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Is this guy INTP representative?

BigApplePi

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Here is a fellow who says he's an INTP. Is he? I identify with a lot of what he's saying. Do you? Do you find him inspiring? He seems quite confident in where he is at. I wish I had been at his level when I was his age. Seems like he is going somewhere. Would you like to be as developed as he appears to be?
YouTube - INTP 4
 

Adymus

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Yes, he is definitely one of us.

I really like this guy too, its sad that so many of the INTPs the pop up above the surface, are actually not INTPs at all. It is refreshing to see another one of us is out there trying to be heard, sharing the fruits of their mind.
 

BigApplePi

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Hi Adymus. Thank you for confirming that guy is INTP. I can't judge types unless I work hard at it and think it over a lot. I notice you posted the Pod'Lair link at the bottom. A few days ago I took a look at it. Most links within were not available to me but I did see a couple.

Comment & Questions:
(1) I thought the video links I could see showed great promise. Visual cues would be a great addition to personality tests and self-descriptions. They are more objective and can be categorized I understand. Is Pod'lair primarily visual in interpretation or are there more things I've missed?

(2) There was one section of 16 "MOJO"'s. Are these meant to be EXACTLY the 16 MBTI categories or approximately with some sort of shift? (I found them good descriptions.) I would hope the former as the MBTI is well established and grounds many people. (I'm taking into account your observation about inaccurate testing, BTW.)
 

GarmGarf

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(1) I thought the video links I could see showed great promise. Visual cues would be a great addition to personality tests and self-descriptions. They are more objective and can be categorized I understand. Is Pod'lair primarily visual in interpretation or are there more things I've missed?

Pod'lair is more than even just psyche configuration (equivalent to "personality type") identification and analysis. So, yes, there is more.

Even limited to just psyche configuration identification and analysis, there is a lot of theory behind the means of identifying psyche configurations. So by that, yes there is more than just visual interpretation.

And even limited to just the identification of psyche configuration, well, humans give off evidence of their psyche configurations in many means, including audio and visiual. So even just by that, yes there is more to it.


(2) There was one section of 16 "MOJO"'s. Are these meant to be EXACTLY the 16 MBTI categories or approximately with some sort of shift? (I found them good descriptions.) I would hope the former as the MBTI is well established and grounds many people. (I'm taking into account your observation about inaccurate testing, BTW.)

The degree of equivalence of the 16 psyche configurations ("Mojos") to the MBTI/Jungian personality types is enough for Adymus to have enough confidence to tell people that they are correct or incorrect about their type, so, it's not like the degree of equivalence is as weak as say, Enneagram or Socionics is to MBTI/Jungian types.

However, yes, there is difference in fundamental theory. And they are certainly not meant to be exactly the same nor are they the same.

One one level, one could perceive that Pod'lair are attempting to correct the other systems, but without the tediousness of correcting a mess - their alternative is to start a new blank canvas.
 

EyeSeeCold

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The guy is INTJ, GTFO my Pness.
 

EvilScientist Trainee

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I've also read that PodLair typing taking into account the tones in the voice of the people in the video. My question is, a foreigner couldn't be typed because they speak another language or do you take the subject that is being told into account?
 

Adymus

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Good Questions, and they are both connected in a way.

It would probably be most accurate to say that Pod'Lair is primarily Physical in interpreting and reading Mojos, but we read into more than what is taken in from our eyes. What you really should understand when you study Pod'Lair and you came from something like MBTI or JCE or any of the other known Typologies, as that our Model is Perception first, theory second.

This opposed to MBTI, JCE, or the other typologies which is theory first, perception second, meaning they are defining their perception based on their theories rules and logic. For example, things like "this person is way to into sports to be an intuitive, as according to our model Intuitives are not supposed to be like this" or "this person does not show very much emotion, this person must be a thinker, as that is how thinkers are supposed to act."

In other words the rules to what defines the behavior of a type have already been created, and the typing process is putting people into these static categories. It is what I would call a method a stereotyping that focuses more on the what, rather than the deeper why.

