INTP male/female ratio

[Lithorn]

So I've read that there are more male INTPs than female INTPs.
Is this:
true?
false?
unsubstantiated?
Are there any theories about it?

 

[Adymus]

Might be true, might be false.

I have absolutely no trust current in MBTI statistics. The test itself is only like %60 to %70 accurate, then add that to the margin of error based on sample sizes and locations, and you got yourself a pretty poor representation of type diversity.

 

[Jennywocky]

There is a gender bias of T towards male and F towards female, so yes, rationally, there would presumably be more INTP males than INTP females.

As far as sites go, there are a lot more INTP males at INTPcentral than females. Maybe even a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 or more.

 

[Irishpenguin]

This seemed to be the general thought that there was more male INTP's than there were female when I first joined this forum. But the more I hung around the more I realized how pretty much dead even it is regarding gender on this site. Although this is just a forum so it's not very.....reliable? No, I'm pretty sure that Scientists use another word other than "reliable" but whatever.

In any case, this place is awesome

(.....why does that always happen......*sigh)

 

[Trebuchet]

Yes, scientists use the word "reliable."

I don't have any idea what the actual ratio is of M:F. As an INTP female, I have been told my whole life, always by other personality types, that my interests and style are not feminine. In high school, I was informed by other girls that I was too analytical, brainy, into electronics and science and math, too geeky, to ever attract boys. They urged me to drop electronics lab because "that's for boys." I don't know what they took instead.

In college and most of my jobs, I have been the only female or in a small minority, and there were other INTPs there. It seems the perception in US culture is that INTP is wrong for a female. (Any females INTPs with a different story - please share it with me!)

My guess is that a lot of INTP females go underground, trying to live life as a personality type they aren't really. But I don't have any data to back that up.

 

[echoplex]

I think female INTPs will feel more pressure, and feel it earlier, to develop their Fe to be on par with their female peers and to appear not as "weird" to others. This could make mistyping more likely, so that they might instead type as an xNFJ or even xSFJ, despite being INTP. In the same way, I'm sure plenty of male INFPs mistype as INTP, xNTJ, xSTJ, etc..

Personally, I'm not convinced that when you filter out mistyping, that there is even a significant T-F bias toward gender. I just think that T females will tend to develop their F function quicker, and likewise, F males will tend to develop their T function quicker. I think that both conditioning and nature make that so, but I'm not sure that same nature makes the T-F bias reflect reality. It probably just means that people whose functions aren't "right" for their gender actually have an advantage regarding tertiary/inferior function development, because they'll tend to have more external and internal pressure to develop them.

So yeah, perhaps it's the T males and F females that are "doomed", because they will be more likely to ignore their weaker function under the impression they don't really need to develop it much.

As far as sites go, there are a lot more INTP males at INTPcentral than females. Maybe even a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 or more.

Yes, but there are probably many more males on forums anyway, for reasons I won't even get into, lol.

 

[GarmGarf]

I would say that there are more INTP males than INTP females because (I would say that) there are more T males than T females. I believe this is due to the way children are stereotypically raised.

Basically, if the effects described by the poster above me exist and happen after someone's MBTI is determined (by life), then surely these effects happen while someone is still developing their MBTI as well, and thus these effects are inclined to shape what the actual MBTI turns out to be.

 

[Lithorn]

As an INTP female, I have been told my whole life, always by other personality types, that my interests and style are not feminine. In high school, I was informed by other girls that I was too analytical, brainy, into electronics and science and math, too geeky, to ever attract boys. They urged me to drop electronics lab because "that's for boys." I don't know what they took instead.

In college and most of my jobs, I have been the only female or in a small minority, and there were other INTPs there. It seems the perception in US culture is that INTP is wrong for a female. (Any females INTPs with a different story - please share it with me!)

Wow. Story of my life.

 

[aracaris]

Yes, scientists use the word "reliable."

As an INTP female, I have been told my whole life, always by other personality types, that my interests and style are not feminine.

Yep me too, and I've come to actually pride myself on going against the grain in this respect, and on many other things.


I've not really even bothered faking being more feminine, but I play at being an extrovert a lot in the work place specifically.


EDIT: had to correct a few typos.

