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It seems I'm rejecting my Se

Artsu Tharaz

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#1
I seem lately as though I am beginning to reject my Se. I am not including the Se element in my posts as often as I used to, I am not listening to Se dominant music and enjoying it like I used to, and I am becoming very negative towards things like alcohol and smoking which I tend to enjoy.

Certainly the Se aspects of life have a negative impact on my life, by which I am referring to the drinking and smoking, but it also may be that I am in a somewhat depressed state, or maybe the depressed state is a description of the lack of Se, rather than the cause of it.

Either way, I am not sure what to make of this... could the rejection be healthy, because I have built up unhealthy habits which I need to reconsider, or is there something else going on which is more unhealthy?

Does anyone have experience with a similar kind of phenomenon - maybe you're not an Ni dominant, maybe you're an INTP and have had a similar phase of accepting your Fe to a point that it was impacting you negatively, and then came to reject it. Can someone offer me pointers as to how to handle things at this time, and if it is a time for rebuilding, how I can rebuild Se in a more healthy manner?
 

redbaron

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#2
Replace smoking and alcohol with something else that's physically engaging.

I'd say yes, not drinking alcohol and not smoking is probably healthy.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#3
Replace smoking and alcohol with something else that's physically engaging.

I'd say yes, not drinking alcohol and not smoking is probably healthy.
What sort of things could I replace it with? As much as I know that smoking is damaging my health, the rush that I get is so addicting, and so... easy to obtain. I feel that it is because I am weak that I find it hard to quit. If I weren't weak, I would do things like exercise, but I've not found the strength to get myself to commit to that. I've had brief times in the past of becoming more physically engaged, but I could never turn it into a habit, it just came from fleeting periods of motivation, and quickly dissipated.

While I know those things are unhealthy, would that truly be the reason for why my Se as a whole is being rejected? And I know that I know myself the reasons for why it is, but in order to get me to realise it explicitly, I need to talk it out with others, or maybe I could spend time contemplating over the issue.

Perhaps it is that I am leaving behind elements of my past that I have grown past but which are lingering on in lieu of a more productive and more who-I-am means of spending my energy and time. So, to rid myself of these influences which are holding on, I'm temporarily ridding myself of the state of mind which I see as responsible, for a kind of cleansing.
 

redbaron

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#4
You could do something like painting, drawing or writing.

I mean it's harder to get in the habit of, which is why more people sit in front of the TV and drink/smoke than write books and paint or exercise. But it's surely more rewarding and also more enjoyable the longer you do it, since as your ability increases so typically does your engagement. Alcohol and cigarettes kind of just require more and more to give the same feeling (so I've been told, not an expert on this by any stretch) so in the long run, the choice is simple - even if the inertia you need to overcome seems impossible, it's not.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#5
You could do something like painting, drawing or writing.

I mean it's harder to get in the habit of, which is why more people sit in front of the TV and drink/smoke than write books and paint or exercise. But it's surely more rewarding and also more enjoyable the longer you do it, since as your ability increases so typically does your engagement. Alcohol and cigarettes kind of just require more and more to give the same feeling (so I've been told, not an expert on this by any stretch) so in the long run, the choice is simple - even if the inertia you need to overcome seems impossible, it's not.
I don't think alcohol and cigs really require more to get the same effect... my smoking rate has stayed basically the same for the past few years, and yeah there is tolerance with alcohol, but it's not that drastic. However, the novelty wears off pretty quick, and it just becomes a crutch. Tobacco is addicting af, and alcohol just becomes an easy way to make any social encounter more interesting.

Writing certainly sounds promising; it would likely help me to talk more, too.
 

Rixus

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#6
I don't think this is anything to do with Se or Si as such. It may be describable that way, but what you're describing is very common amongst people prescribed the medication you're taking. The fluctuating dopamine levels you'd be accustomed to would make the nicotine buzz far more pronounced for you and make you more susceptible to these quick fix addictions. Music apparently has more feeling as well as your mood would be more easily influenced; so basically it seems like a heightened Se in the way you describe. Now those levels are stabilised those quick fixes are not having the same effect and are losing their allurement to you. Many people also report a feeling they describe as depression or numbness as their emotions become more stable and they don't feel extremes anymore.

