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INTP-INTJ similar lifestories, relationship after 3 years spent

Manipulator

analyse, manipulate
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#1
INTP (me) and my female INTJ colleague from college. She is very closed in herself, she often ignores me when I say something, talk very little, but after 3 years I got some understanding and information about her. and there is so much similarities in our life

-We both study technical physics now, and both were 1 year on another studies before, me - Computer Science, she - Mathematics.
-We both have very bad grades, we were forced to repeat a year, we don't enjoy what we learn, we just want to finish it ;
-we don't have friends, we think everyone is idiot in our class, and envy them, because they manage better with learning, we don't know what to talk about with other people, because none have same interests like us;
-we love music and we play instruments, both finished music school;
-we have a lot of absences, we sometimes even don't go on exam, because we think we won't pass, while one stupid ESFP pass everything because of cunningness;
-we both are very indecisive, doubtful, resigned
-there are much more details, that I'm not able to list, but there are some differences:

-she loves math, I hate it
-I try to be nice, she even doesn't say "hi"
-we think very different and can't understand each other, like we spoke with different languages
-I like to have eye contact(at least when listening), she avoid it all the time
-we don't agree on anything, when talking, just have very different perspectives

THE POINT OF THIS TOPIC
I want to give you more insights about my other topics about socionics, it is more similar to Jungian types than MBTI, but have deeper (and less precise) understanding of human thinking differences.

THE CONCLUSION
despite having different types, perspectives, thinking styles, and valuing other things (you know the differences between INTP and INTJ) we have in the same place in life, the outcome is very very similar and it's because we have the same amount of preference on functions, Ni and Ti (but our conscious self is focused on different sides[but the unconscious still works in the background])
 

QuickTwist

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#2
I never cared much for socionics because there is damn near zero consensus.
 

Animekitty

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#3
We might have spoken on socionics before but I would wish to friendlily flesh this out a bit more. I will use Dario Nardi's work since I have his book from 2011. In my opinion, functions do not work in the background. We suppress what we do not use and bolster what we prominent in our stack. INTP and INTJ --- By Nardi Ni has all brainwaves in gamma super high(amplitude) and unified. Nardi has Ne as all brain regions fluctuating in frequency at different amplitudes. Its impossible for Ni to be in the background of Ne or Ne to be in the background of Ni because. Because unification and Fluctuation are not able to be in each other's backgrounds.

In his diagrams, the outer regions are super active in Te and the inner areas are active in Ti. If Ti and Te we in the background of each other the whole brain would be active making Ti and Te the same thing. Te suppresses Ti to function. Ti suppresses Te to function.

I got this all from Dario Nardi but it still follows that function are not active in the background like socionics suggests. Instead, Ni is the opposite of Ne and completely fills in the mental area with unification and completely pushes out fluctuations. Fluctuations completely cess to exist as the orientation of intuition and thus existing nowhere mentally.
 

Manipulator

analyse, manipulate
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#5
We might have spoken on socionics before but I would wish to friendlily flesh this out a bit more. I will use Dario Nardi's work since I have his book from 2011. In my opinion, functions do not work in the background. We suppress what we do not use and bolster what we prominent in our stack. INTP and INTJ --- By Nardi Ni has all brainwaves in gamma super high(amplitude) and unified. Nardi has Ne as all brain regions fluctuating in frequency at different amplitudes. Its impossible for Ni to be in the background of Ne or Ne to be in the background of Ni because. Because unification and Fluctuation are not able to be in each other's backgrounds.

In his diagrams, the outer regions are super active in Te and the inner areas are active in Ti. If Ti and Te we in the background of each other the whole brain would be active making Ti and Te the same thing. Te suppresses Ti to function. Ti suppresses Te to function.

I got this all from Dario Nardi but it still follows that function are not active in the background like socionics suggests. Instead, Ni is the opposite of Ne and completely fills in the mental area with unification and completely pushes out fluctuations. Fluctuations completely cess to exist as the orientation of intuition and thus existing nowhere mentally.
you can be right, I don't want to convince anyone, just give some more options, what in my opinion is possible;
Are you going to tap that ass, Manipulator?
I would like to
 

QuickTwist

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#6
We might have spoken on socionics before but I would wish to friendlily flesh this out a bit more. I will use Dario Nardi's work since I have his book from 2011. In my opinion, functions do not work in the background. We suppress what we do not use and bolster what we prominent in our stack. INTP and INTJ --- By Nardi Ni has all brainwaves in gamma super high(amplitude) and unified. Nardi has Ne as all brain regions fluctuating in frequency at different amplitudes. Its impossible for Ni to be in the background of Ne or Ne to be in the background of Ni because. Because unification and Fluctuation are not able to be in each other's backgrounds.

