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INTP SubTypes

Yellow

for the glory of satan
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#1
I know there are jokish threads discussing subtypes, but seeing as there seems to be little research on the topic, I was wondering if we could hash this out a bit and see if we are observing different varieties of INTPs.

For example: there seem to be plenty of INTPs here who are more emotionally turbulent. This isn't the rule for all INTPs, but there are certainly plenty people who fall into this category.

How much room for variance is there within personality types? At what point must there be additional categories? Could a fluctuation in dominant functions play in here? Or environment? How about psychological health? Intelligence? Age? Gender role?
 

Ombat

but for all I aspire I am really a liar
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#2
I'm wondering how different are the subtypes "allowed" to be?

I'm still fairly uncertain of my type, but INTP does fit best, although I'm very different from many people on this forum.

Perhaps "emotionally turbulent" is correct. The majority here describe themselves as expressing little emotion, and for the most part feeling little emotion. I have so much emotion it scares me. In social situations with people I'm failry comfortable with, I'm bouncing off of the walls with it, almost frantic. I was starting to wonder if this is possible for an INTP.

Anyway, It would be illogical to not have subtypes. MBTI types shouldn't be definitive. 6+ billion people on this Earth...
 

Zero

The Fiend
Joined
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#4
Didn't we already have this discussion? I'm still looking for the original source of the INTP subtypes.

Well, I can't find the original thread about them. Not the one here, it's probably about here somewhere. I've been meaning to put them in one coherent page, but I don't know the origin of them, other than forums.

I found the Thread:
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=4139
 
Last edited:

Cogwulf

Is actually an INTJ
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#5
Out of the 'big five' personality types, the one part which shows no correlation with the four MBTI dichotomies is Neuroticism. This would describe many of the differences between people of the same type

 

sniktawekim

Well-Known Member
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#6
Perhaps "emotionally turbulent" is correct. The majority here describe themselves as expressing little emotion, and for the most part feeling little emotion. I have so much emotion it scares me. In social situations with people I'm failry comfortable with, I'm bouncing off of the walls with it, almost frantic. I was starting to wonder if this is possible for an INTP..
it is more than possible.. its just that intps are Fi (.. i think)
i myself am rather emotional, but my subconscious suppresses these, and they slowly leak into my analysis during night when i am trying to think.
 

SEPKA

What???
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#7
Um... many text describe INTP as having Fe.
But it depend on the researcher, I think only Ti and Ne are on consensus.
 

Agent Intellect

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#8
I would make subtypes based on the development of other functions - in the case of INTP's, Ni, Se, Fi, Te, and maybe Si and Fe. I have a difficult time accepting the idea of the shadow function etc because so many people don't tend to adhere to that paradigm.

I know for me I would say my order is more like Ti, Ne, Si, Ni etc. There are probably a lot of INTP's that have much higher developed Fe and/or Fi, allowing them better emotional intelligence. In my case, I often feel like I have a more developed sensing function (probably introverted sensing) then some of the people here - while I enjoy theory, brainstorming, and abstract thoughts/discussions, I tend to have a very strong sensing-like skepticism that, after all the theorizing and 'Ne' tangents are said and done, brings me back down to earth to really question how valid something is (i'm a stickler for supporting evidence, as some people may have picked up on). And, of course, I have plenty of theories as to why this may have come about.

I guess if I made some further subdivisions, it would be something like (and using INTP as example, even though subdivisions of this type would be applicable to all types):

1. Ti, Ne, sensors (Si or Se) - the more practical INTPs. These are the skeptics, the one's that formulate intricate and complex theories of their own, but ultimately do not endorse them if they don't have any real world support.

Si - quiet creatures of habit. These types might have the hardest time coming out of their shell, generally finding a comfortable niche and staying there - which may add to their seeming procrastination. This type might have strange, almost OCD like rituals done merely for the sentimental value, because having something that feels regular is comforting. These types might have their minds invigorated by doing menial tasks - things that don't require a lot of mental effort, like taking a walk. A lof of the stimuli for their imagination is derived from things they have sensed in the past. May also be good at compartmentalizing, having several modes of operating 'saved' in their memory that can be brought about by recognizing the salient features of an environment.

