I'll just jump in quickly because I know people have been reading past each other a lot.
You've misread number four. I'm saying you missed my *lack* of aggression. I'm saying that you claimed there was *no* difference, when I was pretty obviously less aggressive. You later denied having ever thought there was no difference.
Ppppft, look at this shit! Do you even believe your own arguments, Hado? You sound like you’ve had the wind taken out of your sails. Admit it: you rolled Mafia, you changed up your play style and it fell flat on its face. I will give you some credit, though: you at least stuck with me as your primary target… although if this is all you have on me, christ.
I'll just jump in quickly because I know people have been reading past each other a lot.
You've misread number four. I'm saying you missed my *lack* of aggression. I'm saying that you claimed there was *no* difference, when I was pretty obviously less aggressive. You later denied having ever thought there was no difference.
Dude, I didn’t even perceive you as aggressive during the last game. Irritating and spammy, yes. Aggressive? Admittedly, I do have a high tolerance to such things. Here in RL, people have said a few times “Are you going to let him/her speak to you like that?” to which my response is a genuinely nonplussed “Like what?” You have to go really out of your way to register as aggressive on my scale. To me, you’re just more ‘flat’ this game. Like you’ve already given up.
Heh, I can actually see this alone as being a case for your mafia-ness. You’re highly motivated as town. Maybe you don’t like playing mafia. New and uncomfortable territory? Issues with feeling like a traitor? Speculation, of course.
1) - Here is QT making the point originally (I'm not taking credit). PMJ makes a strong green read on Sinny from two posts. I don't know which posts he's referring to, but I don't see anything that makes her clearly green. Also, she's pretty obviously scripting. She asked around a lot after last game to see what behaviours she should change in order to look more town. She went back to the obvious behaviour that got her correctly confirmed town in game one. I do see Sinny as a little green, but I wouldn't feel comfortable committing to the notion yet. Why is he so certain now that she's green, when before he was calling her out? Why is her bullinachinashop schtick suddenly convincing him strongly that she's green? This is inconsistent on two levels:
a) He was so unconfident he couldn't even FoS her before, now he's super confident
b) He was leaning one way on her and then suddenly swung the other.
If PMJ is scum, he's not wanting to tunnel someone he knows is town. On the other hand, as scum, reading someone that is green as green is a way to get cred.
This screams scum to me. Confident to read people green but not confident enough to FoS?
2) - But you have lied. You said that I was exactly the same as last game, and now you're saying that you did notice a difference. Also the phrasing... He's apologising again by saying that "he can't lie". He knows he's lied, his only want in the world right now is to convince us he didn't lie, so he articulates in such a way that draws from that motive. It's loose freudian type logic, but if that doesn't convince you, there's still the fact that he changed his mind and lied about it.
(3) - He's saying he's reining himself in, just like I'm doing. Except, he's gone pretty damn aggressive. He's been goading people etc. What he says he's doing is reining in aggression, but what is actually happening is he's not aggressive until he knows who he can be aggressive at. That might be because he wants more information so that he's actually being aggressive towards his read (because he's town), or it might be because he's scum who's waiting on more information so that he know's how hard and in which direction he needs to push. Either way, he's apologising for it, again. He's justifying his lack of aggression preemptively, and then acting in a way inconsistent with his words.
His posts are quoted, and I respond to the red with the dot points below. He had another post I could have dived, but I'm deliberately trying to keep it light (or lighter).
1) You’re regurgitating here. RE-emphasising. Wait a sec - didn’t you just call me out on that? Wow. This is some weak shit, Hado.
As for her asking around about play styles, I didn’t know anything about that. As already stated, I know Sinny better than anyone here - not well, but better - and she read green during those first few posts. You’re basically saying that because I have asserted my views on a person (the whole point of the game) I’m somehow iffy. I find this amusing. It is what it is: Sinny made some (to me) well in character posts, and the disparity between said posts and her last game, in which she was mafia, is as clear as day. I don’t see Sinny as the type to piss around: she’s straight down the line. Ergo, I read her as green. Initially ‘safe’ and then, with subsequent non-iffy posts (to me!) green.
Is this so hard to follow? Am I missing something here?
2) Fair point here - I wasn’t honest at first. I turned a blind eye to you (foolishly) because of what transpired during the last game. I did notice a subtle difference, and this became more pronounced as time went on. Effectively, I realised, you had lost your bite. As I mention above, you seem flat. Removed. The Hado I know would have dropped the script a long time ago and come out swinging - but you haven’t. You’ve continued to make flat posts, like you have already given up. Something is severely amiss here. Either you have RL stuff going on, or you’re a Mafia and can’t take the heat. You tried to play it smart, and you fucked it. Or so I think.
3) Yeah, exactly Hado - I dropped my initial ‘I’m going to reign myself in’, because my nature is this - pushing buttons, calling people out on bullshit. This is what I am. This is also who you are… so again, what gives?
You’re right in that I had to figure out where to apply pressure. Amusingly, you (again). I’m glad you made a case for me, because it has given me something to focus on and fight against. More of this, please.
My vote stays on you. You’ve fucked it, mate. Sorry. Your entire argument around me smacks of desperation. I just can’t see where you're going with it at all.
Others may agree with you, of course. I’ll be happy to tackle them, too.
(I'm not sure why, but it looks like my spoiler tags aren't working. Oh well).
