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INTPs and creativity.

QuickTwist

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#1
A thought occurred to me that I want to try out. The thought was INTPs are just too logical to be creative. I really have no idea if this is true or not. The premise for this idea is that INTPs are by nature the most logical of all the 16 types. Ti-Ne-Si is a very logical set of CFs. I am wondering if INTPs are fueled by this desire to be both objective and logical above being emotionally expressive. From what I see of the true INTPs they do not get bored by analysing things to death. Their tertiary function Si helps them keep things in order while giving mild support to keep up with doing boring things. The Ti-Ne is the real powerhouse behind their highly organized thoughts though. The Ti I think could easily be called the logical CF while the Ne gives a constant streaming of alternative possibilities. When this cycles it seems like they have the right things going for them to narrow the information down to very simple terms. No, I think the thing that is preventing them from being as spontaneous (as an artist almost needs to be) is the fact that their feeling CF is so far down the list and it takes so long to fully develop to be used in a positive and effective manner.

It would make my day to hear from Auburn, Jenny, and Architect as well as the mods, but I wouldn't want any of them to feel obligated to contribute.
 

Xopata

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#2
Interesting, although it depends how you define creativity. At what point does something become creativity? When it is shoved out into the world, or when it is born in the creators mind? Because, depending on that definition INTP's could be one of the most or least creative types. Most due to the complex internal systems we create, least because we are often rubbish/unconcerned with applying those systems to reality.
 
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#3
I've always thought intuition and creativity linked and intertwined in some way.
 

Hadoblado

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@QT

Interesting, although it depends how you define creativity. At what point does something become creativity? When it is shoved out into the world, or when it is born in the creators mind? Because, depending on that definition INTP's could be one of the most or least creative types. Most due to the complex internal systems we create, least because we are often rubbish/unconcerned with applying those systems to reality.
See what I mean by defining terms in your OP?

I excel at a particular type of creativity: novel approaches to set goals. Comparatively I find other people to either draw upon experience rather than understanding, or to forget practicality entirely. For me the solution converges from both a logical comprehension of what won't work, and a deep desire to improve on previous models.

I've never had great artistic understanding, most art I reject as wank.
 

Architect

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#5
Yes, in a sense I believe you're right. I think that creativity in the sense of plastic creativity - such as writing a novel with fantastic ideas, or a new painting or sculpture, or a musical piece with a great tune isn't something INTP's are really built for. This seems to be true of IN's in general, certainly for INTJ's and INFJ's also. That kind of creativity seems to be more the domain of the S type. The N's seem to have creativity more tied to idea or concept. Intent, not form maybe.

This is why creativity being tied to Intuition is wrong in my opinion. S is more of the plastic creativity of form, whereas N is the creativity of symbol, idea, concept, solution or theory. I just reposted something here which is relevant.
 

own8ge

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#6
My INTP uncle writes books in rhyme. He can also draw/sketch people really characteristic. He is creative. No doubt. (And no doubt he is an INTP.)
 
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#7
I'm very creative. I'm constantly coming up with ideas for storylines, characters, art, etc. I have a lot of creative ideas, but I don't really have any artistic skill myself. However, I communicate very well with Artisans who take my ideas, flesh them out, and make them real. I've worked with a number of writers and comic artists.
 

scenefinale

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#8
Yes, in a sense I believe you're right. I think that creativity in the sense of plastic creativity - such as writing a novel with fantastic ideas, or a new painting or sculpture, or a musical piece with a great tune isn't something INTP's are really built for. This seems to be true of IN's in general, certainly for INTJ's and INFJ's also. That kind of creativity seems to be more the domain of the S type. The N's seem to have creativity more tied to idea or concept. Intent, not form maybe.

This is why creativity being tied to Intuition is wrong in my opinion.
I must respectfully disagree. INTJ's and INFJ's are some of the most prolific composers. And as far as sculpting goes, I've studied Michelangelo enough to firmly believe he was an INTJ, his method is the very epitome of Ni (as I intend to discuss in a video). Ni way more often than not accompanies the musically gifted.

