INTP's are becoming obsolete

[Architect]

Got your attention. But actually it's a serious point that has been a theme of my musings on this board for some time. A trend I've noticed during my career has been the obsolescence of knowledge and being smart. The reason is that the Internet is smarter and knows more than you do. When I was hired, I was known for being an expert in these technologies, it even shows up in my job title (promotion to 'expert engineer'). That's almost meaningless now.

For nearly all of the issues I might find during development of a solution to some problem I can find an answer on the internet, usually StackOverflow. No need to be clever, which used to mean taking scarce information and making connections to find an answer (usually using intuition to fill in the gaps in knowledge). Not always, but it's a small degree which will disappear in the next 10 years with the continued exponential growth of knowledge and advanced computing.

In our hiring process, while I don't think anybody is conscious of it, we've shifted from hiring knowledgable people to people who can actually do something. We don't really care what a college hire or experienced person knows (most of the time, unless they're some world leader in the specialized stuff we do), we want to see that they can produce results. We keep rejecting these poor college hires because the kids think they just need to jump through some intellectual hoops, whereas what they really need is a well stuffed GitHub account.

So what's an INTP to do? We like to accumulate knowledge, find connections between them, and draw conclusions and heuristics. Computers already do that better than we do, as evidenced by the best human Jeopardy players being beat by a computer. So what's our role now as INTP's?

I wish I had an answer, but it's one I actively think about. I'll say that one commodity that is still highly prized is the one I indicated above; people who are passionate about something and actually create stuff. Write new software, or whatever. That's about the only skill that computers haven't taken over yet. They will, but we've got some time. Thus I think a lot about the correspondence between thought and result.

 

[Brontosaurie]

SJ's have trouble with that. SJ school system, SJ work-life prestige and trials.

INTP is comfortable at the current informational vantage point, ignoring stuffy detail which panders to dead ancestry. problem is, society runs on detail. society isn't comfortable changing its vantage point; it is conservative and proceeds with disproportionate caution. INTP knows what is actually important right now in what is going on with humanity, and cannot ignore that even though few agree, even when so few agree that it's impossible to turn over in real life success due to the all-permeating inertia. INTP doesn't get affected and conditioned and biased by habit to the same degree. this gives powerful insight potential but is crippling in a retarded world. it is of course paradoxical (loosely). the knowledge of what is important becomes unimportant when it's not allowed an outlet. INTP sucks at harvesting micro-opportunistic power-play. INTP sucks at perpetuating recursive incestual social illness.

knowledge isn't becoming obsolete. a certain mode/level of data is. as always, given human progress (which can be assumed constant though sometimes buffered). more dramatical with the advent of digital computing etc.

claiming that jeopardy is an INTP activity is sheer ludicrousness. just go meta, just find connections and patterns at a higher level that technology allows you too. INTP isn't a data-point-dispenser. that's ISTJ.

INTP is the only kind of guy who has any fucking clue about the ethical implications of foreseeable technological developments as far as i've seen. the prospect of conceptual convergence and combinatorial play is like a blind spot to most people. now i'm being a bit megalomaniac.

this thread is completely wrong. i think you're basing this way too much on your own career. you're getting old right? maybe that's it.

tl;dr: if smart is becoming obsolete, then what about dumb?

 

[Architect]

Please capitalize your sentences.

I think you missed my point otherwise, which is that computers have moved from detailed knowledge into meta-knowledge, which was the Jeopardy point. Both human contestants missed

Answer: "What is a long, tiresome speech delivered by a frothy pie topping?"

The question, which only the computer got was "What is a meringue-harangue?" This is inferential thinking which is what INTP's reputably excel at. In the past computers were only good at the kind of knowledge you seem to say is SJ domain - detailed and factual. Now it's gone far beyond that and will continue.

now i'm being a bit megalomaniac.

Indeed.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I think you missed my point otherwise, which is that computers have moved from detailed knowledge into meta-knowledge, which was the Jeopardy point.

how is it impossible to meta-analyze the computer capacity to meta-analyze?

ultimately we are just a flesh launch-rocket anyway. humanity is way bigger than humans.

The question, which only the computer got was "What is a meringue-harangue?" This is inferential thinking which is what INTP's reputably excel at. In the past computers were only good at the kind of knowledge you seem to say is SJ domain - detailed and factual. Now it's gone far beyond that and will continue.

i'd hesitate to call that a display of typical INTP ingenuity. INTP ingenuity would lie in abandoning that kind of inferential thinking which is technologically obsolete in favor of another unknown one; squeezing them brain cells in accordance with an honest appreciation of what matters - at a grander scale, to the current state in humanity as an unfolding process.

the task you describe is still more of a database-grinding kind of thing. but that's irrelevant as i fully accept your extrapolation/prognosis.