Personally I've found being an introvert to be much more difficult to get away with than being a female that's considered unfeminine, in fact I think it's becoming more and more common to see going against gender norms as a positive trait, these days, at least in women anyhow. One could say "well women are expected to not be introverts, so that's just part of people having a problem with you not being particularly feminine", and that's probably a part of it, but I think a rather minor part of it, as I've seen introverts being given a hard time for being introverts regardless of gender way too often.

Anyone else find this to be the case?

 

[Jennywocky]

This seemed to be the general thought that there was more male INTP's than there were female when I first joined this forum. But the more I hung around the more I realized how pretty much dead even it is regarding gender on this site. Although this is just a forum so it's not very.....reliable? No, I'm pretty sure that Scientists use another word other than "reliable" but whatever.

This site, the gender balance is fare more equal in terms of INTPs than I have ever seen or experienced at any other site, honestly.

I think it's because this site is typically more "feminine." It's gentler and far more nurturing and seems to take care with not being intrusive or hurting people's feelings. It's no wonder that the percentage of female INTPs here is higher than what seems to be average.

I am not sure whether it's the female presence that makes it more nurturing or whether it was more nurturing to begin with, though.

Yes, but there are probably many more males on forums anyway, for reasons I won't even get into, lol.

Well, I actually was already taking that into consideration when making my points.

Women seem to make "little safe pockets" on the 'net in general, and hang out there. A lot of the guys are scrappier and more freeform/floaty, regardless of type.

We started a woman's INTP club over on TypologyCentral. It took a long time before we could even start one, due to lack of members; some of the members are INTJ women or other NT types; and only a few people participate. Just to get 20 INTP female members in a site with 4000 total members and probably 400-700 active members was near impossible; some aren't INTPs and most don't even show up often.

That is not the case with INTP guys. There are far more roaming around that site and esp on INTPCentral, from which our site was seeded back in 2007.

 

[Trebuchet]

Yep me too, and I've come to actually pride myself on going against the grain in this respect, and on many other things.

I've not really even bothered faking being more feminine, but I play at being an extrovert a lot in the work place specifically.

I ignored the girls who told me to be more feminine. I didn't see where their opinion on the subject mattered, and I still don't. If I put on a dress and nice shoes, people think I'm feminine. If I start talking about the difference between causation and correlation (which I am prone to do), they think I am unfeminine. That tells me feminine is all about looks, which can be faked. Smarts are unfeminine.

My husband (INTJ) tells me that there is a similar dichotomy for guys, of "jock" vs. "brain." Jocks are masculine, brains are unmasculine. Remember I live in the US and this might not even make sense in other countries. But here, at least, smarts are bad for everyone's social life.

...I've seen introverts being given a hard time for being introverts regardless of gender way too often.

Anyone else find this to be the case?

Oh yes. Introverts are not respected. Maybe we seem too secretive to the extraverts? I agree that in the workplace especially, being an introvert is much more of a problem than being "geeky." On the other hand, I was once ordered by my boss not to reveal that I had a physics degree, since I was teaching software skills at the time and not supposed to be a "technical" person.

 

[truthseeker72]

Being "T' may be a "masculine" trait, but introversion, imo, certainly isn't. Think of the protoypical "alpha" male-does he ponder at length before making decisions? Does he quietly assess a situation before jumping in? Does he think or does he take action? I speak from the experience of having been lectured from various male authority figures in my life to be a "doer", not a thinker.

 

[Dormouse]

I wish I was an extrovert. Life would be easier.

 

[Lithorn]

Being "T' may be a "masculine" trait, but introversion, imo, certainly isn't. Think of the protoypical "alpha" male-does he ponder at length before making decisions? Does he quietly assess a situation before jumping in? Does he think or does he take action? I speak from the experience of having been lectured from various male authority figures in my life to be a "doer", not a thinker.

It seems to me that gender doesn't matter so much when you're just talking about introversion vs. extroversion. Whether you're male or female, introversion is frowned upon. The "alpha-male" "doer" type has its female counterpart: the "social butterfly".

 

[Ermine]

In college and most of my jobs, I have been the only female or in a small minority, and there were other INTPs there. It seems the perception in US culture is that INTP is wrong for a female. (Any females INTPs with a different story - please share it with me!)

My guess is that a lot of INTP females go underground, trying to live life as a personality type they aren't really. But I don't have any data to back that up.