Right, I'm off home now to do family stuff. I'll try to check back later, but I likely won't make it on until tomorrow morning. I humbly request patience. I will make cases tomorrow, when I can (perhaps) be less reactive and more proactive.
So the real life situation is affecting your participation in the game. This line of defense sucks because I know you just enough to suspect it may be true and you know me well enough to assume it's going to convince me. Your whole life censored...why do you even bring this up, are you trying to generate an empathetic response? It would work in real life but I can't accept it for this game. That bit about your whole life seems disingenuous, it's as if you stay in the game only barely to be a nice person, you knew what responsibilities were coming irl, why didn't you leave before the game started?
I said it affects my affect, not my participation. You're one to talk starting a game when you know you're moving. I'm participating fine. I put my explanation in spoilers to keep it out of the flow, as it wasn't very relevant and I didn't need it taking prominence. If we were allowed to edit, I would have removed it a few seconds after posting. Anyway, I was explaining my affect, and why it may seem to waver to my "normal" from time to time. Anyway, this is the last time I'm going to address it because it's a distraction from my mission.
Yes. I'm saying it's either one or the other and neither are good for town. I'd drop it, but she keeps doing it. She keeps spewing one-liners as if we're expected to just trust her. She needs to put in the work.
@Sinny - Don't just say "Yellow is scummy". Tell me why. GAWD I sound like a writing teacher now, don't I? Tear me a new one, if you must. Make a rock-solid case against me and start the bandwagon that will get me lynched, if you think that's what's best for town.
@back to Hado, I think that deliberately holding back substance is scummy, and if all this poking and prodding doesn't work, then I might switch my vote back to her.
I backed off before (or tried) because a couple people pointed out that this is just Sinny being Sinny. I think following that train of thought is almost insulting to her. I know that right or wrong, Sinny is capable of making a case. I don't think this is asking too much.
It does make sense in this case, redundant activity though. Everyone already assumes it can be false so little use pointing it out to them while you return to state 0 with Yellow because you didn't pretend to tolerate her read.
So the real life situation is affecting your participation in the game. This line of defense sucks because I know you just enough to suspect it may be true and you know me well enough to assume it's going to convince me. Your whole life censored...why do you even bring this up, are you trying to generate an empathetic response? It would work in real life but I can't accept it for this game. That bit about your whole life seems disingenuous, it's as if you stay in the game only barely to be a nice person, you knew what responsibilities were coming irl, why didn't you leave before the game started?
Or is it just the way you use placeholders? Without giving me real answers you've just used your life issues as an excuse, lazy or especially convenient I say.
Of course you can remain composed when you're putting on the pressure, that's not what I meant. So far you're letting things go way too easily, it's more participation-faking than trying to give your best from the limited time you have, or it could be that you're just so inexperienced that you don't move much and feeling busy lets you excuse this part.
Oh really? Didn't you just tell me you were too busy to fully engage and now you're commenting on Sinny? Talk about double standards here...
Much of what's playing out doesn't inform me very conclusively either way. I need to keep asking more questions about the whole to enrich my picture. I get that my low activity and focus may be strange but it seems that's how I roll so far and I want to improve it.
Are you posturing concern? You can use search thread-> advanced search and type your username in the right box if you want to see every instance of people mentioning you.
Asking people to question you again seems redundant, or evasive.
PMJ is a tough read for me, that's what I mean by standard, is that he's leaving me clueless so far and that's what I find unacceptable, combined with his low activity.
Sete managed to provide the only reasonable response that would work in that situation. My question had the caveat that would alert me if that reply was even slightly different. I'm actually reliant on his paranoia to be on a lookout, he appears fairly in the green to me.
What's with this crap? What I don't like about your position here is how you've turned into the camp leader who's beyond suspicion just because of the way you're authoritative about phrasing things.
You're not hammering me because that would offend me? That's the weakest bullshit I've heard from you so far. More than anything it means that you have nothing solid on me and you're posturing being serious about me.
I'm quite certain that you won't find situation where I'm overly sensitive, save for Urakro's case which I had already explained my reasoning for elsewhere.
Tell me, what do you have on me really? What you've said to me so far is some inconclusive bullshit that's only adding to your false authority and faking effort.
Just so you know, I'm cool about this. I'm adding more meat and hostility between us to invite you to do the same and show you I'm fine and ready. Don't hold back man and ask me for real or admit it's your stupid test. I'm acting predictably and I will adjust to expectation if that's going to help everyone with understanding my position.
Going to bed - don't panic if you have questions for me between now and the next 7 hours and you don't get a response. I'll be back here with at least 2 hours before end of day and will answer any queries as promptly as possible.
REMINDERIt's compulsory to vote before end of day. LYNCHES are done by plurality in this game, not majority. They're tallied at end of day and the player with the most votes is lynched.In the event of a tie, a no-lynch result occurs.
Holy crap, I was thinking 5 to lynch this whole time and was about to call out Blarraun for not saying anything about his L-1 vote. Okay. Wow.
Anyway, I'm still really wondering WTF is up with Blarraun. And Gopher for that matter. Hado also isn't fighting the way I would expect when facing a Day 1 lynch.
@Gopher, you just made a good case against QT and Hado being in cahoots and acting suspicious, and then you voted for Blar. I'll admit that I'd put Blar about #2 or #3 on my list, but all that about them, and you pick him? Is it possible that you're throwing your vote away on purpose so you won't get blamed when Hado's lynched?
