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INTJs press the "iwin" button over and over

Montresor

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and INTPs role-play to victory.


Agree or disagree?
 

Pinion

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Everyone LARPing loses.
 

Montresor

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I see the "iwin" strategy fail over and over (but not every time).

It's frustrating though. Gaming against INTJ is like playing against the computer.
 

Cavallier

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^Sure. However, I find that pointing out to them that winning no longer matters when they have no friends anymore tends to ground them a bit. Evil? Yes, but also effective. :D
 

Hadoblado

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Almost everyone is either abusing the iwin buttons, or complaining about them in the games I play.

I don't really understand what you mean by roleplay. I just experiment continuously until the underlying principles that I identify lead to some sort of insight advantage.

I don't think vsing and INTJ is like vsing a computer. Computers are either ridiculously good, or ridiculously bad.

Example of a good computer at SCII:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKVFZ28ybQs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbYd4OFrWE

Computers are predictable, but their advantage often lies in having superior process power, allowing them to do things that are impossible for humans. INTJ's are strategic thinkers, who identify strong strategies within their limited human capacities.
 

Montresor

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^Sure. However, I find that pointing out to them that winning no longer matters when they have no friends anymore tends to ground them a bit. Evil? Yes, but also effective. :D

This is a good point, and I do agree that it "grounds" them a bit.

I think this particular component is really highlighting Fi v. Fe.


I don't really understand what you mean by roleplay. I just experiment continuously until the underlying principles that I identify lead to some sort of insight advantage.


Computers are predictable, but their advantage often lies in having superior process power, allowing them to do things that are impossible for humans. INTJ's are strategic thinkers, who identify strong strategies within their limited human capacities.



So here's what I mean in CF talk:

An INTJ might envision the scenario through to the end via Ni and then identify the most efficient strategy to achieve this end with Te. They remain particularly detached from the emotional context of the game, simply choosing to win and win now. I believe they're basically wired to act this way, like a computer. Once they identify the "iwin" buttons, there is no reason left in the world to play the game any other way. They're not interested in your positive gameplay experience as much as they see you as an object of non-affection that is there to provide for their experience only. This is why they will laugh in your face after betraying you and hurting your position in the game (Fi).

Like Cav said, reminding them that they're evil bastards might help change the behaviour for a short period of time, but you will never see a personality change.



Now, the INTP on the other hand, might circumvent the computer/INTJ strategy through roleplaying. The "secret" strategy ...

I just experiment continuously until the underlying principles that I identify lead to some sort of insight advantage.

Basically, yeah, in one sense, it's about finding legitimate ways to play that were overlooked - due to their lack of immediate reward/efficiency - discarded or ignored by the Te function, and then (re-)discovered and utilized by the Ne and Ti functions.

The "insight" advantage isn't always easy to explain or quantifiable but it's the "human" (Fe) element that gives INTPs the advantage, and this is where roleplaying/imagination (Ne) comes into the picture.

INTPs will play the game like a human. They will want to play with other humans and they understand the point of playing game is for fun, for everybody. This component of the experience will likely be more important than winning, which is fun for one person, and an eventual/unavoidable outcome of the game no matter who plays what. What is avoidable, on the other hand, is anger, betrayal, hurt feelings, evil deeds, etc...... which, if they co-occur with the iwin button, will be inevitable with INTJs.



Let's use Risk and Monopoly as two examples.

The INTP sees the point of the game as colonizing/dominating the entire world/market and sees the eventual/necessary outcome of this is that all other players lose. Thus, they play the game to take over the world/economy as their primary objective.

The INTJ sees the point of the game as being the last player standing, with the world domination as the eventual/necessary outcome. Thus, they play the game with the primary objective of removing all other players.


If an INTP discovers a method of play that will result in the eventual destruction of a single player, but decides that it is not high on his priority list of global domination, he will possibly avoid that style of play in favor of something less spiteful. He will possibly redirect his resources to outer defenses, northern conquests, southern conquests, the siege of Japan, Australian conquests, the red army, Ukraine, or whatever....

Likewise, an INTP might stimulate the economy in a boring game of Monopoly where he has already foreseen his victory, by trading properties to complete the color groups of others or paying cash for properties to get another player out of a bind.


Now, on the alternative, in both cases, I am basically saying the INTJ does the opposite. They might constantly deprive a weak player of securing their first continent over and over until they eventually can't produce more than 3 armies a turn, right from the very start of the game. In fact, they might focus on it.

And as for Monopoly, they would be more likely to acquire one member of every color group and then mortgage it/effectively remove it from play, secure their own group or two and then basically shut it down/refuse to trade. What happens is the other players stockpile cash but have nowhere to spend it and it eventually winds up in his pile.


hmm, Is this roleplaying after all? Proxy?
 

Hadoblado

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It's interesting, apparently a massive number of the SCII community type as INTJ. There's likely some confounds, as these tests are usually done through forums that value strategic logical thinking, but what you describe does sound like the SCII ladder from Diamond and up.

I use win-button strategies, but only ones I've developed my self. I eventually end up borrowing the most efficient openers, but the mid-game onwards is entirely my own. I'm more than happy to refine the one strategy over a long period of time, though grow bored immediately of using someone else's brain child.
 
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