I haven't really had that experience, at least not yet. Generally speaking, I can go on with my life without having to deal with too many people that think the INTP personality is "wrong". And I didn't want to deal with those people anyway. But I guess it's only a matter of time before I have a boss or some other person I can't easily escape with that attitude. But currently, I'd go as far as saying most people I know like me and my personality. It's really a matter of letting them get to know me. I often have issues opening up to people and the extroverts out there can misjudge this as me being secretive or even proactively mean to them. My lack of things to say also makes me appear more smart or intimidating than I actually am, so there are definitely setbacks. But once people get to know me, they don't think that my INTPness is wrong, just different.

Along this train of thought, no personality in any given culture or gender is "wrong". I think it's a matter of finding the right niche. Generally speaking, my Ti doesn't have many venues where it can function to its fullest. Ti is not generally welcome in emotionally charged situations, but when I tried doing debate in high school, my Ti was not only welcome, but embraced.

Personally I've found being an introvert to be much more difficult to get away with than being a female that's considered unfeminine, in fact I think it's becoming more and more common to see going against gender norms as a positive trait, these days, at least in women anyhow. One could say "well women are expected to not be introverts, so that's just part of people having a problem with you not being particularly feminine", and that's probably a part of it, but I think a rather minor part of it, as I've seen introverts being given a hard time for being introverts regardless of gender way too often.

Anyone else find this to be the case?

I agree. It seems it's OK to be an "unfeminine" female so long as you're extroverted. I find it surprising that even though extroverts like to obtain information from people, they generally just give up on introverts, assuming that they will never open up. Maybe it's simply because I'm an introvert, but I really don't get why extroverts take other people's introversion seriously. But I guess there are many things that are overlooked when extroverts don't take the time to listen.

But I still think that people have more issues with introverted females than introverted males. At least the males have the "strong and silent" archetype, which is somewhat positive. Females only have the label of "shy" which is always negative.

I ignored the girls who told me to be more feminine. I didn't see where their opinion on the subject mattered, and I still don't. If I put on a dress and nice shoes, people think I'm feminine. If I start talking about the difference between causation and correlation (which I am prone to do), they think I am unfeminine. That tells me feminine is all about looks, which can be faked. Smarts are unfeminine.

Oh yes. Introverts are not respected. Maybe we seem too secretive to the extraverts? I agree that in the workplace especially, being an introvert is much more of a problem than being "geeky." On the other hand, I was once ordered by my boss not to reveal that I had a physics degree, since I was teaching software skills at the time and not supposed to be a "technical" person.

That always annoyed me. While I like nice dresses and shoes, it really bothers me how girls only tell me I'm feminine/pretty when I'm wearing a dress or a well coordinated outfit. Nothing has changed but my clothes, yet I'm only feminine when I'm wearing a dress?! The same mind is in there 24/7. They'll appreciate my mind when I'm wearing a dress or girly outfit, but they are just weirded out when I "use my brain" in any other setting. I wonder if I could overcome this contradiction by always wearing pretty clothes and "using my brain" at the same time...

And I don't know if this is exactly what your boss said, but what the heck? Software and any skills needed to run it are technical by nature, so what's wrong with a physics degree?

This site, the gender balance is fare more equal in terms of INTPs than I have ever seen or experienced at any other site, honestly.

I think it's because this site is typically more "feminine." It's gentler and far more nurturing and seems to take care with not being intrusive or hurting people's feelings. It's no wonder that the percentage of female INTPs here is higher than what seems to be average.

I am not sure whether it's the female presence that makes it more nurturing or whether it was more nurturing to begin with, though.

I don't think it's female presence that makes this forum nurturing. There's a sizable portion of both nurturing males and females here. In contrast, INTPCentral seems to be composed of mostly non-nurturing males.

 

[Cavallier]

I ignored the girls who told me to be more feminine. I didn't see where their opinion on the subject mattered, and I still don't. If I put on a dress and nice shoes, people think I'm feminine. If I start talking about the difference between causation and correlation (which I am prone to do), they think I am unfeminine. That tells me feminine is all about looks, which can be faked. Smarts are unfeminine.

