INTP Engineers?

[FusionKnight]

Hi all! I'm new to this forum, but it's strange to read though some threads and feel like I already know you... creepy!

Anyway, I wanted to throw this out there: I'm 26 years old, and have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, and have been working in the field since I graduated from college. As I discover more and more about my personality (INTP) the more I realize where much of my frustration and disenfranchisement is coming from vis-a-vis my career.

When I was in highschool, and even when I was in college, I thought Engineering was everything I would love doing. I didn't know anything about being an INTP back then, but I had some innate sense of some aspects of my personality. Anyway, it seemed like Engineering would combine the logic/reason with curiosity/creativity. Aparently I have some strange definition of the word engineer that is quite different from everybody else's reality.

I'm beginning to discover that engineering is not particularly suited for the INTP personality at all. The fact that some personality test sites refer to the INTP as "Engineer" is really a disservice to those who are trying to understand their career choices in regards to their personality... this is kind of vague; let me be more clear.

My experience with engineering is that it tends to be the in-between, bridging the gap between the ideas and thinkers, and the doers and makers. We do a lot of project management, phone calls, emails, managing paperwork, etc. Was I a total idiot to think that engineering was the ideas part?

I'm wishing I had understood more about my personality and engineering before I had settled on studying and working as an engineer. I find myself constantly frustrated by drudgery, inheriting other people's problems, and actually having to manage the creation process of someone else's ideas. That's not what I signed on for!

Now I'm beginning to realize that engineering is not what I thought it was. I always had the idea that it was like architecture, only more high-tech. In reality (to continue with the building analogy) engineering is a lot more like a general contractor than like an architect.

So, after all that, does anybody else share this experience?

 

[Jesin]

Well, I know some people here are architects or training to be architects, and also that I've seen a lot more profiles referring to INTPs as architects than engineers.

Welcome to the forum.

(I'm moving this to the introduction section. Loveofreason, feel free to move it back if you want.)

 

[Agent Intellect]

in a way, i'd consider myself a "writer" (probably much the way you had considered yourself and engineer). but there, the problem begins. i simply LOVE to think of all the great books i COULD write. i come up with characters and plotlines and have all these stories in my head, but when i sit down to actually write them, i get nothing. basically, what i'm saying is that "engineer" is too much of a doer (just like the actual writing for me). i think you were on to it in your own post. you'd rather sit around and think about how great such and such could be, but when it comes time to actually do it, it kind of turns out that thinking about doing it was a lot more fun then actually doing it is lol.

 

[fullerene]

thank you!! I mean don't get me wrong... I'm very, very sorry to hear that you're fighting with your career... but as someone who's a physics major who has fought his parents (trying to turn him into a mechanical engineering major, because "it's easier to get a job that way") for a year and a half now because he didn't like the way the careers looked, I think that may be the most encouraging thing I've ever heard.

 

[Apathy]

Probably the best job for an INTP would be one where he can create a general design for a system without needing to get into the specific details for implementation. (It's the engineers job to figure out what is neccesary for implementation)

Sounds like you need to move up a rung or two in the creation process.

 

[FusionKnight]

Sounds like you need to move up a rung or two in the creation process.

Yes! But in the corporate world, the people who initiate the processes are all higher up in the hierarchy, as well as the creative process. This means, if I want to do that job in a traditional company, I'd have to fight through armies of Guardians and middle-management jobs to get there. Does that sound like a likely scenario in which an INTP can succeed?

As I see it, my options are:

1. Stay in engineering.
__a. Move to an R&D job, a design firm(?), or a startup
__b. Invent something and go into business for myself.
2. Get out of engineering into a more compatible field
__a. Architecture is my primary idea as a standby to engineering

Right now I'm kind of stuck where I am, since my wife just graduated from medical school and just started residency. I'm the primary bread-winner of our family. In 3 years, when she becomes a full-fledged doctor and begins her practice, I may have some more freedom to change careers or explore other options. Until then, my daily battle with frustration and impatience continues...

It's good to be...
...INTP!

Cryptonia: I would love to talk with you about what I've learned, if you're interested. I'd like to think some of my mistakes and epiphanies can help someone else. Let me know.