Ne is creative in concept, Ni is creative in implementation. Ni/Se will typically prefer working with the hands, Ne/Si prefers to keep it abstract.
 

Architect

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#9
I must respectfully disagree. INTJ's and INFJ's are some of the most prolific composers.
Name them. I was a professional classical musician and composer so don't hold back.

And as far as sculpting goes, I've studied Michelangelo enough to firmly believe he was an INTJ, his method is the very epitome of Ni (as I intend to discuss in a video). Ni way more often than not accompanies the musically gifted.
He was more of an inventor than an artist according to my INFJ wife who is an artist. She also is the one who originated this idea.

Ne is creative in concept, Ni is creative in implementation. Ni/Se will typically prefer working with the hands, Ne/Si prefers to keep it abstract.
This sounds like theory, I've known no INFJs or INTJs like this. INFJs love art but aren't implementors, and I've not met an INTJ with an interest in typically creative fields.
 

QuickTwist

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#10

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#11
Something something basically yeah, something computer science/programming is the best outlet for intps to express "creativity", something something
 

scenefinale

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#12
Sorry if I've upset you. It's seems clear from this imperative language you have already turned confrontational/defensive. If that is indeed the case, I would like to assure you there is no need. I'd like to debate, not take orders. I hate to break it to you but your post count actually does not give you any power over me. I addressed you respectfully, like a gentleman, but if you've no intention of proceeding about this as intellectuals just let me know and I won't bother making any further replies. If we are both INTPs I don't see any reason we should not make great friends, which is what I strive for, especially on the rare account I encounter another INTP who actually knows about the cognitive functions/psychology. We are limited, and I think we should be working together (although independently), not against.

I'm referring to the plentiful amount of musicians I know personally; musicians who give classical performances at Harvard, have albums available on amazon, and even have played "The Warped Tour". But that's not the point.
I trust you know why GPUs exist. It's not because CPUs can't process graphics (in theory they can process pretty much anything), it's that CPUs are not optimized for it. This is somewhat of an overkill analogy but what I am saying is NOT that Ne/Si can't be musicians, it's that it comes more naturally to Ni/Se.

Just as an example, have you read Nardi's Neuroscience of Personality? His EEG's show the highest activity in the temporal (where auditory processing takes place) lobes, regions T3 and T4 for INTJ, INFJ, and even ENTJ.
The INTP activity, on the other hand, shows literally almost no activity in T3 and T4. And, consistently, the ISTP shows higher T3 and T4 activity than the INTP too.

I was a professional classical musician and composer
Do you have any major performances on youtube? That's sincerly not a trolling comment, I would genuinely like to hear an INTP musician. I'm not trying to imply you aren't good, but for the sake of debate, being a professional and being good are not necessarily the same thing.

He was more of an inventor than an artist
Michelangelo, who sculpted David and The Pieta? Not to mention his painting the Sistine Chapel! He literally was sculpting up until the days he died.
Not that I consider wikipedia an authority necessarily but you can read the first sentence on Michelangelo.
"...was an Italian sculptor..."

according to my INFJ wife who is an artist. She also is the one who originated this idea.
May I ask what kind of artist? Would you not say that she "composes" her art? Would you not say that she "creates" her art? And she originated what idea, that sensing types are more "creative"? I'm not clear on what you meant by that.

I think we should put a definition on creativity, which is what I originally set out to do. Why argue a price if we're not dealing in the same currency?

Creativity, to me, in the very broad sense, is taking pieces from all different places and connecting them in a new, meaningful way. Sounds a lot like intuition, I know. :)

This sounds like theory, I've known no INFJs or INTJs like this. INFJs love art but aren't implementors, and I've not met an INTJ with an interest in typically creative fields.
Hm, perhaps an example will illustrate what I mean. What I'm referring to is that INTJs tend to be terrible at coming up with ideas. They are excellent at coding once someone hands them an idea, they can really turn an idea into a solid conceptualization, but this is almost always after someone hands them an idea first.