Seriously, though. You've given us a ton of encouragement for the Hado bandwagon, but no vote. Lots of puttering about "what if he's not really mafia and I'm tunneling him for no reason? I'mma tunnel some more".
I'm beginning to wonder if you know something we don't and are preparing to cover your tracks when he flips green.
Blarraun, similarly is blustering a lot. Honestly, you give the impression of being more convinced about me, and just picking Hado because he's the popular choice. Maybe it doesn't matter to you who gets lynched, as long as it isn't you or your buddy.
I may be feeling a change in the wind. For some reason, I was thinking that we're still lynching like the last game (I know, I'm retarded). Since I know I still have time to think about it, I think there's a good chance I'll change my vote soon.
FOS Gopher FOS Blarraun
What do other people think about them? If you think I'm barking up the wrong tree, please tell me where I'm going wrong.
I've been lynched too fast for the last two games in a row. Dunno if it's bias for me to be scared here, but I'm gonna have a max of 2.5 hours in the morning to talk it all out. I've got four votes on me, and of those votes, I don't know whether those players will be here in the morning, or who's so fixed on a tunnel they can't not vote me, or who's scum. I also want to make sure that everyone is convinced that there was ample time to counter-claim.
I'd have preferred not to claim before I even get to use my power even once, but I seem to have botched it hard.
I'm tracker. There will be no counterclaim.
I'm changing my vote to Blarraun for a few reasons. Firstly, because he's already got votes on him and I want to live. Secondly, because he's more of an intuitive feel mafia. Thirdly, as much as I hate it, PMJ is genuinely lost in this game, and being sleep deprived and uber busy stops him from ever truly landing on his feet. Most of the things I pointed out are consistent with an exhausted dork and his pissing about then tunneling mirrors last game exactly. I'd expect him to learn, but he's under a lot of stress, and the sheer scumliness of Blar trumps the wifom "script" PMJ uses. Furthermore, if he were scum, I'd expect him to exercise more restraint. But w/e, I'm really relying on the claim to see me vindicated.
If someone counter-claims, lynch me first, then them tomorrow once you know I'm blue.
The power is so weak anyway... It's probably better as a 'get out of jail free', though even then I've wasted it by using it this early. It's quite difficult to get meaningful reads out of it.
And Sinny and Seattle count as one vote, WHAT KIND OF DEMOCRACY IS THIS!
Sinny, are you exaggerating your personality. Calling Spacelog a pussyhole for instance. Maybe I’ve spent too much time around you as mafia I don’t know what you’re actually like anymore. :P However I understand why you would do it as town or mafia for cheap town cred I’m just wondering if you would admit to doing that if it was the case
Blaruran is being a derp with the flavour text. He also said he wants to deny mafia knowing his style despite him posting his style last game. At this point it just looks like a good excuse to not say anything, it’s only a 48 hour long day by the time I sleep if I didn’t set an alarm it would be over. He also is the person with the weakest scum read on hado which is interesting.
Also has 5 null reads and two soft scum reads and one strong town read. I really don’t like this kind of play. It’s lurking in plain sight combined with his lack of ability to post if not for hado it makes me think of a mafia who has nothing to do. Compare him to last game where he came out swinging for the little time he was in it.
Seattle openly admitted to plotting to seem town. If I didn’t know any better I would assume he was time aslyums smurf. Shifts the focus off him but goes on spacelog in a natural way I like that?
Yea, I think Sete is literally just trying to up his Town game.. he'd have to be pulling to super meta with his alter egos to be playing scum right now.
(this has changed since I thought it but I’ll say it anyway)
The only person who doesn’t think hado is scummy is QT with a null read.
Hado comes back in and defaults on his promise. Pretty wifom. Either he realised that it was a stupid promise or he realised that people would pressure him over it. Hado calls an entire argument on him as fabricated. Now sure I also agree in part its pressuring things that don't entirely matter.
However... he does have one person ignoring him. Enter QT. The only person who is null on hado. Hado has his only strong town read as QT as well. (at least compared to his 0.5 on Seattle)
This has all the makings of a scum team and I want it timestamped. 18:38 whatever time that is in real time. HOWEVER. Due to my day one plans I might not vote for either of them.
Last game the third highest scum read was Sinny my top two was Happy and Helevte. That's the same in pretty much every game I've played. My top two reads day one have never been scum and my third has been surprisingly accurate while I like to think I'm smart and have gotten better than that... yeah lets go with statistics. So I'll probably end up voting Yellow, maybe Blar because Hado was also kinda funny with him. Both of them are in the nebulous realm.
Pfft. Personally I'd like to see you go in for a kill, which you yourself have personally stalked. Rather than shots in the dark.
Actually now I think about it Blar is far more factually scummy than Yellow but Yellow is more intuition scummy. Either way I’ll put my vote on blar because it is plurality which I would have been abusing more if not wanting to wait to make the point about my third most scummy person. I was going to encourage everyone to just vote their third most scummy read however I realised that this metric may only apply to me.
Anyway, I'm still really wondering WTF is up with Blarraun. And Gopher for that matter. Hado also isn't fighting the way I would expect when facing a Day 1 lynch.