In Pod'lair it is the other way around, we read simply what is coming natural to this person, and do not allow ourselves to be biased by our idea of how said Mojo is supposed to behave. You see ultimately, theory is the most vulnerable part of any model. Of course, theory is an extremely important component, but ultimately its one duty is to accurately interpret the natural law behind a phenomenon, and in this case our phenomenon is the Mojo/Personality type phenomenon. Now when the theory contains the phenomenon, like in MBTI/JCE then you end up with a lot of false assumptions, such as This type is supposed to act like this and only this, and that type is supposed to act like that and only that. You end up with a theory being in charge of defining natural law, but in reality, theory never rules over natural law, it only interprets it to the best of our human ability. So when you have a theory that tries to define natural law, instead of the other way around, you end up with a clumsy model like MBTI/JCE, full of false assumptions and dismisses phenomenon that are paradoxical to its principles as less than they are, and only useful for feeding back into itself and perpetuating flawed ideas.

In Pod'Lair, we have bypassed that pitfall, because our theory is based on the natural law behind people and how they interact, nothing else, we are not trying to fit nature into another model, we are making a model that is expressive of the nature that we are observing.

In doing so we actually get far more accurate reads of people, as well as a much deeper understanding of what is behind these Mojos than any Typological model that came before us. You see, if you can physically see that a person is a certain Mojo, then it does not matter if you did not know said Mojo could potentially act the way they are acting, because they are obviously doing it right now. What it does mean is that it is time you expand your understanding of said Mojo, because in reality there is clearly no paradox between this behavior and their Mojo configuration, the Paradox only exists in your Paradigm because it conflicts with your assumptions, and it is time you expand you paradigm, as opposed to restricting it to these assumptions.

So to answer your question, there are correlations between the 16 Jungian/MBTI types, and the 16 Mojo Configurations, but it would not be accurate to say that these are the same. I say this mainly because when you read Pod'Lair theory, I want you to read it as something you have never read before, as opposed to seeing a Zai'nyy and thinking "Oh I already know what that is, that is an INTP." All that will do is set you up for mistakes and false assumptions. I don't want people who read Pod'Lair material to think they already know what they are reading, because they don't, and it requires you to be comfortable with letting go of what you think you already know to really understand it.

MBTI defines types by descriptions and a set of characteristics, in Pod'Lair you will find that many if not most Mojos do not behave in the ways their MBTI correlations said they were supposed to behave. It is not because we are wrong, it is because MBTI failed to add many dimentions to their understanding, and have restricted their understanding to a very narrow lens, when that nature of the phenomenon is vast far more complex than that.
So I will not say "yes" to your question about the Mojos being exactly like the types, because I don't want to set you up later for thinking you are seeing a paradox, only because you have made an assumption on how an INTP or Zai'nyy is supposed to be, versus how they actually are in or how they actually can be.

This is why Reading people does not, will not, and cannot exist in Jungian Typology or MBTI. You cannot expect to be able to accurately read into the natural phenomenon when your theory demands that the phenomenon give you specific results. You cannot allow your theory to trump reality, when your theory has only so many answers, and reality has all of them. You need a new system for that, one that is not bound by assumptions, and we have created just that.
 

Adymus

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I've also read that PodLair typing taking into account the tones in the voice of the people in the video. My question is, a foreigner couldn't be typed because they speak another language or do you take the subject that is being told into account?
We don't type people we read people.


Ethnicity, culture, language, etc is all irrelevant, we have read people of all colors and creeds, speaking languages that we could not even understand, and that has never been a problem.

Humans are humans are humans, it does not matter what you have learned in your life, if you are human that you have been structured by the same natural laws as every other human. And that is what we read, natural laws, not memes like language and culture.
 

EvilScientist Trainee

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We don't type people we read people.

Sorry, it's the habit.

Ethnicity, culture, language, etc is all irrelevant, we have read people of all colors and creeds, speaking languages that we could not even understand, and that has never been a problem.

Humans are humans are humans, it does not matter what you have learned in your life, if you are human that you have been structured by the same natural laws as every other human. And that is what we read, natural laws, not memes like language and culture.

