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INTPs & the military

Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
1
#1
Hello, I am a student in college. I came across an ROTC program for my college and I am very interested in joining it. I want to experience it and if anything good comes from me joining, then great. Since I was young, I have had a deep respect for veterans and the military. My great grandfather was a Code Talker and both of my parents met while both serving in the Marine Corps. Not to mention, my aunt and uncle (maternal side) were also in the Marine Corps.

I was just wondering if any INTPs out have ever wanted to join the military or have ever served in the military. I scheduled a meeting with my adviser for more info on the Air Force ROTC program, but I also wanted to gain some insight from other INTPs. I am worried about obeying officers and other higher ranking people, but I think I can manage it. My mom is an ESFJ, and though we have some conflicts from time to time, I believe I can imitate her SJ traits.
 

QuickTwist

Soothsayer
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
6,439
Location
A hut in the woods
#2
Hi, thanks for your post.

If you are an INTP, then the military is not exactly your first choice of career. There are a few reasons for this:

INTPs can have a very laissez faire attitude which can really get INTPs in trouble in the military.
INTPs can sometimes have poor self-discipline which is counter productive for the military.
Third, INTPs so often have their head in the clouds and into their imagination that it makes the mundane "chore" like routines of the military contradict with the personality traits of the INTP.

That said, there are some INTPs that do join the military and sometimes their logical mind can do well in a strategic setting.

My advice is to really try and think about this long term because another one of INTPs faults is that they can sometimes think they really want to do something at the time, but when the shit hits the fan they find they have made a mistake of career choice.

Best of luck with this :)
 

TheScornedReflex

(Per) Version of a truth.
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,910
#3
My suggestion for making a career choice is to throw away the mbti crap and do what you are interested in. Don't plan a career based off four letters from a Internet test.

There are, however, members here that identify with intp that are in the military. I'm not sure how active they are though.
 

The Grey Man

Active Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
331
Location
Canada
#4
Both my father and I joined the military as NCM's and almost became officers-in-training, balking at the opportunity for different reasons. My dad was probably officer material, but met my mom, left the army, and ended up taking a very different path. I just enjoyed "slumming it" with the junior ranks too much (Architect's "intellectual redneck" theory might apply in my case).
What can I say about the effect of my personality on my military career that wouldn't be true in any setting? QuickTwist has already covered some of my experience. Can't say I've ever been an officer though.
 

ENTP lurker

Usually useless
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
228
Location
Pluto, solar system
#5
I did compulsory military service. I'm anything but soldier. Just imagine an ENTP being in military costume. Yes, I was a total joke. Clothes hanging while on and hat thingy was totally screwed everytime.
I think INTPs might have more potential in military but there is usually one brickwall to overcome: moron reasoning and acting without questions
 
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
6,314
Location
Birmingham, UK
#6
When I spent some time with the Army they immediately picked up on my introversion and suggested that it might be a 'problem'.

Not as in depth as anything such as MBTI, but they were definitely screening psychological types on some level.

Well, not surprising considering what goes on behind closed doors, they don't want any free thinkers infiltrating the ranks.

Check out the British Army's 'community':
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/forums/

Full of fucking meat heads, shills, and psyop operatives. Free Thinkers will be closed down immediately. A forum ran by top echelons of the hierarchy.

Like, the levels of retardedsness in the mass of jar heads.. Incredible. I can't believe that we inflict these people upon the rest of the world.

Oh finally! A distraction from Mafia. lol
 

EditorOne

Prolific Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,700
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
#7
What Sinny said, except that if you can stand the guff, the braying extraverts, the utter reliance on routine, you can get promoted high enough to where all that analysis and whatnot can do some good. Some of the best generals in history might have been INTP, including U.S. Grant and Dwight Eisenhower. Both got lucky in the sense that their skillsets were so badly needed that the personality problems just didn't matter, what was needed was intelligent, cold-blooded thinkers who could see the cost of victory in human terms but push the buttons on the war machine anyway.

We have a few folks in here who have been in the military. With any luck they'll catch this thread and make a contribution. Some of the stupid stuff Sinny noted makes sense if you think of the military as a machine where all the parts have to work AS EXPECTED and WHEN EXPECTED for success to be achieved, but knowing the "why" of 19 different moves to change a tire on a 6x6 or the reason why a particular formation is based on the weaponry available does only a little bit to take the oppressiveness away for an INTP who is hardwired to keep asking "WTF? WHY? THAT doesn't make any SENSE!"

I have NOT been in the military but have had a lot of experience with military members and their families and have studied the 19th century military pretty extensively, just for the hell of it.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Messages
867
Location
Just North of Normal
#8
This guy seems pretty ENTP based on his other videos and my non existent knowledge of ENTPs

I'm not gonna watch the whole thing again, idk if he says anything stupid. If he does I apologize on his behalf. He can be sorta crude at times. Not my favorite person in the world but interesting non the least.

EDIT: I watched it again and recommend y'all to watch it, nice video IMO
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
Location
Far away from All This
#9
Just got medically discharged from the US Army after a week of basic training because I had an asthma attack on my first ruck march (worth noting I nonetheless completed it). Any disappointment I felt was nullified by my relief at being out of such an incompetent (dis)organization.