Are they creative in that they came up with the idea? No.
Are they creative in really solidifying a concept, seeing it through to implementation? Yes. They "created" the application.

As you can see, these are two very different types of "creativity".

Also, the Human Dimensions Model I've mentioned before on this site refers to the INFJ as the "Composer" I don't think I'm alone in believing this word applies. I think the root of our disagreement is over the lack of careful definition on these words.

I prefer to incorporate perspectives rather than shoot them down. So I'm interested in what you have to say. But I will insist we proceed as intellectuals who are willing to entertain eachother's good ideas, please.
 

QuickTwist

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#13
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Let us say that creativity is the driving force of creating something new and original.

Just from my general grasps and hunches, I'd say sensors are more confortable with what is, rather than what could be.

A sensor making music? In my opinion and taste, not so much original. A sensor will most likely create another country love song using those same three chords, and the same overused strumming patterns.

Actually, that's not completely true, and was insulting. Sorry

I really can't see an intuitive, with a love of making music, resort to something that has already been done. The way I have thus far perceived intuitives, that person would strive to create something no-one has ever heard. Something truly new. Something very innovative and creative.
 
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#15
Another thing that brought me to my conclusion of intuition and creativity being linked.

The process of intuition is an awesome function of the brain. It's the ability to just "know" something without having any conscious reason why, and the calculation of it happening in just an instant. It's from going to point A to point Z without any reasoning in between.

As an artist, this function is crucial to determining the next note of a song, or the placement of the chisel in where to sculpt. The exact vector and firmness of a paint stroke. And all the while, being able to have a big picture, the product as a whole, as you make each modification.
 

scenefinale

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#16
Creativity definition. Just so we are dealing with the same currencies.
Why limit ourselves to that definition and not this one http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creativity which references this http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creative one?

1. the state or quality of being creative.
2. the ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods, interpretations, etc.; originality, progressiveness, or imagination
 

scenefinale

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#17
Just from my general grasps and hunches, I'd say sensors are more confortable with what is, rather than what could be.
I like your point. Not an end all point, but relevant.
 
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QuickTwist

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scenefinale

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#20
While I see that your definition is eloquent, there is a reason why I chose the Oxford dictionary. Care to guess why?
Not particularly.
 

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#21
Maybe that's why you were so quick to view things from your own point instead of a standard that everyone can go by regarding the definition of creativity.
 

scenefinale

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#22
Maybe that's why you were so quick to view things from your own point instead of a standard that everyone can go by regarding the definition of creativity.
If by quick you mean steadily observed and pondered for more than a decade then sure. My point of view encompasses a myriad of definitions of creativity. I said "not particularly" to make the point that I value my time and I don't care to play guessing games. If you have a point to make, by all means make it and if it's a good one then I will assign it weight accordingly and incorporate it into my perspective; I might even say "thanks".

But when someone says "care to guess why" in such a context, I interpret that as an attempt to condescendingly try and teach me something "enticing" yet unsolicited which, in all likely-hood, I've probably already considered.

I've already stated before, I encourage people to intelligently disagree with me.

Consider this the last off topic post of yours which I acknowledge.
 
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#23
@QT



See what I mean by defining terms in your OP?

I excel at a particular type of creativity: novel approaches to set goals. Comparatively I find other people to either draw upon experience rather than understanding, or to forget practicality entirely. For me the solution converges from both a logical comprehension of what won't work, and a deep desire to improve on previous models.