Indeed.

but it's completely ok since i admit it. no problem. great.

 

[Analyzer]

I would re-frame this as INTP's are becoming superfluous rather than obsolete. Perhaps we have always been this way.

The fact of the matter is that there is exists a knowledge problem in society. Read Hayek and you'll know what I'm talking about. The more tools(computers) advance and add to this knowledge, the more knowledge needs to analyzed going into a more higher and meta level. Dispersed knowledge and the network effect is real and no computer will be able to calculate/understand everything. It takes a different type of thinking. I equate computers with SJ type thinking.

 

[Analyzer]

INTP is comfortable at the current informational vantage point, ignoring stuffy detail which panders to dead ancestry. problem is, society runs on detail. society isn't comfortable changing its vantage point; it is conservative and proceeds with disproportionate caution. INTP knows what is actually important right now in what is going on with humanity, and cannot ignore that even though few agree, even when so few agree that it's impossible to turn over in real life success due to the all-permeating inertia. INTP doesn't get affected and conditioned and biased by habit to the same degree. this gives powerful insight potential but is crippling in a retarded world. it is of course paradoxical (loosely). the knowledge of what is important becomes unimportant when it's not allowed an outlet. INTP sucks at harvesting micro-opportunistic power-play. INTP sucks at perpetuating recursive incestual social illness.
?

You have summarized the problem INTP's face.

 

[Brontosaurie]

you've recommended hayek twice now, i better bite it.

 

[Analyzer]

you've recommended hayek twice now, better bite it.

He was probably an INTP as it seems that few people understand the importance of his thoughts.

Today it is almost heresy to suggest that scientific knowledge is not the sum of all knowledge. But a little reflection will show that there is beyond question a body of very important but unorganized knowledge which cannot possibly be called scientific in the sense of knowledge of general rules: the knowledge of the particular circumstances of time and place. It is with respect to this that practically every individual has some advantage over all others because he possesses unique information of which beneficial use might be made, but of which use can be made only if the decisions depending on it are left to him or are made with his active coöperation. We need to remember only how much we have to learn in any occupation after we have completed our theoretical training, how big a part of our working life we spend learning particular jobs, and how valuable an asset in all walks of life is knowledge of people, of local conditions, and of special circumstances. To know of and put to use a machine not fully employed, or somebody's skill which could be better utilized, or to be aware of a surplus stock which can be drawn upon during an interruption of supplies, is socially quite as useful as the knowledge of better alternative techniques. And the shipper who earns his living from using otherwise empty or half-filled journeys of tramp-steamers, or the estate agent whose whole knowledge is almost exclusively one of temporary opportunities, or the arbitrageur who gains from local differences of commodity prices, are all performing eminently useful functions based on special knowledge of circumstances of the fleeting moment not known to others

 

[Anktark]

From the same perspective, so are all other personality types.

It's ok, we had a good run.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

How about you tell us how you really feel?

We could just level everything back to the stone age and start over. Then we'd all be useful to everyone provided we weren't systematically exterminated.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Stackoverflow and Github are only tools. It is what you do with your tools at hand that determines your pay grade. I find those two sites to be excellent when I am hacking new languages into my projects.

 

[Inquisitor]

We keep rejecting these poor college hires because the kids think they just need to jump through some intellectual hoops, whereas what they really need is a well stuffed GitHub account...I'll say that one commodity that is still highly prized is the one I indicated above; people who are passionate about something and actually create stuff. Write new software, or whatever. That's about the only skill that computers haven't taken over yet.

Does this mean you've changed your mind about recommending software engineering as the career of choice for INTPs? What do you mean by a well-stuffed GitHub account? Given what you just said, what's your advice for people who are trying not only to break in but do well in the field?

Spoiler

SJ's have trouble with that. SJ school system, SJ work-life prestige and trials.

INTP is comfortable at the current informational vantage point, ignoring stuffy detail which panders to dead ancestry. problem is, society runs on detail. society isn't comfortable changing its vantage point; it is conservative and proceeds with disproportionate caution. INTP knows what is actually important right now in what is going on with humanity, and cannot ignore that even though few agree, even when so few agree that it's impossible to turn over in real life success due to the all-permeating inertia. INTP doesn't get affected and conditioned and biased by habit to the same degree. this gives powerful insight potential but is crippling in a retarded world. it is of course paradoxical (loosely). the knowledge of what is important becomes unimportant when it's not allowed an outlet. INTP sucks at harvesting micro-opportunistic power-play. INTP sucks at perpetuating recursive incestual social illness.

knowledge isn't becoming obsolete. a certain mode/level of data is. as always, given human progress (which can be assumed constant though sometimes buffered). more dramatical with the advent of digital computing etc.

claiming that jeopardy is an INTP activity is sheer ludicrousness. just go meta, just find connections and patterns at a higher level that technology allows you too. INTP isn't a data-point-dispenser. that's ISTJ.

