INTP and INTJ functions at work(differences explained)

[hopefulmonster]

INTP:

Ne: Is the INTPs auxiliary function and provides them with information. Ne acts by forming association between multiple data sets or more precisely it IS the associations between data. Ne is free-floating and lacks concreteness and stability which leads to the INTP often appearing absentminded eccentric and indecisive unless counterbalanced by Ti/Si. INTPs are awash in a sea of possibilities that often disappear as soon as they are born. Ne could be looked at as a constantly expanding neural net being pruned by Ti.

Ti: Ti is the INTPs dominant function and acts as an internal rubric of reality and processes Ne's myriad associations. It counterbalances Ne's ephemeral nature by rigorously assessing the incoming data for logical correctness. Discarding that which is deemed false and incorporating the surviving connections into a larger coherent whole. This is the reason behind an INTPs obsession with logical correctness and "truth".

Si: Si is an INTPs tertiary process and can be summarized as an awareness of past sensations or memories and acts as a tether or anchor for Ne. INTPs deal with so many associations they require Si to keep track of past experiences. Si allows the INTP to hold onto past experiences in order to form connections between them.

Fe: Awareness of others feelings and values. This is the INTPs least developed function and when nurtured provides balance to the INTPs cold logical nature.

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INTJ:

Te: The INTJs auxiliary function. It acts by organizing the world into discrete, concrete information or facts that are then processed by Ni. It lends INTJs the appearance of confidence and oftentimes Pharisaicalness since it deals with concrete "facts".

NI: The INTJs dominant function and is perhaps the most mysterious of all the functions. It takes a single concrete data set provided by Te and then..."groks" it or at least the parts deemed relevant by the INTJ.

Fi: Fi is the INTJs tertiary function and deals with feelings and values. It provides Ni's realizations with a sense of importance or urgency.

Se: INTJ's inferior function. It is the immediate awareness of the external world.
*note* I don't have a really good idea of the role Se plays in an INTJs type. Any advice here would be great.

 

[Kianara]

Interesting definitions you've provided. For more information on the functions you might consult typelogic.

INTJ profile
INTP profile

I suppose I could say that I feel my Se inferior function in that I greatly enjoy physical sensations. Sound and touch sensations especially. I enjoy music and find different textures very interesting.

I generally don't use it much in my primary pursuits, but it's an amusing sidequest I explore often enough.

 

[kchikage]

It's true indeed that I've not develope my Fi. My friends helped me to explore more of my Fi but somehow as I grow, my Fi-developement seems to be worst. XD and suprisingly, some ppl seems to admire less develope Fi ! weird..

 

[spockguy]

Seems kinda odd to me that in your INTJ description, the judging function (Te) works prior to the perceiving function (Ni), which seems like a paradox to me no matter what type you're talking about. My take on the INTJ would be more along the lines of:
Ni: Sees future possibilities, and continuously asking "What would happen if...", but of course intuitively, without much internal sub-vocalization. INTJ's have the ability to just "know" if something will work or not within future implications, and "know" all the steps that are need to be taken.

Te: Taking what is intuitively perceived and running with it, taking all the steps needed in a very logical, orderly manner. Judging information in a very linear, procedural way which leads them to be skeptical of information that isn't in some way empirically reinforced or can't be tested; arrogant and self-confident, yet pragmatic

Put the two together, and it should be pretty clear why Keirsey calls them the "Masterminds".

Oh, and as far as Fi is concerned? Not even INFP's and ISFP's I talk to really understand how Fi works. Most confusing and elusive MBTI function, in my opinion. I think it involves detecting emotional patterns and tones (somehow) and putting them into their own little catagorization.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

they are basically the opposite genius type.

 

[XIII]

Ni Ti Fi Ne Se Fe

All strongly developed (as if they were primary). WTF?!?!?!?

I percieve almost entirely in terms of a series of future transformations-- an overarching narrative. This would seem to indicate that I am better described by the label ''INTJ''. I also have an absurdly high level of self-confidence, often assuming my right to command those around me. They tend to obey. Yet, I don't see any sign of ''Te''.

