INTP and INTJ ?

[Dunno]

I recognized myself while reading a description of INTPs. Always thinking, intuitionating the whole real world : I've became sociable now, but after many years of shyness and difficulties to get a constant link with other people.
I've made several tests and they tell me the same thing : I'm an INTJ. Judging rather than perceiving.
I think it can be true. When I was a teenager, I felt like always needing to justify anything, as if things (through me) weren't enough to deserve to exist. For example when I was talking about what I saw or did, always separating the inconvenients from the advantages, rather than talking only about the second ones, and seeing how I could make this better another time, or just seeing the thing as it was, without bringing any judgment. Yet I've learned social conveniences, and how to play with the "nude things" or how to act with while being in relation with other people. Also, I've made free my own capacity to see the things without making any judgment : it's probably the better way to see what/how they really are. This sounds natural, and for most people it probably is, but I couldn't assume to just see and perceive without any judging comment. Now I do, and while seeing and/or anylising something, I just try to perceive where it does stand. Nothing makes me more badly mooded than hasty judgments that describe facts or things as "good" and "bad".
Moreover, I always perceive people by intuitionating things with how they act or speak. I can think about that but the intuition will be always more important, as a basis for the thinking. And I always think a lot of stuff about a lot of things, including myself. The order "intuition for exterior and thinking for interior" makes me an INTP, whereas the tests tell me I'm an INTJ.

So, do you think I can be INTP and INTJ in the same time, for a part, or is a personality necessarily sealed in one precise category ?

 

[KazeCraven]

Well, see here's the issue.

If you go back to the founder, Carl Jung, you'll notice that he types these guys as completely different: introverted thinking type (IxTPs) and introverted intuitive type (INxJs). Sure, you might find that the type descriptions describe you equally well, or that the test types you as both, but really there's vastly different implications for each type.

An idea circulating around here is that we vary due to the development of each of our functions. Not sure how that would apply to make you seem to be a cross between an INTP and an INTJ, but that's a start. I'd guess you're an INTP who either values J-type things or has lower functions (Tertiary and Inferior) acting pretty strongly in your psyche.

 

[Razare]

Can an INTX even exist?

INTJ has...

Dominant: Introverted Intuition
Auxilliary: Extraverted Thinking
Tertiary: Introverted Feeling
Inferior: Extraverted Sensing

INTP....

Dominant: Introverted Thinking
Auxiliary: Extraverted Intuition
Tertiary: Introverted Sensing
Inferior: Extraverted Feeling


To be one, you'd have to express: Ni, Ne, Ti, Te, Si, and probably Fi.

I used to think I was an INTX, too. An unmotivated INTJ, or a highly certain INTP. My J/P scores are always very close on the axis too. The last test I took it was a 50/50 split, so INTX. It's just the test screwing up and not typing me properly as an INFJ. It's something to consider for yourself.

PS - I've had this motto for a while, "Understand first, judge later." Sometimes I get ahead of myself and get judgy, but I try not to.

 

[echoplex]

You could test as an ESFP too and it wouldn't make much difference, unless maybe the test is really good. But the kind of test I'm talking about has never existed (to my knowledge). All the tests I'm aware of are really awful.

So, you think you're INTP but the test says you're INTJ? I'd always go with descriptions (though they're often not very good either) over tests, so I'd probably lean towards INTP.

Also, I don't get how always needing to justify things 'as if things weren't enough to deserve to exist' points to INTJ (if that's what you're implying). It could easily be seen as dominant Ti's tendency towards detached analysis.

And seeing things as they are without bringing any judgment is soooo INTP, imo, at least when compared to INTJ.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