Well, that really makes me want to try PodLair. I've read a bit of the theory you've shown on your site, and have wanted to submit a video for a while right now, but not being confident in my English has refrained me from doing so.

Thanks for your answers, Adymus.
 

Adymus

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Well, that really makes me want to try PodLair. I've read a bit of the theory you've shown on your site, and have wanted to submit a video for a while right now, but not being confident in my English has refrained me from doing so.

Thanks for your answers, Adymus.
Yeah no worries at all, we should be able to hear your voice, but it is not necessary that we actually understand what you are saying ::D
 

vorre

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I also wonder if this guy is INTP representative:
YouTube - MBTI INTP

The reason i wonder is that i think he express himself pretty much with all his face and i speculation about him being F, but have no clue really.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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Adymus, why do you say he is INTP rather than INTJ?

His systems are all external - physical structures, political/social structures. Is this not Te? Is not his vision of this overarching system of relations one of Ni?

Not to mention the way he conveys himself in general. I'm confident that his manner of expression is far more reminiscent of an INTJ than an INTP.

So, official verdict?
 

BigApplePi

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Adymus. I'm with you if you are saying theory should not dictate reality. I read what you are saying is you'd like to treat Pod'Lair as starting fresh.

We are using the word, "theory" here and I want to clarify my view. Theory should not be at war with reality, ever. Theory is meant to be a model for or an outline of the nature of reality. It's purpose is to make things simple. Theory is meant to work with reality ... back and forth. Each presents feedback to the other. Reality is uncontrolled; theory holds it together.

I want to interpret what you are saying is that there are OTHER personality theories. I suggest we should not let those be treated as rigid just because of invested interests. Invested interests count because they did their duty and we owe them credit for that, but not forever. When something new comes along that could be better, we should be ready to apply it. That is what the scientific method is for.

More thoughts: When I asked if Pod'Lair was visual, it would have been better if I'd said sensual ... meaning we start from perceptual data. That would include all the senses, not just visual. Now it strikes me that Pod'Lair then draws it's conclusions from an attempt to objectify data. We observe facial (below the neckline too?) data and voice data. Any other senses? Does it exclude subjective data? If someone says they think a lot or are highly feeling, is that ignored because it's not objective?
 

BigApplePi

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SpaceYeti

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I think it's hilarious how everyone on this board can judge the INTPness of anyone else based primarily on facial expressions. A well developed shadow or experience in social situations or simple exceptions to a general rule could never be what's going on. When I first came here, nobody believed I was an INTP. Hell, maybe they still don't, yet I still consistently test as one.

Peculiar.
 

BigApplePi

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I think it's hilarious how everyone on this board can judge the INTPness of anyone else based primarily on facial expressions. A well developed shadow or experience in social situations or simple exceptions to a general rule could never be what's going on. When I first came here, nobody believed I was an INTP. Hell, maybe they still don't, yet I still consistently test as one.

Peculiar.
How dare you speak for me SpacedYeti. I never said I believed you weren't INTP. I don't believe you are not an INTP. Can you tell if this person has a personality? Carefully examine their expression and see if you can't detect one. Heh. Heh.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...ndsp=46&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:244&biw=1770&bih=895
 

Adymus

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Adymus, why do you say he is INTP rather than INTJ?

His systems are all external - physical structures, political/social structures. Is this not Te? Is not his vision of this overarching system of relations one of Ni?

Not to mention the way he conveys himself in general. I'm confident that his manner of expression is far more reminiscent of an INTJ than an INTP.

So, official verdict?
Because I am not typing him, I am reading him.

I can see that he is using Ti-Ne-Si-Fe and in that order, everything else is irrelevant.

The fact that you think affinity to external systems makes him an INTJ just means its time you expand your understanding of what it is and is not allowed in terms of being a Te user or an INTP.

This is exactly what I was talking about in my reply to Pi.
 

Words

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I judge the person on the first video as an INTP. My only qualm is his preferred system. It makes me think of Ni. One can't really see people as objects in a system when one does not shift his/her perspective. He is INTP because I am INTP. I relate to his description of mental process in the earlier part of the video. And I think this idea(mental behavior) is more relevant than his type.

