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INTP to ENTJ "Transmutation" = when ? Please help !

DIALECTIC

Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
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281
#1
Hello !



There are specific occurences/times in life when clearly i do shift from a typical shy/reserved/introspective INTP having problems to express my toughts into words, to an extrospective/super charismatic/super productive (even ruthless at times ha !) ENTJ who can motivate others, organize shit together, find solutions where there wouldn't be any, find just the right words in the right situations etc etc. I love ENTJ's and i love it when i therefore seem to transform into one as it's like feeling on top of the world, for a while, while the magic lasts...

It seems to happen randomly but i would like to know if anyone of you are aware of the same tendency and if so, is there a way to induce it ?

I am aware of the ESFJ shadow type of the INTP (in fact, sadly the 2/3rd of my life i acted as a very negative form of ESFJ: think of a satanic Mother Theresa; however as a hidden gem/bonus i am now able to manage quite well "Fe" but at 39 years of age maybe it was about time ha !) but i just can't quite grasp how does the "ENTJ" part gets into action ? Why ? How ? When ?

Being around an ENTJ or even just listening to one for a while (for example JOE ROGAN, who made me change life around, for the better !) is enough to give me energy/motivation and i sorta feel powered up !

I would greatly appreciate if you could give me some info so i can understand the in's and out's of this process...
 

Pizzabeak

*Guardians of the Galaxy*
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#2
I mean, I'm sure that can happen but I never thought of it as temporarily changing types, necessarily. In my own life there are moments where I'm feeling more enthusiastic and "louder" than normal but I won't go so far as to say I changed types for 3 days, then changed back to whatever type I was in the first place. I know extraverts that get quiet during certain moods.
But maybe changing type temporarily is something that may be allowed! Kind of similar to classical physicists vs the quantum physicists when that whole era was going on.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#3
you are NiTe (if not TeNi). your avatar and username scream PiJe, but liking joe rogan confirms it.

so, you do not have an esfj shadow, yada yada (Ni><Se)


i think PiJe going semi-JePi happens, whenever it's possible. meaning it's not an internal change, simply using an opportunity. when the situation calls not only for JePi in general, but for JePi with your particular content (strategy, ideas, values, visions, readiness) and when no other/real JePi type is around, who matches the criteria. i think it would be the worst personality disorder for PiJe types, if we faked contents, in order to come into that position at will. because then we would literally give up Pi dominance. but in my understanding of type, this means destroying our energy flow. in my experience, Pi dominance is hypercritical about the situation. we only go into determined J mode, when the vision is in perfect alignment with the situation and that rarely happens (because our vision is also hyper daring and experimental - that is the strength of Pi dominance). otherwise we teach our vision in a generalized way and leave implementation to be the problem of other folks.
 

DIALECTIC

Active Member
Joined
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#4
you are NiTe (if not TeNi). your avatar and username scream PiJe, but liking joe rogan confirms it.
Do you mean i am NiTe or TeNi on a regular basis ? Quite "Ni" at times (during intense moments of epiphany) YES and loving it, however the "Te" part definitely not often at all, but i think very much so when i was younger. In fact my best friend many years ago was INTJ, now we have zero in common; i found him superficial, arrogant, intolerant... And he finds me no doubt too tolerant, too esoteric, etc. The only time we seem to get along is when he's DOWN ! Then his ego is shattered so we seem to have more in common...

so, you do not have an esfj shadow, yada yada (Ni><Se)
Please elaborate. I am definitely not an ESFJ anymore but for the 2/3rd of my life i alternated between INTP and a very negative instance of ESFJ. The INTP part of me would build actual "empires" and the ESFJ would come along/pop up when stressed and indirectly obliterates things through emotions.

Do you think my shadow is more likely to be ENTJ ? I thought the shadow of INTP is ESFJ ?