As RB said, there's nothing bad about smoking and alcohol losing their appeal. And yes, it is possible to replace these negative habits with positive ones. I've managed to switch smoking and drinking into exercise and other productive hobbies and tasks, but expecting them to give yo the same instant fix is unrealistic. For exercising, I've found the best way is to set a specific time for it. I will do this activity at 19:30 on a Thursday night, and will get up and do it even if I don't feel like. Then it becomes a habit and you'll feel the benefits. But don't rely on motivation or a need for instant gratification - force yourself to do positive things and the positivity will slowly feed itself.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#7
I don't think this is anything to do with Se or Si as such. It may be describable that way, but what you're describing is very common amongst people prescribed the medication you're taking. The fluctuating dopamine levels you'd be accustomed to would make the nicotine buzz far more pronounced for you and make you more susceptible to these quick fix addictions. Music apparently has more feeling as well as your mood would be more easily influenced; so basically it seems like a heightened Se in the way you describe. Now those levels are stabilised those quick fixes are not having the same effect and are losing their allurement to you. Many people also report a feeling they describe as depression or numbness as their emotions become more stable and they don't feel extremes anymore.

As RB said, there's nothing bad about smoking and alcohol losing their appeal. And yes, it is possible to replace these negative habits with positive ones. I've managed to switch smoking and drinking into exercise and other productive hobbies and tasks, but expecting them to give yo the same instant fix is unrealistic. For exercising, I've found the best way is to set a specific time for it. I will do this activity at 19:30 on a Thursday night, and will get up and do it even if I don't feel like. Then it becomes a habit and you'll feel the benefits. But don't rely on motivation or a need for instant gratification - force yourself to do positive things and the positivity will slowly feed itself.
In general, the method of "do X at time Y" doesn't really appeal to me; I've had psychologists offer the same advice.

And yes, there is something to do with the medication with this... but it's definitely that Se in general is being rejected. Is it being rejected because the medication makes it harder to reach? Yes, somewhat, but nonetheless, I have accumulated many bad habits, which need to be gotten rid of.

This is about overcoming the past. Moving on. Becoming healthier.

And actually, the medication if anything has strengthened the nicotine addiction. Maybe because my dopamine is being blocked, so I am more desperate for finding ways to activate it. But the alcohol intake was reduced, because it interferes with the meds and makes me more sick. But again, it's not so much about that, this is about psychological/lifestyle changes I am going through.

I know that once I complete this stage, I will be a healthier person, but I want to make sure I do it right. I think part of this stage means accepting that I need help from other people, and reaching out. I have to accept that in many ways I am weak, and in many ways I overestimate myself. In other ways, I underestimate myself, and this would also mean realising what those ways are.

It's a turning point, for sure, and it's a good one in general, but it doesn't feel so good. Right now, as I post this, I feel that my Se is more engaged. I am more energetic, more active, I am excited for what these changes will bring. But probably after this, tomorrow maybe, they will be lower again, because I need this. I need to temporarily withdraw from a device which has built up too much wear and tear... accumulated with muck, and take it into the shop for repairs. Once that is done I will feel like a new person.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#8
Ugh, something certainly seems wrong and I can't quite place my finger on it. I'm not thinking things through as well as I should. I'm jumping the gun on many things and forming opinions without considering the necessary facts. Maybe it's a sign I need to reflect more on what I'm doing.
 

TAC

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#9
Artsu, I feel your pain. Smoking and drinking; I don't believe are the problem. Think more about what you are doing while exercising your vices and the enjoyment of those activities themselves. Lately I've been rather depressed (not in the clinical sense, more the cyclical boredom and discontentment with life currently) and have been in autopilot mode. It's draining and makes me want to do less and less and detach from myself. I'm doing a lot more chewing tobacco thoughtless on the couch than chewing tobacco while doing something interesting (usually playing guitar, reading, or doing finance research). The vice is a bad habit, but is not a symptom of my misery. Its more of a comfort and a reminder of better times if anything. I have sought replacement for chew however because I can literally track the damage, but that is a separate endeavor. Sink your teeth into something new. Perhaps something you aren't particularly interested in. That should get the gears turning again. I personally think my problem is that a lot of my interests have gone stale. so I keep reliving the same thoughts with less enjoyment each iteration. I need a break and to return later with fresh ideas/activities to reboot.
 