Se - the experimentalist. These are the 'mad scientist' type of INTP, the one's that will stick a fork into the toaster, knowing full well what will happen, just because they wanted to experience it. They may be the slightly more outgoing INTP, enjoying the experience of life, even other people. While many INTP's seem content to read about an experience in a book, the Se INTP's would rather go out and do it - but still require time to themselves to sort through it. Their theorizing is perhaps derived from the world around them, wanting to see, smell, hear, touch, and taste new things because the external stimuli is what gets their imagination running - which means they may have a much higher appreciation of aesthetics and/or art and nature. They may be very adaptable, able to go with the flow and get the hang of new stimuli - unlike the Si type which may become overly sensitive if too much is going on.

2. Ti, Ne, feelers (Fe or Fi) - the emotionally intelligent INTP's. These are the people more in touch with their emotions, and are more likely able to express this, possibly in an artistic way - poetry, drawing/painting, song writing etc.

Fi - These INTP's have an appreciation of their own emotional side, allowing the Fi to 'warm' their cold logic in some ways. They hold their principles in high regard - even for an INTP - because their principles aren't always just because they sound the most logical (although they do, as a rule!), but because they have an intrinsic value to the INTP in question. This is also an INTP type which may experience some internal conflict, spending a lot of their mental effort trying to create harmony between their emotional side and their logic side. Just like to anyone with Fi, authenticity is important to them. Their imaginations are highly focused on ways they would improve the world - or at least some facets of it. These are the INTP types that might sometimes be mistyped as INFP's.

Fe - similar to the Se type, these INTP's may be more apt to be doers instead of readers. These may be the INTP's with a much higher aesthetic appreciation, enjoying novel external stimuli - including other humans. This may sometimes be the type of INTP with a larger circle of friends and correspondents. Being strong Fe, but still INTP to the core, they spend a lot of time thinking about the interactions of humans and their personal relationships (as opposed to cold mathematics or physics), coming up with theories about the motivations of other people. Fe INTP's are could often be the ones that are the most interested in personality type theory (along with other social sciences) because they are interested in how other people think and function.


3. Ti, Ne, thinkers (Te) - these might seem like the OCD type of INTP's to some. Like all INTP's, they create complex inner models of the world, but unlike most other INTP's, they also tend to project those internal models onto the external world. These would be the INTP's most likely to enjoy systems, perhaps becoming computer scientists, engineers, arcitects, or even doctors/surgeons. They may get enjoyment from solving complex puzzles, or playing chess or other games heavy on strategy. These are the INTP's that have very strong logic and reasoning skills, focusing on things in a very rational, often times cold and calculating way. Immature Te INTP's might be very stubborn or even closed minded and stand-offish. These are the type of INTP that may often be mistyped as INTJ, having much in common with them (perhaps this type is even where the distinction blurs into INTJ, rather then having a definite distinction between the two).


4. Ti, Ne, intuitives (Ni) - the archetype of the absent minded professor. Theory and abstract thought defines their lives. An immature Ni INTP might have a tendency towards fantastical thinking with no basis in reality, or even paranoia, their theories and internal worlds becoming more real to them then the real world. More highly developed ones are able to make sense of the world (and the cosmos) with ease. Abstract thought comes easy to them, and the pieces of a complex system seem to just fall into place for them with little effort. Insights may just come out of nowhere, their theorizing needing little to no stimuli to shoot off on multiple tangents. Because they live so much of their lives in their head - even for an INTP - they may come off as being very aloof and/or absent minded. Contrary to this look of aloofness, they are probably one of the most open minded types of INTP's, enjoying new ideas just for the exploration. I would say Einstein was probably an Ni INTP.




Anyone can feel free to add to these, criticize them, or change them around however they wish, I just threw them together right now, so I don't really have any personal attachment to them.


The problem is, even dividing a type further, based on the development of other functions, seems as if it could be divided even further. I'm sure people have also had a lot of influence based on upbringing (perhaps even birth order), the books they've read and TV shows they grew up on, the friends they have/had, the cultural, religious, and political atmosphere they grew up in so on and so on.
 

Jennywocky

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#9
The problem is, even dividing a type further, based on the development of other functions, seems as if it could be divided even further. I'm sure people have also had a lot of influence based on upbringing (perhaps even birth order), the books they've read and TV shows they grew up on, the friends they have/had, the cultural, religious, and political atmosphere they grew up in so on and so on.
nice basic descriptions, although it's hard to know how many fall squarely into each category or if more complex categories are necessary.

I think your point above is extremely important -- life is so complex, with such a variety of genetic origination points (for basic temperament) coupled with environment influences (cultural, physical world, family, schooling, etc.) that it's very hard to tease out what is raw type and what is imposed.