The problem with the tests is that in order to figure out whether someone is "J" or "P," they rely on questions about how neat you are or whether you stick to deadlines. After perusing this site, I've decided that being J really isn't about that. Sure, those could be symptoms of Jness, but they do not define Jness (if that makes sense). I have speculated that it's very possible for a P to test as a J simply because they've learned how to be efficient. Conversely, I would guess that some J's (especially INTJ's) might test as P's because they don't necessarily care about efficiency. According to the cognitive function letters, what makes you J is whether you apply your judging function to the outside world. My rule of thumb is that P's doesn't try to personally affect the outside world, while J's do. J's seem to be rather dynamic - they're always trying to move "stuff," whether that's people, objects, or ideas. I guess that's why a lot of people associate the need to be neat with J type personalities, because of the need to move stuff (though, I really think the "neat" thing is mostly an STJ thing). P's, on the other hand, not only don't need to move stuff, they don't want to do it. For the INTP, for example, you can't observe stuff and derive principles and theories from it if you're always moving it. In fact, P's not only don't like moving stuff, they don't like others moving it (which I think is a major source of conflict between P's and J's, though I note that J's don't necessarily like for other J's to move their stuff, especially when they had everything(one) all set up). For my part, I have very high numbers in all of the INTP attributes, but lately, I've started to seriously question whether I may, in fact, be an INTJ, and not because I suddenly turned neat. [Well, I actually have developed some organizational and neatness skills, which did kind of start my wondering. Well, that and the fact that I used to not be able to stand INxJ's, but now I find them awesome. I chalked it up to just being used to it, given my line of work and all, but now I'm not so sure.] It's because I have noticed that on occasion, I do move people. For example, when I'm trying to work out how to fit my work in the context of the larger scientific community, I tend to categorize everyone into realms of perceived interest, and then I move myself into places where they are not. Though, upon reflection, I've realized that I don't do this to them directly, only myself. And if I find out that my perceptions were incorrect, I'll change the categorization. So, between the two types, I still think I'm more likely to be INTP, unless I'm morphing into an INTJ.

Bottom line: Do you like to "move stuff?" Do you like to sit back and observe the universe at it unfolds, or do you have a burning desire to direct the flow? Based on what you've said, I think you're more likely to be INTP than INTJ. You said that you perceive people through intuiting how they will act or speak - that sounds like Ne to me. You also said that you like to observe things without judgement - sounds to me like your judgement function is introverted. And the need to justify everything is basically a reflection of putting everything into a logical structure, which could be true of either type, but you specified yourself, so it sounds like you do this internally - Ti. So, you have Ne and Ti, which are the INTP's top two functions. However, they are also the top two functions of the ENTP, so you have to figure out whether it's Ne or Ti that's dominant. Of course, don't take my word for it as I'm no expert. You should check out Adymus's thread on cognitive functions and go from there.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6582

Hope this helps!

 

[TheHmmmm]

You could test as an ESFP too and it wouldn't make much difference, unless maybe the test is really good. But the kind of test I'm talking about has never existed (to my knowledge). All the tests I'm aware of are really awful.

So, you think you're INTP but the test says you're INTJ? I'd always go with descriptions (though they're often not very good either) over tests, so I'd probably lean towards INTP.

Also, I don't get how always needing to justify things 'as if things weren't enough to deserve to exist' points to INTJ (if that's what you're implying). It could easily be seen as dominant Ti's tendency towards detached analysis.

And seeing things as they are without bringing any judgment is soooo INTP, imo, at least when compared to INTJ.

The very action of claiming to "see things as they are" is a judgment.

Just sayin...

 

[Razare]

Yep, I agree with you Hmmm.

 

[BigApplePi]

I guess that's why a lot of people associate the need to be neat with J type personalities, because of the need to move stuff (though, I really think the "neat" thing is mostly an STJ thing). P's, on the other hand, not only don't need to move stuff, they don't want to do it. For the INTP, for example, you can't observe stuff and derive principles and theories from it if you're always moving it. In fact, P's not only don't like moving stuff, they don't like others moving it (which I think is a major source of conflict between P's and J's, though I note that J's don't necessarily like for other J's to move their stuff, especially when they had everything(one) all set up).

I like my stuff right where it is. So please don't even think of moving it. If you're going to try to move it, you'd better notify me first. I'll decide. I don't want my stuff moved. I can't find it and it gets all mixed up but that's besides the point. What I do with my stuff is my own business and none of yours. Move yer own stuff and get the hell away from me or there will be trouble.

Not that I'm possessive or anything like that ...

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

I like my stuff right where it is. So please don't even think of moving it. If you're going to try to move it, you'd better notify me first. I'll decide. I don't want my stuff moved. I can't find it and it gets all mixed up but that's besides the point. What I do with my stuff is my own business and none of yours. Move yer own stuff and get the hell away from me or there will be trouble.