More accurately, this way of thinking is a perspective. I will official name it as "Reasoning via a historical perspective." In the CF point of view, I think this would be...."TiSi."

Understanding can be divided into "forms." These forms represent facets of the object required to fully comprehend that object. What was presented in the video is a form of understanding developed by looking at the object through a historical point of view. It allows you to explore part of the "cause and effect" in its most detailed sense(Si). It answers many of the "why" questions. For example, the word "system" can be explained by looking into the past---its etymology. Why do we use cars today? Because of the industrial revolution and such and such. Why do we exist? Biology.

Of course, reality is not limited to history. Another facet of understanding is "decision." This facet is predominantly answered by evolution. The drive of any system(natural or social) is always about seeking efficiency. Why we chose to use cars is because they are efficient.

Historical focus is a useful perspective in understanding. A house does not pop out of nowhere.
 

VroumVroum

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When I see this house you know. I think I don’t give a fuck. Actually I don’t even see the house.


And why on earth is he talking about INTJ?


I call INTP anyway. I’ve got a video of me explaining stuff the same way as he does.
ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US.
 

Lobstrich

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Yes, he is definitely one of us.

I really like this guy too, its sad that so many of the INTPs the pop up above the surface, are actually not INTPs at all. It is refreshing to see another one of us is out there trying to be heard, sharing the fruits of their mind.


I really hate that theory of yours.. Sure you can tell a couple of stuff like looking up to your right then you're visual, or how it is. But you can't see how a person really works by just looking at them. It's just straight out dumb, in my opinion.

A second point is that one of the rules for the MBTI theory is that "Nobody but oneself can truly tell what type one is"
 

Artsu Tharaz

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I really hate that theory of yours.. Sure you can tell a couple of stuff like looking up to your right then you're visual, or how it is. But you can't see how a person really works by just looking at them. It's just straight out dumb, in my opinion.

A second point is that one of the rules for the MBTI theory is that "Nobody but oneself can truly tell what type one is"

Opinion noted.

Good thing it's not MBTI then.
 

Lobstrich

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Opinion noted.

Good thing it's not MBTI then.

It's not, no. But it's working straight of the MBTI theory right? But okay, a motorboat is not the same as a sailboat, they have NO correlation whatsoever. Because they do not work in a similar way.

And if you opinion is "good it's not MBTI" why are you 'pod'lair people' even 'correcting' our types? I'm INTP which is the result that I've gotten through a test. An MBTI test. And then you come along and tell us that we're not truly this or that because it's not been recognised by your theory. And most of the time all the people who "claim" to be INTP's are INTJ's according to that pod'lair thing. Or well at least Adymus. My point is that, completely denying that your theory and MBTI have nothing in common and through that, that my opinion is pretty much irrelevant is a little hypocritical, no?

(I apologize if my post is messed up, it's 6AM here, been a long night. Can't be bothered to read through it for grammar. I just have a feeling that, that is exactly what I should be doing, hehe)
 

Artsu Tharaz

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You said in MBTI only you can decide your type, and this is certainly a difference that can be attributed to the sail vs. motor, without denying that both are boats. Yes they are focused on the same phenomenon (typology), and separate types in roughly the same way, but the fact that MBTI is tied into to independent criteria like being your "own best judge" shows that you have to separate the different typing methods.

If you believe that you can actually objectively be one type or the other, and its not just vague criteria + self identification, then you should have no problem with answering to objective criteria. Give that you may well not know what type you are, due to not knowing exactly how the types work and/or not knowing yourself, you can easily mistype yourself. If you want to more accurately be able to compare types on an objective level, you're going to need objective criteria.

If you're fine with all of this, but just don't think the Pod'lair typing methods are very good either, then you're free to try and disprove them.
 

Lobstrich

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You said in MBTI only you can decide your type, and this is certainly a difference that can be attributed to the sail vs. motor, without denying that both are boats. Yes they are focused on the same phenomenon (typology), and separate types in roughly the same way, but the fact that MBTI is tied into to independent criteria like being your "own best judge" shows that you have to separate the different typing methods.