I've never had great artistic understanding, most art I reject as wank.
:D:D:D
 
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#24
If i'm the one who judges my own ideas how do i know if am in fact a really creative person? Is our quality inner filter what we call creativity?, which are its components?. There's in fact a feeling in the air but what's that?, is it the you shall pass now for the ticket machine?.
When i compose a song, I often say to myself, this sucks, but that piece, for someone else and more than once, have been considered as really good an unique. What i think i'm trying to say is that creativity can be garbage if not implemented in line with your personal goals and if this doesn't happen you will think that you lack inspiration when you might not.

Basically something original is what SJs take as wtf is that?.
Are aliens original?, or are they just non average? they mean nothing to themselves. My compositions are shit by themselves, audience makes them something else. So it is hard to speak of creativity you know. Is it creative to mix a bunch of african folk instruments in a ultimate mash up?, is it creativity to mash up oasis, green day and eminem? what's creativity?, there are too much options to labell as creative, it basically could be whatever.

Right now i'm kinda angry with myself for not being able to bring some great concept to mind and develop some primal ideas that are banishing in the ether.
 

scenefinale

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#25
I like to think of the mind in terms of networks, so what I've been pondering for the last few years or so is different ways creativity would be represented. E.g. (and obviously these are gross oversimplifications) Is it just access to more nodes, such as a higher time-to-live? Would that necessarily result from some simpler properties, such as the ability to form longer stable connections? Or maybe a higher number of concurrent cortico-thalamic loops? etc. I have tens of thousands of these questions, each of which opens the door to even more questions. I still have much more research to do but that is one of the directions I would like to take it.
 

scenefinale

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#26
I've studied Michelangelo enough to firmly believe he was an INTJ
In all fairness, I take into account Architect's perspective as I dig deeper into the subject I could also make a great argument for ISTP too, his taking apart corpses does, to me, suggest Ti. I think it is safe to say he was an introvert, and that he was Ni/Se, his father would beat him for wanting to work with his hands, because to work with hands was considered "beneath" the upper class but he pursued regardless. I still very much hold the same principles for creativity, perhaps just acknowledge further the different kinds of creativity, as it is so ambiguously defined and interpreted. I have some interesting interpretations of his work I would like to share but I'll leave that and my analysis of him perhaps for a different thread.
 

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#27
@scene, Its really all conjecture isn't it? You act like you want to play ball, but all you want to do is look pretty and pretend you are playing ball.
 
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#29
@scene, Its really all conjecture isn't it? You act like you want to play ball, but all you want to do is look pretty and pretend you are playing ball.
If you really wanted to change my mind you would go about it in a different way instead of forcing the issue and getting me to be defensive in defending myself. With such force there is little reason to not see opposition. It is a natural tendency when force is applied to want to push back. This is a common principle. You must understand your accusations are not received simply because you lack the ability to conduct yourselves with a subtle suggestion but rather you chose dogmatic ruthlessness.
'
 

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#30

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#32
I don't think INTPs lack creativity. My crazy Ne gives constantly gives me new and new ideas, and I get easly bored, because Ne is stronger than Si (a lot!). Some time ago I doubt of being INFP, because Ne is somehow similar to Fx, sometimes I decide without logic, only intuitive (like emotions). But yeah, most of a time I like planning, thinking, analyzing and can't be spontaneous.
 

QuickTwist

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#33
To show your hypocrisy and make you not post so much.
Well there are some nuances that I could talk about but for the sake of the forum, the sake of my thread getting too far off topic and preventing myself from getting in trouble with the mods I will not. Believe it or not Bronto I am actually very reasonable.

If you would like to discuss your issues with me please PM me and we will talk about it.
 

Kita

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#34
As a creative person myself, I personally do find the 'art' in heavy handed messages, but also in subtle messages and hidden languages. Think about talking to just a few people through your work. You have to go in knowing most people won't 'get' it. Good art is when you can make something that the general public finds more or less somehow aesthetically pleasing. Great art is when you can also work in an actual message, and talk to those partaking in your piece.