Not that I'm possessive or anything like that ...

My thoughts exactly.

 

[BigApplePi]

How many times do I have to tell you INTJs. Don't just do something. Stand there!

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

To my co-author (whom I now suspect of being xNTJ): Stop moving my crap!!! Stop changing my crap!!! You are hereby not allowed to edit my TeX files. And if you so much as think about touching my bibTeX files, you will go to straight to Hell. No passing "Go." No collecting $200. And you will not...

Huff. Puff. And now that I've gotten that out of my system...

 

[nexion]

How many times do I have to tell you INTJs. Don't just do something. Stand there!

Hahaha.

I have the same thoughts as the OP. After studying extensively on INTP and INTJ, and frequently scoring both INTP and INTJ (both being not very near the axis, so I assume it's not really due to test error), I have concluded that there is no way INTP and INTJ can have a dichotomy. I believe it is perfectly possible to be both. And I have been trying to train my J so that I can past the worst part of P: Procrastination and never acting on intentions.

Hehe, just so you know, I'm not so sure about anything I said in this post. Sometimes it happens that way. There's so much I don't know on these topics, that I'm never sure. My J side says I should go study therefore, while my P side says I should just not worry about it. I think I might do something about it tomorrow. Except not really, as I have much more important and immediate things to do before I can devote time to studying subjects that don't much to do with what I have planned in the future. Oh God, I am starting to develop my J.

 

[BigApplePi]

Hahaha.

I have the same thoughts as the OP. After studying extensively on INTP and INTJ, and frequently scoring both INTP and INTJ (both being not very near the axis, so I assume it's not really due to test error), I have concluded that there is no way INTP and INTJ can have a dichotomy. I believe it is perfectly possible to be both. And I have been trying to train my J so that I can past the worst part of P: Procrastination and never acting on intentions.

Hehe, just so you know, I'm not so sure about anything I said in this post. Sometimes it happens that way. There's so much I don't know on these topics, that I'm never sure. My J side says I should go study therefore, while my P side says I should just not worry about it. I think I might do something about it tomorrow. Except not really, as I have much more important and immediate things to do before I can devote time to studying subjects that don't much to do with what I have planned in the future. Oh God, I am starting to develop my J.

A "P" can judge; a "J" believes. If you will allow me to repost your comments as I guess a J might:

Hahaha. Not humorous.
The OP is correct. After studying extensively on INTP and INTJ, and frequently scoring both INTP and INTJ (both being not very near the axis, is due to test error), I have concluded that there is no way INTP and INTJ can have a dichotomy. No way it is possible to be both. I have no need to train my J. I am J. P is the worst: Procrastination and never acting on intentions.

Hehe, just so you know, I'm sure about everything I say in this post. It is definitely this way. There's so much I know on these topics, that I'm always sure. My J says I will go study therefore, so screw my P side. I will do something about it now. I have much more important and immediate things to do before I can devote time to studying subjects that don't have anything to do with what I have planned in the future. Oh God, I am so J it isn't funny.

 

[nexion]

A "P" can judge; a "J" believes. If you will allow me to repost your comments as I guess a J might:

Hahaha. Not humorous.
The OP is correct. After studying extensively on INTP and INTJ, and frequently scoring both INTP and INTJ (both being not very near the axis, is due to test error), I have concluded that there is no way INTP and INTJ can have a dichotomy. No way it is possible to be both. I have no need to train my J. I am J. P is the worst: Procrastination and never acting on intentions.

Hehe, just so you know, I'm sure about everything I say in this post. It is definitely this way. There's so much I know on these topics, that I'm always sure. My J says I will go study therefore, so screw my P side. I will do something about it now. I have much more important and immediate things to do before I can devote time to studying subjects that don't have anything to do with what I have planned in the future. Oh God, I am so J it isn't funny.

I cannot describe in words how much I laughed.

 

[BigApplePi]

I cannot describe in words how much I laughed.

I cannot abide by those who fail to take my convictions seriously. You must be a "P".

Of that I'm so sure I choke on it.

 

[nexion]

...