INTP is the only kind of guy who has any fucking clue about the ethical implications of foreseeable technological developments as far as i've seen. the prospect of conceptual convergence and combinatorial play is like a blind spot to most people. now i'm being a bit megalomaniac.

this thread is completely wrong. i think you're basing this way too much on your own career. you're getting old right? maybe that's it.

tl;dr: if smart is becoming obsolete, then what about dumb?

Bronto, it would be a lot easier to like you if you just spoke simply and plainly. Buried within this obtuse catastrophe of a post that uses unnecessarily complex phrases and vocabulary are actually some fairly good observations. For god's sake man, why can't you just talk normally?! I know you're a smart guy. If you understand something well, you can explain it succinctly and using plain language.

Stackoverflow and Github are only tools. It is what you do with your tools at hand that determines your pay grade. I find those two sites to be excellent when I am hacking new languages into my projects.

Proxy what's your take on this? Do you also fear obsolescence?

 

[Brontosaurie]

Bronto, it would be a lot easier to like you if you just spoke simply and plainly. Buried within this obtuse catastrophe of a post that uses unnecessarily complex phrases and vocabulary are actually some fairly good observations. For god's sake man, why can't you just talk normally?! I know you're a smart guy. If you understand something well, you can explain it succinctly and using plain language.

i don't perceive myself as talking non-normally and i put a lot of effort into making sense and covering all potential objections in order to produce a functioning argument. i also try to use a language that captures some essence of whatever chain of association occurred in my mind, rather than translating it entirely to an accepted framework; this in order to preserve potential implications of various analytical contexts and angles. to put that succinctly, i suppose i have some dormant aspirations to being a writer which are channeled through my forum posts.

but english also isn't my native language and sometimes the more natural and simple phrasing escapes me which results in the production of a construed and messed-up sentence.

i don't tend to understand things well. i'm all confused, i bounce around among conceptual attractors and try to provide a cause for them.

your feedback is appreciated. megalomania continues.

 

[Inquisitor]

Spoiler

i don't perceive myself as talking non-normally and i put a lot of effort into making sense and covering all potential objections in order to produce a functioning argument.

This is clear language. Easy to understand and to the point.

i also try to use a language that captures some essence of whatever chain of association occurred in my mind, rather than translating it entirely to an accepted framework; this in order to preserve potential implications of various analytical contexts and angles.

The first clause in that very long sentence makes sense, but then it goes downhill from there. What "accepted framework" are you talking about? What does this even mean? You lost me on the last clause.

to put that succinctly, i suppose i have some dormant aspirations to being a writer which are channeled through my forum posts.

If I may...I'm an ESL teacher. I correct other people's writing for a living and have been doing so for many years now. Good writing is clear, succinct, to the point, and uses simple vocabulary. Also, I second Architect's suggestion of using proper capitalization. The role of Ti is to reduce everything down to the bare essentials. You're going the other way in your writing, it's a like tree branching out in a zillion different directions. Very difficult to follow what you're saying. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Then I'll be able to understand the essence of your ideas. And I want to.

but english also isn't my native language and sometimes the more natural and simple phrasing escapes me which results in the production of a construed and messed-up sentence.

Hmm. Ok. What is your native language?

i don't tend to understand things well. i'm all confused, i bounce around among conceptual attractors and try to provide a cause for them.

I don't believe you're confused. If you are indeed INTP, confusion is most definitely not one of our traits. INTPs may be misguided, but they understand abstract concepts unusually well, and you seem to have no problems in this area.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Spoiler

The first clause in that very long sentence makes sense, but then it goes downhill from there. What "accepted framework" are you talking about? What does this even mean? You lost me on the last clause.

OOPS i did it again

i refer to accepted verbal frameworks in general. it's not necessarily something institutionally or formally required, but a conventional way of treating a subject or the other verbally. a discourse, perhaps. i feel they deserve a challenge and i can't help reflecting that in my posts whenever i get the chance, at whatever scale.

If I may...I'm an ESL teacher. I correct other people's writing for a living and have been doing so for many years now. Good writing is clear, succinct, to the point, and uses simple vocabulary. Also, I second Architect's suggestion of using proper capitalization. The role of Ti is to reduce everything down to the bare essentials. You're going the other way in your writing, it's a like tree branching out in a zillion different directions. Very difficult to follow what you're saying. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Then I'll be able to understand the essence of your ideas. And I want to.

hah that's awesome you taking some time for me and my writing then.