For example, Ansel Adams has pretty pictures of nature most people find pleasing. They are nice to look at, nothing more. Most people will have one on their wall. Normal Rockwell, however, who was also making picturesque images at the same time, was a great artist. He captured sublime moments that not only had a base of being 'well painted' and 'nice to look at', but also had a story in them, and spoke to those who lived the very type of scenes he portrayed. He tapped into emotions beyond the general 'isn't nature nice?', and went for the deeper 'Remember when you were young...'

Certainly, Normal Rockwell in context, did not have art that was difficult to understand or was overly deep. But I like to use these examples because they are pretty familiar and easy to understand due to the obviousness. The images by Adams and Rockwell are both iconic and very clear, more than can be said for lots of modern art. Modern art can be impossible to navigate, even for those who study it, due to artists getting so overly absorbed in various elements, the what they are trying to say gets buried under the the heavy handedness. There is a desire to be novel, and to say something new. But artists find true liberation when they realize everything is derivative. There is no true 'originality', as much as there are merely people who haven't had that experience before. They will always find your work novel and original, which is the most an artist can hope for.

So, when finding your own inner muse, you need to think about your own perspective and how you see things. Don't aim for an audience or to be original, just know that there is only one YOU, and YOUR way of looking at something and interpreting it is, in fact, new, novel, original, and unique. By sheer mathematical probability, there is at least one other person on this planet that has experienced enough similar things to you, but is not you and therefore has not experienced it exactly like you, will find novelty and the personal message in your piece.

Getting started can be the hardest part when you don't know your media. Photography is an art form, and can be carefully planned and crafted. I like oil paints, because I can take my time to plan a piece, and it takes to long to dry, I can rework mistakes and parts I don't like over and over again. I also like sculpture due to the openness of materials, it feels like I can always find the RIGHT medium to make it look how I envisioned. Practice, lots of research, and a vision make you a good sculptor. No talent needed as long as you can handle power tools. With the available technology today, there are many shortcuts and ways to sculpt that don't require tons of education and expertise. Oh, please note, sculpture is not ceramics. Nor is sculpture limited to chipping at limestone or casting bronze. Sculpture basically means a 3D art piece. That's it. Very open ended.

Go wild! Build that thing in your head that you want to invent. It might not be functioning as intended, but it really is creative to just live out such fantasies. Build a model of your favorite prop. I really like sci-fi stuff, and build imaginary technology. You can use your knowledge of how certain things work in order to inform you enough to make it believable, then dream up the blanks using your knowledge of 'what could be'. This also works for photography, setting up scenes with the air of mystery that draw people in to try to find the story. If you can draw even a little, that is all you need to paint and draw.

I personally have trouble painting and drawing, because I have an idealized aesthetic of what I personally think is the 'right' and 'perfect' way for things to look, and where my actual abilities lie. I cannot meet my own expectations here. So I had to let go, and stop trying to do things in the idealized manner (Pop surrealism, for those curious. Google it, it's awesome. Perfectly clean images that have the surrealist realism and aesthetic, but a modern take on subject matter and style that makes the wild surrealism seem even more twisted and dark) I was only able to paint and draw again when I kept it within my abilities instead of fussing endlessly over a canvas that was far from the perfection I imagined. I have a closet full of such paintings, most never finished. There are phases I went through as an artist, and most of it involved me letting go of what I thought I knew as well as letting go of expectations for myself. As INTP, you can imagine how difficult it is. Needless to say, my own creative spark has trouble getting started. I am daunted by the dozens of looming projects floating in my brain at any time that are nagging me to create them. I am pretty sure I am going to screw them up. I most likely will, nothing turns out how I envision it or plan, despite how much I carefully plan and think about things. It is very liberating when I do finish something, however.