Anyway, due to the above-noted inefficiency and disorganization of the military, I was kept at Ft Jackson for almost three weeks before I was sent home, and spent a total of exactly one month doing mostly groundskeeping/janitorial work on base in South Carolina. During that time, I got to see a slightly more "real" side of the military than what you get at BCT proper, and can tell you, bottom line, that the United States Army is not a good place for an INTP. Some reasons:
1. The facade of professionalism crumbles like the crappy bread you get in your MREs. Inefficiencies, embarrassing typos (my battalion spells "battalion" incorrectly on all of its letterheads), knee-jerk drill sergeants with attitude problems who project their own issues onto their trainees -- and their fellow NCOs (this was a big issue in my battalion).

2. Apparently many peoples' emotions run extremely high under the stress. Watching this was terrifying for me.

3. You will encounter people who cannot be quiet. This one still mystifies me, as someone who relishes a day when I do not have to speak.

4. You will have to spent hours doing/studying things that you do not find mentally stimulating.

5. The military does not have room for soldiers who do not process information the way they feed it. If you are not an auditory learner, you will have issues. If you are not a team player who is willing to do a small part of the puzzle without seeing the entire thing, you will have issues. If you value dissonant approaches to problems, you will have issues.

Those were my own experiences in the Army. As I understand it, the Navy and the Air Force are both better run, but you'll probably still have problems like the ones I experienced.

:cthulhu:,
Wolf18
 
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
6,314
Location
Birmingham, UK
#10
When I was at base there was also covert and overt impropriety..

Namely in regards to females...

Having studied DEEPCUT in depth and what has now been coined the 'culture' of DEEPCUT, I have little doubt that that culture persists today.

Always has, probably always will.
 
Joined
May 28, 2016
Messages
8
#12
If you are sure you are INTP, then you should not join the military since it is way too stressful and restrict for us.
 

ENTP lurker

Usually useless
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
228
Location
Pluto, solar system
#13
This guy seems pretty ENTP based on his other videos and my non existent knowledge of ENTPs

I'm not gonna watch the whole thing again, idk if he says anything stupid. If he does I apologize on his behalf. He can be sorta crude at times. Not my favorite person in the world but interesting non the least.

EDIT: I watched it again and recommend y'all to watch it, nice video IMO
I think way too dark and bit too much into violence (Se inferior). I would say INFJ or ENFJ.
 
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
18
Location
Oregon
#14
I spent 7 years in the Army with an Infantry unit. The training and experience was incredibly helpful to me when I got out but I hated my life for the majority of it. INTP's do not fit well. If you can keep your sanity and stick it out you'll probably gain some useful skills and attributes but you'll clash with the system constantly. It helped me a lot with discipline, focus, and pragmatic thinking but I barely made it out with my Sergeant stripes. INTP's don't handle authority well. Or at least I don't.
 
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Messages
25
Location
Desert
#15
Im coming up on 4 years active duty. I will not be reenlisting. Your experiences are going to vary depending on your unit. Most of my career was spent doing janitorial work, and after I was promoted, half janitorial half supervisory work. Ive stood in countless formations for more time than was ever necessary. Ive been yelled at for going by the book. Ive been yelled at for not going by the book. You get over being yelled at. You are no longer so worried about pissing people off. You do get to indulge in as much dark humor as you want, and that steady paycheck ain't so bad. I learned a lot about dealing with people by being forced to deal with them. I took a bite or two of the being female in the military shit sandwich but it didn't define my career. If you really want to join go ahead. My advice for you would be to go navy or chair force. And if you decide to go ahead with it do what you can to not look like a complete shitbag even if your ideals don't match. That last comment was for your personal safety.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2012
Messages
73
#16
Hello, I may be a little late to this, but I would like to share my experiences.
I was not in the US military, rather I was in the Singapore Military and I was there for compulsory service. In Singapore it's a bit different than the US Military because they stratify you based on your education level and I was placed in the regiments with higher education draftees.
In the military I knew my disdain for authority and my heads in the clouds mentality would cause me a lot of trouble and possibly jail time, so I had to do whatever I could to play it safe. I made it my number 1 priority never to get noticed by the drill sergeants or officers, and my end goal was to get past basic training without any of my superiors knowing my name.
Basically the two things I did was:
1. Be very very quiet.
2. Just do whatever the person next to you is doing, even if you don't know why.

Following the two rules above I was able to get past basic training unscathed. Other more troublesome soldiers were noticed by my superiors and made to volunteer for stuff (things most people would hate, such as guard duty and stuff). Basically, if you are in the army you need to keep your head down, your humility in check, and never ever argue against your superior. Just do what they tell you, even if they have far less education than you.

Anyway, after basic training I was posted to Officer Cadet School as part of a fluke. See, in my unit there were peer evaluations and there was a lot of drama in that unit. I, being completely quiet was mostly kept out of it, and I practiced a general demeanor of being professional and polite to everyone (while being distant). So I ended up being one of the most well-liked soldiers in the platoon by virtue of being the only one not hated by anyone else (that was quite the unit, I absolutely hated it). So yeah, be quiet and don't draw attention to yourself in anyway. Not only do you escape the notice of your superiors, you also escape the notice of bullies in your unit.