EditorOne who writes (wrote?) for a living has said things similar to what you're saying. i suppose you're profoundly right and would agree - under many, but not all, circumstances. i believe there's also something to be said for stream-of-consciousness that preserves the nuance and open-endedness of unconscious associative reasoning. of course it's not optimal for reaching out to a target audience. what are your thoughts on this?

Hmm. Ok. What is your native language?

I don't believe you're confused. If you are indeed INTP, confusion is most definitely not one of our traits. INTPs may be misguided, but they understand abstract concepts unusually well, and you seem to have no problems in this area.

my native language is swedish.

i enjoy going into a confusion and trying to break conceptual ground, however vain and silly it may be given the scope and context. if a subject or analytic angle doesn't connect to the prospect of challenging some accepted notion, it's completely dead to me. this is regardless of what type i belong to. i do not linger and elaborate on logical justifications and knowledge domains themselves. i form and nurture conceptual complexes. sequential logic is an aid and something i deeply respect, but i won't shun a hunch that i can't spell out in logical terms. rather, i'll pursue it. eventually, a logic will emerge just from dwelling on the concept. but understanding is a different thing. understanding means being capable of controlled recall and explication, and entails a firm confidence in the material itself and ones presentation of it, as well as the validity of all theoretical assumptions underlying it. i have to take a mental roller-coaster of discovery and self-doubt each time. maybe that's a subjective bias.

how would you rate that last paragraph in terms of the problem you observed?

 

[Black Rose]

the one thing people have advantage of over computers is working together. if an INTP can solve a problem that necessitates being directed by a goal then that goal is necessarily an overview of a group dynamic for the client. what people need and how the product is used. a meta perspective would be that people may use it that can not be foreseen with a standard input output format that is a computer may know only input and output but an INTP can see that the influences of such a system interaction with people will produce novelties that do not follow from expert systems. of course the problems that are not categorized beforehand have no standard models. new models that have implications that no computer can know them. and even when it comes to programs that can have a limited scope the instructions they follow are not human oriented. INTPs have the ability to understand recursive problems not just input and output.

machine intelligence happens in steps
right now they are working on perception
they have yet to develop programs with frontal lobes

 

[Pyropyro]

I think immature INTP's rather than the general INTP's will find themselves obsolete if they don't adapt. I'm speaking for my generation (millennials) whose members are relatively self-entitled.

The Internet makes it easier for employers to find promising hires. Gone are the days when people tolerate prima donnas because they can't find a better candidate. An anti-social INTx will find themselves replaced with more tolerable ISTx who also happens to get sh*t done.

I think immature INTP's should also develop their networking and social skills. In this day and age, networking is king and one will sometimes find out that their value is greatly influenced by the people that they know.

If the INTP aims to duke it out with sheer talent then they should hone their google searching skills. Even though info is abundant through the net, the capability to find the relevant info in the shortest amount of time isn't.

 

[crippli]

Eww. Now I got sober.

As we move towards a more virtual reality. INTPs should feel right at home. Existence through the mind. Maybe it's even in the near future the INTPs will blossom and become society.

But let's say INTPs apparently becomes obsolete, at least in the view of the crowds.
People will still need food, right? And as technology progresses, the farmer may be able to produce food solely through the computer, and as such will have the world eating from their hand. could be quite the problem free setup for the INTP. Have all sorts of delicacies produced for the masses through the architecture of the INTP in the basement. I wonder who will be the hero if it becomes known who is behind all this pleasure that is to be had.

The INTP have always been the foundations of society. And I suspect always will. One way or the other the architect will do architecture.

 

[redbaron]

It's always been the status quo to hire people who do shit as opposed to people who are smart because the reason you hire people is because you need them to do shit.

I support the way most industries are moving away from hiring college graduates in lieu of people who can demonstrate real capabilities. Education has by and large become a money-driven business in lots of places. In Australia there's 3 entry-level legal jobs for every 100 law graduates, and of those 3 even less will actually become lawyers.

Yet nobody tells people those figures when they start telling kids as young as 14-15 that they need to start deciding which university course they're going to study.

For most people, a degree is the equivalent of confetti. Really, really expensive confetti.

 

[kat6]

For most people, a degree is the equivalent of confetti. Really, really expensive confetti.

That's deep man...