TAC

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#10
Additionally, I have had a major feelings explosion after a long period of objectively storing my feelings as factual information without processing and expressing them to the stakeholders at hand. If you have had any of that recently, it puts you in a state of cognitive dissonance, and makes it hard to operate normally.
 

cheese

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#11
Hey Artsu, go into more detail about the change you've experienced without framing it in MBTI terms. Might be easier for other people to understand like that.

You feel number, less motivated (by the physical? by easy highs?) and more mentally impulsive/less critical? That's what I've gathered but I imagine there's more.

Try giving us a typical day from the Before period and then a typical day Now, including thought patterns.
 
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#12
Ugh, something certainly seems wrong and I can't quite place my finger on it. I'm not thinking things through as well as I should. I'm jumping the gun on many things and forming opinions without considering the necessary facts. Maybe it's a sign I need to reflect more on what I'm doing.
Do you feel more mentally sluggish and brainfoggy than before, if any at all? Stuff like that can make thinking feel like wading in mud, which in combination with depression, apathy, lessened reward feeling can lead to more of an indifferent thinking in things like that. Since you mentioned fuzzy memory and stuff
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#13
Hey Artsu, go into more detail about the change you've experienced without framing it in MBTI terms. Might be easier for other people to understand like that.

You feel number, less motivated (by the physical? by easy highs?) and more mentally impulsive/less critical? That's what I've gathered but I imagine there's more.

Try giving us a typical day from the Before period and then a typical day Now, including thought patterns.
Heh... it's difficult for me to not frame it in typological terms... because I sense that what is happening is that I'm realising on an implicit level that Se is not going to fulfill me, but rather Ne is. So it's like the Se is receding somewhat so that it won't be such a significant focus and instead I will move through it into Ne.

So I guess you could say that yeah I'm less motivated by the physical and easy highs. I'm becoming more refrained... like instead of going pseudo-manic with alcohol and Se/Se'd up music, I'm staying in a more less-energetic state.

And it's different now to what it was during the time I made this thread. Again, I have a difficult time not framing it in typological terms, so I'm relying less on Ti and more on just Ni. An example of a Ti day is that I will have thoughts on some subject circulating through my mind and I feel the need to go for walks so that the thoughts progress into a conclusion.

I guess I kinda figured that by being Se I was using more of my cognition, and when it receded and I was stopping at Ti I was confused as to whether it was a negative or not. But ultimately I was expending too much energy to stay in that state and now I guess I've become less energetic because I am recharging.

The thing that is probably wrong is that I am not moving into Ne when I should. When I get to Se it feels like things are -done- and then I stop, but instead what I should be doing is to keep on going - to probe my mind until I find a new avenue.

And that is what I will do now: my life feels unfulfilling, and while I previously tried albeit failingly to ... myself with quick fixes I am becoming more and more inclined to see that as insufficient. The way forward is to find something new, to not fall back into old habits and to instead demand of myself that I find a lasting fulfillment in whatever form it may present itself to me.

What I'm also doing is to listen to my inner guide who tells me on a rational level what is occurring, but I feel that I've done too much of that and now I'm not getting the returns I desire because I'm not going along with my natural processes enough to get such a ... so that's not the answer at the moment either, although it's good that I'm doing it again.

I can't really say what a typical day for me is compared to what it was. My mind doesn't work like that. I can speak more easily about the general process that is occurring, and whether it is healthy or not, it is easiest for me to frame that in terms of functions. It's a good change but I'm wondering how to navigate it properly. What'll end up happening is that I'll begin to gain healthy fulfillment, not unhealthy.