As far as your traits go, I identify with the feeler subtype the best (starting with Fe, but developing inward in the last number of years)... basically instead of being bent towards accomplishing external tasks, I've always been fascinated by the complexity with people and want to understand them, so all of that Ti+Ne has gone towards discovering who people are and how they work. (I can't tell whether that desire to focus my thinking on people is natural or if it derived from or was exacerbated by an emotionally needy and dangerous childhood where I had to be hypervigilant and understand people from a distance because otherwise I might have gotten badly hurt.)

The other aspect, though, is that I interacted the most through my N, not my T (except in writing usually) -- I like to create models that have a place for everything and are all-encompassing, rather than presenting a solid but non-inclusive logic argument. Possibilities have to be considered.
 

Trebuchet

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#10
Could age have anything to do with it? When I was in high school, I was definitely INTP, but I tended to melodrama, idealism, manipulating people around me, and believing I had the one true answer. I had few friends, no dates, and no idea when to shut up. Emotionally unstable is a good description. (This is in NO WAY meant to be a description of anyone else; it is for contrast with my later self only.)

Now I am 41, still have few friends but they are dearer than ever, and I have found more efficient ways to get my points across, choose my fights, and put things in perspective. I'm not a paragon of stability or anything, but most people think of me as calm and patient. I am pretty happy, though I no longer think I have the answer to everything.

To all appearances, I have changed subtypes, but it seems to me I have merely learned more with age and changed with my circumstances.

Age is only one factor that can affect people. I would imagine that living in a sparse or densely populated area would matter. Being in a place that hates or accepts geekiness, or having parents who are INTPs would affect self-esteem. If there are different subtypes, couldn't they be explained by the natural differences between people and their environments?
 

Agent Intellect

Absurd Anti-hero.
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#11
As far as the quick sub-types I came up with, I hate to think of them as being too distinct or quantized, but that each of them would have a spectrum and possibly even their own subtype (which would increase the complexity of a type by several orders of magnitude).

Someones specific type would be very complex and dynamic. The spectrum of a certain function would fluctuate in how it is projected (perhaps one could make a probability equation for it :borg:), and is able develop and mature as time goes on (and possibly even regress, due to traumatic experiences etc).

And, of course, a sub-function would work within the framework of one's main type - the Se of an Se INTP would function differently then in an Se INFP etc.

And thus is the difficulty of creating subtypes; there are far too many contingencies and variables one has to take into account to lose the simple linearity of the normal 'Ti, Ne, Se, Fe' type theory - so like Newtons law of gravity, it's generally a fairly sufficient approximation (but isn't nearly as fun as coming up with our own theories and subtypes).
 

Zero

The Fiend
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#12
.... Did anyone look at the link?
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=4139
Of all the subtyping I've seen I think this makes the most coherent sense and direct connection to the formed MBTI types. If I were to go outside the Jung types I would say Strengths Finder (s?) is a good subtyping system. However, the system is not readily available, seeing as you have to pay for the serves. (Technically you have to pay for the official MBTI, but still. It's very available).

(I personally think the Enneagram is crap and don't care for the Big5)

My T is definitely one of my stronger traits. After that, it kind of shifts around. My I isn't terribly strong through

Anyway, you don't subtype according to whatever function is strengthened, that changes with age.
 

Yellow

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#13
Out of the 'big five' personality types, the one part which shows no correlation with the four MBTI dichotomies is Neuroticism. This would describe many of the differences between people of the same type
This is interesting.. I have noticed that this is where INTPs differ the most. On these tests, some of us end up between 0-5% on neuroticism when many INTPs are near 100%.

I would make subtypes based on the development of other functions - in the case of INTP's, Ni, Se, Fi, Te, and maybe Si and Fe. I have a difficult time accepting the idea of the shadow function etc because so many people don't tend to adhere to that paradigm....

...I know for me I would say my order is more like Ti, Ne, Si, Ni etc. There are probably a lot of INTP's that have much higher developed Fe and/or Fi, allowing them better emotional intelligence.
While I have always thought this was me as well. I have been repeatedly told that it is supposed to be impossible... but wonder why, exactly.

..To all appearances, I have changed subtypes, but it seems to me I have merely learned more with age and changed with my circumstances.
Age is only one factor that can affect people...
Is it possible that subtypes could be a difference in the development of dominant functions? Like, some people have a more or less mature Si or Fe?