Someone recently told me Epic music is a typical "xNTJ" taste... And i love Epic music, it seems to fuel/amplify my thinking power when it's already up there a bit...


i think PiJe going semi-JePi happens, whenever it's possible.
Never came across "PiJe"/"JePi" before... Could you elaborate please ? I gather it means introverted Perceiver/Extroverted Judger ?

meaning it's not an internal change, simply using an opportunity. when the situation calls not only for JePi in general, but for JePi with your particular content (strategy, ideas, values, visions, readiness) and when no other/real JePi type is around, who matches the criteria.
I do think you're right here... So it would happen when a situation/reality meets my vision ? Some sort of sleeping super enthusiasm that wakes up if the situation is an opportunity for it to seize ? Maybe the longer it slept and the bigger the opportunity the more intense the "transmutation" ?

i think it would be the worst personality disorder for PiJe types, if we faked contents, in order to come into that position at will. because then we would literally give up Pi dominance.
Please elaborate again. I am a bit lost about PiJe types (what are they ?) and "Pi dominance" (do you mean anyone both Introverted and Perceiver at once ?)

but in my understanding of type, this means destroying our energy flow. in my experience, Pi dominance is hypercritical about the situation. we only go into determined J mode, when the vision is in perfect alignment with the situation and that rarely happens (because our vision is also hyper daring and experimental - that is the strength of Pi dominance).
I personally find "J" to be a lot more hypercritical than i am (INTP). That's usually why i can't get along with most, including my ISTJ mum or my ESTJ girlfriend (who seems to have become a super negative form of INTP -her shadow type- over the last 4 years since her dad, then mum, died; in the same time i also changed, a lot, to the point that we now have ZERO in common) !

otherwise we teach our vision in a generalized way and leave implementation to be the problem of other folks
It's so hard most of the times to express my thoughts. At times it even seems that i sorta forgot "everything" ("Abaissement du niveau mental" Jung would say ?)... It can last days on hand, then suddenly my thinking power feels like it's driven by nuclear fuel... It seems things have been made for INTP not to teach others directly but sorta lead by example... However when i am into "ENTJ" mode (i call it the "God mode") i feel like i can do anything, people around me take notice, get motivated, energized etc. the same way Rogan always does it for me !

However the weird part is, when i am into "ENTJ" mode i find ENTJ to be "bullies" at times, including Rogan !
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
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#5
>I gather it means introverted Perceiver/Extroverted Judger ?

correct. i prefer to use abstract language, when i say something that is more or less true for all types with the same structure.

you may also be an INFp (NiFe), pushing his Ti/Fe. (would explain when you act up in Fe dominat ways. in introvert Ni doms, who are btw prone to appearing autistic because of NiSe, the Fe is often dysfunctional. the aux Je is only informing us about tabus, on most days. we haven't learned to use it to set the tone (Fe) or to be strategically smart (Te).

even worse, when aux Te tries to imitate Fe.

>Never came across "PiJe"/"JePi" before

yes you did. if you do an dichotomy test and you are a perceiver, than you are Pi dominant. Pi dominant types are the irrational types who don't care about implementation and don't plan anything, except for dealing with life through primitive habits, because they can't ignore it altogether. they are the open ended esoteric seekers and idealistic visionaries, the INTP, in mbti, keirseys, socionics.

your friend might be the naturally arrogant (Ti) and objective (Ne) type, the implementation driven bookish scientist, the methodologically stubborn and totally independent in judgement and therefore totally anti-authoritative type, with a knack for (selfish/opportunistic) rebellion through Ne. the INTJ in mbti, keriseys, socioncs. that's why you are too esoteric (Ni) for him. Ti doms can be assertive about the WHAT and the HOW TO, they go into the direction of entp when they act up.

if i have to spell it out: the mbti function table is a "lie". myer briggs had zero understanding of cognitive functions, so she/"they" totally messed it up, when she tried to explain the given types though functions. mbti is based on dichtomies, not on functions. mbti was also inspired by "big 5" or whatever.

don't take the shadow thing so literally. you can create all sorts of shadows through your self management, that's not what the typological shadow functions is about though.

>I personally find "J" to be a lot more hypercritical than i am (INTP)

you misunderstand what i mean. what i mean doesn't happen in your istj mom.

what i mean is the typical relationship of Ni and the Se shadow. difficult to explain. i'm talking about being critical about what can be achieved in this situation, as in: seeing how much could go wrong right now. this is pretty much the exact opposite of the freedom of Ne-Si (think entp/enfp). NiSe is like: the world is a clockwork and if i don't have the exact right gearwheel (idealistic vision of Ni) to match the clockwork (sensory vision of what IS), then i would rather not get involved right now. (because growing my vision is more important than testing it, and i fear seing it smashed by reality). this is why INTP PiDoms are open ended implementation avoiding seekers - on most days of their life. Te doms live in another world, they want to do different things, so they have different criteria for when what they want to do is possible, so they can act all the time (if only talk, discuss something). Ni doms would even avoid discussions, in order to do more silent channeling of vision. even talk can smash a vision, especially when talk brings along an overwhelming amount of useless data (such as a discussion with TiSe types (ISTJ) would). avoiding being overwhelmed with real life data (Se) and avoiding confident use of aux Je together makes for the pattern of behavior that is associated with high functioning autism or aspergers or schizoid PD and HSP. NiSe is hyperfocused and hyper specialized. the specialization can be as broad as "the kosmos", and it is often (NiSe is a wordlview combo), but it's specialized in abstract ways. such as only exploring philosophy and psychology, but not reading autobiographies or going to parties, because these things are too difficult to digest into the internal vision you are currently working on.

