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INTP Perceptions of ISTP and Relations of Benefit

Ex-User (13503)

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#1
*Edit: Bleh.

I screwed up. So I guess this topic shall become a combination of your perceptions of ISTPs as well as your experiences in relations of benefit, which for the record would be with ISTJs vs ISTPs.

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What are your interactions with ISTPs like? Do you view them differently than others? I'd like to hear about both casual and close relations.

Socionics classifies the relationship between these two types as a relation of benefit, or "relation of social request." This relationship is characterized by a certain disproportionate awareness in communication: The benefactor, in this case the INTP, notices every signal the beneficiary puts out, and conversely, the ISTP beneficiary just doesn't pick up on the signals put out by the benefactor. Often, this isn't because the beneficiary doesn't care, it's just that they're blind in that way.

This results in the INTP benefactor investing disproportionate effort into the ISTP beneficiary, which usually isn't reciprocated, leaving the benefactor with unmet needs.

Read more about it here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/82-Benefit-relations

I'm curious about this because as an INFJ, I'm in the benefactor position in my interactions with INTPs. I'd like to compare perspectives and look for similarities. I expect the communication gap to be more obvious with closer relations than casual.
 

Ex-User (8886)

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#2
relation of benefit
nope, it's kindred
What are your interactions with ISTPs like
I like them, have many friends of that type, usually I think they're limited and they think I'm weird.
I'm curious about this because as an INFJ, I'm in the benefactor position in my interactions with INTPs. I'd like to compare perspectives and look for similarities. I expect the communication gap to be more obvious with closer relations than casual.
You ask about relationships with ISTJs then.
I need to engage every time, they will never write to me or phone me. It's similar with my INFJ sister, who always call me and I never call her. [or maybe not never, let's say in most cases, because 'never' is big word]. I think they like me, because there's not so many people that talk to them and are able to accept them as they are (ISTJs are the most antisocial type). In college I know 2 ISTJs and they're my closest friends (well, one girl I don't want to be my friend xD; the relationship is too complicated anyway), with the other guy we do everything together. It's rewarding relationship but requires a lot of effort from me, because I need to lead, I need to plan, I need to call etc... They don't have much initiative. If I don't call him to work on a project he say later that he waited for me to call him, he was ready all the time to meet. It's also difficult, because sometimes they (especially the girl) don't answer calls or don't react anyway to my messages and what I need to do is write more of them. I was very frustrated at the beginning when I didn't know them, but I got used to it. They're also not very talkative, so I need do more of the talking. Besides their difficulties they're great because of their sense of humor, directness, sincerity, they help me focus on getting stuff done (because when I start learning I usually begin learning something totally different than is required at exam xD - so I value their sense of practicality ). They're also very loyal and what I mean saying that is they don't spend much time with other people than me :D The most difficult part is they're extremely lazy and my Ne is usually too weak to activate them or when I finally do it, I'm a little tired.
 

Ex-User (13503)

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#3
In socionics, the J and P are switched for INxxs and ISxxs. So you might be right. Sorry.

*Edit: Yep, I screwed up. Thanks for letting me know.
 

Pizzabeak

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#4
I was also going to point that out. Will post more about it later when I thought it more through, I assumed you knew and also meant it just still passes as an idea, just switch the types to make it work instead then.
 

Gyppo

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#5
This seems an intriguing phenomenon. My relations with INTPs, supposedly the beneficiaries, don't take the form described by Manipulator. Unless I just haven't noticed. My dad, IXTJ/IXFP:applause:, and brother, ENTP, reach out to me much more than I do them, and I reach out to all of my friends more than they to me.
I guess some INTP(ish, though probably not) people may sort of see me as mystical and a bit of a genius.
 