If you believe that you can actually objectively be one type or the other, and its not just vague criteria + self identification, then you should have no problem with answering to objective criteria. Give that you may well not know what type you are, due to not knowing exactly how the types work and/or not knowing yourself, you can easily mistype yourself. If you want to more accurately be able to compare types on an objective level, you're going to need objective criteria.

If you're fine with all of this, but just don't think the Pod'lair typing methods are very good either, then you're free to try and disprove them.

The thing is, I didn't "type" myself, a test did.
 

Artsu Tharaz

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"Nobody but oneself can truly tell what type one is" - and now you're saying a test told you?

The thing about basing your type on a test is that:
- it still requires knowing yourself enough to answer the question honestly
- the question would have to accurately reflect type differences at their root, and you would have to be able to interpret the question properly so as to extract this meaning - this isn't too likely, given how difficult it can be to distinguish between different processes using short descriptions
- many of the questions focus on behaviour which don't directly indicate type, and so can only be based on correlation, thereby leaving room for error

The test gives you an idea of what your type is, but can't tell you for sure. This is mentioned over and over again, with the suggestion that you do more research into types, learn to identify the cognitive functions in yourself and so on - which is hardly a trivial thing to do.
 

Lobstrich

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"Nobody but oneself can truly tell what type one is" - and now you're saying a test told you?

The thing about basing your type on a test is that:
- it still requires knowing yourself enough to answer the question honestly
- the question would have to accurately reflect type differences at their root, and you would have to be able to interpret the question properly so as to extract this meaning - this isn't too likely, given how difficult it can be to distinguish between different processes using short descriptions
- many of the questions focus on behaviour which don't directly indicate type, and so can only be based on correlation, thereby leaving room for error

The test gives you an idea of what your type is, but can't tell you for sure. This is mentioned over and over again, with the suggestion that you do more research into types, learn to identify the cognitive functions in yourself and so on - which is hardly a trivial thing to do.

A test told me through my answers. The tests didn't analyze and "type" me. It only calculated my answers. And who says that I stopped when I knew my type? What am I doing on this forum and not just any other forum? And sure the test gives you an idea. So that means the only definite way for one to know which type one is.. You'll have to be typed by "Pod'Lair"?? Aha.
 

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Can someone tell me why Pod'lair theory tugs at the "fishy" string of my brain harder than a kibbutz farmer sucking on a cow's teet? :confused:
 

BigApplePi

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I really hate that theory of yours.. Sure you can tell a couple of stuff like looking up to your right then you're visual, or how it is. But you can't see how a person really works by just looking at them. It's just straight out dumb, in my opinion.

A second point is that one of the rules for the MBTI theory is that "Nobody but oneself can truly tell what type one is"
Lobstrich. I can sympathize with what you're saying. The task then becomes, how do you get your point across? Adymus has a theory and the alternative is only yet intuition, undeveloped. My guess is Adymus believes the brain only works a certain way. The question is, how confining IS that way?
 

Lobstrich

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Lobstrich. I can sympathize with what you're saying. The task then becomes, how do you get your point across? Adymus has a theory and the alternative is only yet intuition, undeveloped. My guess is Adymus believes the brain only works a certain way. The question is, how confining IS that way?

I thought my point got across just fine, hehe. But I don't have an alternative, that doesn't exclude me from having an opinion though =)
 

soraya

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Wow, that guy in that first video sounds like a really well developed personality. Impressive.
 

kibou

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Just looking at the videos in this thread makes me realize how obvious these cognitive cues are, I just wish there were ways to describe them more and more clearly. But wow are they distinct. Huge Ni drift in the second video!


Also @Adymus , the INTP in the first video has much more of a stoneface than the INTP and ENTP smirk-quirk (for a lack of a better term) that I see on for example you and Adam. Is there just a lack of Fe in his expression (esp in his voice, with some exceptions like when he introduces his window)?
 