I hear that INTJ's often use Te as a barrier, because new information requires the total restructuring of their internal world. I restructucture my internal world in a simlar manner, but very rarely shut out information to preserve its integrity. Perhaps I'm a mutant INTJ without the inability to filter out information (i.e. a different function instead of Te), which would provide insight my fluidity and multiple personalities.

This leads me to a possible principle... Einstein talked of his ''retarded development'' being the cause of his genius. His apparent deficiency in some areas led to a kind of mutant compensation which involved the use of different ''functions'' in a highly unusual but highly effective way. I wonder if such applies to personality... rare deficiencies leading to rare hyper-effective compensations.

Having said that, MBTI is utterly primitive and essentially lifeless. It constitutes an elevation of a reductionist and flawed model above the infinitely complex reality to which it refers. I prefer complexity and beauty and chaos and-- INDIVIDUALS. To ''type'' somebody would be the greatest insult I could conceive of. Thus, you are all just humans to me. Your worth is in your words and actions as I percieve them, not in the label which you claim for yourself.

Kings are not made great by their heritage. Men are not made great by their superficial similarities of personality to the greats of science and art. Einstein was not an ''INTP'', he was a rare individual who arose from the small subsection of the population which best fits that lifeless description. He *AROSE* from it; he did not *DWELL* within it. French people are not all Napoleons. German people are not all Nietzsches. English people are not all Blakes. ''INTPs'' are not all great or original.

 

[Ulysses]

Your new avatar is kinky.

 

[XIII]

It is rather, isn't it?

ref. thread ''pansexuality''

 

[Kianara]

I hear that INTJ's often use Te as a barrier, because new information requires the total restructuring of their internal world. I restructucture my internal world in a simlar manner, but very rarely shut out information to preserve its integrity. Perhaps I'm a mutant INTJ without the inability to filter out information (i.e. a different function instead of Te), which would provide insight my fluidity and multiple personalities.

In a sense that's fairly accurate, that INTJs use Te as a barrier. I certainly do. Let me try to explain how my Ni and Te act in my own mind.

I am an iceburg. Most of 'me' is beneath the surface. What people see, however, and attribute with me, is usually only the tip of my iceburg, Te. It's what I use to interact with the world. It is my mask that protects me and gives me control of my outer self. It takes in information and, if it is not something I plan on truly absorbing, stores it in my 'outer' memory banks. Most people only ever see the tip of the iceburg, just my Te, and have no desire or ability to see farther.

Most of who I am is below the surface, like most of the mass of an iceburg is also below the surface; this is my Ni. While my Te has very visible and recognizable borders, even I don't know the borders of the back realms of my mind, the Ni. It just goes deeper and deeper.

When new ideas come, they initially stay in the tip of the iceburg, where they are entertained in a hotel. They're in my mind, but are not mine. I'm considering them without believing them. Some concepts don't even stay long in the hotel. If I quickly find that it's useless and nonsensical, I throw it out and just keep a record if it's time in my mind. If it's purely academic, like the crap I have to memorize for school, I move it to a separate holding area, where I don't have to be bothered by it when I'm thinking and where it is readily available for school. If an idea is something I'm seriously considering believing and holding as my own, it has to go though a complicated process I've dubbed 'The Gauntlet' before it can enter the deeper region of my mind. That's an essay for another time.

When a concept has been accepted into my Ni, it takes up residence in a small apartment and stays until it is ousted. The rigorous testing of my ideals is what gives me my confidence. I know what I know which includes who I am.

To summarize, my mind is an iceburg that's about 25% Te and 80% Ni, with a small overlapping area in the middle for transitions. (And I know that's the wrong proportions for an iceburg, whatever). I haven't figured out where Se fits into my model. Fi, as far as I can tell, sort of floats around in the mid-regions of my Ni, where my lack of maps makes it somewhat difficult to pin down.

 

[spockguy]

Great description of your inner workings, far better than what I could do, obviously.