 

[Decaf]

If you're looking for a stop gap job that you might enjoy more... try Technical Writer. Its not coming up with the ideas, but it does use a lot of your ability to understand what's going on, break it down and explain it to people. You'd still have to talk to the design and testing engineers, but at least you wouldn't have to bridge the theoretical and physical. I grew up thinking that was an awful job, but now that I've had some of my own career epiphanies I think its just done by the wrong people much of the time.

 

[Kuu]

I always had the idea that it was like architecture, only more high-tech.

What is that supposed to mean?

Maybe you should have studied civil engineering. You would actually get to design stuff. But oh well.. the reason I gave up on all engineerings was precisely because I forsaw that most engineers end up doing drudgery instead of, you know, engineering...

 

[FusionKnight]

thank you!! I mean don't get me wrong... I'm very, very sorry to hear that you're fighting with your career... but as someone who's a physics major who has fought his parents (trying to turn him into a mechanical engineering major, because "it's easier to get a job that way") for a year and a half now because he didn't like the way the careers looked, I think that may be the most encouraging thing I've ever heard.

Just as a follow-up, I think it's important I say that engineering is a good field if you want plentiful, stable, well-paid work. You'll always be in demand as an engineer, and the earning potential is pretty good. My first job out of college I was making $52,000 as a Product Development Engineer (Design Engineer).

There are also many different kinds of engineering. Even for my degree, mechanical engineering, the possibilities are nearly endless. There are manufacturing engineers, product development engineers, research and development engineers, process engineers, sales engineers, quality assurance engineers, testing engineers, engineering managers, etc.

Pure science, though perhaps more attuned to the INTP personality is usually a more difficult profession in that there's more competition, less jobs, less security, low pay, etc. The reality is that you have to find <i>some</i> way of earning a living, for you and for your (future?) family and ambitions.

I'm not trying to discourage you from your true dreams; I just don't want to give unqualified advice... I'm sure you understand.

 

[FusionKnight]

I thought engineering meant coming up with original ideas, creating inventions, solving novel problems, etc. Like what an architect does with buildings but with technology (machines, computers, etc) instead. As it turns out, I was operating from a wrong definition of "engineer". Or was I?

I had to laugh when you suggested civil engineering. Not only is it the butt of most engineering jokes (no offense to those Civ-Es out there) but it also involves working in the public sector. Due to my strong libertarian philosophy, that more than grates on me.

Another aspect to my conundrum is that I'm a very artistic person, in addition to being very technologically and scientifically inclined. I suspect this is true of most INTPs. Pure science, or even engineering rarely allows one to indulge in that area of our personalities. Architecture on the other hand, it almost a perfect combination of art, science, engineering, sociology, ecology, automation, etc. And what are INTPs if not connoisseurs of fields of interest?

 

[Decaf]

I would be surprised if any of us managed to find happiness partaking in only one field of study. Its just too limiting. I want Will Wright's job. He is seriously the penultimate INTP of his generation. He studies diverse subjects unrelated to his career to a level of mastery that stuns many and then incorporates them into video games in ways no one had ever thought of before. Some of the ideas seem weird, most fail, but usually because of implementation. Some succeed beyond what anyone could have hoped.

Now if only I can do that for my areas of interest...

 

[Wisp]

I HAVE been looking forward to spore...

@Fusion

It seems like you have a solid grasp on who you are and where you want to go. Now all you have to do is get there.

...but while you're procrastinating from getting there, hang out here! With us!

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Hey Decaf, we need to talk

I'm currently studying for a future as an interactive games designer, a career I've been passionate it about for, well, before I can remember. Keeping to this topic (for now) being a games designer is the perfect job for an INTP or at least the best I know of. To elaborate, the designer works with the narrative, physiology and logic of a game; a task that requires creativity and deep analysis. I really want to go further into this but that would distract from this thread's focus

Oh and warm welcome to FusionKnight

 

[fullerene]

oh'k, thanks Fusion... ignore the PM then. I was gonna go through that to keep your thread clear, but I guess there's no real need.

I'm not very interested in job stability or high pay... granted my expenses will go up when I need a house/apartment and money for food, but my entertainment runs like under $50 a year... the stuff money can buy doesn't make me happy, just comfortable.

My ISTJ and ENTJ parents, however, tend to impress a stable career and steady funds on me. Ugh...

