god. I think I would end up either being a black belt in Aikido or being homeless XD

That’s if I had friends. I have one friend, but I don’t think she’d be willing to take money from me. It would be awkward and weird for her, and if it ever came down to it - she would feel really guilty, so I wouldn’t even bring it up, probably.

I like the concept though. Extreme consequences. Nice
Well geeze if that's the problem, I'll be your friend! It seems like if money were really a sufficient means of incentive, making it would be better than losing it.
Lol! Well there is a productivity app I remember now that charges you for not doing things. Maybe I will check that out.

I really love my coffee, though, I miss it already
Aww. You miss it so much you went through the labor intensive effort to find the heartbreak emoji.
You poor soul. I feel for you. Can’t you try becoming a tea convert? It’s still caffeinated, but probably not as much.

they are full on handicap accessible at this point
Oh peoples. You’re hilarious.

Also reading helps with focus, because if you are listening and doing xyz, well thats not very focused.
It does, but I’ve found that you get better at listening to audiobooks over time. Also, I’ve found that if I incorporate them into my everyday life, I get more listening done than reading, and I end up thinking about the subject more than I do if I read.

your shower is way too damn cold, or the duration is way too damn long.
Well it’s not that bad if I build up body heat beforehand.

couldnt feel my feet for hours.
This happens to me on a regular basis, but it’s usually my toes that go numb.

i finally listened to jp and cleaned it!
*aggressive noises*
*waving hands*
Haha! Good ol’ Jp! Having a clean room is essential, I find. Not that my room is always clean - I have to really try to stay on the ball - but it’s one of the biggest things that impacts my worldview and my productivity.

##### Well-Known Member
So is anyone here willing to post their crossed off to-do lists with some notes on the progress they’ve made?

I’d like to do that, but not if I don’t have company

#### Animekitty

##### Well-Known Member
Yay! It's not just me. Okay here goes.

Generally I can never finish everything on my to-do list, so some things carry over. But having to rewrite them helps me not to forget. I'll post again with this either when I go to bed or tomorrow.

#### peoplesuck

##### caretaker of machines
Today had a freezing cold shower, timed it. only 1min 20sec water was so cold it actually hurt.
Started a 2 day water fast
doing spaced low rep exercises
I guess I will do before and after pics if I succeed?

##### Well-Known Member
Today had a freezing cold shower, timed it. only 1min 20sec water was so cold it actually hurt.
Started a 2 day water fast
doing spaced low rep exercises
I guess I will do before and after pics if I succeed?
I think it could help.

Just in case your interested - I have a broth fast that works wonders. You buy some gelatin or collagen. Stir this in to low sodium chicken or beef broth. Drink it hot. It's actually really nice, filling, and very satisfying. Excellent for curbing hunger. The nice thing is - if you're working out, it still has amino acids and such. I highly recommend it. I use it for 12 hour fasting.

Edit: I think it's only the gelatin that has a ton of amino acids...and be careful with it - because it can get sticky and gross if you overdose.

#### Elen

##### Cold and damp

Your handwriting is so clean and legible! That and your busy little lists give me hives. *shudder* Toooo much tidy thinking and organization for this INTP.

#### peoplesuck

##### caretaker of machines
Day 2 of water fasting
about to freeze my ass off
@Elen this if for you:

##### Well-Known Member

Your handwriting is so clean and legible! That and your busy little lists give me hives. *shudder* Toooo much tidy thinking and organization for this INTP.
Haha! Aww, thanks! This is something of a two day list for me because today I have to run into the airport and yesterday I wrote this list in the late afternoon.

I'm actually basking in this complement because every time I take pics of my writing I think it looks horrible. Also. The wording is cute. "Busy little lists". I like that. <3

My favorite part about my "busy little lists" is filling in the boxes. Its very satisfying and visually rewarding.

##### Well-Known Member
Day 2 of water fasting
about to freeze my ass off
@Elen this if for you:
Omg this is hilarious! I like the "Finish to-do list" to do list item. Is the first pic a reference to underpants gnomes?

##### Well-Known Member
Late start today you guys - but feeling positive and motivated!

For people who recommended Atomic Habits - THANK YOU!!!! This book is AMAZING!

#### Elen

##### Cold and damp
After recommending Atomic Habits I figured I should read it myself. I'm a fast reader (being a Literature major and Philosophy minor will do that to a person) and I'm about halfway through. I'm not sure I'll finish it because the book has already revealed it's driving point. I get it. I don't need a hundred more pages.

The premise is simple and there is nothing new about it but it IS a refreshing alternative to the all or nothing, succeed or fail, approach that is often pushed in self-help books.