@Gopher, you just made a good case against QT and Hado being in cahoots and acting suspicious, and then you voted for Blar. I'll admit that I'd put Blar about #2 or #3 on my list, but all that about them, and you pick him? Is it possible that you're throwing your vote away on purpose so you won't get blamed when Hado's lynched?
Seriously, though. You've given us a ton of encouragement for the Hado bandwagon, but no vote. Lots of puttering about "what if he's not really mafia and I'm tunneling him for no reason? I'mma tunnel some more".
I'm beginning to wonder if you know something we don't and are preparing to cover your tracks when he flips green.
Are you literally not reading my posts? Last game when I posted my previous game filters I noticed a quote that I said about how in every game I play, scum is my third highest day one read. Last game my third highest read day one was Sinny. That's what I was talking about when referring to my day one strategy. It's creepily accurate so I decided to go with it. I understand it's unconventional but I don't care. My hesitation with hado is he literally had -14.5 on the scum read compared to like -5 at the next highest. That seems very high for even a scum player to acquire although that was wifom since he gets into trouble as town I can only imagine it's worse as scum. Also while the game seems more balanced losing him early as a good player? Would suck.
Last game the third highest scum read was Sinny my top two was Happy and Helevte. That's the same in pretty much every game I've played. My top two reads day one have never been scum and my third has been surprisingly accurate while I like to think I'm smart and have gotten better than that... yeah lets go with statistics. So I'll probably end up voting Yellow, maybe Blar because Hado was also kinda funny with him. Both of them are in the nebulous realm. Actually now I think about it Blar is far more factually scummy than Yellow but Yellow is more intuition scummy. Either way I’ll put my vote on blar because it is plurality which I would have been abusing more if not wanting to wait to make the point about my third most scummy person. I was going to encourage everyone to just vote their third most scummy read however I realised that this metric may only apply to me.
I've been lynched too fast for the last two games in a row. Dunno if it's bias for me to be scared here, but I'm gonna have a max of 2.5 hours in the morning to talk it all out. I've got four votes on me, and of those votes, I don't know whether those players will be here in the morning, or who's so fixed on a tunnel they can't not vote me, or who's scum. I also want to make sure that everyone is convinced that there was ample time to counter-claim.
I'd have preferred not to claim before I even get to use my power even once, but I seem to have botched it hard.
"If it turns out hado is town yet again I'm going to find the best town player I know and get him coaching cause seriously... it's not funny at this point. (also I'll get myself reading coaching)"
This is assuming there isn't a counter claim of course.
Actually I don't know why you keep going around pronouncing that, my views changed.
I read Hado as green at this moment.
It actually is isn't it.
A propensity a number of you seem to process.
Yo B, time to roll your sleeves up.
Yea, I think Sete is literally just trying to up his Town game.. he'd have to be pulling to super meta with his alter egos to be playing scum right now.
False.
Hado does a lot of stupid things, regardless of alignment.
False.
Because?
Pfft. Personally I'd like to see you go in for a kill, which you yourself have personally stalked. Rather than shots in the dark.
Hmm, I do not know your true intention here..
But for the sake of everybody else Gopher is in my top 4 scum reads.
Hado, you best not be pulling off a large WIFOM on me, considering I told you that I'd probably try and save you from a full town lynch.
Psshht, nearly everyone thought hado was scum (at the time of writing) at that point in the thread. I was still catching up and posting my notes as they came. Maybe I miss read your change of opinion somewhere.
I've pretty much stopped updating the spreadsheet since I've rejoined the game properly so this is pretty true to what I had at the time. (note QT only changed his vote after I wrote he was null but before I posted the post)
Since the claim happened it can't hurt to give mafia this information and it might be interesting given recent events. (not factual necessarily just based on how I read peoples intentions)
"Hado does a lot of stupid things, regardless of alignment."
Obviously but have you ever seen him play scum? If he didn't just claim tracker I would have been very sus over this. But I still think you're town overall. My intuition on you is the opposite to last game so that's a good sign.
Either a tracker or a cop/jailer can counter-claim at this point. It's certain. Though we won't know for sure that he lied or not until one is revealed, if the jailer/cop/tracker decides it's strategically more sound to hold off(which it is!!!, isn't it? you can get a read in and counterclaim later instead.) If there is a cop/jailer by the matrix there can be no tracker.
So, I'm either a genius at subterfuge... or an idiot with very little experience, ineptly fumbling my way through the morass of text whilst simultaneously <winge>beingabusyguyinRL</whinge>
At this point, I’m suspicious of everyone who hasn’t voted. I may have assumed town yesterday, but their prolonged silence has me somewhat suspect (@QT / SquareBlog, mainly).
The IQ on here is higher than the places I’ve previously played, yes; looking at the type of conversation here alone proves this point - interacting with the various individuals confirms it further. Why is this an issue? I’m merely implying that it’s a harder game / harder to read people here compared to my previous games, because people are smarter. It has nothing to do with “Typological bias”. WTF?
I take that back, I had an impression that you were the recent author of the "intuitives are superior" thread. It wasn't you, not sure why I made this connection.
I'm actually annoyed that you aren't suspecting me or asking me any questions. Is it because you're mafia and I'm playing so bad and doing you a favour so you leave me alone?