 

[Nyxie]

J and P are not in and of themselves determining letters of one's MBTI type; they are determined by the functions used. but, a good way of telling the difference, is how you make decisions. typically, as there are always exceptions, a J will want to make a decision based on the information at hand; a P will want to gather more information before making a decision.

don't make the mistake of stereotyping someone as being "uptight" or "flaky" solely for the fact that they are a J or P.

 

[Farion]

The problem with the tests is that in order to figure out whether someone is "J" or "P," they rely on questions about how neat you are or whether you stick to deadlines. After perusing this site, I've decided that being J really isn't about that. Sure, those could be symptoms of Jness, but they do not define Jness (if that makes sense). I have speculated that it's very possible for a P to test as a J simply because they've learned how to be efficient. Conversely, I would guess that some J's (especially INTJ's) might test as P's because they don't necessarily care about efficiency. According to the cognitive function letters, what makes you J is whether you apply your judging function to the outside world. My rule of thumb is that P's doesn't try to personally affect the outside world, while J's do. J's seem to be rather dynamic - they're always trying to move "stuff," whether that's people, objects, or ideas. I guess that's why a lot of people associate the need to be neat with J type personalities, because of the need to move stuff (though, I really think the "neat" thing is mostly an STJ thing).

THANK YOU. Here are some wings

That is the best description of the difference between INTJs and INTPs that I have ever read. I've sort of been having the same dilemma as the OP except inverted and reversed. The test tells me that I'm INTP (at least recently it does) and I like the INTP description slightly more due to the fact that I'm not quite as rigid as many INTJs (of course, that's not saying much). After I began looking into cognitive functions, however, I determined that I am almost definitely INTJ (due to Ni and Fi primarily, and due to the fact that I don't really understand Ne all that well).

Anyways, your post precisely points out a major failing of the test (I am not organized at all) and a major defining trait that I don't share with many INTPs: I am ambitious to an unhealthy degree.

I think this fits here

 

[nexion]

Give me some of your ambition Farion.

 

[typus]

Either I have misunderstood MBTI or several other people have. Based on my understanding, although this might be wrong, one either has a huge Pness or one doesn't. There's no INTx, and you never go from long Pness to small Pness. You can't have a mix of Pness and Jina. It's not like E/I is determined individually, S/N determined individually etc. but rather one has to find out what functions one uses and in what order. The tests however can pretty much be reduced to four questions:
"Do you like being alone? Do you like abstract reasoning? Are you logical? Do you procrastinate?"
From this they try to determine your type, but the error margin is huge. And the difference between Ne/Ni and Te/Ti should be big enough to determine if you're J or P. What is probably harder is the E/I, especially if your auxiliary function is very developed.


BigApplePi: NICE.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

...due to Ni and Fi primarily, and due to the fact that I don't really understand Ne all that well...

I think I recently had a rather poignant experience of Ne. I was at dinner with my mother, and she was discussing some of her co-workers. During a lull in the conversation, I got a strange feeling about some of her former co-workers that are only peripherally related to the issues of the day, if at all. I had a rather keen impression that there were hidden connections between the people, so I started asking my Mom about those people. I think she was a little confused since she hadn't really talked to or even thought about most of those people in years. She said that she had seen one fairly recently at a political rally (which was interesting because my mother's colleagues don't usually share her politics). That piece sort of fell into place, but I still got the impression that there were many pieces that needed falling into place. Usually, when I get that feeling, I pull out a piece of paper and start building a web of known connections between people to aid seeing the hidden connections, but as I was in a public place (and my Mom was liable to think me pathological), I just built the web mentally. I don't know much about these people, so I didn't get very far (and my Mom lacks the intuition to fill in the blanks), but I had grouped people together in the context of the sense that "there's something there." I think Ne works a lot like that, though, it can go a lot faster if one has all of the necessary information available (so, one might not notice it happening). Another good example is in chess. I imagine that the difference between an INTP chess master and an INTJ chess master is that the INTP will see a collection of chess pieces and will try to see how they are connected with each other and determine the strategy behind these relationships, while the INTJ will move the pieces to build the relationships necessary for an already devised strategy. So, I guess the difference between Ne and Ni is whether you try to decipher extant relationships and the underlying ideas or values driving them or if you try to build relationships according to your personal ideas or values. Admittedly, though, I don't really understand Ni all that well.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Based on my understanding, although this might be wrong, one either has a huge Pness or one doesn't. There's no INTx, and you never go from long Pness to small Pness. You can't have a mix of Pness and Jina. It's not

lmao, that caught me off guard. But true, there's no INTx.