Femininity can be faked through appearance which has been one of the great discoveries of my life. I've never seen myself as particularly masculine or feminine but a nice balance of the two. However, in junior and high school I got a lot of crap about not being feminine enough. A lot of kids at that age seem to feel a strong need to pigeon hole people. I didn't fit into any convenient holes. So I added a few feminine details to my look. It made a difference but it has taken time to discover a nice balance between appearing feminine enough to not get funny looks and not looking so feminine that people mistake me for a girl instead of an intelligent introspective adult.

That always annoyed me. While I like nice dresses and shoes, it really bothers me how girls only tell me I'm feminine/pretty when I'm wearing a dress or a well coordinated outfit. Nothing has changed but my clothes, yet I'm only feminine when I'm wearing a dress?! The same mind is in there 24/7. They'll appreciate my mind when I'm wearing a dress or girly outfit, but they are just weirded out when I "use my brain" in any other setting. I wonder if I could overcome this contradiction by always wearing pretty clothes and "using my brain" at the same time...

People's brains would explode?

I gave up that fight a long time ago. Though I agree it's irritating that as a functioning girl who comfortably identifies herself as female her femininity is based on her outfit. *sigh*

Wearing a skirt and "cute" top with matching shoes does provide a somewhat mind bending contrast to being physically aggressive I've noticed. If I wear "pretty little outfit" to work and then have to be particularly nasty to a customer it always throws them for a loop.

For example: I had a customer harassing one of my co-workers and I was attempting to explain to the guy why we couldn't give him a discount he wanted. (Usual INTP trying to explain instead of being direct. *sigh*) The guy cut me off mid explanation and shouted in my face "IT'S A YES OR NOW QUESTION! JUST ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!". I had on a skirt at the time and a nice shirt because I had an interview later on that day. I crossed my arms, looked him straight in the eye, and said, "No." He got really flustered opened his mouth again to shout at me and I cut him off saying, "I said the answer is no!". He was completely stunned because he thought that since I was female and dressed femininely that I'd just fold in the face of his bullying.

Although, if I hadn't had to wear a skirt that day the guy might not have been such a big bastard to me.

Isn't the combination of brains and beauty supposed the ideal in a woman like brains and brawn is the ideal in a man? I think the geek/intelligence=unattractiveness is outdated. There might still be pockets of ignorance about this issue but for the most part I think this idea is slowly fading. Once I got out of high school my intelligence has been valued. I have not been demeaned for it.

 

[lafmeche]

Isn't the combination of brains and beauty supposed the ideal in a woman like brains and brawn is the ideal in a man? I think the geek/intelligence=unattractiveness is outdated. There might still be pockets of ignorance about this issue but for the most part I think this idea is slowly fading. Once I got out of high school my intelligence has been valued. I have not been demeaned for it.

I can't speak for other more 'normal 'types, but I certainly prefer more intelligent women, regardless of how feminine they appear. I do like to see a feminine side, but it's not necessary and is possibly just leftover social programming. My gut tells me that the rest of the US is starting to accept this, but I think it's only because technology has given people like us more of a voice than in the past. I'm not convinced 'normal' people accept it any easier than they used to. I say this because nearly all the 'normal' men I know still prefer less intelligent women with relatively loose morals and are intimidated by overly intelligent ones. (Or perhaps they just don't know how to relate to them.) Same for the women: most of them tend to prefer the stereotypical outgoing jock type. Then again, I do currently live in a relatively rural area, where the people are generally uneducated and have almost no experience with the larger world.

I would say that the way a person acts and dresses often says something about how they work internally. When people see a woman dressed nicely, they jump to the most common explanation: that clothes and appearance are important to whoever they're looking at. They then attach the most common stereotype. I think this is largely programmed for more social types and is a tough habit to break (if they're even aware that they do it). I hate to admit it, but I do catch myself doing that, though I am perfectly capable of changing my view when I receive new information.

As far as INTP being 'wrong', I don't really feel that people still behave this way now that I'm an adult, though most of them do see me as different and only learn to deal with me rather than actually get to know me.

When I was young, I was very much an outcast when out amongst my peers, almost certainly because of my INTP tendencies. When in 1-on-1 situations though, I generally got along fine. I suspect this was because I was easy to ridicule, making me a target of opportunity for people to make themselves look better. When nobody else was around, I was generally treated like any other person or even shown respect.