I've been lynched too fast for the last two games in a row. Dunno if it's bias for me to be scared here, but I'm gonna have a max of 2.5 hours in the morning to talk it all out. I've got four votes on me, and of those votes, I don't know whether those players will be here in the morning, or who's so fixed on a tunnel they can't not vote me, or who's scum. I also want to make sure that everyone is convinced that there was ample time to counter-claim.
I'd have preferred not to claim before I even get to use my power even once, but I seem to have botched it hard.
I'm tracker. There will be no counterclaim.
I'm changing my vote to Blarraun for a few reasons. Firstly, because he's already got votes on him and I want to live. Secondly, because he's more of an intuitive feel mafia. Thirdly, as much as I hate it, PMJ is genuinely lost in this game, and being sleep deprived and uber busy stops him from ever truly landing on his feet. Most of the things I pointed out are consistent with an exhausted dork and his pissing about then tunneling mirrors last game exactly. I'd expect him to learn, but he's under a lot of stress, and the sheer scumliness of Blar trumps the wifom "script" PMJ uses. Furthermore, if he were scum, I'd expect him to exercise more restraint. But w/e, I'm really relying on the claim to see me vindicated.
If someone counter-claims, lynch me first, then them tomorrow once you know I'm blue.
The power is so weak anyway... It's probably better as a 'get out of jail free', though even then I've wasted it by using it this early. It's quite difficult to get meaningful reads out of it.
Whilst I admire your dedication, I do not believe your claim. Here’s why:
If you were “Blue”, you’re (obviously) town. Why, then, would you risk behaving so differently in such a position? Not only is it going to cause the townfolk to suspect you, it’s also going to be a red flag for the mafia. You aren’t exactly a ‘background character’ in these games. When you’re off-piste somehow, everybody stands up and takes notice. You know this. Why would you take such a stupid risk?
You wouldn’t. You’re smarter than that.
Like I said: you fucked it. I still think you’re a mafia, desperately clinging on. You hope that by making a quick switch to my new best friend, you’ll save your own arse. Everything coming from you over the past two pages reeks of desperation and surrender. If you are blue, you’re a tit. Let this be a lesson to you.
Also, whilst I appreciate the ‘’’’empathy’’’’, let us not overlook the fact that you made a weak ass case against me, wasting both my time and yours. You claim that I’m lost, but really – are you any better off?
I’m fairly certain there were better alternatives to pursue. You didn’t even really fight your corner; you just had a stab at me, threw your hands in the air in surrender and peace-d out. Not good enough.
I'm actually annoyed that you aren't suspecting me or asking me any questions. Is it because you're mafia and I'm playing so bad and doing you a favour so you leave me alone?
Who says I’m not suspecting you? If Hado hadn’t taken up my time earlier, chances are I would have been discussing my other speculations. Patience, dearest.
This will very likely be my last ‘big’ post for tonight, unless I can get some time in later on.
GL/HF.
Oh, and for the record:
FOS Gopher
FOS Blarraun
FOS ShapeBlog (dude - where the fuck are you?)
I no longer FOS Yellow, because I think she's made some great counter claims. I would like to clarify this further tomorrow.
Intuitive points against him:
His posts felt stiff(more than expected).
He asked a lot of questions that were irrelevant but could be considered "harsh"(this I consider the biggest red flag).
Questions- does his anger/hostility feel faked?
Targets:
He was primarily aggressive towards Hado and Yellow two of the primary targets.
+ He tried to test me with a seemingly clever test.
What's with this crap? What I don't like about your position here is how you've turned into the camp leader who's beyond suspicion just because of the way you're authoritative about phrasing things.
You're not hammering me because that would offend me? That's the weakest bullshit I've heard from you so far. More than anything it means that you have nothing solid on me and you're posturing being serious about me.
I'm quite certain that you won't find situation where I'm overly sensitive, save for Urakro's case which I had already explained my reasoning for elsewhere.
Tell me, what do you have on me really? What you've said to me so far is some inconclusive bullshit that's only adding to your false authority and faking effort.
Just so you know, I'm cool about this. I'm adding more meat and hostility between us to invite you to do the same and show you I'm fine and ready. Don't hold back man and ask me for real or admit it's your stupid test. I'm acting predictably and I will adjust to expectation if that's going to help everyone with understanding my position.
Town tell? depends on if real hostility/anger or not. It's not something I would see a mafia be able to do spontaneously. Particularly when he seemed to be against such things and it is so subtle it probably wouldn't be noticed as a plant or at all as it seems.
It's not an excuse to stay quiet, it was just me musing about the advantage I had coming into this game compared to the regular players. In fact my skirmish with Urakro only helps conceal my meta, maybe to my detriment since you're the kind of player to rely on past game experience and non-game related stuff to make your reads.
Again, his early game stiffness combined with such spontaneity is not something I would expect had he been mafia, particularly since it is so subtle and easy to miss if it was.
Overall his "anger" seems a bit too genuine in the later posts to constitute a good fake. I would say he is more likely to be genuine. Also moving combined with this game could make anyone grumpy.
Still, my read here is based on if his seeming anger is real or faked. Blarraun certainly has the capability to pull a fake like this off, I am just not so sure he would, there aren't good reasons to do so.
Reiterating again. Hados case for being town(or for at least not being killed tonight) is extremely strong because it's with certainty disprovable by town. (a town will either have a tracker, a cop or a jailer but not any 2 combined). The only situation that would be potentially negative is if he is normal town but claims tracker since that can fuck us later.