 

[Inquisitor]

OOPS i did it again

i refer to accepted verbal frameworks in general. it's not necessarily something institutionally or formally required, but a conventional way of treating a subject or the other verbally. a discourse, perhaps. i feel they deserve a challenge and i can't help reflecting that in my posts whenever i get the chance, at whatever scale.

Ok. Fine.

hah that's awesome you taking some time for me and my writing then.

EditorOne who writes (wrote?) for a living has said things similar to what you're saying. i suppose you're profoundly right and would agree - under many, but not all, circumstances. i believe there's also something to be said for stream-of-consciousness that preserves the nuance and open-endedness of unconscious associative reasoning. of course it's not optimal for reaching out to a target audience. what are your thoughts on this?

Depends on whether you actually want people to read what you write or if you're just exploring your own thoughts on a topic and you don't give two sh*ts about whether anyone reads it. If it's the latter then I would say use stream-of-consciousness which basically = verbal diarrhea all over the page. If it's the former, then it has to be concise.

my native language is swedish.

I know they speak English in Sweden, but your English is still damn good.

i enjoy going into a confusion and trying to break conceptual ground, however vain and silly it may be given the scope and context. if a subject or analytic angle doesn't connect to the prospect of challenging some accepted notion, it's completely dead to me. this is regardless of what type i belong to. i do not linger and elaborate on logical justifications and knowledge domains themselves. i form and nurture conceptual complexes. sequential logic is an aid and something i deeply respect, but i won't shun a hunch that i can't spell out in logical terms. rather, i'll pursue it. eventually, a logic will emerge just from dwelling on the concept. but understanding is a different thing. understanding means being capable of controlled recall and explication, and entails a firm confidence in the material itself and ones presentation of it, as well as the validity of all theoretical assumptions underlying it. i have to take a mental roller-coaster of discovery and self-doubt each time. maybe that's a subjective bias.

how would you rate that last paragraph in terms of the problem you observed?

Better. I disagree with you though that "sequential logic" precludes challenging accepted notions. It's easier for the reader to follow what you're saying if there's a clear line of reasoning. Personally, I skip over posts that don't have an obvious point or conclusion. I browse these forums A) because it's fun B) I want to learn how to live a happier life as an INTP and C) I enjoy the process of distilling the essence of what I think into cogent writing. Don't know about other people here, but I would assume they have similar aims.

understanding means being capable of controlled recall and explication, and entails a firm confidence in the material itself and ones presentation of it, as well as the validity of all theoretical assumptions underlying it

Ok, fine...I think you're making an erroneous assumption here that if you don't understand something 100%, your writing has to be messy and all over the place in order to not miss anything. Again if your goal is to have other people read what you write, it has to be understandable.

 

[ProxyAmenRa]

Proxy what's your take on this? Do you also fear obsolescence?

Computer programmers have a very short working life so I am going to focus on the data science side of things. There will always be a need for statisticians.

 

[Architect]

Does this mean you've changed your mind about recommending software engineering as the career of choice for INTPs? What do you mean by a well-stuffed GitHub account? Given what you just said, what's your advice for people who are trying not only to break in but do well in the field?

No my advice stands. I said 'becoming', and the need for information workers continually increases. My point is that being a lazy philosopher or variation ( ie an expert) is disappearing.

My advice for everybody is to take what you are passionate about and actually do something with it. By GitHub I mean you should be writing a lot of code.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

So what's an INTP to do? We like to accumulate knowledge, find connections between them, and draw conclusions and heuristics. Computers already do that better than we do, as evidenced by the best human Jeopardy players being beat by a computer. So what's our role now as INTP's?

I wish I had an answer, but it's one I actively think about. I'll say that one commodity that is still highly prized is the one I indicated above; people who are passionate about something and actually create stuff. Write new software, or whatever. That's about the only skill that computers haven't taken over yet. They will, but we've got some time. Thus I think a lot about the correspondence between thought and result.

I might add:

-managing people, time, cost in a unique and valuable, i.e. creative, fashion

-devising solutions to fixing the "automated" systems/ technology that inevitably break down.

I've had the same worry to the point of serious daily anxiety in the past. Then I had an epiphany one day when I realized that nothing with technology or the internet or computers is actually automatic. It might seem that way but underneath the facade of the internet, computers, and technology is vast swaths of society going about their daily tasks in their lives and jobs to keep it appearing "automated" (e.g. the electrical engineer facilitating the production and delivery of electricity, the individual editing wikipedia, the computer geeks devoting 24/7 of their lives to continuously refining/ working out the kinks with their computers which beat the Jeopardy/ chess champs, etc etc etc ad nauseum...)

Don't worry INTPs (or OP) problems are what keep INTPs relevant. As long as humans are around, and human nature, problems aren't going anywhere. All these computers and technology in general break down constantly. There is absolutely nothing automatic about them.