 

[FusionKnight]

Edit: can I quote your PM here, Cryptonia?

Cryptonia, I'll get into it here, rather than in a PM, since this topic is really about whether or not INTPs are well suited to engineering. As an interesting note, a lot of the engineers I know seem to be S's or J's. INTPs seem to be pretty rare; more rare in the corporate world than in the general population, I'd wager.

First off, let me say despite the frustration I feel with my engineering career, I'm not so sure it hasn't been beneficial to me in some major ways. To use a phrase you've probably heard the adults in your life overuse, your education (and experience) can open up doors that would otherwise be closed to you. In that sense, studying and practicing in a "practical" field like engineering can be an asset, even if the substance isn't what we crave.

Just as a point of reference, a $250,000 house (lower mid-range for urban mid-west United States) will cost you roughly $1,800 per month for a mortgage (includes insurance, taxes, etc.). Utilities (electric, gas, internet, garbage, water, etc.) might cost you $250 per month. Food is maybe $100 per month, if you cook for yourself, and don't eat out or prepared stuff. Miscelaneous household items (toothpaste, soap, new socks, lightbulbs, etc) might cost around $75 per month. Add in $100 for entertainment (eating out, watching movies, upgrading your PC), $400 for car payment, $400 for savings, you end up with expenses of roughly $2800 per month. Once you figure in taxes, 401k, health insurance, payments on school loans, etc. your gross earnings should be at least $4000 per month. That comes out to nearly $50,000 per year.

The above is just meant to get you thinking. Consider what you might want from life 10 or 15 years from now. What you do now will directly impact what's possible later. Do you want to own a house? Get married? Will your spouse want to buy a house? Will you have kids? Can your parents afford to take care of themselves after retirement? Would you be able to afford sending them to a nursing home should they become frail? Do you like taking yearly vacations? To Europe? Do you want to be financially independent to work on your own projects? How old do you want to be when you can afford to retire? These are all questions to start asking yourself now.

What does this all have to do with the topic at hand? Well, I'm using the famous INTP holistic approach here. I just want to encourage you to think critically about the SJ thing called "reality". That's often a dirty word to us INTPs, but unfortunately, a lot of the stuff we want, and the life we wish we had, has to exist in an SJ world.

Keep in mind, too, that if you were to study engineering and get a job and work for 5-10 years in the field, you would learn a lot; about people, businesses, yourself, different technologies, different products, customers, methods of doing thinigs. This can all foment in your brain, giving you fuel for your INTP ambition. Getting an engineering degree and job can bring you a lot of experience, and you can always get out later, go back to school, whatever you want later. It's not a one way road.

Accademia, from what I've seen, is more of a closed system. With a bachelor's degree in engineering (4 years of college), you can get good jobs, and immediately begin working in your field. This means starting salaries are high, and starting responsibility is also high. In the pure sciences, or in accademia, it's much harder to get by with just a bachelor's degree. That's because competition for jobs in pure sciences or within the university system is extremely intense. There just isn't that much demand, but a large supply. This means the pay is lower, and the jobs harder to find. If you need to complete higher degrees, that will specialize you more (contrary to the INTP mindset), make it harder to change directions later, and increase your debt load (those monthly payments add up quick).

This is feeling a bit rambling to me. Perhaps if you ask some of the questions you have, I could answer them more concicely.

(Man, my spelling sucks, and my spellchecker doesn't work.)

 

[icywindow]

I'm currently studying for a future as an interactive games designer, a career I've been passionate it about for, well, before I can remember. Keeping to this topic (for now) being a games designer is the perfect job for an INTP or at least the best I know of. To elaborate, the designer works with the narrative, physiology and logic of a game; a task that requires creativity and deep analysis. I really want to go further into this but that would distract from this thread's focus

You and me both, I've got about 5 ideas on the back/side/front burner with another friend, and always looking for more inspiration. The implementation also can be fun just so long as you can make the exercise a lesson in figuring out the system that you want, and how it will interact, then tweaking it as you go along.

To FusionKnight:

I know mostly what you mean. I have worked in IT for a while now, and the job capacity that I'm in right now basically is a design job. Coming up with the design isn't the hard part, it's the thinking what needs to go where which sometimes is the odd part. I'll spend 3-4 days just going through different parts of the process trying to think through something that fits here and there, and thus, I get the idea in my head, then bang out the drawing in a day. To the untrained eye, though, it looks like I'm being lazy, which is sometimes the case.