The hardest part is starting. The next hardest part, equally difficult due to our wonderful personalities, is finishing. The best advice I can give that I wish I would practice myself is to just fucking do it. And do it for yourself and the process of making art, not with the intention of it being anything else. The rest will follow and come naturally if you stick with it. Try it all, make all your ideas come to life to give them the much needed freedom from your brain. You brain will thank you for the bit of release it gives.
 

QuickTwist

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#35
As a creative person myself, I personally do find the 'art' in heavy handed messages, but also in subtle messages and hidden languages. Think about talking to just a few people through your work. You have to go in knowing most people won't 'get' it. Good art is when you can make something that the general public finds more or less somehow aesthetically pleasing. Great art is when you can also work in an actual message, and talk to those partaking in your piece.

For example, Ansel Adams has pretty pictures of nature most people find pleasing. They are nice to look at, nothing more. Most people will have one on their wall. Normal Rockwell, however, who was also making picturesque images at the same time, was a great artist. He captured sublime moments that not only had a base of being 'well painted' and 'nice to look at', but also had a story in them, and spoke to those who lived the very type of scenes he portrayed. He tapped into emotions beyond the general 'isn't nature nice?', and went for the deeper 'Remember when you were young...'

Certainly, Normal Rockwell in context, did not have art that was difficult to understand or was overly deep. But I like to use these examples because they are pretty familiar and easy to understand due to the obviousness. The images by Adams and Rockwell are both iconic and very clear, more than can be said for lots of modern art. Modern art can be impossible to navigate, even for those who study it, due to artists getting so overly absorbed in various elements, the what they are trying to say gets buried under the the heavy handedness. There is a desire to be novel, and to say something new. But artists find true liberation when they realize everything is derivative. There is no true 'originality', as much as there are merely people who haven't had that experience before. They will always find your work novel and original, which is the most an artist can hope for.

So, when finding your own inner muse, you need to think about your own perspective and how you see things. Don't aim for an audience or to be original, just know that there is only one YOU, and YOUR way of looking at something and interpreting it is, in fact, new, novel, original, and unique. By sheer mathematical probability, there is at least one other person on this planet that has experienced enough similar things to you, but is not you and therefore has not experienced it exactly like you, will find novelty and the personal message in your piece.

Getting started can be the hardest part when you don't know your media. Photography is an art form, and can be carefully planned and crafted. I like oil paints, because I can take my time to plan a piece, and it takes to long to dry, I can rework mistakes and parts I don't like over and over again. I also like sculpture due to the openness of materials, it feels like I can always find the RIGHT medium to make it look how I envisioned. Practice, lots of research, and a vision make you a good sculptor. No talent needed as long as you can handle power tools. With the available technology today, there are many shortcuts and ways to sculpt that don't require tons of education and expertise. Oh, please note, sculpture is not ceramics. Nor is sculpture limited to chipping at limestone or casting bronze. Sculpture basically means a 3D art piece. That's it. Very open ended.

Go wild! Build that thing in your head that you want to invent. It might not be functioning as intended, but it really is creative to just live out such fantasies. Build a model of your favorite prop. I really like sci-fi stuff, and build imaginary technology. You can use your knowledge of how certain things work in order to inform you enough to make it believable, then dream up the blanks using your knowledge of 'what could be'. This also works for photography, setting up scenes with the air of mystery that draw people in to try to find the story. If you can draw even a little, that is all you need to paint and draw.

I personally have trouble painting and drawing, because I have an idealized aesthetic of what I personally think is the 'right' and 'perfect' way for things to look, and where my actual abilities lie. I cannot meet my own expectations here. So I had to let go, and stop trying to do things in the idealized manner (Pop surrealism, for those curious. Google it, it's awesome. Perfectly clean images that have the surrealist realism and aesthetic, but a modern take on subject matter and style that makes the wild surrealism seem even more twisted and dark) I was only able to paint and draw again when I kept it within my abilities instead of fussing endlessly over a canvas that was far from the perfection I imagined. I have a closet full of such paintings, most never finished. There are phases I went through as an artist, and most of it involved me letting go of what I thought I knew as well as letting go of expectations for myself. As INTP, you can imagine how difficult it is. Needless to say, my own creative spark has trouble getting started. I am daunted by the dozens of looming projects floating in my brain at any time that are nagging me to create them. I am pretty sure I am going to screw them up. I most likely will, nothing turns out how I envision it or plan, despite how much I carefully plan and think about things. It is very liberating when I do finish something, however.