Him being tracker or mafia will always end up with a sum positive result from now on with him alive, as he would be killed the moment a claim is made(unless he can manipulate us into multiple bad votes while no one claims, be vary of this.) Just remember to make the claim, if you can, with at least 2 nights left as it would count for nothing on the last day.
I was considering whether Hado is one of the power roles. I assumed he might've been a bulletproof townie and that would make sense based on his weak play and not worrying about accusations too much. Not sure if BP knows they are BP, I'd have to check that right now.
I've been lynched too fast for the last two games in a row. Dunno if it's bias for me to be scared here, but I'm gonna have a max of 2.5 hours in the morning to talk it all out. I've got four votes on me, and of those votes, I don't know whether those players will be here in the morning, or who's so fixed on a tunnel they can't not vote me, or who's scum. I also want to make sure that everyone is convinced that there was ample time to counter-claim.
I'd have preferred not to claim before I even get to use my power even once, but I seem to have botched it hard.
I'm changing my vote to Blarraun for a few reasons. Firstly, because he's already got votes on him and I want to live. Secondly, because he's more of an intuitive feel mafia. I'd expect him to learn, but he's under a lot of stress, and the sheer scumliness of Blar trumps the wifom "script" PMJ uses. Furthermore, if he were scum, I'd expect him to exercise more restraint. But w/e, I'm really relying on the claim to see me vindicated.
Why are you ignoring me this whole time? I am assuming that you have an unrelated bias against me similar to the way Urakro had, or my town play seems very bad borderline scum in your view.
I'm asking you to be more constructive, don't ignore me like you've been doing this entire game. Explain your shit claims, because right now there's no meat behind them. I'm willing to believe you're tracker, because this can be easily confirmed by the other power role if needed. So far you're acting as if you don't owe talking to anyone because you're going to be the decisive factor for the town win.
Blarraun, similarly is blustering a lot. Honestly, you give the impression of being more convinced about me, and just picking Hado because he's the popular choice. Maybe it doesn't matter to you who gets lynched, as long as it isn't you or your buddy.
Your explanations don't hold up, of course I'm going to suspect you. So since you're playing properly why I see no change? You're still keeping a low profile and throwing a scattering of weak thoughts out. You would get my first vote if your play was any better, but it's terribly lazy and in line with my understanding that it's caused by low experience and time.
Quick Twist made a post about it here. To do it you need to be in the RPG subforum and click on the number of posts to the right of the thread name on the board list.
Then what about my town play needs improvement? What's so scummy about what I do in this game? Am I scummy to you by default? You're not giving me much in terms of rational arguments.
That said you've adjusted your play in the last two posts to be much more open and aggressive. Which is good. I'm not sure if it's in reaction to me but I'll just assume my vote is working.
Still, my read here is based on if his seeming anger is real or faked. Blarraun certainly has the capability to pull a fake like this off, I am just not so sure he would, there aren't good reasons to do so.
My anger wasn't real. I clearly said in that post that I'm upping the hostility between myself and Hado on purpose to allow him to play more freely and start answering me.
See here:
Just so you know, I'm cool about this. I'm adding more meat and hostility between us to invite you to do the same and show you I'm fine and ready. Don't hold back man and ask me for real or admit it's your stupid test. I'm acting predictably and I will adjust to expectation if that's going to help everyone with understanding my position.
I'm not going to lose control in a game like this. I may react emotionally to some personal things but it's rare and usually requires sufficiently recognisable personal involvement from other people involved.
If I'm reacting emotionally in this game, it's because I allowed myself to and found it beneficial towards the win condition.
Reiterating again. Hados case for being town(or for at least not being killed tonight) is extremely strong because it's with certainty disprovable by town. (a town will either have a tracker, a cop or a jailer but not any 2 combined). The only situation that would be potentially negative is if he is normal town but claims tracker since that can fuck us later.
I agree, his claim appears strong as a rock. I can imagine him going into this game with a mindset for experimentation. He was looking to change a few things and improve his play and that's how he's gotten so much attention from the past crowd.
My updated reads are as follows:
Hado, firmly in the green.
Sete, gets a few more green cents for good reasoning.
Yellow and Sinny, both null. Yellow is playing terribly imo, she's not convincing and she's not doing work, but the same can be said about me so I'm not holding it against her.
PMJ, Gopher suspected actives. Both are acting foolhardy in their own way and I'm afraid mutual communication will be difficult.
Shapelog, QT are my suspected inactives. I'm waiting on their input on Hado and others. They are so much behind the clock that I need to become suspicious about them again.
Okay just to avoid edits. I see bulletproof is distinct from lynchproof. I know all the potential roles now. So scratch the beginning of my previous post and insert Doctor/other instead of bulletproof. Bulletproof isn't a good role to reveal anyway it appears.
Someone is going to have to explain to my why Hado suddenly saying "I'm town!1!!!" suddenly makes him very likely to be town, and why everyone is apparently ignoring the point I raised about a woefully inept play style.
Someone is going to have to explain to my why Hado suddenly saying "I'm town!1!!!" suddenly makes him very likely to be town, and why everyone is apparently ignoring the point I raised about a woefully inept play style.