We all generally, as humans, compartmentalize a lot of information, allowing it to float towards the surface of the water, ready to be pulled out into the open when the chance arises. As an INTP, the idea of compartmentalizing functions is interesting, because there is a lot of grey area in my life personally, and not as clear-cut as you make it sound for yourself.

I can be very spontaneous and (overly) eccentric at times, proliferating my Ne into the forefront, but most Ne comparisons and insights come internally as events occur in front of me, never to be verbalized. Seeing events for what they potentially means, and what I can derive from that new bit of information.

I spend most of my time, however, comparing bits and pieces of information with newly garnished information, trying to find comparisons, and how it all relates, Ti is a lot like waves, constantly clashing and hitting each other, breaking some down, or increasing the magnitude of other waves, while Ne is the wind, creating the movement that guides the waves.

What is interesting in my own case compared to the INTJ's that have spoken here, is that I can clearly see a place for Si and Fe in my life today. Si, for me, divides my life into comfort zones. I typically don't go out of my way to do something spontaneous that I typically don't do or am not used to. Si, when underdeveloped for an INTP, can even cause trouble, leaving an INTP's to do the same ol' shit every day, getting way to comfortable in their own boundaries, and refusing to be adventurious or go out and do something new. Si also plays a huge part of nostalgia for me, making instantaneous comparisons of my past with my environment around me, and being reminded of that past event, in terms of emotions and/or sensations, good or bad.

Fe is less clear, obviously, being the inferior of traits. When interacting on a superficial basis, I'm curdious and consider myself to be generally "nice" to people as a common rule. Please and thank you's, how are you, sorry, etc. are all common to hear from me when interacting on a purely business level. It's easy for me to not even think of peoples feelings when in a logical discussion at all, and typically is far from my mind at the time, but when I'm put in a context where it seems alright for me to take all barriers down, and focus on emotion, I can do it, albeit struggle at times. I find myself very emotionally complex, even though I completly under value my emotions far to much.

 

[Kianara]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm glad you liked my description. Interestingly enough, I was discussing my iceburg model with an ESFJ friend (I have one! Surprise!) and she had some very interesting things to say herself (we talk about MBTI a bit).

I have my iceburg model with the small tip as Te and the monstrous behemoth below the surface as Ne. She said she has the same thing, but reversed. She said that her Fe was the 80% above the surface, what people immediately see as 'her', and that the bottom 25% was Si.

With me, people see the Te and are repelled. With her, people see her 80% Fe sitting above the surface and assume that's all there is to her. Like me, she also had trouble fitting her tertiary and inferior functions into the model. I don't know how to place my Se and she can't even find her Ti. Go figure right?

It would be interesting to get other MBTI types that are self-aware and figure out how they would describe their functions.

 

[sagewolf]

Fi? I get Fi, pretty much. Fi takes personal values and sorts then into a complex hierarchy, which becomes the FP's guiding light, similar to a moral compass, but with as much nuance, complexity, and weight that Ti assigns to logical principles and concepts. It's hard to explain, but using Fi is essentially going with a decision because it feels right to you in your gut, or because you believe in the concepts and principles involved, rather than simply believing them, or believing that they are correct, both of which are more Ti. (I have trouble with Ni, though... *facepalm*)

It's interesting what you said about Te being a shield, XIII, Kia, because I often use my Ne in much the same way: it serves as a barrier to protect the internal world. I don't like sharing the ideas I've spent time thinking about to others, in general, because I've found through experience that a) they don't give a damn and b) it's hard to explain them verbally without a lot of effort on my part and a lot of patience on the other person's part. So my Ne keeps everyone else entertained with either jokes or completely off-the-wall nonsense that confuses the hell out of them and drives them away just as effectively as a serrated knife dripping with blood and a manic grin, so my Ti doesn't have to stretch itself too much. I wouldn't say that my Ne is only a minor part of my personality, or lesser than the Ti, though: just different, and used in different situations. It's more than just a shield or a facade, although it serves that purpose sometimes.