The hardest part is starting. The next hardest part, equally difficult due to our wonderful personalities, is finishing. The best advice I can give that I wish I would practice myself is to just fucking do it. And do it for yourself and the process of making art, not with the intention of it being anything else. The rest will follow and come naturally if you stick with it. Try it all, make all your ideas come to life to give them the much needed freedom from your brain. You brain will thank you for the bit of release it gives.
Just one thing to add. A good artist can recreate his piece an infinite amount of times given they have the time to. That is all.
 

JansenDowel

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#36
Totally disagree. Try listening to other peoples ideas; you might find they are quite often not as imaginative as yours.
 

azumiii

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#37
What I love about art is that it doesnt give a fck if i love her, hate her or bored with her. Creativity balances INTP's logical needs. Other than art, all things should have a reason wherein art can either have a meaning, meanings or not mean anything at all and its okay.

Bad dreams are made of me.
 

Frankie

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#38
IMO, INTPs are creative in thinking (Constantly analyzing stuff and thinking what others have not thought), not so much in bringing their thoughts to life (because of procrastination and laziness)
 

QuickTwist

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#39
Its not that INTPs can't. On the contrary, they could be very proficient at it. It just doesn't hold their interest.
 

nanook

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#40
I believe Ti is creative as fuck, about thoughts. It's difficult to stop and make attempts to perceive reality, because the Ti mind will invent a reality and often mistake it for the real thing. It's the king of hypothesis. "it must be this way, because if i was god, i would have created it this way."

It's not creative about anything else. The INTP as a whole has another source of creativity, Si. other than that he can synthesize stuff, reassemble stuff, compile stuff. take my tumblr. whether i am intp or not, i believe i share the same structure (JiPe) so i think the example counts. it's an example of compiling things for the sake of Si and some Ne. i try to make it so that each image spins of a theme from the previous images. sometimes is a symbolical (Ne) spin off, sometimes it's an aesthetic (Si) spin-off. sometimes there is a break. it's uncreative, nevertheless it's a creation of sorts.

:kodama1:
 

DrSketchpad

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#41
I don't think INTPs have traditional creativity. I think it's more of a logical creativity if that makes sense. As opposed to something purely Ne born it usually is thought of from reason. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and the rest of it's series, I think, is the best example I can give.
 

QuickTwist

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#42
I don't think INTPs have traditional creativity. I think it's more of a logical creativity if that makes sense. As opposed to something purely Ne born it usually is thought of from reason. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and the rest of it's series, I think, is the best example I can give.
This ^
 

azumiii

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#43
I'm leaning on logical creativity based on experience. As a grade school student, it was easy for me to start and finish my art project. I was totally motivated knowing the fact that only 2 or 3 of us in the class can deliver a good art project (usually drawing and sketching) so this means I got a good chance of getting the highest grade. I sucked in math so I take every art project seriously and enthusiastically. While most of my classmates would frown at an art project, it felt both weird but gratifying that I am excited by it. Came high school, I was already established as the student who can draw well and does well in art projects so this grade-conscious classmates were smart enough to pay me to do their project instead of them trying hard. They're all for the highest grades they can get. It's that competitive. This time, being rewarded of a tangible thing (read: cash) excited me. I can make 3 to 4 projects for my classmates overnight.

Fast forward to adult life in a corporate setting where creative art plays a little role in my job, my relationship with traditional art dwindled. That time, creativity was much needed in writing scripts and advertising copies. There were times when I could not put into words what I am thinking and this delayed some projects but I was surrounded by performance artists and TV production people so it was easy for them to imagine.