 

[lafmeche]

I don't think it's female presence that makes this forum nurturing. There's a sizable portion of both nurturing males and females here. In contrast, INTPCentral seems to be composed of mostly non-nurturing males.

When I recently started getting back into this Myers-Briggs stuff, I found INTPc and began reading. I found INTPf after and they're definitely different. Granted, I've only recently started reading these sites, but it feels to me that the difference is not so much about nurturing, but an almost hostility over there.

There seems to be a much larger concentration of other types at INTPc compared to here (I'm guessing). I suspect many of the INTPs are also younger and possibly more easily provoked by trolls and more social types that don't 'get' us. Perhaps many of them are still trying to find their identity and are lashing out with 'I'M NOT LIKE YOU' outbursts. The lower concentration of other types here might make us more understanding of each other and less prone to outbursts, preferring more analytical discussion of what we are and why we do things, rather than the 'you're different from me because of x,y,z discussions I've read at INTPc'.

I'm just throwing out ideas, of course. It'll take me a little while to fully integrate


Edit: In my two posts, I completely failed to address the original point of the thread (oops). I would have to say I've observed probably roughly a 4:1 ratio of male INTPs to females, but I suspect that's not accurate. Most of the more introverted women I've gotten to know are forced, either by themselves or others, to be outgoing and fit into the more traditional role. The men, on the other hand, tend to more often be the stereotypical geeks that are used to being outcasts and thus embrace it as their own culture.

 

[Chronomar]

That always annoyed me. While I like nice dresses and shoes, it really bothers me how girls only tell me I'm feminine/pretty when I'm wearing a dress or a well coordinated outfit. Nothing has changed but my clothes, yet I'm only feminine when I'm wearing a dress?! The same mind is in there 24/7. They'll appreciate my mind when I'm wearing a dress or girly outfit, but they are just weirded out when I "use my brain" in any other setting. I wonder if I could overcome this contradiction by always wearing pretty clothes and "using my brain" at the same time...

I've experienced that also. My clothes style ranges from the cargo pants+tshirt to the pastel skirt and frilly shirt. This is mostly because all my clothes were bought as gifts for me (what little money I have that isn't paying for college I tend to loose buying books).

In my adv. science or math or engineering or really any "male" topic classes when I wear the cargo pants+tshirt stuff, all my male classmates tend to regard me as a friend and forget I'm female. They also tend to trust the lab results I get more as well.

When I wear more feminine clothes, they "double check" my math answers "just to be sure" and tend to avoid talking to me in a friendly manner. You can guess which I wear more often.

On the day after our class got our HonorsCalc.II exam scores, I came to class wearing a summer-type dress. When someone asked me what my score was, and I told him 97% (best anyone did in the class did) they refused to believe me until I showed the score report. Looks on their faces were quite amusing

 

[cuterebra]

Isn't the combination of brains and beauty supposed the ideal in a woman like brains and brawn is the ideal in a man?

I've always gotten the impression that people expect women to be either smart or pretty, but not both.

 

[aracaris]

I've always gotten the impression that people expect women to be either smart or pretty, but not both.

This is still true to an extent, and to a lesser extent the expectation is that a woman will not be smart, but maybe she'll be pretty, but my experience is very much that both these expectations have diminished and continue to fade.

But I still think that people have more issues with introverted females than introverted males. At least the males have the "strong and silent" archetype, which is somewhat positive. Females only have the label of "shy" which is always negative.

Yes, all though I've known men whom were regarded as shy too (and some whom genuinely were, and perhaps ironically actually extroverts, which resulted in them being very conflicted, desperate, and needy and probably more terribly insecure than they would have been if they had been shy introverts). That introverts tend to be thought of by extroverts as shy is also problematic, as they are often not, and this is yet another sign of people misunderstanding one another. I've been shy, but while I'm still very much an introvert, I am definitely not shy anymore.

 

[aracaris]

I've always gotten the impression that people expect women to be either smart or pretty, but not both.

This is still true to an extent, but my experience is very much that this expectation has diminished and continues to fade.

But I still think that people have more issues with introverted females than introverted males. At least the males have the "strong and silent" archetype, which is somewhat positive. Females only have the label of "shy" which is always negative.