>that i sorta forgot "everything"

all Ni doms are quasi demented.

i don't know you or your type, but i choose to discuss this under the assumption that you are indeed a PiJe type, a true introverted perceiver. to see what happens... this is the linear trial and error style of Je discussion.

ENTJ are hosting types, and the natural shadow to that responsibility (taking people into your care, by taking in their perspectives) is bullying. "your perspective is no good in my vision of synthesizing the contributions/perspectives of all the people that i want to host/merge under one paradigm" - "you are such a joke!"
 

redbaron

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#6
@DIALECTIC hi. Out of curiosity, what's your line of work?

I'm an INTP and I've been doing the same things you describe for the past few years. I worked with an ENTJ colleague and we both helped each other balance out our methods. I am as you describe as well, quite ruthless when the situation demands it, motivate and lead other people.

In the end our personalities at work have both meshed a little bit, where we're a little bit more like the other. Others often comment as well on how we're so similar, although I would say our only similarity is that we want to see a result, and people slacking off or getting distracted won't be tolerated. I think the key difference though is in how we lead our respective teams.

I like to impart knowledge, to increase people's awareness so that they ultimately understand what is right. He generally tells people what method to follow and what is expected of everyone. Working with each other, I've realised that a combination of the two is required depending on the personalities of the people you're managing. Some people respond well to one method, some respond better to another.

I do find being around ENTJ's to be motivating at work myself, because they are task-orientated and want to see results (so do I). It is refreshing to have someone around who naturally wants to get work done as opposed to gossip. I've learnt to emulate that quality at work, the, 'no-bullshit, I don't care about your issues, just get me a result' attitude - while tempering it with empathetic and more introspective, analytical pursuits. I wouldn't say I can summon it on a whim, but I generally prepare myself before work to be ready to organize and lead people, which I find makes my ability to summon that organizing and uncompromising personality much easier.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
1,640
#7
Welcome. Thanks for the greeting.

There are specific occurences/times in life when clearly i do shift from a typical shy/reserved/introspective INTP having problems to express my toughts into words, to an extrospective/super charismatic/super productive (even ruthless at times ha !) ENTJ who can motivate others, organize shit together, find solutions where there wouldn't be any, find just the right words in the right situations etc etc. I love ENTJ's and i love it when i therefore seem to transform into one as it's like feeling on top of the world, for a while, while the magic lasts...

It seems to happen randomly but i would like to know if anyone of you are aware of the same tendency and if so, is there a way to induce it ?

I am aware of the ESFJ shadow type of the INTP (in fact, sadly the 2/3rd of my life i acted as a very negative form of ESFJ: think of a satanic Mother Theresa; however as a hidden gem/bonus i am now able to manage quite well "Fe" but at 39 years of age maybe it was about time ha !) but i just can't quite grasp how does the "ENTJ" part gets into action ? Why ? How ? When ?

Being around an ENTJ or even just listening to one for a while (for example JOE ROGAN, who made me change life around, for the better !) is enough to give me energy/motivation and i sorta feel powered up !

I would greatly appreciate if you could give me some info so i can understand the in's and out's of this process...
It's interesting that you ask about this.

1) I've been thinking about this for several months, that it could be possible that INTPs might occasionally switch into ENTJ-mode.

A while back, I noticed that Jung described I/E as a general attitude-type, but functions only as function-types. The word general, means that something is generally true, but sometimes not true. It thus occurred to me, that what could have been implying, was that introverts are generally introverted, but sometimes extroverted, and extroverts would be generally extroverted, but sometimes introverted. He also separated the characteristics of personality into 2 separate factors, one being the general attitude type, and the other being the function-type[/b]. If that was the case, then an Introverted Thinking Type with auxiliary intuition, would generally act Introvertedly with T-N, making Ti-Ne, and then sometimes he would act Extrovertedly with T-N, making Te-Ni.