If you can get into things you haven't worked with before directly, I think you'll find that your engineering might end up becoming more fascinating to you; for example, try some EE stuff - you might find out you like it a lot more (understanding how it works, why it works, and what needs to go where).

 

[Jordan~]

I considered being an architect for a while, but decided I would get bored too easily with working on long projects, and seeing my buildings completed wouldn't be enough motivation.

 

[fullerene]

hmm... well perhaps I could ask you this: do you know of any specific job titles/descriptions where people can basically dream up ideas or theories? I'd even be cool with straight problem solving... the "we expected this to work, and it doesn't... what's wrong?" kind of thing. Like I said, I'm a physics major (although I'm doubling in Philosophy, at least as a current plan) who pretty much wants to go into grad school and work through a PhD. I've been told that natural science majors never have to pay for grad school and usually get stipends actually, because colleges need people to teach/TA their classes.

I would very, very much like to work as informally as possible. When I was younger, I used to say that I will have failed life if I end up working in a suit and tie. Honestly if someone could provide me with a room to live in, food, and stuff they need solved to keep me busy, I'd basically be willing to work for them for that (and I'd probably make more progress than anyone else, although it'd be unreliable).

I could deal with a job with set hours alright, although I think my productivity would honestly go up considerably if I could start work whenever I woke up naturally. I basically learned while doing sound tech for high school choir concerts and stuff that love work (and do a pretty good job) until I feel "pressured" into it. Then my ability drops quite a bit. It's not that I mind pressure--I actually thrive under it... but it's a problem when I feel forced by peoople, not circumstances.

...so... any ideas of technically oriented jobs that fit (mostly) with that kind of a mindset? Or do I have to look outside of industry for them?

 

[Agent Intellect]

a job where you sit around and just come up with ideas on your own time, that would be the life. i always thought it'd be cool to have a job like on the show "House", you sit around and think things over while you send your team to go do the foot work and deal with the people.

 

[icywindow]

Go into computer programming, get really good at it, then find a person who's doing an R&D operation. Generally, if you can prove that you have good ideas and ways to implement them, you'll never run out of projects. Look for the people who have the ideas that you can team up with, and work it in your spare time.

Otherwise, start patenting all the ideas you have and sue someone when they decide to use your idea. XD

 

[Decaf]

Otherwise, start patenting all the ideas you have and sue someone when they decide to use your idea. XD

I'm pretty sure you have to show intention to market an idea to be eligible for, or to enforce, a patent or a competitor can claim 'fair use'.

Still... start ups are the way to go when you don't have the paper to back up your skills. Once you have work experience, education drops to the bottom of the list on what's necessary.

 

[loveofreason]

A belated welcome to FusionKnight. Looks like you've settled right in!

 

[FusionKnight]

A belated welcome to FusionKnight. Looks like you've settled right in!

Thank you! Yeah, it's kinda freaky how we all seem to mesh. Hope I'm not ruffling any feathers with my jump into the deep end on some of my posts!

Anyway, Cryptonia, I think the computer programming is an excellent idea to consider. Before I earned my mechanical engineering degree, I worked for about 5 years or so as a web developer. I found it to be much as you describe your "dream job".

In general, I got to work alone, with complete autonomy. I would be given a high-level project (like build a searchable phone directory of employees) and I would be allowed to implement whatever solution I came up with. I could spend long hours researching the appropriate algorithms, languages, etc. I could piece all the components together, take them apart when I thought of something better.

I would come into work in the morning, and settle into my quiet cacoon of a cube, and not emerge until biology (in or out) or consultation with a collegue forced me to.

I know it's not quite in your field of study, but I'd suggest you check into it, at least. Another area you might think about is robotics. It's like computer programming, but with a physical existence to your software as well. Very cool. For that, you may have to get into engineering, but if you plan on staying in accademia, you may avoid many of the frustrations I've experienced.

I'll think of some more suggestions...

 

[fullerene]

awesome, thanks a bunch. It's tough cause I don't actually have all that much experience with computers, but I could deal with it I think. lol I'm not even sure why I don't like them... but I'll definitely remember it if I can't find anything to do after school

 

[vic]

I'm an INTP and I work as a Software Engineer a.k.a. Computer Programming.