Maybe we are all INTP because we have the same personality potential [not sure if thats the right word] but we have developed in different ways.. does this negate the need for subcatagories, or would the search continue?

.... Did anyone look at the link?
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=4139
Of all the subtyping I've seen I think this makes the most coherent sense and direct connection to the formed MBTI types...

Anyway, you don't subtype according to whatever function is strengthened, that changes with age.
I have seen that thread, I think I even participated, but it seemed a wee bit arbitrary, but for only one reason: the strength of the letters, a 95% versus a 100% versus a 89%, etc... it seems that a test, any test, may not be able to guarantee a perfect percentage accuracy, and a person may qualify for 8/16 subtypes described there.

And again, if we are maturing at various rates and in various diretions, would this invalidate any subtypes, or could they still be applicable?
 

Aiss

int p;
Joined
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#14
.... Did anyone look at the link?
http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=4139
Of all the subtyping I've seen I think this makes the most coherent sense and direct connection to the formed MBTI types. If I were to go outside the Jung types I would say Strengths Finder (s?) is a good subtyping system. However, the system is not readily available, seeing as you have to pay for the serves. (Technically you have to pay for the official MBTI, but still. It's very available).

(...)

Anyway, you don't subtype according to whatever function is strengthened, that changes with age.
The percentages given in tests refer to the certainty, not to the "strength" of the trait. If you accept functions as part of MBTI, traits are no longer continuous. If you did consider them so: what would weak N, weak I and strong T imply? Strong Ne (because of I), weak Ne (because of N), strong Fe (because of I), weak Fe (because of T)?

Even if we disregard this, the fact that most of the people in the other thread didn't identify with "their" subtype shows the approach doesn't work. The functional one is probably changing with age, as you said. I suppose there's a reason for no acknowledged subtypes - differences on this level may be too individual, as well as age and environment related.

To tell the truth, reading subtypes based on shadow functions earlier in this thread I thought it wasn't a likely theory... until I got to Te/Ne/Ni variation, which - minus the genius part of course - is me, with some scepticism thrown in (I always though of scecpticism as Ti thing BTW). It would also give some credence to functions tests which show either Ni = Si, or Ni > Si. So I guess it's a good sign for the theory.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
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#18
yeah, I've seen this on a few sites, I'm this:

N-type
"The speculator"

NPIT-"the niche maker"
This type tends to create systems starting from a specific example, creating the framework to fit the criteria of the intuition-object. They want to find a place for everything, and a frame big enough for everyone.
zero said:
Of all the subtyping I've seen I think this makes the most coherent sense and direct connection to the formed MBTI types.
For being as short and sort of formulaic, I think it did a good job describing theoretical nuances in type by examining in the influence of the four main binary pairs on the type itself.

But it's more a "hey, I recognize myself there" rather than anything definitive on its own.

Anyway, you don't subtype according to whatever function is strengthened, that changes with age.
Not necessarily, even. Age is only an indicator because generally age = life experience = positive changes. There are many who are old but either are in a closed stultifying environment or else respond to changes negatively and thus get either worse or more rigid, not better.
 

Enne

Consistently Inconsistent
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#19
Psst! whats 4chan?
4chan is the American equivalent of 2chan, it's Japanese sister site (or rather, the Japanese mother that abandoned it out of shock and shame). It's basically a troll's paradise, populated by the uninformed and the obscene. People post images instead of actual discussions or w/e (to the best of my knowledge), and trolling / effed up stuff abounds.
 

Zero

The Fiend
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#20
Weakest trait does not equal weak to. Get what I'm saying? INTP; but my I is weakest, it's not an E, because I still test negative for E. My I is still stronger than E, but my T is stronger than I. And my N and P are stronger than I, but not usually stronger than T.
T>F AND T>NIP(SFJ)
N>S AND N> I, N>/=P
P>J AND P> I , P>/=N
I>E

The core personality doesn't change, but people do develop their functions. That is to be understand as they develop their functions from the original base, but functions themselves are dynamic. The basic type remains, you don't suddenly become an Fe if you develop your Fe through INTP functions. It still develops as an inferior to the original. In other words, in stressful we'd supposedly "default" to INTP of some kind. In extremely stressful conditions we might mimic our opposite type or shadow I guess. But in sort of neutral to negative conditions I would resort to being more INTP. When I get tired, I get really quiet and I do thing only for a given, reasonable purpose.