Anyway after I got posted to OCS, I got sent to a secret service investigation bureau (which I will not and cannot name) where I mostly did paperwork and writing minutes and stuff. My instructor in OCS and repeatedly lambasted my lack of leadership skills and always questioned how the fuck I got into OCS (he tried to kick me out because he thought I was not officer material...which I cannot deny). However, since I was such a quiet, non-trouble maker, humble guy, he quickly forgot about me in lieu of other officer candidates that caused much more visible trouble (I was twice lucky).
So yeah, after OCS I got posted to that secret service place but that was not because of any merit of mine but because my superiors knew that placing me in charge of anyone would be a disaster (I can't garner respect from preschool kids if I can help it). So I got sent to an isolated place to do paperwork and reports because my english was very good...by army standards. After 2 years, and being the only 2nd LT. of my OCS wing to not be promoted to LT, it was time to leave.
Honestly, I must be the most lucky person here among everyone else haha. I definitely didn't mind being left to my own thing and write bombastic english reports everyday.
Though now I'm studying engineering at a US university so theres that.
Boy was I glad I did.
 

bvanevery

Redshirt who doesn't die
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
1,481
Location
Asheville, NC
#17
I always thought I'd be good as a sniper. Or some "ninja" doing sentry removal. However I've never had any environmental need to exercise my violent side. I am fortunate to have lived in boring times, in the Chinese sense. Just as well, because military commanders will chew you up and spit you out dead, for stupid reasons. Taking orders is pretty much anathema to me. In the Apocalypse I'd make either a good Partisan, or a Hillbilly who simply picks off anyone who gets too close.

I'm not a team player and I'm smarter than most people, so military was never a good career fit. I'm sure there's someone smart in the military, but on average, they call Marines "Grunts" for a reason.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
7
Location
SouthEast-Ish
#18
I am a Veteran, I did four years in the Army as a medic with an infantry unit. Yes I deployed, yes I hated my life and N0, you can't sit with me...

The military is not built for people like us, we think freely, we look outside the box and we especially don't value people who lack critical expertise.

Most people hate their bosses because they didn't get that Friday off they were hoping for or maybe your lunch got screwed over, In the Army people lose arms and legs because of poor decisions made and a lack of training.

With that being said... The military showed me strengths I did not know I possessed, it hardened aspects of my character that will help me for the rest of my life. I also won't be in debt when I finish college like most people so it has it's perks but you'll need to do a lot of weighing before you come to a conclusion.

Respectfully, go for a soft military branch. If you want to take your licks like a man in a public tar and feathering ritual join the Marines or the Army, if you want a latte, a great resume and a 401k look at the Air force or the Navy.

I am not pointing fingers or poking fun at other branches, I am just being honest.

Also, don't laugh... Master the ASVAB test before signing anything. Your ASVAB score is what unlocks your military careers and potential, get a bad score and you'll be driving the trucks that manually locate bombs, get a good score and you'll spend time with the pretty nurses in a hospital setting wearing scrubs. Get it?

Respectfully,
Lifesaver
 

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
3,092
#20
Oh, the US Army. So glad that shit is over now. It's just a bureaucracy of inane, monotonous, and constantly demoralizing bullshit.

I was a radar repairer. So they put radar operators in charge of me. Had no support from anyone. My equipment would break and I'd get excuses from leadership and command about why the equipment can't be fixed or replaced. Their solution was for me to buy my own tools. But it didn't matter anyway. If the radar was broken, it was always more important for me to pull a duty or do a detail like staff duty or cutting grass. And after awhile I didn't care any more. When I left all the radar's were broken and they wouldn't let me fix them anyway, so in my mind I was thinking "good riddance you fuckers".

And I had about 8 large toolboxes full of random shit including a fucking lantern from WW2 that all had to be laid out once a month...perfectly...or the commander would flip his shit. Every fucking little wrench and screwdriver had to be painstakingly lined up for some dumbass infantry commander to measure how long a fucking screwdriver was. And he'd measure it and be like "Oh this is 4 1/2 and not 5, so it's not the right item"...It got to the point where my NCO wanted everything bagged and tagged so it could be easily laid out; and then he said that we should never use the tools so the layouts will always be perfect...I shit you not.

Then you have the promotion system. You go in front of a board and answer questions relating to Army doctrine and bureaucracy. They do not give a shit if you know your job or know how to be a leader. They just want to hear you recite a fucking creed and all the Army regulations and programs. You also get to go to a lovely "leadership" school that cares about marching, using a fucking compass and navigating (real hard, right?), Army regulations, and public speaking that they grade with a list of inane and highly detailed requirements.