I also read that Jung saw himself as 2 characters. One, a schoolboy. The other, a businessman about town. When he was young, he was not sure which was the real him. I then considered that many have concluded that Jung described himself as Ti-Ne, based on what he said about his type in the interview he gave in later life. Then, if my idea was correct, he too would sometimes be Te-Ni, which woul make him an ENTJ in MBTI terms, and ENTJs are often typed online as CEOs, because J gives them the desire to take charge, E gives them the ability to deal with people and give them directions successfully, being a Te-dom gives them the practical know-how to deal with business decisions, and Ni gives them the ability to come up with new ideas to deal with difficult problems, and particularly to capitalise on new business opportunities, which often pass swiftly, and require a mind open to inspiration on how to address them. All in all, this suggested to me, that what Jung had experienced as a young child, could be an INTP who sometimes flicks over into ENTJ-mode.

I also considered my own experiences. I was extremely impractical for much of my life. But whatever job I was doing, I was always interested in understanding the running of the business, and seemed to readily understand the needs of businesses. This seemed to be natural for me, even though I was incredibly impractical. It made a lot of bosses treat me like their equal, as I understood their needs as well as my own, and they often suggested that I should move into management. I couldn't understand this, as I was so impractical. However, once I came to the notion that it might be possible for an INTP to sometimes switch into being like an ENTJ, it suddenly made perfect sense.

As I said, I've been thinking this for several months. I don't think I've mentioned it yet in my online posts here or on any other site. So I find it interesting that you came to this observation independently.

2) I've noticed on INTJf, that INTJs regularly posted they get on with ENTPs when it comes to discussing ideas, and ENTPs seemed to post as if they thought that ENTPs got on with INTJs as well. One ENTP even used that as one of his arguments to suggest that Mark Ruffalo's characterisation of Dr Bruce Banner in the film "Avengers Assemble", was an INTJ, because of how well he got on with ENTP Robert Downey Jr's characterisation of Tony Stark as an ENTP. Downey always seems to play his roles as an ENTP. Male INTJs also seemed to say they get on well with dating female ENFPs, and ENFPs seemed to like dating them a lot as well.

Anyway, it occurred to me, that if INTJs and ENTPs got on so well with ideas, and INTJs and ENFPs got on so well with dating, then it must be something to do with typology. INTJs are Ni-Te. ENTPs are Ne-Ti. ENFPs are Ne-Fi. All are N-doms. So they are, in Jungian typology and Socionics, of the same intrinsic dominance, just with their attitudes reversed. The auxiliary function reflects this as well. With ideas, the auxiliary function is T for both, using reason to support their ideas. In relationships, the male has the T-based judging function, which is the typical male approach, and the female takes the F-based judging function, which is the typical female approach, and so each would show the traditional gender roles without realising it, and then each would act as the other expects.

All this made me think, that maybe there was something to this, that if an Ni-Te would get on well in work with an Ne-Ti, then maybe a Ti-Ne would get on well in work with a Te-Ni, an ENTJ. So your experiences support my predictions.

3) The keynote of change in my theory, is extroversion. I propose, that when you feel more introverted, more willing to be alone, to stay away from others and to not make an impact in the world, that you are more Ti-Ne, more INTP. When you feel more extroverted, more willing to be around others, to make an impact on the world, and when you feel more confident to take charge, or even when you simply feel that someone HAS to take charge and no-one else will so you step up and take charge, you'll be more extroverted, and so you'll switch to Te-Ni, and so come across more like an ENTJ. Being extroverted is not an INTP's general attitude type. So this probably doesn't happen generally. But, when the situation demands it, or when you feel like being around other people, it probably comes out naturally.

4) To develop this, simply be more extroverted. Try spending more time with other people. Try being more objectively-oriented in Jungian terms, that is, try to focus on the objective task, try to focus on the similarities, the things that most people would agree are present in the task, and less time on the subjective qualities, the things you notice, or that apply to you, that most people do not notice and do not apply to most people.

Over time, I'm confident that an introvert such as yourself can learn to know when he is being extroverted, and how to trigger it, and then you can use it to be an ENTJ when you need to. Handy to have another skill in your bag of tricks.
 