Every now and then, I try to rekindle my sweet memories with creativity and many times have I attempted to sketch, draw, write a script, just write anything, a fiction but I could not finish them and they looked ugly, not as good as when I was young. Now I realize, thanks to you @DrSketchpad, the reason why I cannot be like before. I find no value doing it at this point in time. I always wanted to create again and maybe learn to paint but what for? Logical creativity screwed me

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
 

Alias

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#44
Creative in ideas, yes. That goes with most Intuitives. Creative in art, not necessarily. An INTP is creative in a similar way to the other INs and Ns, being idea-based and thought provoking. But an INTP isn't really known for artistic tendency in the way that an ISFP might be.

I've been told countless times I'm really creative, and I am. Not the best artist, but original thought and things resulting from that often come easy to me.

It also depends mostly on the INTP. If you're one of those super-logic (primarily Thinker) INTPs, chances are you won't likely be very artistic in terms of media like paint, but if you're more of an expressive, primarily Intuitive INTPs (like me), you'll probably be seen as creative in some manner.
 
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#45
John Cleese did a good talk on creativity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMpdPrm6Ul4

My main takeaway was that you need to plan personal space and time to be creative. I think the INTP is naturally buzzing with thoughts and tries to logically fit them together. Our NP fuels the desire to be creative and the T is the brake to the wildness of the ideas and any J brakes finding time to be creative. For practical ideas you need those brakes, but it can overwhelm the creativity.

I design mobile apps and I'm not naturally drawn to think about new ideas for other apps, just the one I'm working on - disciplined so not to be overwhelmed. For the app itself I work with a (likely) ENFP who seems to be more often in the creative space. For me, if I need to think creatively I find it easiest in the evening over a beer than early in the morning when I like to get through task lists (so I have some J to my P).

I'm also unfortunately drawn to play devils advocate on a lot of ENFP ideas. This is can be an unhealthy trait and another brake on creativity.

Finally I think mindfulness can be a great tool for the INTP's busy mind. I have noticed a little bit of meditation can lay the way for a good spell of creative thinking later in the day.
 

ENTP lurker

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#46
You need to define creativity. If there is huge abundance of certain kind of creativity do we see it as creativity?
Can you see effective logistics ISTJ person as creative?
 

Yellow

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#47
I remember when I was taking cognitive psychology, spent a pretty hefty segment on creativity, and what stuck with me is how culture affects how one values and defines creativity.

There were clear differences between collectivist and individualist cultures and what creativity means to them. In collectivist cultures, the usefulness of a solution and how it is applied to solve a real problem in a novel way are probably the greatest factors in what is seen as "creative". In individualist cultures, something can be entirely "useless" and be considered a masterpiece of creativity.

An example I used before was in architecture. http://www.jebiga.com/hong-kong-micro-apartment-gary-chang/ This is an example of NT creativity (at its finest in my opinion). Compare that to the classic, creative architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright. His work is/was beautiful, unique, and really interesting, but the artistic flair that brought his fame and renown was entirely unnecessary.

So from these reflections, I'd argue (backwards) there's a spectrum of creativity, and our definitions lie upon it. I'd put art at one end and invention at the other. From there, it goes down to personal and cultural preference.

I suspect that INTPs and other NTs have a preference for the "invention" side of creativity. I think we excel here and have more appreciation for the work of others on this end. I guess NFs would actually occupy the other end, with others inbetween. Though, perhaps one constant of creativity is novelty, which is something N-types might practice with more ease than S-types, but maybe that's where practicality comes into play.
 
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#48
I really don't agree with the idea that art comes from an entirely emotional place rather than a logical one. As someone who has studied film theory pretty intensely, I can absolutely say that there is a whole ton of the sort of logical problems that INTPs thrive on.
 
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