Then there's your actual leadership. They will tell you that "false motivation" is better than actually having motivation. In other words, they don't give a shit about morale, they just want you to appear to have it. Real intelligent. They will talk down to you and treat you like a strict parent to a child because that's what the Army wants for some reason. If someone does something stupid or messed up, everyone gets talked to. And you can't tell them to fuck off or they will just claim insubordination and force you to listen to them more. The most frustrating thing is when they are wrong, you call them out on it, they will still tell you why you are wrong and you will always be wrong and nothing you can do will change that; all it will do is get you in trouble or have to listen to another "heart-to-heart" bullshit talking where you decide to masochistically torture yourself by intently listening to them, just so you don't have 30 days of extra duty. Some of the leadership will be really strict and make little tasks into a big ordeal and endless lecturing about how to do something like turn a wrench. Other leadership won't do their fucking job, like they are afraid of higher ranks and you'll be the one trying to tell a sergeant first class or 1sgt why you can't do what they ask or trying to figure out how to accomplish something with their help.

Paperwork. Holy shit. Every month your NCOs have to do a sit-down heart-to-heart and tell you what kind of things they think you are doing right or wrong and suggest "improvement". I used to tell them I don't care and I'll just sign the counseling and they'd get mad at me. There's always some annoying training or retraining you have to do online, but since the army contracts everything to the lowest bidders, the systems don't always work right. You have to fuck with anything electronic you do to get it to work right. Most of the time you have to use outdated software to do anything online or do some trick to get something to load and register right. And you need to use a special card to login to the system, which for some reason will just not work sometimes. Really great when you need to do something important and time-sensitive. Even something that should be simple, like dispatching a humvee or putting in for leave requires a lot of paperwork to be filled out. So you want to dispatch a humvee. First you need to check your vehicle for any problems and note it on a special form. Then you need to start the paperwork and track down a mechanic to check that you have all your "safety equipment" with the truck. Then you need to track down their supervisor to sign off that the mechanic checked and filled out the paperwork right. After that, you need to track down someone in the motorpool that does dispatches. If anything is wrong it needs to be fixed. They need to start the dispatch process. Now you need to get the commander or exo to sign the damn dispatch. Good luck finding either one because they are usually busy. Now the dispatch goes back to the dispatch personnel and they finalize everything and send it back to the commander for final approval. So you wanted to go on leave? You need to have all your online training done, valid weapons and PT cards, and have all your personal information up-to-date in S1. And after all that, sometimes the leave would get lost or it wouldn't get signed, until days before you were expecting to leave, so now you're not sure you can even go at all. And you couldn't even trust them to hold on to the signed leave form; you'd have to ask for it and copy it because sometimes it would get "lost" and you then wouldn't be able to go on leave.

Then there's actual "training". For some reason, even though I wasn't a combat mos and was supposed to just have an M16 or M4, my unit wanted me to have an M240 machine gun. The ammo is more expensive and special, so they'd never have ammo, but they'd want me to qualify. So I remember one range where I just sat around for 3 days waiting for them to get ammo from another unit. It got to the point where I was being told to put 5.56mm rounds into my 240 that expects 7.62mm. I of course said fuck no. That shit probably would have exploded the barrel and perhaps the bolt mechanism and my face as a result, if it fired at all. Anyway, that's not even the most brilliant part. For some reason in their infinite wisdom they would always have the 50 cal weapons fire on the targets first. They would decimate the targets to the point that anyone with smaller rounds wouldn't be able to register a hit on the targets. But they would keep expecting you to try and qualify. It got to the point where I just went out there and fired all my rounds on one target to make a point that we couldn't fucking hit them. They still didn't get it. Eventually they decided you could qualify on non-moving paper targets and that that was good enough, but wow. And they would lie to about shit they weren't supposed to do. If you were forced on a meal plan to eat in the dfac, they were supposed to provide meals during training for you. They would say they were and then not do it and you just wouldn't eat. I remember sitting on a land nav course setting up points and eating berries all day because they didn't bring food and wouldn't let us leave. Eventually your NCOs would just tell you to bring your own meals because they knew the leadership would lie and you wouldn't get reimbursed for it. I mean you could get reimbursed, but it meant filling out endless paperwork that your commander had to approve every time you missed any meals. And something simple like taking people off the meal plan is always denied because the dfac expects that money to "survive" and fund the dfac.

If you join as enlisted, expect NCOs to take time off from work to get personal shit done, but not let you do it because you need to be working. And if you are single and a sergeant or below, you have to stay in shitty barracks and they take some of your money and give it to the dfac, while married people get a lot of money for housing and food, a lot of which they pocket and save or spend how they like. Your family wants to visit you? Well, if you are single they can't and have to stay in a hotel, but if you're married you get a nice house. Some married will actually buy a house with the money they get and sell it when they leave after 3 years at a duty station. As long as the value of the house stays relatively the same, they can pocket that money when they sell the house. And every time a weekend rolls around you have to sit and get lectured about how you're not supposed to beat people and animals and do drugs and shit like that for sometimes up to 30 minutes. I think they try and think of everything that anyone has ever done wrong and try to give a long-ass briefing that covers their ass in case you do get in trouble over the weekend. It's so annoying, especially when you've been sleep-deprived all week and all you want them to do is shut up and let you leave and go to fucking sleep.