A great thing to get into if an INTP is growing up in today's situation, is mechanical engineering and/or robotics

...or move to a nice climate and major in bumming 101.

No worries. There is only so much one INTP or group of INTPs can control. In fact, INTPs as an individual or as a group might not be able to do anything at all whatesoever to control anything anyways LOL!!

We'll all wake up tomorrow and be breathing again just the same as today. Another birthday is just another trip around the sun "completely". No worries mates. Don't let all the spastic worrying of the warm bodies (non thinkers are zombies) all around us be concerning. Everything will work itself out in time...the sky is not falling.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I would re-frame this as INTP's are becoming superfluous rather than obsolete. Perhaps we have always been this way.

The fact of the matter is that there is exists a knowledge problem in society. Read Hayek and you'll know what I'm talking about. The more tools(computers) advance and add to this knowledge, the more knowledge needs to analyzed going into a more higher and meta level. Dispersed knowledge and the network effect is real and no computer will be able to calculate/understand everything. It takes a different type of thinking. I equate computers with SJ type thinking.

This. Especially, "Perhaps [INTPS] have always been this way [i.e. Superfluous]"

No worries, the sky isn't falling. The more things change the more they always, inevitably stay exactly the s___.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

you've recommended hayek twice now, i better bite it.

Hayek?

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

He was probably an INTP as it seems that few people understand the importance of his thoughts.

Hayek?

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

From the same perspective, so are all other personality types.

It's ok, we had a good run.

This LOLOLOLOL!!! Cleverest thing I've heard all month! Esp. in the context of this thread! Damn straight

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

...We could just level everything back to the stone age and start over. Then we'd all be useful to everyone provided we weren't systematically exterminated.

I think this is what has happened/ is happening. J/K! well, mostly J/K

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Bronto, it would be a lot easier to like you if you just spoke simply and plainly. Buried within this obtuse catastrophe of a post that uses unnecessarily complex phrases and vocabulary are actually some fairly good observations. For god's sake man, why can't you just talk normally?! I know you're a smart guy. If you understand something well, you can explain it succinctly and using plain language.

For God's Sake man, he's an INTP not an ESFJ! LOLZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MULMbqQ9LJ8

 

[Rualani]

We better do something with this thread before it becomes obsolete.

On a more serious note, I think that INTPs will find a home in distributing information to the masses in an easy to digest and fun way. This involves working on a little of that external structure, built of people!

Never mind, we're doomed.

 

[Vion]

I have found for every field we are useful in there is an ENTP using the wrong tools and an INTJ over concerned with abstract policy. We are the only NT to occupy the habitat of this logical meta. One needs only aggregate the approaches of others and anticipate their flow of reason.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Next thousand years are all for INTPs. The true problem right now is that we arent smart enough. You can study all your life and still not be smart enough to solve problems. INTPs are indeed needed in all areas of life.

So what's an INTP to do? We like to accumulate knowledge, find connections between them, and draw conclusions and heuristics. Computers already do that better than we do, as evidenced by the best human Jeopardy players being beat by a computer. So what's our role now as INTP's?

I dont see computers replacing human brain power anytime soon. Sure we will delegate some of that mental work to computers, but so far I see no computer in sight that is able to work so self sufficiently to replace humans in all of what we do.

People are way getting ahead of themselves. In theory its possible that one day we will have a computer that will give us all the answers we want. So far? So far we arent even smart enough to keep our civilization up and working.

 

[crippli]

^I agree.

The real problem for humans, not just INTPs are the delusions of control. The planet is the ultimate authority, run by mechanisms outside our comprehension, and by the power of what something is made, will be.

What people don't get, at least far too many, is that the planet use us. Not the other way around. When no longer useful, we are discarded. Who knows what is this planets purpose in the grand mechanism of things? What role does a hydrogen molecule serve in ones fingertip at the hearth of the Local Group?

What is not obselete are big picture thinkers. That is perhaps the few people that may not prevent doom, but at least predict it. So that one can at least be somewhat prepared and really enjoy the last meal.

Computers will be limited to the same restrictions the planet and it's surroundings impose on us. If more brainpower can be invented to reduce our limitations and slavery. I see only good things coming from that. Computers have no ego, so should pose little if any threat.

Does a human with it's brainpower replace bees and ants? Not really, mostly imo creates unbalance. Unbalance will attempt to recreate balance. What are the time perspectives? 1 day, 1 year, 1000 years, a billion years? a trillion years. This will all create different pictures. Maybe a second is as important or non important then a trillion years. Who knows? Why fear what is to come?

