INTP BC

[FusionKnight]

Is it possible that of all those in poverty, the INTP is most likely to escape?

 

[Cabbo Pearimo]

Such things cannot be scientifically experimented.

 

[loveofreason]

No, but we can theorise.

 

[Wisp]

No. That's the INTJ.

An escape from poverty within a group masterminded by INTPs is.

By ourselves, we'd never be motivated.
Probably.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

No. That's the INTJ.

An escape from poverty within a group masterminded by INTPs is.

By ourselves, we'd never be motivated.
Probably.

Yeah, a group escape from poverty (like, within a group of friends or more likely a family) would have someone who could understand and encourage the INTP. Like an ENFP.

 

[Ermine]

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but if I was poor and going nowhere, and knew there was something better out there, I'd make it happen. The thing that makes me the most depressed is the lack of progress. I live for progress, therefore I will work for progress.

 

[loveofreason]

Likewise. I expect myself to make progress and I can work toward a goal, but I take the most circuitous route and sometimes forget where I'm going.

Every few years I have to remind myself. But then the destination changes because my interests and understanding change.

Well, so long as I'm traveling somewhere.

(And making the road as I go. )

 

[EloquentBohemian]

But how do children in underdeveloped countries where life is a matter of day to day survival, who scavange dumps for something to eat, have the opportunity to progress? Education is little to none. Access to knowledge in the form of books or the Internet is nonexistant.
What becomes of these children who are INTP and INTJ?
Do their imaginations wither?
Do they cease to envision the future?
How does one explore the natural inclination to be an 'Architect' or a 'Master Builder' when the raw material is homelessness, hunger (or even famine), disease, exploitation and war?

And what of those INTJ/P children in North America whose parents are poor, perhaps homeless, alcoholics/addicts? What is the 'quality' of their time spent with their parents? What direction or guidance are they given? If they are homeless, they can not access libraries, for one must have an address to acquire a library card. They are bounced from school to school, worrying more about how to fit in and survive than what to learn and explore.

I didn't want to hijack this thread and this is beginning to sound like a rant, but in this age of information, knowledge, science and technology, it seems unconscionable to allow this to occur, yet I feel at a loss to address this in any suitable fashion. Solutions escape me.

 

[Ermine]

But how do children in underdeveloped countries where life is a matter of day to day survival, who scavange dumps for something to eat, have the opportunity to progress? Education is little to none. Access to knowledge in the form of books or the Internet is nonexistant.
What becomes of these children who are INTP and INTJ?
Do their imaginations wither?
Do they cease to envision the future?
How does one explore the natural inclination to be an 'Architect' or a 'Master Builder' when the raw material is homelessness, hunger (or even famine), disease, exploitation and war?

And what of those INTJ/P children in North America whose parents are poor, perhaps homeless, alcoholics/addicts? What is the 'quality' of their time spent with their parents? What direction or guidance are they given? If they are homeless, they can not access libraries, for one must have an address to acquire a library card. They are bounced from school to school, worrying more about how to fit in and survive than what to learn and explore.
.

I think that INTPs in this situation would be forced to be discontented (a bit of an understatement) ISTP/ISTJs. Also, you can't assume poor kids don't have any access to books. Even if they're scavenging through the dump, there's probably some newspaper, or old books. Some sort of reading material. They could also have access to religious texts.

As for homeless kids, they can go to public school and access the library there. That being said, they'd have to fight for their right to read. Their parents would probably discourage them from reading, or pursuing creative endeavors because they need to spend all their time working for survival. There is room for progress if they fight for their right to read.

 

[EloquentBohemian]

Excerpts from: NCH Fact Sheet #10, Published by the National Coalition for the Homeless, June 2008

Families with children are by most accounts among the fastest growing segments of the homeless population. In the United States today, an estimated 1.35 million children are likely to experience homelessness over the course of a year (The Institute for Children and Poverty, 2004). This number represents two percent of all children in the United States, and ten percent of all poor children in the United States.

Homelessness has a devastating impact on homeless children and youth’s educational opportunities. Residency requirements, guardianship requirements, delays in transfer of school records, lack of transportation, and lack of immunization records often prevent homeless children from enrolling in school. Homeless children and youth who are able to enroll in school still face barriers to regular attendance: while 87% of homeless youth are enrolled in school, only 77% attend school regularly (U.S. Department of Education, 2004).

Living arrangements for homeless children can be highly improvisational. During the 2003-2004 academic year, 602,568 homeless children were enrolled in school. Of these children, 50.33% were living in doubled-up arrangements, and 25.33% were living in shelters. The remaining 24.33% were spread among emergency foster care, substandard housing, abandoned buildings and vehicles, motels, the streets, and unknown areas.