And if you join, I hope you like sitting at a desk for 24 hours straight playing with your thumbs. Sometimes you get to do this on the weekend. The best part is when someone else is supposed to pull duty, but they can't for whatever reason and suddenly your pulling their shift on top of your own that you're going to pull next weekend. Really great. You will always be sleep deprived. If you aren't getting up around 5am, it's 3 or 4am. And if it's not 3 or 4, it's 2am. I remember being in training and getting off late to only go to sleep around midnight, waking up at 2am to ruck for 12 miles. Mind you, this is after weeks of being sleep-deprived and physically exhausted and meal deprived.

And don't even get me started on JRTC or NTC. That's where you really get to see how genuinely fucked up your unit is. I'll just say my experience was terrible; the command team had no clue how to do anything and used our radar like it was a recon vehicle. They assumed everything on the battlefield and moved all of the anti-tank weaponry away from the command post, only to get taken over by two light tanks. The opposing force was told to "take it easy" on us two days into the pretend war. Our radar wasn't even aligned and was off by about 180degrees for 90% of the exercise. The only reason it got noticed was because an operator noticed something was off and asked me to look at it and I found out it was misaligned. And the day after that they used that radar to clear airspace for live artillery fire...if I hadn't fixed the alignment they would have been shooting artillery at or around their own helos. And that's the other thing, that operator knew the equipment better than the warrant officer in charge of their air defense. He worked that guy into the ground saving his ass and in the end the operator got nothing for it, except blame for whatever was the warrant officer's fault. I remember he was going to tell the warrant that I fixed the radar and I told him not to because then I would have been in his position. The only positive was seeing a four star general yell at a full bird colonel and every officer under him, telling them how they wasted millions of dollars and have no idea how to fight a war. Suffice to say, that brigade is no longer deployable, thankfully.

Oh yeah and then there's Army "Training Doctrine" where you get treated like a prisoner and forced to do silly things like obsessively clean the barracks all weekend because suddenly you're a piece of shit for accidentally leaving a sock on the floor when you left that morning in a hurry to get to class so you wouldn't get in trouble in the first place. I remember actually getting privileges to leave the place we were at on the weekends and they would try and find ways to take it away. So we put down that we were going into the city one saturday, to get a call saying we had to come back to the barracks because we weren't specific about where we were. So we come back and get yelled at and put on extra duty for two weeks. Really fucking stupid.

Add on top of the fact that there's a lot of psychopaths, adult children, and sadistic assholes you probably won't relate with very much, it's all very frustrating. In the end, even doing my job, which was my only motivation to care about anything, I wasn't allowed to do. I told my commander I just wanted to do my job and asked if he could move me somewhere else and he just denied me, but said I could go to "behavioral health" and tell them I'm miserable and I could get chaptered out of the Army. That's the kind of shit they do. Now granted, supposedly I was at one of the worst units in the Army; at least that's what everyone kept telling me and you may not have this kind of experience, but just don't risk it, unless you want to go crazy like I did. Just don't join the Army. If you must join the military and want to get into ROTC, GO AIR FORCE. They at least care if you know and do your job and supposedly the leadership is more down to earth and less ocd and retarded.
 

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
Joined
Mar 14, 2010
Messages
3,092
#22
^ I don't think that would. Reminds me of the time we were doing a training exercise with all our gear on and it was like 30degrees outside. You weren't allowed to sleep in the trucks and you had to sleep in a designated sleeping area, except the bright geniuses in charge never bothered to make a sleeping area. So basically if you were caught sleeping it was an article 15 and extra duty, but you needed to sleep. So I draped the radar and hide under it and tried to fall asleep when it was freezing outside. And I remember wanting to shoot everyone and blow my brains out, but we only had blanks. After that I didn't give a shit about anything.

Ironically, basic training was probably the most enjoyable part of being in the military. You got to actually do shit and a lot of it was funny; the drill sergeants actually gave a shit about making sure you knew combat basics. And they knew how to be funny in good humor. But I also got the feeling that I had intelligent drill sergeants. As an example, one day I got really pissed; it was just an accumulation of a lot of things and then suddenly I was just mad. So we were marching back and I wasn't marching right or something and he looked at me like he was going to do something and I gave him a massively threatening look. He looked away and then walked away. I always wondered why he did that because if someone had gotten mad about something they had no problem making them look stupid in front of everyone. But I think he knew this was different, as if challenging me would have only made it worse. And it was the right decision because I wasn't mad for long. It's kind of cool.

That guy was a little crazy though. He always wore gloves and made SFC in 7 years as infantry, which usually means a lot of people had to die for you to get there that fast. He told us one time one of his buddies was held at gunpoint and he couldn't shoot the guy; so his buddy shot through himself to kill the guy, killing himself. Apparently, it didn't kill the other dude and this drill sergeant said he beat the shit out of him, tearing up his hands. Then another time his truck was flipped over by an ied and he said he had to claw away the dirt to get out of the truck and messed up his hands. So now he always wears gloves, lol. Like literally, ALWAYS. And I doubt he was lying because he only told us after being asked about 50 times why he wears gloves and he would always get serious and say "don't worry about it". I think it's pretty funny, but then again I'm not really averse to violence; I'm not a violent person, but the visceral has always been something that excites and intrigues me. I think that was actually a large reason why I even considered the military, despite being so at odds with it.
 