INTPs have Ti-Ne, INTJs Ni-Te. One thinks in new ways to understand; one uses outside knowledge to achieve/confirm goals/beliefs. If you break it down by letters I don't think it's so easy to become confused in your correct type.

 

[Farion]

So, I started reading this today (I've come to the conclusion I'm mostly INTP) and I got to dreamoftheunknown's post and I thought: "Ooooooh. Damn. Maybe I am INTJ." I thought about posting, but then I decided to read on, at which point I came across my (month) old post. Wow.

Is there any type that has a REALLY bad memory?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

So, I started reading this today (I've come to the conclusion I'm mostly INTP) and I got to dreamoftheunknown's post and I thought: "Ooooooh. Damn. Maybe I am INTJ." I thought about posting, but then I decided to read on, at which point I came across my (month) old post. Wow.

Is there any type that has a REALLY bad memory?

INTP
Or maybe that's just me but almost everyone in my life tells me I have bad memory. Except when it is about something that was special to me.

 

[Geminii]

I seem to be able to choose where I am along a J-P continuum. If I have nothing to do or think about, I randomly brain-wander and think up castles in the air without concern for whether individual things are one thing or another (P-mode).

If there's a sudden emergency deadline, I 'clamp down', and the fuzzy fairy floss becomes an unbreakable high-speed cable as I kick ass and make things goddamn happen, snap-judging everything the whole way. (J-mode).

Depending on the level of focus required, most of the time I'm in between those extremes.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

To appear as an INTJ, an INTP would only need to express the top two functions of an INTJ, which are matured, but ignored.

Basically, for a small scale example, an INTP appearing as an INTJ would have to gather information and then use that information to assemble a time-sensitive plan or otherwise detailed and effective system of ideas. Which is in contrast to gathering the innate properties of ideas or objects and considering their infinitely possible interrelations or taking on different viewpoints to develop a way to categorize or systematize the information. It's not merely "becoming more J-like", because the J implies a whole new way of operating.

 

[Words]

because the J implies a whole new way of operating.

Is it then more natural for an INTP to fit into the "ISTJ shoes"?

 

[DarkGreen]

@Dunno Leaping Llamas! Is that a worm?

Seriously though, I'm an INTJ but not one of those evil ones people like to characterize. Sometimes, I'd like to go back to being an INTP but then I'd never get anything done. It rankles my skin to not do things that need getting done.
Like riding this elephant.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Is it then more natural for an INTP to fit into the "ISTJ shoes"?

Nope, Si is tertiary, meaning it is only half valued, and Te is ignored/uninteresting. It would probably be worse than INTJ. The more natural transformations are ISTP, ENTP and INFP which all require only one dominant function switch. ISFP also happens naturally when Fi is provoked.

According to my observations:

• ISTP when in social situations that aren't engaging (Ne/Se distinction is invisible)
• ENTP when energized by discussion of ideas (Ti is suppressed)
• INFP when in love, infatuated or deeply emotional (Ti is exchanged for Fi)
• ISFP when inspired by immoral acts, or words. (Ti-Ne ego is suppressed by Fi-Se superego)

 

[onthewindowstand]