Yes, all though I've known men whom others commented were shy too. That introverts tend to be thought of by extroverts as shy is also problematic, as they are often not, and this is yet another sign of people misunderstanding one another. I've been shy, but while I'm still very much an introvert, I am definitely not shy anymore.

When I wear more feminine clothes, they "double check" my math answers "just to be sure" and tend to avoid talking to me in a friendly manner. You can guess which I wear more often.

On the day after our class got our HonorsCalc.II exam scores, I came to class wearing a summer-type dress. When someone asked me what my score was, and I told him 97% (best anyone did in the class did) they refused to believe me until I showed the score report. Looks on their faces were quite amusing

This is the best reason I have heard yet for wearing more feminine clothes, to mess with people's expectations, I would get many a good laugh out of it. It would eventually get old though I'm sure.

 

[truthseeker72]

I have to disagree about introversion's effects on the genders. Even in 2010, men are still expected to initiate action in various situations more than women (e.g., asking out somebody on a date). Men who are relucatant to do this are not percieved as the strong, silent type; they just have far fewer dates. The social sanction for perceived shyness is pretty stiff for males. Unfortunately, many people (particularly extroverts) confuse introversion with shyness, so introverted males suffer the consequences as a result.

 

[cuterebra]

The discussion about wearing "girly" clothing is an interesting topic. I recently had to do something of a wardrobe overhaul and so I've been thinking about it.

As an introvert, I prefer to dress down when I go out unless it's a special (and social) occasion. People leave me alone when I'm in sweat pants or ripped jeans. I like it that way, as I'm not forced put on a fake smile and participate in small talk. I'm not sure if it's because I look like a crazy homeless person or what, but sloppy dressing definitely discourages conversation.

When I wear feminine clothing and some makeup, it's different story. Cashiers chat with me and strangers pay me compliments when I'm standing in line. It also makes me a baby/small child magnet, which is unfortunate since I don't like babies. The effect can certainly be useful in some situations, but it's an added stress when I go out to run errands, that's for sure.

People see meaning in what we wear even if we didn't wear it to make a statement. I blame the SJs.

 

[Trebuchet]

Femininity can be faked through appearance which has been one of the great discoveries of my life. I've never seen myself as particularly masculine or feminine but a nice balance of the two. However, in junior and high school I got a lot of crap about not being feminine enough. A lot of kids at that age seem to feel a strong need to pigeon hole people. I didn't fit into any convenient holes. So I added a few feminine details to my look. It made a difference but it has taken time to discover a nice balance between appearing feminine enough to not get funny looks and not looking so feminine that people mistake me for a girl instead of an intelligent introspective adult.

I have never felt particularly masculine or feminine, either. For me, those are both moods which can change. Today I feel feminine, so I put on lipstick and a nice blouse. (I'm old enough not to get carded any more so I don't worry about looking like a kid.)

Junior high is probably the worst age for pigeonholing, since that is young enough to miss a lot of perspective and nuance, which starts to become more evident around high school.

However, adults pigeonhole on the basis of gender constantly. From the moment our daughter was born, it seems, adults were asking if she was a "tomboy" or a "girly girl." As if those were the only choices! At 5, she likes cars, ballet, science, dresses, worms, books, and everything else. If she has a dress, people say, "Oh, she is such a girly girl." If she is digging up toy dinosaurs while playing archaeologist, they say, "Oh, she's a little tomboy." Morons.

I've also had other moms tell me, "Of course she is afraid of riding a bike. She's a girl." Or "I hope she doesn't like Star Wars because that is for boys." Morons again.

When I wear more feminine clothes, they "double check" my math answers "just to be sure" and tend to avoid talking to me in a friendly manner. You can guess which I wear more often.

On the day after our class got our HonorsCalc.II exam scores, I came to class wearing a summer-type dress. When someone asked me what my score was, and I told him 97% (best anyone did in the class did) they refused to believe me until I showed the score report. Looks on their faces were quite amusing

How annoying. I went to what was probably a much smaller engineering and science college, so everyone knew everyone. M:F ratio was 4:1 at the time, and I'd guess at least half xNTx which was very cool. It didn't really matter if I wore jeans and a t-shirt to lab or put on a dress, since no one was a stranger, and no one was admitted without being smart enough to be there. I never thought before about how freeing it was to be able to be feminine there, or not, and not worry about it. Thanks for that insight.