Words

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#8
It's easy for me to be practical-minded when I really feel like it. I can easily formulate efficient plans and strategies, I can easily organize myself, I can easily pinpoint effective course of actions, even better than most Te-types. It's basically the same as tinkering with a system and being systematical minded. That is, I'm great at this when I'm alone. The hard part is when you have to order people around. You have to adapt your plans to the capabilities, motivations and the irregularities of your underlings. You have to restructure your entire organizational framework to fit these people. The presence of subjects/people means you have to deal with the uncomfortable state of factoring in variances and improbabilities. I am most capable when I'm dealing with objects or machines, rather than people. But I do think it's translatable. I currently have two people under me so I get to practice and learn how basically Ti and Te are the same thing, but with slight adjustments. Cohering your decisions with a group of people is its own challenge.
 

Systems

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#9
Specific behaviour at a given moment does not equal to specific type. Don't limit yourself on account of identifying yourself as an intp, but on the other hand, don't think that you change type, just because you act a little out of the ordinary.

Typing becomes meaningless if it's just stereotyping of ones actions at any given moment. It's not (very much) about what you do, but rather how you do them. The procesesses are the determining factor, and if you look closer, you will likely find, that they really are quite consistent, with perhaps stress being a factor, when that is not the case.
 

DIALECTIC

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#10
Apologies for the late answer...

Apologies also as i can't really express myself with words at the moment (too many abstract thoughts in my head to instantiate them perfectly) so i am going tc come up with a short message about what i have been thinking about earlier today...


Right, now some pure speculation: could it be that INTP's (and all types as a matter of fact) have 3 personalities ? I certainly do myself !!

#1 - Clearly their main one: INTP - extremely introverted/conservative, stays in the background, stays in his head rather than interacting with people, is strongly driven by unbounded/ultra rational Ti...

#2 - His negative/shadow "twin": ESFJ - extremely extroverted/liberal, stays in the foreground, very gossipy, very opportunistic, notices any detail, loves to be the centre of attention (out of unsecurity), strongly driven by unbounded emotions of Fe...

#3 - A "synergy" of both INTP + ESFJ characteristics/traits = ENTJ A super efficient/charismatic ruthless and fearless leader driven by fervour / passion / teleogy... The "God mode" of the INTP ! :)


So when thorough preparation (INTP) meets ideal circumstances/opportunity (ESFJ) we then end up with the sublation of both ie the ENTJ ! You all know Seneca's famous words:

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"...





In other terms, we could even say:

- The INTP is like the initial "thesis" (Ti Ne Si Fe);

- The ESFJ is its conflicting "antithesis" (Fe Si Ne Ti);

- And eventually, the "synthesis" of both (Te Ni Se Fi) gives us an "artificial"/temporary ENTJ for the very purpose of a specific situation we are facing ?


Any thought ?
 

Duxwing

I've Overcome Existential Despair
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#11
Apologies for the late answer...

Apologies also as i can't really express myself with words at the moment (too many abstract thoughts in my head to instantiate them perfectly) so i am going tc come up with a short message about what i have been thinking about earlier today...


Right, could it be that INTP's (and all types as a matter of fact) have 3 personalities ? I certainly do myself !!

#1 - Clearly their main one: INTP - extremely introverted, stays in the background, stays in his head rather than interacting with people, is strongly driven by unbounded/ultra rational Ti...

#2 - His negative/shadow "twin": ESFJ - extremely extroverted, stays in the foreground, very gossipy, very opportunistic, notices any detail, loves attention (out of unsecurity), strongly driven by unbounded emotions of Fe...

#3 - A "synergy" of both INTP + ESFJ characteristics/traits = ENTJ A super efficient/charismatic ruthless and fearless leader driven by fervour / passion... The "God mode" of the INTP ! :)


So when thorough preparation (INTP) meets ideal circumstances/opportunity (ESFJ) we then end up with the ENTJ ! You all know Seneca's famous words:
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"...

In other terms we could even say:

- The INTP is like the "thesis" (Ti Ne Si Fe);

- The ESFJ is its "antithesis" (Fe Si Ne Ti);

- And eventually, the "synthesis" of both (Te Ni Se Fi) gives us an "artificial"/temporary ENTJ for the very purpose of a specific situation we are facing ?


Any thought ?
When everything 'clicks' in my mind: thoughts, intuitions, details, feelings, I, too, notice that I enter 'God Mode'. Such occasions are rare, but they're a real treat.