The problem with the tests is that in order to figure out whether someone is "J" or "P," they rely on questions about how neat you are or whether you stick to deadlines. After perusing this site, I've decided that being J really isn't about that. Sure, those could be symptoms of Jness, but they do not define Jness (if that makes sense). I have speculated that it's very possible for a P to test as a J simply because they've learned how to be efficient. Conversely, I would guess that some J's (especially INTJ's) might test as P's because they don't necessarily care about efficiency. According to the cognitive function letters, what makes you J is whether you apply your judging function to the outside world. My rule of thumb is that P's doesn't try to personally affect the outside world, while J's do. J's seem to be rather dynamic - they're always trying to move "stuff," whether that's people, objects, or ideas. I guess that's why a lot of people associate the need to be neat with J type personalities, because of the need to move stuff (though, I really think the "neat" thing is mostly an STJ thing). P's, on the other hand, not only don't need to move stuff, they don't want to do it. For the INTP, for example, you can't observe stuff and derive principles and theories from it if you're always moving it. In fact, P's not only don't like moving stuff, they don't like others moving it (which I think is a major source of conflict between P's and J's, though I note that J's don't necessarily like for other J's to move their stuff, especially when they had everything(one) all set up). For my part, I have very high numbers in all of the INTP attributes, but lately, I've started to seriously question whether I may, in fact, be an INTJ, and not because I suddenly turned neat. [Well, I actually have developed some organizational and neatness skills, which did kind of start my wondering. Well, that and the fact that I used to not be able to stand INxJ's, but now I find them awesome. I chalked it up to just being used to it, given my line of work and all, but now I'm not so sure.] It's because I have noticed that on occasion, I do move people. For example, when I'm trying to work out how to fit my work in the context of the larger scientific community, I tend to categorize everyone into realms of perceived interest, and then I move myself into places where they are not. Though, upon reflection, I've realized that I don't do this to them directly, only myself. And if I find out that my perceptions were incorrect, I'll change the categorization. So, between the two types, I still think I'm more likely to be INTP, unless I'm morphing into an INTJ.

Bottom line: Do you like to "move stuff?" Do you like to sit back and observe the universe at it unfolds, or do you have a burning desire to direct the flow? Based on what you've said, I think you're more likely to be INTP than INTJ. You said that you perceive people through intuiting how they will act or speak - that sounds like Ne to me. You also said that you like to observe things without judgement - sounds to me like your judgement function is introverted. And the need to justify everything is basically a reflection of putting everything into a logical structure, which could be true of either type, but you specified yourself, so it sounds like you do this internally - Ti. So, you have Ne and Ti, which are the INTP's top two functions. However, they are also the top two functions of the ENTP, so you have to figure out whether it's Ne or Ti that's dominant. Of course, don't take my word for it as I'm no expert. You should check out Adymus's thread on cognitive functions and go from there.

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6582

Hope this helps!

Whats always ironic about these posts is that an INTP would wonder if it really was an INTP.

 

[Ver]

It rankles my skin to not do things that need getting done.
Like riding this elephant.

Ok then yeah, you definitely are an INTJ, but that's okay! Love your lil elephant dude. INTP's only do something if it's absolutely necessary, or they are very interested in the task/subject. lol

 

[knightofni]

I’ve also felt torn between INTP vs. INTJ. Could it be situation related? I’m usually one to go along for the ride, but I find certain people will draw me to overhaul a situation if their thoughtless choices might needlessly force me to change, or affect me negatively down the road.

 

[lucyintheskies]

Based on my understanding, although this might be wrong, one either has a huge Pness or one doesn't. There's no INTx, and you never go from long Pness to small Pness. You can't have a mix of Pness and Jina.

Thanks - that explains the pissing contests that I get myself into. It's my Pness.

 

[knightofni]

Thanks - that explains the pissing contests that I get myself into. It's my Pness.

well played.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I’ve also felt torn between INTP vs. INTJ. Could it be situation related?

People act out their J/P shadow when around unfamiliar people. If you find yourself appearing to be organized and structured when in reality your life is messy and unplanned then you are a P. If you are naturally judgmental and decisive, but you show lenience to make people feel welcomed, you are a J.

Also if you see life as obstacles to be maneuvered again you are P. If you see life as structures to be rearranged you are a J.

 

[Glordag]

Ti-Ne: You see connections, possibilities, implications, and feel the need to make sense of them in your internal world of ideas and concepts. You will think about what you "pick up" from the outside world until it makes sense, and do not feel a need to change things for it to make sense. If you think about something long enough, it will eventually make sense regardless.

Ni-Te: You have your own structured ideas and concepts of what people and things are that comes from the connections, possibilities, and implications that you derive within yourself. You will "move" things, as others have said previously, in order to make things fit into your structured ideas and concepts.

That's my best attempt at putting my understanding of the two into words, thus far.