I'm not losing sight of it. I think too much expectation on his proficiency and preparedness was placed well beforehand, that stands to the detriment of him getting away with any adjustments. Gopher only helped fuel this suspicion with his wild accusation based on unsubstantiated guessing, some private convo and generic trivia spam.
I don't even see the point of claiming tracker. Reading the description, it seems like the most impotent role imaginable.
However, without a decent counterclaim, I think I'm willing to believe him.
unvote Hadoblado
Gopher: I really don't like the arguments about past play habits and about past conversations. I mean, I was suspicious of Hado, but not only does it seem a little below the belt, but it seems like you're trying to make something from nothing. I really don't care that your 3rd biggest lead always ends up scum. It's really rubbing me the wrong way.
We have 3 hours, and I might switch again, but for now:
Well, the most obvious choice for me was Hado, but I now realise that the Hado vote is going to shit... based on some shaky claim he made. About being a crap, largely useless role. GG, everyone. Well done.
-_-
United front > clear-cut result > data gained; now everything is a mess, and day one will end up being far more ambiguous. I'm a fan of ambiguity, but ffs. There's no staying power around these parts. You change direction as quickly as the wind. Dodgy fuckers, the lot of you.
My vote will remain on Hado; perhaps in my absence (I'm going to bed now) someone will see sense and vote in favour of him being offed. Allow me to state clearly (if I haven't already) I do not trust his claim. I think he's desperate, and clutching at straws. One needs only look at his wet fart of an argument against myself to see that.
No. I'm trying to annoy the fuck out of your ugly self to learn a bit more about how you operate.
You're under observation, as per my last comprehensive list. I'm trying to see what can tick you off balance and what are your overall reactions, it may be useful later.
Sure, I checked the setup. Assuming RB selected column/row only it would make tracker only pairable with a second pro-town PR such as bulletproof or doc.
No. I'm trying to annoy the fuck out of your ugly self to learn a bit more about how you operate.
You're under observation, as per my last comprehensive list. I'm trying to see what can tick you off balance and what are your overall reactions, it may be useful later.
That would be too risky to take a 33% bet for Hado.
Also it would be simpler down the road to pretend to be the Jailkeeper or Cop as they have 50% to be vanilla townie setup and thus a more random sample than the (Always 2 power roles) one.
Oh well, on the bright side it looks like enough people have read my claim.
PMJ and Yellow, Blar is right. Look at the matrix if you can. There's 6 possibilities. Two of them have tracker, but the other four have town roles that exclude the possibility that there's a tracker. No matter what setup it is, if I claim tracker, there's at least one person that can counter-claim.
Assuming I'm telling the truth, we're either on line C or 3. There are no red power roles, and town either has a doctor or a bullet-proof. Otherwise, there's a cop or jailkeeper who could step forward to instantly lynch me. For the sake of me convincing you my claim is real, if this person exists (which I know they don't), it's important that they counter-claim and kill me, who they now know without a doubt to be mafia.
Wish I could. Many situations in life would be way more enjoyable if I was capable of having more of those random mood swings or sudden bursts of intense emotion.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Matrix6 here is the matrix. The only choices are the a-c lines or 1-3 lines. That's a total of 6 possible combinations. In this case, 3 and C are the only ones that work(if he is telling the truth). If it was a lie 2,b lines would have a cop. 1,a lines would have a jailer. (while 3,c has a tracker)
PMJ
You're not this retarded. If you insist on being this retarded I'm going to change my mind and vote you. You were supposed to approach tunneling me with caution after last game. Instead, you're tunneling me straight through an unanswered blue claim. That is stone cold stupid. This isn't some bully tact antics, what you're doing here doesn't make sense. Fuck off with your flippant nonsense. You need to make a meaningful vote.
Then what about my town play needs improvement? What's so scummy about what I do in this game? Am I scummy to you by default? You're not giving me much in terms of rational arguments.
I feel like I need to work harder here. At the beginning I wasn't sure what to do, now I'm beginning to notice how difficult this game actually is.
Well before this recent spat of voting you were essentially lurking until called out on it. Even now you have the second lowest post count. You're also having some funny interactions with some members and don't match up to your previous style (admittedly for the brief time we saw you last game) That said the quality of your posts have swung massively recently putting you in fourth (before claim which is what my intuition should go on) which means I should probably change my vote to yellow. (particularly in light of the post below)
That said I'm beginning to associate you with yellow now which is something I really shouldn't be doing. Also you've finally given reads on more than a few people which means at the very least you've committed yourself. Also you're being sensible about the claim which is nice.
I don't even see the point of claiming tracker. Reading the description, it seems like the most impotent role imaginable.
However, without a decent counterclaim, I think I'm willing to believe him.
unvote Hadoblado
Gopher: I really don't like the arguments about past play habits and about past conversations. I mean, I was suspicious of Hado, but not only does it seem a little below the belt, but it seems like you're trying to make something from nothing. I really don't care that your 3rd biggest lead always ends up scum. It's really rubbing me the wrong way.
We have 3 hours, and I might switch again, but for now:
Well I don't particularly care if it rubs you the wrong way. If I cared about what way I rubbed people I would be playing a different game. I do however find it awfully convenient now you've "lost" the Hado lynch you're coming after me. Particularly when you seem so annoyed about losing it. (see post below) So in a round about way you're getting what you asked for, I'm voting for you. Also what do you mean you might switch again? Not confident about being aggressive for when I flip green?