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Does anyone else feel like the guy in the OP video came across as rather cocky? "When I look outside here I don't just see a house, I wonder what all went into that house, what went into building that house..." Then he says that "what most people don't realize is how much goes into building these systems."

I feel like that is both a misrepresentation and an ego massage. I don't think being INTP has all so much to do with being able to see things like this that others don't. I think that, all too often, people of intelligence or depth of thinking often feel that they are above most others. That might be true to a degree, but sometimes I think that we (because I do this myself sometimes) really need to get off our high horse.

He also speaks with an air of "definiteness" that I don't so much like. "These people do this, these other people do this." Then, he goes to explain why these things that he states relate to his being special.

I dunno...whether he's INTP or not (I'm not sold on it, but I won't make the claim that he is not), I'm not the biggest fan.

He also seems to have the "hive mind" syndrome going pretty strongly - he often says things like "we do" this, "we do" that.

On a side note - he actually looks and sounds a lot like me, only I'm not balding quite yet and don't wear glasses.

Sorry, I just crapped on this thread with negativity. Forgive me :p.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Exactly Glordag. I call INTJ.
 

kibou

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@Glordag I don't know how I feel about thinking of someone as not being INTP, or being INTJ instead because they seem to come across as cocky or having a "hive mind" mentality...couldn't any type have such a thought? Can't any MBTI type be secure, insecure, sure of themselves, unsure of themselves? This feels to me like you're stereotyping what an INTP ideally should be, and not considering someone INTP if they don't fit into that ideal image of the INTP.
 

Glordag

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@Glordag I don't know how I feel about thinking of someone as not being INTP, or being INTJ instead because they seem to come across as cocky or having a "hive mind" mentality...couldn't any type have such a thought? Can't any MBTI type be secure, insecure, sure of themselves, unsure of themselves? This feels to me like you're stereotyping what an INTP ideally should be, and not considering someone INTP if they don't fit into that ideal image of the INTP.

I never said he wasn't INTP. In fact, what I said was -

glordag said:
I dunno...whether he's INTP or not (I'm not sold on it, but I won't make the claim that he is not), I'm not the biggest fan.

I'm not big on thinking that I can accurately type someone better than they can type themselves. The point of my post was just to state that, regardless of whether he's INTP or not, I think he comes across as arrogant and misled.
 

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Does anyone else feel like the guy in the OP video came across as rather cocky?

Not really.

"When I look outside here I don't just see a house, I wonder what all went into that house, what went into building that house..."

It's a matter of simplification. Surely it doesn't happen all the time, there is just more tendency for it to pop-out than not. It's like asking your teacher for every little detail in his or her lecture. Ti(NeSi) manifests itself in an analytical form of curiosity. It has a desire to grasp things wholesomely, which is related to it preferring the systematical perspective. In short, its just questions and curiosity, and, for me, that is well too often to be paralleled with "cockiness."

Then he says that "what most people don't realize is how much goes into building these systems."
Another assumption to assist in simplification of delivery. The reason behind this assumed people's lack of "realization" is most likely the absence of attention towards the systematical perspective: Ti.

I don't think being INTP has all so much to do with being able to see things like this that others don't.
Its more of a case of asking things that most people don't even bother to inquire about.

I think that, all too often, people of intelligence or depth of thinking often feel that they are above most others. That might be true to a degree, but sometimes I think that we (because I do this myself sometimes) really need to get off our high horse.
"High Horse" is relative to one's values. I can be cocky about being a dolt, but perhaps you're thinking of "external collective value." Either way, what is intelligence and depth?

I think what your arguing against here is the reality of the mentioned "ability." Well, its not about skill; it's about preference.

He also speaks with an air of "definiteness" that I don't so much like. "These people do this, these other people do this." Then, he goes to explain why these things that he states relate to his being special.

He also seems to have the "hive mind" syndrome going pretty strongly - he often says things like "we do" this, "we do" that.
Again, simplification. Again, what is "special"?


Sorry, I just crapped on this thread with negativity. Forgive me :p.

Get over yourself! I refuse. :P
 
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