 

[Reluctantly]

So, do you think I can be INTP and INTJ in the same time, for a part, or is a personality necessarily sealed in one precise category?

Some believe genetics only plays a role as to what types you can be destined for; and that your conditioning and experience of your life will direct you into a particular type of many possible ones. I believe this explains the majority of the problems that people have with type theories. You might be transitioning to another type and might find yourself being placed in between two or more of your possible genetic types for various reasons...and then yet realize the inadequacy of attempting to use type theory to find one type as a core constant self.

How have you seen yourself in your life's flow of time? What system would you prefer to create to solve and explain why you can't decide? Only then can your question be answered without having someone else deciding for you what is possible, rather than clarifying what is different and letting you decide what is possible.

 

[knightofni]

I do a lot of things deliberately, for the sheer sake of “nuisance avoidance.” Foresight is a big thing for me, and I'm not sure I understand which side of the line it falls on...

For example, one thing that compels me into action (moving stuff), is a specific group of people I am frequently stuck in the car with, who never put any critical thinking into getting from point A to B. The backtracking, wasted time, and overexposure to shitty radio drove me nuts, so now I plan all our drives like a control freak. I burn universally-appealing cd’s and orchestrate the drive. Could a certified INTP really put up with an extraneous 20-40 minutes of Rihanna and Kesha? more than once?

Also, I would be content living in a furnitureless dwelling, leaving my minimalistic belongings and clothes strewn wherever. The thing is, one can’t hide their home from acquaintances and family for very long, and life is much easier when you are taken seriously by others. I find the most efficient ways to put the scrutable aspects of my house in order, not because I prefer it that way, but because producing a semblance of normalcy allows me to be left alone more.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I've posted in here already but I think I found a better way to express my thoughts on this so-called type change:

There's a difference between using functions and identifying with functions, when you do the former you are simply borrowing the tools of another artisan.

 

[knightofni]

I've posted in here already but I think I found a better way to express my thoughts on this so-called type change:

There's a difference between using functions and identifying with functions, when you do the former you are simply borrowing the tools of another artisan.

Interesting. Concise. Very nice.

 

[Glordag]

I do a lot of things deliberately, for the sheer sake of “nuisance avoidance.” Foresight is a big thing for me, and I'm not sure I understand which side of the line it falls on...

For example, one thing that compels me into action (moving stuff), is a specific group of people I am frequently stuck in the car with, who never put any critical thinking into getting from point A to B. The backtracking, wasted time, and overexposure to shitty radio drove me nuts, so now I plan all our drives like a control freak. I burn universally-appealing cd’s and orchestrate the drive. Could a certified INTP really put up with an extraneous 20-40 minutes of Rihanna and Kesha? more than once?

Also, I would be content living in a furnitureless dwelling, leaving my minimalistic belongings and clothes strewn wherever. The thing is, one can’t hide their home from acquaintances and family for very long, and life is much easier when you are taken seriously by others. I find the most efficient ways to put the scrutable aspects of my house in order, not because I prefer it that way, but because producing a semblance of normalcy allows me to be left alone more.

This seems kind of INTJ, to me. While INTPs may not enjoy 20-40 minutes of Rihanna and Kesha, I think they'd be more likely to zone out, take it in and see what comes of it, or just deal with it than try and actively do something about it. I also generally don't think INTPs care as much about "wasting time" by getting lost or not having a plan unless they are worried about being late for something.

The need to adjust your surroundings in order to present an image to others that will allow to you be left alone doesn't seem like something an INTP would do, either.

Of course, these might just be poor examples. Or, my analysis/intuition on the matter could be way off base. I'm getting better at typing people, but I'm certainly no expert, especially on an online forum :\ .

 

[EyeSeeCold]

The car scenario is pretty ambiguous. I suspect an INTJ would plan ahead naturally to avoid irritation on his part, however an INTP can also see into the future and plan a practical solution to a problem. For the second part, I think tertiary Si shows it's weakness, while some cleanup is performed to prevent criticism of complete inability of Se.

 

[Wizardry]

In my experience the only functions that can be easily pinned down are the orientation of the N and T. These are the only people I instantly "click" with (and occasional INFJ's but it depends how "F" they are) and I can usually tell which way they go after a couple conversations.