bvanevery

Redshirt who doesn't die
Joined
Jan 3, 2016
Messages
1,481
Location
Asheville, NC
#23
But I think he knew this was different, as if challenging me would have only made it worse. And it was the right decision because I wasn't mad for long. It's kind of cool.
This may give a bit more context for a story a somewhat mentally slow, maybe a bit PTSD ex-Marine told me. Just after I nearly got in a fight with him in a homeless lunch line. I did think to apologize to him later, nothing to lose, and he took the apology. So anyways, he says these guys in the corps were bugging him, and bugging him, and bugging him. That he begged them to leave him alone. Then one day he snapped, knocked one his tormentors down, and killed him with a knife. He told the story in a way that was highly credible to me. If he was acting, it was a damn good act. He also demonstrated the technique with which he had intended to take me down, were we to fight. I don't think it would have worked on me, but it would have on most people, and was evidence that he was definitely trained.

So yeah I guess that's a real life "beginning of Full Metal Jacket".
 

Reluctantly

Resident disMember
Joined
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#24
Huh. So assuming he wasn't lying, did he get the insanity plea then? Cause normally you go to military prison for a long time. God that would be annoying; the thing that drives you mad imprisons you for twenty glorious years. Can't even imagine.
 

bvanevery

Redshirt who doesn't die
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#25
He may very well have gone to military prison for a long time. He was an older black man, walking with a bit of a limp. Still muscular, and he may indeed have been "all that" back in the day. Could still be dangerous in H2H now for all I know. When you get a story like that from someone, you don't belabor the friendly details. 20 minutes ago he had wanted to knock the tar out of me. My mortal offense was reaching over his food to get a napkin, at a lunch counter window where there wasn't much room. Taught me to mind my body space around homeless people, and if someone does say something provocative, try not to sass back. It only makes things worse.
 

Rixus

I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
Joined
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#26
I haven't served in the military. Although I was pushed to by my stepfather, who claimed that with my (apparently) complete lack of creativity, common sense, ability to think freely or understand anything other than memorising facts, I should join the military. In an effort to appease his opinions of me and find out if it was a good idea, I joined the Cadets in my mid teens. Although I learned some interesting skills (such as the use of assault rifles, abseiling, kayaking, piloting a low powered aircraft) and was able to navigate assault course better than most (mainly because I didn't fall off the obstacles), I decided that the experience of someone screaming in my face for no apparent reason, throwing my bedding across the room because my hospital corners were not perfect and the idea of doing exactly as I'm told without question was not the life for me.

My brother is an ISTP. He actually did join the army. He believes it turned him from a boy into a man. Unfortunately, I do not believe this to be the case. He lost the confidence to think for himself and act without a team, and basically he lost all confidence that wasn't tied in to his uniform. I felt kind of sorry for him. He tried his best to fit in with all the extroverts that surrounded him, but just couldn't do it. It was as if he was trying to imitate the crass humour but didn't understand when and how to use it, so generally was even worse off socially than I.

His commanders usually didn't understand him or like him and he ended up being transferred away from the Engineering Corps that he enjoyed into bomb disposal. He left after 12 years and has since worked as a security guard (even though I've always told him he had a flare for electronics and could have made a killing if he offered a repair service). I think some people belong in the army, and some people don't.

I have no problem admitting that I don't belong in the military and would not be able to adapt to the life there.
 

Pizzabeak

Guardians of the galaxy
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
1,699
#27
I wouldn't join the military unless it was a high decent paying position that was stress free more or less but it's hard so to speak to come across, and probably too late now to join besides an infantry position or something in the AF or something similar. The military isn't an INTP's pace perhaps. But there are probably some that could do good in it. It might mainly be for Fi types or lead perception. It's a very Si activity so you might find good ones with strong use in there.

Apparently my dad was in the army. He turned out well I guess, not crazy but for some charges with law and some orders here and there I guess but probably isn't crazy in the traditional sense. He enjoys art. I talked to him about joining and he said yeah but when I've asked other people the advice is usually no. It's wrong. But I know some people and they put up with it. It's like taking classes at the community college.

You can try for some of the more behind the scenes or intelligence work but like I said it may be more of a challenge, not that it couldn't be put up with. I'm not glad that I didn't join the military. But you can have a punk like attitude which is anti-government. A successful military career is worth the risk. As a job you get some amount of freedom. It's the definition of your country. It's better if it isn't an end of the road option thing.

There is no real end to it. Sometimes it seems like a good idea, sometimes a bad one. Depends on who and what you are. And for INTPs it can be highly variable.
 

Reluctantly

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#28
I haven't served in the military. Although I was pushed to by my stepfather, who claimed that with my (apparently) complete lack of creativity, common sense, ability to think freely or understand anything other than memorising facts, I should join the military.
Jesus, your stepfather really thought highly of you, huh? I guess I'm of the opinion that those are not the type of people that should be in the military. You don't want a military full of people that only know how to take orders and can't think for themselves because they don't know how to adapt well to changes in rank or structure or anything outside of what they've been told to think. But I guess that does seem to be what they want.