I like it. The story about the British cycling team made me pause. It is something to try.

So, with that in mind I'm going to work on building better sleep habits. I'm not a list person because I have authority issues and the second I have a list presented to me I want to say fuck you and burn it.

However, I am going to make small but significant adjustments to my sleep habits. I will drink a mug of chamomile tea 30 minutes before bed and avoid screen time while I do. I will leave my phone in the kitchen when I go to bed so I don't have it tempting me at 3am during my insomnia episodes.

I'll report back in a week though you may have to remind me @Inexorable Username

Day 2 of water fasting
about to freeze my ass off
@Elen this if for you:
Get out of my head Peeps! Creeper.

##### Well-Known Member
Yes! Same here! That was really intriguing to me. I never thought of productivity in quite the same light.

I'm not a list person because I have authority issues and the second I have a list presented to me I want to say fuck you and burn it.
This cracked me up. I have serious authority issues too. I like lists though - I don't think I mind my own authority so much.

You really are a fast reader. Holy cow. I've gotten past the part where he's discussing how the system is what builds the habit - and the cue, response part. I'm curious though as to what his formula is for breaking down the system.

I think the cue-response aspect of his advice is one of the most important things though. He makes a very good point. In order for something to become ingrained and second-nature, having an actual cue really helps. Chamomile is a good cue for sleep - but what is the cue for Chamomile?

I've spent time thinking about the different kinds of cues and I've roughly broken it into two subtypes:
Logical
Emotional

Logical: Time, Sequence
Emotional: Feeling, State

Most people appear to, on average, have 6 time cues throughout their day. Waking up, Going to work, Eating Lunch, Going home, Eating Dinner, Going to bed. It may be that having more than 6 requires too much of a schedule - could be too tough for a person to stick to long-term. I'm going to try 6 time cues on for size, and I may do less, depending.

Sequence cues would be when you open a door in a dark room and then immediately turn on the light. I think this can be helpful for rituals regarding getting out of bed, or going to bed, or keeping a person's habitat clean. For instance, if you always brush your teeth right before crawling into bed - teeth becomes a sequence cue, and I think this is useful, because it's associated with a strong flavor as well. A white noise machine a could also be a powerful sequence cue. Turning on the machine directly before sleep could not only signal that it is time for sleep, but also provide an auditory, prolonged cue. I think that's my point - some cues engage the senses for a longer period of time, others are immediate.

Emotional cues I feel like involve a state of being or a feeling. So, if I see something that belonged to my ex-dog that my boyfriend essentially stole, I have an emotional reaction. A feeling from this would be "I feel angry" or "I feel depressed" and this becomes a cue for subsequent behavior - in my case, I watch things on YouTube that would cheer me up, or I look up cute animals or funny memes.

So if I break my habits down by these cues, I can identify which triggers lead to the most negative behavior, and circumvent that behavior before it starts. Maybe I decide that YT wastes too much time, so if I get the cue of the ex-boyfriend thing, I can program myself to do 5 minutes of mediation or stretching. Something that aligns with my goals in life.

One of the big things I need to master is getting in-sync with day-light cycles. I should be waking up when the sun comes out, and winding down when the sun goes down. I've always struggled with that - I'm a bit nocturnal.

Food cues are also important. I would like to develop a system whereby seeing food results in an immediate "guess" as to how many calories a plate contains, and how much of it I think I can eat, depending on my assessment of my hunger level. Then another cue when I reach that point on the plate to stop, rest, and wait to see if I'm still hungry - because unfortunately, I've read that it takes your body quite a while to interpret fullness (I believe about 30mins?). Added to that, I want to eat more slowly, and take smaller bites. Not hard for me. Pretty consistent with what feels natural for me at this point because I've done that many times in my life.

Fitness cues I have to think about.

What I also took to heart about this book is the way he described the "idolizing" advice. I've received this advice before, but in a different way. Choose someone to idolize - that's what I've been told. Unfortunately, I don't idolize anyone, and even when I did try to find someone who has done what I would like to do, or is who I would like to be - it's really hard for me to find females. -_- ....I can't really put my mind in the shoes of men - if that makes any sense. I know I'm not a man. I would feel like a fake. But the way he describes it - it's like I don't have to pick a real person. I can just create this person in my head, and pretend to be them.

That's a massive shift in perspective for me. I didn't realize how badly I'd boxed myself in with my own opinions of myself. That was really holding me back.

Anyways...I've broken down how -I- would systematically apply the knowledge he's discussed so far, but I'm curious to find out whether or not his method is similar to mine. I think that's coming next.

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