Basically the Ni Te person see life as a puzzle and continually clicks pieces into place, building a pre-planned matrix of ideas (always scanning and organizing and it mostly happens naturally). The Ne Ti looks at one piece and blows it up into their own picture and seem to enjoy the picture aspect over the puzzle aspect.

 

[Glordag]

In my experience the only functions that can be easily pinned down are the orientation of the N and T. These are the only people I instantly "click" with (and occasional INFJ's but it depends how "F" they are) and I can usually tell which way they go after a couple conversations.

Basically the Ni Te person see life as a puzzle and continually clicks pieces into place, building a pre-planned matrix of ideas (always scanning and organizing and it mostly happens naturally). The Ne Ti looks at one piece and blows it up into their own picture and seem to enjoy the picture aspect over the puzzle aspect.

That was super obscure. I like it. I now have this image of an INTP looking at something like a pine cone, and then blowing it up on this digital projection in front of their face that only they can see. Sort of like those spaceship displays on sci-fi movies/tv series .

 

[EyeSeeCold]

NeTi is ENTP not INTP.

 

[Wizardry]

That was super obscure. I like it. I now have this image of an INTP looking at something like a pine cone, and then blowing it up on this digital projection in front of their face that only they can see. Sort of like those spaceship displays on sci-fi movies/tv series .

This is why I like INTP's and appreciate their function to society. They see the things I cannot see and give me a viewpoint that is usually a complete mirror (with a little extra) to my own. This difference of opinion only helps me get a clearer picture of things. It is really amazing what an INTJ and INTP can accomplish. I dream up some sort of new invention or idea of some sort and its like I give the INTP a foothold so they can jump up and pull down that magical starry thinking and help me refine my ideas and together we make something awesome. In return they get some new idea or concept to think about and get to have fun. Usually (at first) they find my deductive reasoning annoying but over time they come to appreciate it.

LOL@ the pine cone. I look at a pine cone I see a spiked object I could chuck at people or maybe open up to eat some edible seeds. An INTP friend looks at a pine cone he sees the tree, the squirrels, the sun hitting the leaves, the breeze rocking the tree limbs, etc.

*So it is Ti Ne right? I never cared for the personality stuff past the basic N or S division.

 

[Glordag]

NeTi is ENTP not INTP.

Yeah, I didn't pay attention to the order he put them in. I was just focusing on the topic of the thread and the fact that he mentioned Ne Ti. Besides, INTP interacts with the world through Ne, so I think the example still works :P.

 

[Glordag]

This is why I like INTP's and appreciate their function to society. They see the things I cannot see and give me a viewpoint that is usually a complete mirror (with a little extra) to my own. This difference of opinion only helps me get a clearer picture of things. It is really amazing what an INTJ and INTP can accomplish. I dream up some sort of new invention or idea of some sort and its like I give the INTP a foothold so they can jump up and pull down that magical starry thinking and help me refine my ideas and together we make something awesome. In return they get some new idea or concept to think about and get to have fun. Usually (at first) they find my deductive reasoning annoying but over time they come to appreciate it.

LOL@ the pine cone. I look at a pine cone I see a spiked object I could chuck at people or maybe open up to eat some edible seeds. An INTP friend looks at a pine cone he sees the tree, the squirrels, the sun hitting the leaves, the breeze rocking the tree limbs, etc.

*So it is Ti Ne right? I never cared for the personality stuff past the basic N or S division.

Yeah, a dominant function will always be introverted for an introvert. The difficulty to many (especially extroverts) is that an introvert will primarily exhibit their extroverted function to the outside world. That's why introverts are often misunderstood.

I completely agree about the INTP-INTJ collaboration working well, though. My best online friend is an INTJ, and we have gotten along well for I think 14 years now. My boss is also an INTJ, and I'm one of the only people in my SJ-filled office that understands him.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think the two make a perfect complementary pair when it comes to the leading functions' oversights, basically the strengths are strengthened.

 

[MatthewSawyer]

With some online tests, I used to straddle the INTP/INTJ line and it puzzled me. I used to rely on the profile explanations to decide.

Thank you for this very informative thread as it has solidified that between the two, I am definitely INTP. Thank you