In an effort to appease his opinions of me and find out if it was a good idea, I joined the Cadets in my mid teens. Although I learned some interesting skills (such as the use of assault rifles, abseiling, kayaking, piloting a low powered aircraft) and was able to navigate assault course better than most (mainly because I didn't fall off the obstacles), I decided that the experience of someone screaming in my face for no apparent reason, throwing my bedding across the room because my hospital corners were not perfect and the idea of doing exactly as I'm told without question was not the life for me.
There was really only one thing I did in the Army that I thought was fun. Air Assault was cool. I mean it was a little annoying because you had to sound off with "air assault" whenever your right foot hit the ground, but it was also kind of funny to see everyone talking like an idiot. The obstacle course required some intelligence because they would make sure your body was so tired that you couldn't brute force it. But rappelling off helicopters and towers was a lot of fun. But then again I was the type of person that would jump out and go down as fast as I could, only bringing in my rappel arm toward the bottom. It's funny because a lot of people get scared and smack the bottom of the helicopter or come down real slow. I think maybe I should have tried for special forces or gone to sniper school sometimes. I'm physically fit, can think on my feet, and usually score perfect with whatever gun I'm using (unless I get lazy and forget to shoot a target or get into an awkward position that I don't care to fix). I just didn't like the sound of running on say two hours of sleep day after day for a week or two and a lot of those people are in olympic athlete kind of shape. So I never tried.

I wouldn't join the military unless it was a high decent paying position that was stress free more or less but it's hard so to speak to come across, and probably too late now to join besides an infantry position or something in the AF or something similar. The military isn't an INTP's pace perhaps. But there are probably some that could do good in it. It might mainly be for Fi types or lead perception. It's a very Si activity so you might find good ones with strong use in there.
Stress free is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it? Maybe the air force is a bit different; as long as you aren't a loader for the planes or an MP it might be pretty chill. Never heard anyone talk bad about the air force, unless they were an MP or their sole just was to load and unload the cargo on the planes.

You know, my experience didn't confirm that it's an Si activity or even Fi all that much. Some leadership are really ocd about doing everything a certain way, but then others didn't care so much and let you do things as best you could. Then again, we weren't focused on combat, so maybe that had something to do with it; and a lot of us were kind of oddballs - high asvab scores and no problem thinking about how to do things better or work around the paperwork and such. We used to fix broken tools and equipment or sign people's names to make everything easier on ourselves. The speeches from leadership that I guess were kind of Fi didn't even really have an impact because morale was already so low, it only gave you a feeling of watching a terrible movie with mediocre acting and most of the stuff they'd say had very little relevance to your actual life. We had a 1sgt that used to equate anything people were doing that he didn't like or thought they shouldn't be doing with somebody dying on a battlefield; it didn't matter what it was. It was almost comical. I used to call our division the clown division. All we needed was the red squishy nose. It was the best way to visualize what that place felt like.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Joined
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Charn
#29
Christ, Reluctantly -- your experience sounds like every negative urban legend and bad joke about the army military, then doubling and tripling down on it... Like wtf.... Unbelievable, I had been hoping it was all just overblown but apparently not. Sounds terrible.
 

Rixus

I introverted think. Therefore, I am.
Joined
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#30
Jesus, your stepfather really thought highly of you, huh? I guess I'm of the opinion that those are not the type of people that should be in the military. You don't want a military full of people that only know how to take orders and can't think for themselves because they don't know how to adapt well to changes in rank or structure or anything outside of what they've been told to think. But I guess that does seem to be what they want.
Yeah, my stepfather hated me. (For more information - see my response on the relationship with your parents thread). I think he just thought everyone should join up. Picture an ESTJ prison guard who has a second job as a club bouncer and you can't go far wrong, who also happened to not drink and thought homophobia was laughably stupid. Though he did teach some interesting life lessons (like how ridiculous homophobia is), along with encouraging me to read the memoirs of a German WW2 soldier in order to understand the idea of both sides of war. Or maybe he just thought the stories were really good and I learned that myself.

I mean it's weird that he encouraged that, and yet also insisted I would never be fit like him because academic people couldn't be fit at the same time (funny thing is, i think I could out lift him now ). I think he hated nerds, and that i pretty much was/am.

I'm not sure what people belong in the military, or just don't understand them. That's not to say I don't respect them. I've some pretty decent soldiers and they do do amazing things that I simply cannot. Or maybe don't want to.

There was really only one thing I did in the Army that I thought was fun. Air Assault was cool. I mean it was a little annoying because you had to sound off with "air assault" whenever your right foot hit the ground, but it was also kind of funny to see everyone talking like an idiot. The obstacle course required some intelligence because they would make sure your body was so tired that you couldn't brute force it. But rappelling off helicopters and towers was a lot of fun. But then again I was the type of person that would jump out and go down as fast as I could, only bringing in my rappel arm toward the bottom. It's funny because a lot of people get scared and smack the bottom of the helicopter or come down real slow. I think maybe I should have tried for special forces or gone to sniper school sometimes. I'm physically fit, can think on my feet, and usually score perfect with whatever gun I'm using (unless I get lazy and forget to shoot a target or get into an awkward position that I don't care to fix). I just didn't like the sound of running on say two hours of sleep day after day for a week or two and a lot of those people are in olympic athlete kind of shape. So I never tried.
That's pretty awesome. I once knew a commando who I watched slowly breaststroke an entire length of a swimming pool and was barely out of breath (it must have been about 2 and half minutes) - those guys are insanely fit. They really are amazing.