Why worry? Why not go with the flow, Why attempt to change things? Is it humans that create machines? Or is it the planet, or the cosmos that create machines? Can an ant not build a colony? A fish not snap a mosquito? Humans not dig for oil?

Humans are not in a much bigger boat then most anything else. Maybe a human opinion on what is obsolete is the opposite of what the larger forces have a need for. Often times it certainly seems that way. Like pawnes on a check board should have an opinion on how they are moved. We know that such a thought is ridiculous. Presidents, politicians and so fourth would be wise to concentrate more on what they do, and less what others do. It is most certainly not clear who is really obsolete. If any.

Either everyone is obsolete, or no one.

 

[Architect]

I dont see computers replacing human brain power anytime soon. Sure we will delegate some of that mental work to computers, but so far I see no computer in sight that is able to work so self sufficiently to replace humans in all of what we do.

I suppose the billions being spent by civilian and military on this is just stupid money then? I'd suggest to work in the field first and then form an opinion. Additionally I'll note that to work in technology you have to be a futurist, because otherwise project planning would be impossible.

 

[ActiveMind]

I think unskilled labor will be eliminated or hugely reduced through basic automation(INTP created?),and the freedom that 3D printers provide will be huge catalysts for the evolution of jobs and how people will live in the future. But at some point, surely we'll need people for space exploration and planetary settlement. Not sure how the INTP goes obsolete in this case...

 

[Sinny91]

INTP's will be high demand after WW3.

 

[StevenM]

I still see hope for INTP's.

I guess there is a small hurdle, because a good part of it is still "it's all in who you know", which denotes a social aspect.

But I think the big thing is about starting small. Metaphorically, you don't buy a new RPG, and start at level 99.

I guess it starts at the very beginning, an amateur, small-time entrepreneur (maybe with a job on the side) and a few close connections. Your cheap, but very enthusiastic in improving, and eager to learn. Make a couple great accomplishments, and some good words in, and your name gets spread around. Opportunities come up. You begin to level up in the game.

Whatever it is you spend 99% of your free time with, talk about it with people, and show them. I guess gossip can be a good thing here.

I don't think professionalism is too hard. It's just a mindset.

Things get done by first visualizing an attainable goal, then seeing all the possible progressions toward achieving it. Put your heart and soul into it.

 

[8151147]

I swear this is something very strange to me. Everytime I read a post, a opinion or thought of Architect, his is exactly to mine. Not really exactly but it just somehow is very the same, just in different moments. Not only him though, sometime I feel like other opinion relate to mine too.

we want to see that they can produce results.

I thought about this about years ago, and I can summary your post to this:

This world doesn't care about what type your are, it is changing and developing, and it force you to live, act, work like a Judging people(Fe, Te).

This is about survival, you change and adapt to survive, or you will die like a pathetic dog. No one care about you, waiting you, give you a chance, you need to be changed, or you will be abandoned, bitches.

This is no longer suitable period for Einstein or Stallman, or other famous INTPs or other Perceiving types(Ne, Se). It's for who dare to dream and completely make your dream become true. You are still alive because there are still holes to exploit. But sooner or later it will be patched. No witty tricky for you bitches. Wake up and be a brave human-being, and being what you supposed to be.

I feel like I was enlightened after the depression. The Tao just lead me to the Way.

 

[ActiveMind]

I see a huge disparity in terms of unskilled laborers vs. automation in the near future where people in general will become obsolete. Even skilled professions could be programmed algorithms depending on the field. I believe this point in time is where the INTP will be needed most - How will people pay for necessities when they are no longer needed in the workplace?

 

[Anktark]

How will people pay for necessities when they are no longer needed in the workplace?

Why would people pay for anything, if most of the things are done by robots?

 

[ActiveMind]

Why would people pay for anything, if most of the things are done by robots?

Tell that to the people who want money for the goods their robots produce. Or robots produce abundance to a degree where money for necessities becomes obsolete. Hope for the latter, prepare for the former.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I suppose the billions being spent by civilian and military on this is just stupid money then? I'd suggest to work in the field first and then form an opinion. Additionally I'll note that to work in technology you have to be a futurist, because otherwise project planning would be impossible.

Correct me if I am wrong, but currently the best and most advance computers are probably simulators that crunch numbers. Like military computers that crunch big numbers to see who will win the battle or something like that. But these computers are still being fed information from outside and are pretty much just large computing machines.

I am still waiting for a computer to give me a diagnosis when I am sick or psychoanalyze me when I have mental problems. What I am trying to say that there is a great gap between these simulators and a computer that can at least hold a decent conversation with other human being.