In his diagrams, the outer regions are super active in Te and the inner areas are active in Ti. If Ti and Te we in the background of each other the whole brain would be active making Ti and Te the same thing. Te suppresses Ti to function. Ti suppresses Te to function.

I got this all from Dario Nardi but it still follows that function are not active in the background like socionics suggests. Instead, Ni is the opposite of Ne and completely fills in the mental area with unification and completely pushes out fluctuations. Fluctuations completely cess to exist as the orientation of intuition and thus existing nowhere mentally.
One problem with this... How do you explain the shadow functions?
 

Animekitty

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#7
One problem with this... How do you explain the shadow functions?
That is exactly what I just explained away. 4 function period. Not 8. Not 4 in the background of the main 4. The main 4 push the other 4 out of existence.

Extroverted Intuition pushes Introverted Intuition out of existence as one example.
That's the whole point of Jungian typology. Extraversion and Introversion cannot coexist in the same function.

Only one N exists and it must be E or I.
Only one S exists and it must be E or I.
Only one T exists and it must be E or I.
Only one F exists and it must be E or I.

If Fi and Fe were two separate things then two F's would exist and 8 functions, but they do not. One F only not two F. thus 4 functions but polarized I or E.
 
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QuickTwist

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#8
That is exactly what I just explained away. 4 function period. Not 8. Not 4 in the background of the main 4. The main 4 push the other 4 out of existence.
I don't see how this makes sense considering the theory of CFs is predicated on Jung's work, which means that Nardi isn't really measuring CF but some other dynamic roughly synonymous with CF, but not at all a direct correlation.
 
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#9
There's also the aspect of opposition between sensation and intuition, and thinking and feeling, as well as general attitudes of consciousness and unconsciousness.

So it's not even really to say Extroverted intuition pushes introverted intuition out of existence. That's what extroverted sensation does.

But it's complicated. And yeah, 8 function stuff is over-simplified nonsense. The most essential Jung is the unconscious when it comes to types. Which, incidentally, is the purported locus of "shadow functions" such as it is.
 

QuickTwist

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#10

Animekitty

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#11
Ok think of it this way E is positive and I is negative. NS is polar perception so one is E and one is I. - TF is polar judgment so one is E and one is I.
This is what ENFP looks like:
NFTS
There cannot be shadow functions because N is red and is a shadow N blue existed then N would be positive and negative at the same time. A shadow function is a function that makes N extroverted and introverted at the same time. If N is one thing and it has one polarity then it cants be both. N is polarized one way and it makes no sense it is both I and E. Instead S in ENFP is Introverted to balance the Extroversion of N. I believe every function NSTF that all 4 of them is one thing on there own, not 8 things. N does not slit into two things to become I and E. That is way overcomplicated. I believe a function gets an orientation and sticks to it. The greater N goes extroverted the further away in understanding and relatedness to Introverted Intuition. Jung says Object and Subject. Are E and I. I have gone so far into the Object with Ne that me telling you what Ni is, is beyond my ability. I just remember that girl that pierced my soul with her eyes. My list labels Ni as "Knowing". That is so far away from what my Ne does I must conclude I have no shadow Ni. She does the opposite I do. She goes into her subject and "Knows". I go outside myself and that means going inside can't happen for me. My need to rush to outside objects is too strong. To make connections all the time. There is nothing I can detect going inward making subjective intuitions, "Kowing" things. My Intuition is in one direction and that is Extroverted. No shadow introverted intuition in me.
 

QuickTwist

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#12
I am not convinced that if one has Ni, that they must have Se...
 
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#13
It's not about "having" attitude orientations of functions.
It's about having a generalized attitude orientation, known as the attitude of consciousness. This is predominantly ill-defined in most of the population as differentiation is only said to occur once the patient exhibits neuroses. It is the neurosis that is the caricature of type.

As for the T/F and S/N polarities. They oppose each other. If one is conscious the other is necessarily unconscious. If the consciousness has a generalized attitude of introversion, the conscious function will be introverted and will be more powerful than the other 3 combined. It's debatable whether the other 3 will all have the opposing attitude of consciousness but in general I think this would line up best with the concept of type as a pathology rather than a typical state.
 
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