The only time there wouldn't be a counter claim imo would be setup two. The doctor wouldn't have a reason to counter claim it would only be the cop. The cop is far to powerful to just claim outright if I was them I would just wait an extra night at least. Gives two reads.
That said it doesn't really matter if that's the case why would we want to still lynch him and potentially lose a town which we'll find out isn't a town later if someone claims?
Also stop talking about it. You don't want to give mafia an idea of the other power role/s.
PMJ
You're not this retarded. If you insist on being this retarded I'm going to change my mind and vote you. You were supposed to approach tunneling me with caution after last game. Instead, you're tunneling me straight through an unanswered blue claim. That is stone cold stupid. This isn't some bully tact antics, what you're doing here doesn't make sense. Fuck off with your flippant nonsense. You need to make a meaningful vote.
Assuming I'm telling the truth, we're either on line C or 3. There are no red power roles, and town either has a doctor or a bullet-proof. Otherwise, there's a cop or jailkeeper who could step forward to instantly lynch me. For the sake of me convincing you my claim is real, if this person exists (which I know they don't), it's important that they counter-claim and kill me, who they now know without a doubt to be mafia.
What if this is just a ploy to expose our real PR's on his way out?
If Hado is scum, then he's still playing to win the scum objective. He's doing what he can at the last minute to help his scum buddy, who will be all alone against the rest of town. He's outing at least one, and getting in one last jab.
If Hado is town, then he's failing to win the town objective. He's putting his individual survival above the town by broadcasting to the mafia what his power role is, and letting them narrow down who else might be around.
Sure, you can say that if he's telling the truth and he's lynched, they'll both know anyway.
My question is, why is he still going on about it? He's said his piece, and we're all watching. Why not go back to scum-hunting? Is the supposed town objective over and done with now that he's facing a lynch?
unvote Gopher
vote Hadoblado
@Sinny & Sete, what do you think about Hado facing a lynch? Your vote isn't on him, it's on me. Why shouldn't we lynch Hado?
@Shapelog, do you think Hado is scum? Who are you voting for?
@Blarraun, if not Hado, then who?
Why aren't you guys making more noise in his defense?
What if this is just a ploy to expose our real PR's on his way out?
If Hado is scum, then he's still playing to win the scum objective. He's doing what he can at the last minute to help his scum buddy, who will be all alone against the rest of town. He's outing at least one, and getting in one last jab.
If Hado is town, then he's failing to win the town objective. He's putting his individual survival above the town by broadcasting to the mafia what his power role is, and letting them narrow down who else might be around.
Sure, you can say that if he's telling the truth and he's lynched, they'll both know anyway.
My question is, why is he still going on about it? He's said his piece, and we're all watching. Why not go back to scum-hunting? Is the supposed town objective over and done with now that he's facing a lynch?
unvote Gopher
vote Hadoblado
@Sinny & Sete, what do you think about Hado facing a lynch? Your vote isn't on him, it's on me. Why shouldn't we lynch Hado?
@Shapelog, do you think Hado is scum? Who are you voting for?
@Blarraun, if not Hado, then who?
Why aren't you guys making more noise in his defense?
No, I can see PJM being this stupid, but you? I can't believe it, this entire post and discussion is utter BS. This stuff is so freaking obvious and simple I don't even know. It has been explained step by step multiple times and the only way to miss it at this point is intentionally.
I need to start spilling my guts now, because if the other role isn't a doctor, I likely won't get another chance.
Sinny: scripting, but hasn't fucked up at all yet. Over time, the likelihood of her fucking up as scum increases. Basically I plan on waiting and if she lasts long enough while playing aggressive and not fucking up she's probably town.
Yellow: scripting. Is back and forth and wishy washy. My read on Yellow flip flops every few seconds. Similar to Sinny, the longer this goes on the higher the likelihood we pick up on something.
PMJ: Also flipflopping on PMJ. I can't understand how he cares so little about who is lynched that he'd tunnel a blue claim even when there's no counter. He's had no sleep, and that thing he did where he couldn't work out his spoilers was very risky to try if he was scum. That said, I wouldn't be surprised.
Blarraun: Asked me a whole bunch of useless questions, layered with silly accusations. Doesn't feel pressure? That doesn't sound right for a first time player. Misunderstands what I'm saying (talks about multiple games when I'm talking only about this one). I dunno. I know he and I have difficulty understanding one another. I also know he knows this. TBH Blar I've ignored you because you're confusing and unlike other games, I've limited the time I can put in here.
Gopher: He backed off on voting me. This is important. I don't know about the timings, but if when he jumped off my wagon I was all but lynched, this is scummy. If he jumped off when I wasn't really lynched, this is more in his favour. I want to keep him alive so I get to see more of him.
QT: I read him green. His play is consistent with someone with low time and a scummish meta. But he's shown me several times that his intentions are green. I won't go into it now (I've already got it in a doco ready to go, but don't see the point of revealing it), but spacedog picked up on the same thing.
Spacedog: Slightly green. Very slight. More a 'leave until later' than actual green. The way he's acted has been good for town, but he's made things confusing. Several times I've got small green reads off him, but it's been a less consistent read than what I got off QT.
Sete: Scripting. But his contribution has been quite good. If he was acting this way without having decided to first I would read him as full green.
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I have no words. Actually I do hold up.
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