I only ever got to take controls of a low powered aircraft and an unpowered glider in flight, but it was quite an experience. I did get to be the demonstration once while a helicopter winced me up, strapped me in and performed combat manoeuvres over the airfield. That was cool. I do have some great memories from that time - some of the few good ones I have from my earlier teens. I got to learn lots about how the military works, and I can joke about the fact that I'd have a good chance in a zombie apocalypse as not many British people know which end of a rifle the round comes out of, let alone how to actually use one.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Reluctantly

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#31
Christ, Reluctantly -- your experience sounds like every negative urban legend and bad joke about the army military, then doubling and tripling down on it... Like wtf.... Unbelievable, I had been hoping it was all just overblown but apparently not. Sounds terrible.
yeah...I'm still kind of at disbelief myself. One day I asked myself if there was anything in the Army that wasn't fucked up and the only thing I could think of was that for the benefits I got out of it, my pay wasn't too bad, but I don't know if that really counts because everyone gets paid, unless you get in serious trouble. I mean I saved like 75 grand over 4 years and have a fully rebuilt car that should last a long time. So...I mean that's good...but that was it.

I guess it's kind of funny (well not really) that it wasn't combat or violence or people dying in combat that broke me, but the constant frustration of bad leadership and a twisted bureaucratic system. And it's weird cause I've always felt like I have a strong will, almost on an insane level, but I guess it's all relative now.

Yeah, my stepfather hated me. (For more information - see my response on the relationship with your parents thread). I think he just thought everyone should join up. Picture an ESTJ prison guard who has a second job as a club bouncer and you can't go far wrong, who also happened to not drink and thought homophobia was laughably stupid. Though he did teach some interesting life lessons (like how ridiculous homophobia is), along with encouraging me to read the memoirs of a German WW2 soldier in order to understand the idea of both sides of war. Or maybe he just thought the stories were really good and I learned that myself.

I mean it's weird that he encouraged that, and yet also insisted I would never be fit like him because academic people couldn't be fit at the same time (funny thing is, i think I could out lift him now ). I think he hated nerds, and that i pretty much was/am.
I'm not sure what it is about most people that fall into ESTJ, but when I think of a classic asshole or bully, mostly people I've typed ESTJ come to mind. It's so weird; it's like they think they are hot shit when other people don't measure up to what they are great at. And they have to let you know it. Fucking assholes.

That's pretty awesome. I once knew a commando who I watched slowly breaststroke an entire length of a swimming pool and was barely out of breath (it must have been about 2 and half minutes) - those guys are insanely fit. They really are amazing.
They made us tread water once with full uniform for a period of time after doing a bunch of swimming back and forth (I think it was 2 minutes, but I'm not sure anymore) and then we had to take our pants off and fill it with air to make a floaty. I think special forces has to do this. But I'm slim and toned; so my buoyancy sucks. Got really tired and started choking on water. Tried a backstroke to catch my breath, but once I had to take my pants off, I was in trouble. I even tried holding my breath and removing my pants at the bottom, but then I started drowning. Only thing I ever failed at. And yet all the fat people floated just fine, heh. Turns out having a lot of body fat makes you buoyant.

I wonder how much technique helps though. I don't swim at all and probably wasted a lot of energy with my technique. I guess some people can hold their breath better too and practice can lengthen that time and I think frequently swimming builds up a lot of muscle fibers you don't normally use out of the water too. Not sure. :confused:
 

Redfire

and Blood
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
413
#32
I think it can be a great experience for any man. I was actually thinking about enlisting when I joined this forum; and it would've been great for me to get some structure back then.

Check this out: http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/120398416

For me it's something personal though: I feel like I didn't have good male role models growing up and I feel like a wuss. If you are seriously considering it then don't rush to a decision; particularly considering the global situation right now.
 

Haim

Worlds creator
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
679
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Israel
#33
Great experience does not make it worth it, not worth the suffer nor the wasted time, time which can used for better things.
You can just ask someone to rape you, less time and might be more enjoyable.
 

Reluctantly

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#34
^ Oh, people get raped too. Every couple of months everyone has to sit through SHARP training where you get to watch awkward videos where people get really serious and sad and talk about getting raped or harassed and stuff in the hopes that it will prevent it.

It's really kind of depressing, but if you're a decent looking woman, you'll get attention from every guy; I remember there was this one girl that got a lot of attention when she got to the unit. And so she dated a lot and I guess something happened one day because after that she seemed afraid of people. She would flinch, if you looked at her wrong and she didn't seem to like talking to anyone. I felt bad, but I guess the damage had already been done.
 

bvanevery

Redshirt who doesn't die
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Jan 3, 2016
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#35
I think it can be a great experience for any man.
Christ why don't you just take up something less stressful, like boxing or Muay Thai? Or spend a lot of time at a gun range. Or go survival camping, don't bring any food. Can't believe you'd bother with the military for this shit.