In addition to enrollment problems, the high mobility associated with homelessness has severe educational consequences. Homeless families move frequently due to limits on length of shelter stays, search for safe and affordable housing or employment, or to escape abusive partners. All too often, homeless children have to change schools because shelters or other temporary accommodations are not located in their school district. In recent years, 42% of homeless children transferred schools at least once, and 51% of these students transferred twice or more (Institute for Children and Poverty, 2003)

Two subpopulations of children who face increased policy barriers to education are unaccompanied homeless youth and homeless pre-schoolers. Homeless youth are often prevented from enrolling in and attending school by curfew laws, liability concerns, and legal guardianship requirements (Anderson et al., 1995). Homeless pre-schoolers also face difficulty accessing public preschool education. Less than 16% of eligible pre-school aged homeless children are enrolled in preschool programs (U.S. Department of Education, 2004).

According to a survey conducted by the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty, 70% of all respondents (state coordinators and service providers) reported that funding was inadequate to meet the preschool needs of homeless children, and 80% of all respondents indicated that public preschool programs have waiting lists from less than 30 days to more than 12 months (National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty, 1997).

(...end excerpts. All emphasis mine.)

This is in the United States. How much worse can it be in underdeveloped countries?
If anything is our future, our children are.
Granted, I'm not a fan of the school systems as they are, but how many individuals who could be capable of great strides in our species are being 'thrown away'?

Personally, I would scrap all centralized school systems prior to university/college and issue each and every child a wireless laptop of their own for use exclusively for education. In this age of wireless high-speed technology, this is not impossible. The funds saved by not shipping children to expensive centralized complexes would more than compensate for the expense of the technology needed to implement this and the salaries for well-educated instructors.
Instruction could be four to five hours each week day and school would run year-round with two or three breaks of two-week spans each year. I believe children would learn faster and better thus begin to choose their individual paths according to their attributes earlier, allowing them to grow into intelligent, self-confident and discerning individuals.

@Fernando_the_weasel
I don't think "some newspaper, or old books. Some sort of reading material." or "access to religious texts" constitutes an education. This merely perpetuates the conditions which keep those in poverty, in poverty; and to keep those who create the environments whose symptom is poverty in control of the lives of those who suffer the indignity.

We must rethink what education means and how to achieve the highest standards for the greatest number of individuals, of which that number should be no less than 100%.
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"The liberally educated person is one who is able to resist the easy and preferred answers, not because he is obstinate but because he knows others worthy of consideration." - Allan Bloom, American philosopher, essayist and academic.

"Only the educated are free." - Epictetus (55 AD - 135 AD)

"The strength of the United States is not the gold at Fort Knox or the weapons of mass destruction that we have, but the sum total of the education and the character of our people." - Claiborne Pell, U.S. senator

 

[Agent Intellect]

speaking from a working class perspective, getting a job and making money takes priority over education. its a perpetual cycle. my parents didn't have the money to send me to a private school, and they certainly didn't have the money to send me to college. i've been working since i was 15 years old and went full time as soon as i graduated so i could pay my parents to live at home. i don't have the education for a better job, nor the means to get it since i have to scrimp and save all my money for the bills, and thats the way it'll be if i have children (although if you ask me now, i don't think it would be fair to me or my potential children for me to reproduce).

 

[Ermine]

@Fernando_the_weasel
I don't think "some newspaper, or old books. Some sort of reading material." or "access to religious texts" constitutes an education. This merely perpetuates the conditions which keep those in poverty, in poverty; and to keep those who create the environments whose symptom is poverty in control of the lives of those who suffer the indignity.

We must rethink what education means and how to achieve the highest standards for the greatest number of individuals, of which that number should be no less than 100%.

I never said that this constitutes an education, but it's a starting point. Once they learn to read, it's the beginning of education.

 

[sagewolf]

Better than nothing, although that sounds grim... God and I though we were poor when I was little. At least I went to school.

What about music? They'd have to have music from somewhere; it's everywhere in the world. ...Right? *Is beginning to be very depressed.*

...I read books more and drew more, I guess. The internet has actually had the side-effect of making me a more productive writer; no-one I know of IRL would read what I write. (Maybe one person.) xD

 

[Chronomar]

Before I was on the internet a lot, I read a ton of books. I still read a ton of books. Ironically, what caused me to be sucked into the procrastination vortex that is the internet was working on homework on the computer. It is just too easy to appear to be typing avidly about some new english paper topic or another when I'm really posting something on this forum, or going to the Official Monster Raving Loony Party website even though I am neither Loony nor Brittish. It is much less easy to sit around reading a book (where my mother can see, and yell at me) when I'm supposed to be doing homework. Before using internet, however, I managed. I was pretty good at interpreting the creaks in the floor of my house to know when someone was about to come into my room, so I could bookmark and hide my book, pull out my homework, and pretend to be acutally doing something.