I think I can relate to all of the supposed subtypes that I linked. However, I tend to have tendencies towards certain ones. I'm fairly consistent in having a strong T. Even in the Function analysis, my T appears strong.

TPNI- I do like to debate, I get tired eventually though and fed up. So... to an extent. Unless I consider what I learn a good reason to change my mind, which it always could be, I won't and I'll stick to it until something valid to think over comes along.

TPIN
I am a visual person, I knew that at seven, when they couldn't figure out why I wasn't learning in a conventional manner. I'm an entirely visual leaner, to the point that it can be problematic. I don't know that this is literally the idea of "visual simulation".

TINP
I do like systems, I don't necessarily try to bring them down. If a system doesn't work for me I won't bother with it. It'll be dismissed. I only use systems I can use and that I can customize. It's not a matter of "bringing it down" for me, it's a matter of practicality.

TIPN
This does come up as an overly critical side. I've been trying to get rid of it more and more.

TNPI
I could imagine myself being this sort, because I do Replace systems and modify them. I think this is similar enough to the TINP that the combination or interaction of the two wouldn't be surprising.

TNIP
Sometimes my N sabotages me, but I don't like to dwell on paradox. I like irony, but not running in completely circles. At some point it's do or die. I might be a little decisive in some ways for a P type.

P or N is my second strongest, so I think the likelihood of jumping from TNIP to TIPN is overshadowed by jumping to N or P dominant.

Collecting has a relative in my SF profile. For that I know that PTIN is a part of my personality. But say I take my Top Five SFs and I can match them with one of these INTP mixes.

I wish I was a PITN, I'm try. It does not happen. I have one or two major identities with several alternates for given situations, which would make those personas, as I know they aren't my actual identity. So, I think I'm consistent with an identity such as... INTP in general.

PNIT does take off with me sometimes. PNTI kind of confuses me. I want a working system, is that the same? PTNI, yeah it happens sometimes, I have to think one thing for a long time though. I do make conclusion eventually and make principles out of them. NPIT, I do use it, I like to have a framework already in place and work on it. Therefore, that could be a mix between this idea and the system destroyers. NPTI is more like me I guess, in that I try to use a system, not necessarily the "dominant" one, but the one I can work. NITP, I don't need people to agree with me. I just need them to understand I won't necessarily agree with them or see eye to eye. And, yeah, I like to argue, sometimes it uncovers ideas I want. NITP, I do adhere to systems over a long period of time and develop them as my understanding comes along. I like having similar things to relate back to, but if another system can, in my understanding, directly connect , that validates the system I'm using. If ultimately it's too hard to connect I drop the system. NTIP... winning. I guess I like to win, but sometimes that's failing too. Because you don't gain much either way. If I win something, sure, I'd be proud and I dislike losing for no reason.


For the Is...I can meditate and I don't mind doing it. It does help me sometimes. The I types are kind of scary. If they weren't so overwhelmed they'd work better...

I would say there's a degree to each "subtype" I can relate to. But even a number of three would be normal, in my mind. I would guess at least one trait dominates the others and maybe one subtype dominates the other subtypes. I can work that frame with SF.

Like I already mentioned, I don't necessarily need people to agree with me. So, if this system is completely senseless or terribly flawed to you, well that's fine. But I make use of it.

Everything I do in systems is to make it work for myself. If it doesn't work for other people... why should I care? That seem unsound, to force people to think like you (and totally nuts). I Do like to debate, but that's for my desire to collect and input ideas. If everyone thought like me there'd be nothing left to find. But if what I find I've found before I discard it. I didn't use it before, is there a Really good reason to use it now?
 

green acid

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#21
Sometimes these subtypes can seem dead on,even if they are just presented as speculation. When I first found out I was INTP, the personality theory seemed to state that I always was, and always will be INTP. That this typing might as well be stamped on my head. On the other extreme, I've heard it often that there is only one me, which devaluates dividing people into two (or more) types. Different types of people is a fact, there's plenty of data to support this. Pertaining to MBTI, since there's eight functions we all use, there is a lot of room for variance within INTP. Instead of exclusive use of thinking and intuition, other tendencies crop up, like playing sports, liking to party,or reading the poetry of Sylvia Plath, or loving animals etc. etc. Dividing one type into 24 or however many subtypes actually seems to add clarity, though when I first saw it, I thought it would just create confusion.
 
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