 

[Architect]

Correct me if I am wrong, but currently the best and most advance computers are probably simulators that crunch numbers. Like military computers that crunch big numbers to see who will win the battle or something like that. But these computers are still being fed information from outside and are pretty much just large computing machines.

What do you think you are? I'll answer; a hierarchical Hidden Markov Model. A regular HMM in how you recognize speech, which is the same technique we use in speech recognition. Vision is a probabilistic graphical model. Consciousness we're not quite sure yet, but it appears to be a HHMM. We'll know for sure in another decade or two.

I am still waiting for a computer to give me a diagnosis when I am sick or psychoanalyze me when I have mental problems.

There are medical diagnosis that are only allowed to be performed by computer. Humans are too error prone with these particular ones, computers are much more accurate in interpreting the measurements.

As for the rest of it, give us a bit more time.

 

[Rualani]

What do you think you are? I'll answer; a hierarchical Hidden Markov Model. A regular HMM in how you recognize speech, which is the same technique we use in speech recognition. Vision is a probabilistic graphical model. Consciousness we're not quite sure yet, but it appears to be a HHMM. We'll know for sure in another decade or two.



There are medical diagnosis that are only allowed to be performed by computer. Humans are too error prone with these particular ones, computers are much more accurate in interpreting the measurements.

As for the rest of it, give us a bit more time.

It sounds like exciting stuff, really. Any links for this sort of stuff, or is it necessary to get into the field to get a grasp of it?

 

[Architect]

It sounds like exciting stuff, really. Any links for this sort of stuff, or is it necessary to get into the field to get a grasp of it?

Read How to Create a Mind by Ray Kurzweil.

 

[Haim]

Not at all.
INTP obsolete at the age of information?
Looking from another perspective to an existing problem and finding a new solution.(p)
Finding problems,inefficiency and questions.
The ability to comprehend a complex program and to think why something is not working correctly and what will not working correctly(P&N)
thinking!creativity!
Work become more and more automated(partly because of intps :P) then what that is left is the jobs that demand you to make something new and the jobs related to making and improving the computers.
Even when computer will have good creativity(won't happen in the near decades) we will still want human creations,the number of creativity jobs are only going higher.

Its not about knowledge it's about thinking,finding new connections and with them make new ideas to the world.
Also someone need to learn that knowledge,constantly!.

 

[ENTP lurker]

Well... I sometimes find it hard to understand that there is need for normal people. It is hard to define what are the needs.We have arrived to a point where we might start look for scaling down humanity for sake of efficiency and environmental issues although it seems take care of itself without direct human control. This is just one scenario and probably temporary but... yeah.

 

[WALKYRIA]

Simple "common" knowledge have never really appealed to me...
Dark and hidden knowledges/secrets had always been my main priority.
Leveraging knowledge points.

There's just nothing better than knowing something no one or just a few knows.
So in place of wanting to know something easily available on the internet. Exclusivity of the knowledge is- for me atleast- far more superior than whatever the amount of knowledge you might have ... That's why mainly I despise college and the workplace. Everybody knows the same shit and it gets boring very fast .

I think that beyond knowledge, INTP should( and they already do I guess) chase the most valuable and most leveraging knowledge to have...

If I were a young INTP with good self knowldegge, I would early-very early focus my attention on new technologies, IA and ways to make money fast and independantly... I would like my parents to not put me trhew public school AT ALL( but still meeting people threw other venus). After reflection, I realize that for INTPs public school has brought nothing... Or maybe I did the wrong choices but IT brought litterraly nothing but pain in the ass.... and PTSD. YEah, post traumatic stress syndrome from all this emotion bottling and socially induce micro-traumas. SHit.

Everything I learned, I almost completely did it outside the social arena and mainly by myself. sad. What's sadder is the thought that I could have been lightyears ahead of where I am right now had the setttings've been different... If most INTPs are like me, I seriously think INTPs life threw society is a pain in the ass and actually sad in a way.

Architect, I really hope/ and know you will nurture you'r INTP son the best way possible. Because parenting an INTP kid is key. I 'll even go as far as to say... let him travel, find himself, do research, meet people and teach him how to strive without the society if he wants to AND also within the society if he wants to; tell him an inspiring story everynight, let him discover things everyday, teach him, make him question the world around him...

 

[Late2theParty]

INTP's have always had it rough. It must have been much worse in tribal times, where pure physicality / ability to hunt and gather were most favored.

Ironic though that in this age we are in one of the best times for an INTP to shine that ultimately we would be doomed again, and most likely other INTPs had a hand in making it so.

That being said...how obsolete would we be compared to the other types? Who do you think has it the worst?