It's not all that cracked up to be and it really depends what area of computer programming you get into.

Right now, I work in the entertainment/tv industry developing internal applications for people. It's cool how I can literally stay in my cube and code the whole day. However, over time it's draining -- especially if you aren't working with anyone. When you get a nasty bug or problem, it's annoying to try and figure out by yourself.

I'm only 26 but I have worked in the biomed, aerospace, and now the entertainment industry. I've had to say the combination of the 3 industries seem to interest me more than just working in 1 industry.

I guess that's a common problem with me is that I want to do EVERYTHING, but obviously that's impossible lol

 

[severus]

My dreams are being slowly and painfully dissolved in this thread. I generally enjoy thinking that I can travel the world and have a nice apartment and eat my expensive vegan food and have a job that I love with plenty of vacation time for my travels. Why can't I inherit a fortune from some distant relative?
Okay how about this: I don't get a job or a nice apartment and eat cheap vegan food, and then instead of flying around the world for my travels I become a nomad. Think Chris McCandless.

 

[Taylored]

About 2 years ago I was planning on going back to school to get a degree in Engineering for similar reasons as stated in this thread. I wanted a productive output for my ideas and inventions.
I ended up taking a job recruiting engineers a couple of years ago. Shortly there after I realized that Engineering was not the type of career which would make me happy. Up until recently I did not know if I would ever be able to find something which would engage me on multiple levels, daily. I am relatively happy with my current position and see things getting much better in the next year or so, but my advice to any INTP would be to find something where your superiors let you run an entire project from start, to whenever you get around to finishing, or start your own business.

 

[Chronomar]

It sounds to me like you're in technical engineering. It is the type of engineering with less math (oh no! ). I'm in an engineering class for highschool students right now (Principles of Engineering), and we learned that there was an engineering "spectrum" that went from a techie's job, almost like maintenance, to the INTP style, heavy math, idea-guy type of engineering. I am going to go into molecular biological engineering. A lovely cross between engineering, math, and sciences (chemistry, biology, physics). There is also a great use for being creative. For me, this field is the best thing ever.

 

[lakeamy]

I am a high schooler looking for a suitable major, and so far I've been telling people that I'm going to do bioengineering. However, I've always kind of thought that engineering isn't for me. I don't want to create things-- I want to know why things are the way they are. Essentially, I just want to think about things and do in-depth research and come up with ideas. I'm not sure if that's an engineer or not. Basically I'm doing engineering because everyone has told me it's a good career-- stable, well-paying, and you can go anywhere from there. It seems to me like there are no good jobs out there. Really, I'd just like to stay in school all my life, learning and thinking and comming up with ideas and philosophies. I don't really want to deal in the physical world-- I just want to think and explore topics on my own without outside pressures. It seems there isn't any career that will do that, and I think life after college is going to stink. I thought I wanted to do research but then I realized research is mostly just painfully acquiring data-- and that's surely not interesting.

I've also thought that I want to start a school-- because school is just so messed up. The way kids are taught is dumb, they are not encouraged to think at all. It's really not about learning, and I have a lot of ideas about school, education, and learning. The problem is I have a dificult time doing things others haven't before-- I'm too afraid they will judge me.

Does anybody have anything, form experience or knowledge, that would really be a fun career for an INTP?

 

[crippli]

I took an engineering degree in structural mechanics, finite element analyses. I thought it to be interesting, the education. However, the working environment have put me off from perusing this as a career as I am not overly found of doing things just to make money. Probably, if one goes in this direction it would be best to put in the effort to do it well, and get a phd in the end(wish I did, but more difficult, and require more dedication). This will open more doors to research work where you are more free to peruse own interests and ideas, instead of mostly production, at least that is my impression.

I am thinking of doing another education in something else. Probably something softer. I like to learn new things, but not so much to do, and use it. There is also the question of economy when one doesn't work all that much. So should get it right next time, if possible.

 

[Oblivious]

I am a software engineering undergrad with a focus on video game development. It's not a hobby, or even a job. I consider it a way of life.

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=10058

There are more then a few intp software engineers on this forum. intps do seem to fit the bored, recluse nerd stereotype.

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=7750