-Duxwing
 

DIALECTIC

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#12
When everything 'clicks' in my mind: thoughts, intuitions, details, feelings,
T / N / S / F...

I, too, notice that I enter 'God Mode'. Such occasions are rare, but they're a real treat.
-Duxwing
Those awesome moments are when the inconscious pours/floods into the conscious...
Hence the danger for ego conflation i.e feeling invincible/on top of the world, it's like selling our soul to the devil: the inconscious gives us so much power/momentum/inspiration... But there is a harsh price to pay, a huge energetic debt to repay later, hence the "crash", the depression from the return to dull reality that comes after those moments... The more intense/the longer those moments, the more intense/the longer the depression afterwards.

However, at 39 i now am very careful and i know when to stop, even if the desire to get higher always higher is very hard to resist but i know what comes next and i suffered too much in the past from crazy decisions taken during those mad times of ego conflations... However i still get the knowledge that come from each of those experiences but i don't act upon it anymore ! I isolate myself and enjoy the euphoria of pure bliss/knowingness, nothing beats that feeling, not sex, not money, nothing !!
 

DIALECTIC

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#13
GEORG HEGEL:

"I am thus the relation of these two sides, each is itself totality.

Each of the two extremes is itself “I,” what relates them; and the holding together, the relating is itself this which is at once in conflict with itself, and brings itself to unity in the conflict.

Or, to put it differently, I am the conflict, for the conflict is just this antagonism, which is not any indifference of the two as different, but is their being bound together.

I am not one of those taking part in the strife, but I am both the combatants, and am the strife itself.

I am the fire and the water which touch each other, and am the contact and union of what flies apart, and this very contact itself is this double, essentially conflicting relation, as the relation of what is now separated, severed, and now reconciled and in unity with itself.
"
 

Architect

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#14
I think you all are complicating a simple matter. First I don't buy the JePi/whatever theory. Haven't observed that in real life and it obscures the functional stack that we posses. Your apparent sudden behavior changes aren't unusual, I'm an obvious/strong INTP and I have done it too. I was the head of a 300 member team and ran around as the charismatic leader, and have done it in other circumstances too. This occurred mainly in the 17-42 years, now in my mid 40's the idea is ... repulsive? to me. But back then I was developing my functional stack (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe) and I would get bursts of outward control and charisma.

Ti is actually a strong judging function and during development that can burst outward for some reason. I don't have any theories as to why that is other than observationally seeing it, maybe some kind of 'misfiring' of Ne and Fe with the Ti judging. At any rate as you mature, if you are an INTP (or whatever type you really are) will assert itself and settle in as you fully integrate your inferior and develop 'the stack'.
 
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#15
scorpiomover, I've been also thinking about it. Extraversion/introversion is my main source of confusion here. On the one hand, it seems like there are theories that explain this preference (Introversion is defined as detachment of libido from external objects) but it appears that introverts might be more sensitive to the dopamine from the external stimuli.
"Novelty seekers were found to have a long D4DR gene are less sensitive to the neurotransmitter dopamine. Therefore, they need to experience life’s thrills and chills in order to produce higher levels of dopamine. … [Low novelty seekers have short D4DR genes and are] highly sensitive to dopamine. Because they receive enough dopamine in quiet activities, they don’t needs as much “buzz” in their lives. "
I think it's a classic case of rushing into conclusions because it defines life's thrills as outside activities. It's way oversimplified.
To give you an example:
1) People with ADHD (long D4DR gene) are definitely the novelty seekers. Yet, they're not able to filter the external stimuli, what makes them more sensitive.
2) People with short D4DR gene don't have a problem with executive functions (planning, organization, time management etc). However, there are many introverts that aren't very good at this.
So, it makes sense that there are introverts with long D4DR gene and some of them (some INTPs) find this novelty in the quiet activities.
Also: The present study also reported a positive association between introversion in males and cortisol levels at wakeup, with high I (introvert) males showing increased cortisol at waking, as compared to males with average I. The higher wakeup cortisol levels among high I males may help to explain why CAR (cortisol awakening response) responses are lower for this group, given that cortisol levels at wakeup and the size of the CAR are negatively correlated. "

Perhaps:
INTP - long D4DR gene, and increased cortisol
INTJ - short D4DR gene, increased cortisol
ENTP - long D4DR gene
ENTJ - short D4DR gene

So, I'm assuming that if there's something that provides a constant flow of dopamine and the wakeup cortisol levels are decreased, INTP can behave like an ENTJ. It's not difficult to imagine that it might be a result of some idea INTP is passionate about.
I have adhd so it's watching how my personality changes is fascinating. My 'default' behavior is INTP, but when my anxiety levels are low and I take ritalin, I can behave like an ENTJ. (low stress without ritalin: ENTP, high stress and ritalin: INTJ)
Of course, I'm not saying that every INTP has ADHD, but ADHD is so extreme, it illustrates certain tendencies very well.
 