It goes along with the process that I've been undergoing for years. I've been schizophrenic and I only quite recently overcame that (you can most likely note a significant change in what I would post to the forum compared to what I post this year) and I'm still on the path towards stabilising myself. That's why I shouldn't be so hard on myself, because I've gone through a lot on a psychological level and I've overworked myself. I've gotta go easy on myself so that I can let the natural processes happen without forcing it to be a certain way due to some idealisation of how I should be. I am constantly changing, constantly evolving, and I don't know where I will be later down the track.

So yeah... I don't think I really answered your question, and maybe there won't be too much that you can get out of what I just wrote, but I feel it was good for me to have gone and written it.*

Do you feel more mentally sluggish and brainfoggy than before, if any at all? Stuff like that can make thinking feel like wading in mud, which in combination with depression, apathy, lessened reward feeling can lead to more of an indifferent thinking in things like that. Since you mentioned fuzzy memory and stuff
I don't really have a "normal" "before" to reference, because I've just come out of schizophrenia a few months ago. I feel mentally sluggish I guess? Or physically sluggish? But I wouldn't describe it as brain fog. My memory has always been fuzzy, and the only time it seemed to be good is when I was actively tracking my progress in terms of what was happening at this time and this time, and I don't do that as actively any more. Tbh, the apathy that I feel, or not so much apathy but lack of fulfillment, is something I've had to deal with for years, and I guess it's about: how do I get out of that? How do I get to feel that where I am is where I want to be, and that I can enjoy life as it is without just waiting around for something good to happen? It's a realisation that I am using unhealthy means to try and gain fulfillment and that that has to stop.

--

* and I wrote that post longer than my usual posts because I was trying to reach through all 8 functions. Again, it's easiest for me to think in terms of where I'm reaching with my functions because that's how I've come to view things and I don't see that changing any times.

--

My lesson from this post: don't stop when there's more to say, but also don't force things. Stop at the right time.

I have to keep progressing, but I don't have to do everything at once.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#14
Interesting: Pod'lair makes a prediction about what I am experiencing.

It is called the Shut-down System Sequence. My Se has been shut-down, and guess what? Now Ti is beginning to shut-down, which is negatively impacting my studies. And guess what happens after that? Fe will shut down. ... Then Ni shuts down.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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#15
Interesting: Pod'lair makes a prediction about what I am experiencing.

It is called the Shut-down System Sequence. My Se has been shut-down, and guess what? Now Ti is beginning to shut-down, which is negatively impacting my studies. And guess what happens after that? Fe will shut down. ... Then Ni shuts down.
I thought I would update on this for anyone interested:

So I was right, it was the shut-down sequence. Fe shut down, problems socialising (I've realised how Fe my focus on friendship is) and Ni shut down as I stopped dwelling on my future; then it rebooted. I have to say, it was really difficult, with Se's rebooting causing all kinds of mental issues. But now Ne has kicked back in, and I have to say... it's really rather amazing. Spiritual gifts ensue. I'm continuing on, Fi is coming back on soon. How far will I go? Time shall tell.

 

Artsu Tharaz

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#16
Another update:

So I've been through the Fi phase. Te has begun. Fi was... more difficult than I expected. But, ok. Part of that was the fact that a fucking tick was draining my energy. But I cried for the first (and second) time in quite a while. My Fi was wounded. I got through it though.

Now for Te. Te is about rank. Mechanically so, like, just... the facts... nah not quite that it's just... hard to say, but I start to realise my worth and get angry at the motherfuckers stepping on my TURF thinking they can step out of line all like they own it, well fuck that, I own me, I own mine, I own... I digress.

But this is where things get really tough. But tough in a good way, like, fighting through to the finish line. Geez, Si is gonna be hard. I'm prepared though. Or at least, I will be. Once Si activates.

It keeps going from there by the way, I'm not finished.

--

editing this in because it sounds funny so far

 

Artsu Tharaz

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#18
A final note: the process has completed and I am back to Ni. I thought I might have gone further than the Si stage into what are named "mergings", but that was not the case. In fact, the whole process seemed to be quite over-rated.

Moving on...
 
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