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#6
I can identify with Manipulator's explanation of who makes all the contact. And the frustration, Oh, the frustration. :D
Manipulator said:
I like them, have many friends of that type, usually I think they're limited and they think I'm weird.
In what ways do you think they're limited, and what do they think is weird about you?
This seems an intriguing phenomenon. My relations with INTPs, supposedly the beneficiaries, don't take the form described by Manipulator. Unless I just haven't noticed. My dad, IXTJ/IXFP:applause:, and brother, ENTP, reach out to me much more than I do them, and I reach out to all of my friends more than they to me.
I guess some INTP(ish, though probably not) people may sort of see me as mystical and a bit of a genius.
In your specific circumstances, I wouldn't consider benefit dynamics to manifest as clearly between individuals who are still developing. A lot of my own frustration, for example, is because of a lack of Fe reciprocation, and a lack of demonstration (Se) of understanding. Apparently the auxillary function doesn't really develop until one's early 20s, iirc, so theoretically your ability to detect it would be hindered.
 

Pizzabeak

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#7
So this means with ISTJ. And INTP is actually INTJ. So it's the same with another way of looking at it, not ISTP, implying T is J and Si P. So it also has to do with intro/extraversion.

It's just like INTJ except with S so Si-Ne. It's not like with ISTP, you have to look at it now (considering the addition of this new theory, so you better just read it all, now, to get up to speed), which says it beckons a relationship with introverted perception instead of Se/Ne. But the other main point is Fi. The only ideal thing about Si/Ne is its relation to the past. Ni is just idealism, with potential, and all of those similar types just expect the best. It's like milk, if you can't handle dairy you have to go with almond or soy alternatives, although you totally lose out of any benefits actual cow's milk has, and other uses too.

The relationship'll always suck, you may as well be a meth freak addict if you need to do anything, or unfortunately just use caffeine and be doped up on coffee/tea all the time. Then with that, the biggest one is Te vs Ti. At first they think there's only one T then or it must be something else. The simplest way is to look at it where it seems people try to make their type and functions the best as if it were "in house" or season/age of the current Zodiac it is.

So the E type always seems like it's the best for its applied uses. People have a tradition of being storytellers. And this is known already, but what they do is know and define concepts for you. So you have to have a use. ENFP are like machines who like work, which is weird, but explainable as lead Ne which is "creative", so it needs an outlet for expression, Fi is Te, so they use it and like tools. They all only just think about like people stuff and try to manage through it. So they could seem like ENTJs sometimes, but are just more than average intelligent ENFP, mostly the female ones.

It was better before I realized that. Ignorance isn't bliss. And none of it is written in stone. The "dominant" function is supposed to be the first tool used since birth when you turn into a kid, that topic is supposedly controversial, the auxiliary could be used unless it's actually the dominant that seems like that then there could be more to it. Can't promise much, there's no official database that has it all objectively there, all the systems are good, except they just copy each other and are the same basically, there's like no differences, just priorities. The time you were born is important too so it's put into context and expectations for them. They think stupid means too slow.
 

Ex-User (8886)

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#8
My relations with INTPs, supposedly the beneficiaries, don't take the form described by Manipulator. Unless I just haven't noticed.
first thing, are you istj? in mbti sense
you can't know what others think (unless you're some kind of mystical spirit walker INFP)
In what ways do you think they're limited, and what do they think is weird about you?
notice that it was about ISTPs (Ti-Se). they're usually ignoring my ideas and plans thinking of it like some abstract not existing matter than was made up be me, while my ideas are serious and can be created or executed irl, but they're probably lack imagination to understand it. They think I'm weird because I usually don't care about stuff they do, like image, social norms, so I'm highly unexpected to them and they don't understand me fully (still, they can really good understand my feelings towards people, my isolation from time to time and awkwardness in some social matters)
So this means with ISTJ. And INTP is actually INTJ. So it's the same with another way of looking at it, not ISTP, implying T is J and Si P. So it also has to do with intro/extraversion.
I actually got lost. I propose to everyone when talking about socionics to use 3 letter types, it's not confusing and it's shorter. It's quite easy to learn
dominant function letter (for INTP - L, from logic)
aux function letter (I like intuition)
introversion/extroversion (I like introversion)
so it's LII. ISTJ would be SLI, ISTP - LSI, ESFJ - ESE (E like ethics, sensing, extrovert).
 
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#10
I like them, have many friends of that type, usually I think they're limited and they think I'm weird.
Same here. I like them, but sometimes I get the annoyed look and get told I'm weird. I really like that they are predictable and socially harmonious.
 
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