Toro

Expanding thought
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Oct 8, 2016
Messages
55
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Cornfields
#16
scorpiomover, I've been also thinking about it. Extraversion/introversion is my main source of confusion here. On the one hand, it seems like there are theories that explain this preference (Introversion is defined as detachment of libido from external objects) but it appears that introverts might be more sensitive to the dopamine from the external stimuli.
"Novelty seekers were found to have a long D4DR gene are less sensitive to the neurotransmitter dopamine. Therefore, they need to experience life’s thrills and chills in order to produce higher levels of dopamine. … [Low novelty seekers have short D4DR genes and are] highly sensitive to dopamine. Because they receive enough dopamine in quiet activities, they don’t needs as much “buzz” in their lives. "
I think it's a classic case of rushing into conclusions because it defines life's thrills as outside activities. It's way oversimplified.
To give you an example:
1) People with ADHD (long D4DR gene) are definitely the novelty seekers. Yet, they're not able to filter the external stimuli, what makes them more sensitive.
2) People with short D4DR gene don't have a problem with executive functions (planning, organization, time management etc). However, there are many introverts that aren't very good at this.
So, it makes sense that there are introverts with long D4DR gene and some of them (some INTPs) find this novelty in the quiet activities.
Also: The present study also reported a positive association between introversion in males and cortisol levels at wakeup, with high I (introvert) males showing increased cortisol at waking, as compared to males with average I. The higher wakeup cortisol levels among high I males may help to explain why CAR (cortisol awakening response) responses are lower for this group, given that cortisol levels at wakeup and the size of the CAR are negatively correlated. "

Perhaps:
INTP - long D4DR gene, and increased cortisol
INTJ - short D4DR gene, increased cortisol
ENTP - long D4DR gene
ENTJ - short D4DR gene

So, I'm assuming that if there's something that provides a constant flow of dopamine and the wakeup cortisol levels are decreased, INTP can behave like an ENTJ. It's not difficult to imagine that it might be a result of some idea INTP is passionate about.
I have adhd so it's watching how my personality changes is fascinating. My 'default' behavior is INTP, but when my anxiety levels are low and I take ritalin, I can behave like an ENTJ. (low stress without ritalin: ENTP, high stress and ritalin: INTJ)
Of course, I'm not saying that every INTP has ADHD, but ADHD is so extreme, it illustrates certain tendencies very well.
I hate to bring this up from the dead but I've tested INTP over and over. I identify with the INTP 100% but also the ENTJ. I also have ADHD. It's like my hyper activity forces me to use my thinking function like a ruthless weapon to get through the day. At which point I can shut the world off and just sit and think. But if I need to get something done or I'm given a task by my boss I'll go about it with incredible energy and efficiency.

Never am I actually feeling like I'm comfortable around people. Only a very small group. But I tend to social mask myself as an outgoing person I guess to pair with my energy.

Edit: Also I seem.to use ENTJ to shorten my time with people. I don't like people and I live in a shitty small area full of simple shitty people....I assume most people are simple and I try to avoid them. Naturally they want to talk to me. So I'll use ENTJ to essentially dazzle them with asshole brilliance so they just leave me alone.
At the same time if I see valuable information in them I'll social mask to gather whatever it is I want. I don't do this to close people. I'm a very excitable talkative, insightful person with my small group of close people. They know both sides of me and usually let me lead because I am assertive.
But, like I said im only assertive because it's like I game....I know I'm most likely smarter so I use it to move around the social world like the shortest path from A. To B.
 

baccheion

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
172
#19
INTPs are known to get bursts of energy. When I get bursts of energy, I appear more like a motivated extrovert (ENTP).

Selegiline. Uridine monophosphate (+ triple strength fish oil + alpha-GPC), phenylpiracetam hydrazide, acetyl L-carnitine, beta-alanine, etc.
 
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