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INTJ vs. INTP; What do you think?

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So, I've always wanted to know; how do INTJ's view INTP's and how do INTP's view INTJ's? One one hand, they're so similar, and on the other, so completely different. I want to know other people's opinions on the differences of the two types, and how INTP's and INTJ's first appear to people. Please write your opinions. (Or facts).
 

Dicomedy

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It's a curious cusp to say the least. And I think INTP and INTJ personalities have the tendency to crisscross into each others' mindsets. The whole categorizing mindsets is far too black and white to begin with and I think there are plenty of characteristics that bleed into other types.

That being said, the whole "J" thing is pretty much relative to the person. For real, I do judge, but we all judge, but it's in our own ways, you know? Percieving is just passive judgment after all. The time it takes to make conclusions is the only real difference.

So in the end the real difference between the two is the fact that an INTJ will make their mind up faster than an INTP. But an INTP may never make their mind up at all, haha.

But for my real opinion regarding that simple "J". I feel that they make decisions too fast, and it often leads to embarrassment on their part, or disaster. I work with someone who is an INTJ, and all they do is make a fool of themselves or hurt themselves, I suppose it'd be okay if they grew from it, but they don't...so it just dumb. But this might be an isolated situation, haha.
 

Grayman

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So, I've always wanted to know; how do INTJ's view INTP's and how do INTP's view INTJ's? One one hand, they're so similar, and on the other, so completely different. I want to know other people's opinions on the differences of the two types, and how INTP's and INTJ's first appear to people. Please write your opinions. (Or facts).

My first idea is that they are straight foward in response. The second and more rare was that they seem to be creative in emotional stance. They can view a situation emotionally inspirational at one moment and then view that something is out to get them the next. I see neither existing in these cases but they seem to believe these ideas. I have watch a few directly assign the show of emotion toward them as an attempt to manipulate them. Perhaps they are right, but I tend to view it as communicating emotion. Perhaps some INTP do this also. I guess I don't have anything logical to give you in that respect. It seems to be more of an intuitive understanding. I cannot describe the face of someone very well but I can recognize it easily when I see it.
 

Brontosaurie

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INTJ's are "inner world" people to a greater degree. much of what goes on in them never shows. outwardly they are reluctant to display pretense, playfulness and imagination, instead opting for stability, reliability and groundedness.

if i understand correctly, INTP's come off as rather insecure and whimsical while INTJ's come off as pillars. beneath, the reverse is typically the case. we have a way of sincerely giving no fuck about that of which no fuck ought to be given. personally i have very very very solid reasons for making a fool of myself, and i've seen the same in other INTP's, mostly on this forum.
 

leeleekins

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Posted in the wrong thread <sigh> not enough caffeine...
 

Sirach2:5

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One of my favorite examples of an INTP and INTJ is Sherlock Holmes (intp) vs professor Moriarty (INTJ)

Introverted thinking and extroverted intuition for the INTP while INTJs have the opposite.

INTPs will take pieces information together and draws conclusions (Ti) then interacts with the environment to find additional possibilities (Ne) wile INTJs will Explores possibilities and finds potential (Ni) then interacts with the environment to realize those possibilities and potential (Te)

INTJs want to control and change the world while INTPs will look to adapt.

Neither will conform though.
 

PmjPmj

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Richard Dawkins Vs Christopher Hitchens is another good comparison, as best I can tell.

Dawkins likes to yap inanely, seemingly taking great pleasure in being far too verbose and somewhat pompous (INTP). Hitchens is far more direct, and eloquently - or sometimes literally - tells people to fuck off because they're inept (INTJ).
 

The Grey Man

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INTJ's are "inner world" people to a greater degree. much of what goes on in them never shows. outwardly they are reluctant to display pretense, playfulness and imagination, instead opting for stability, reliability and groundedness.

if i understand correctly, INTP's come off as rather insecure and whimsical while INTJ's come off as pillars. beneath, the reverse is typically the case. we have a way of sincerely giving no fuck about that of which no fuck ought to be given. personally i have very very very solid reasons for making a fool of myself, and i've seen the same in other INTP's, mostly on this forum.

I engage in both the INTJ and INTP behaviour you describe. Still identify strongly as an introverted thinker (probably an INTP). I guess there can be a lot of overlap in the types' attitudes.

Based in my friend the INTJ, it does seem that INTJs are more grounded and practical, but this doesn't always translate into wanting to change their surroundings. I've never really seen him at odds with his surroundings; he seems to prefer understanding and working within his situation to suit his needs over rejecting it.
 

Oddity

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How INTJs view INTPs: http://intjforum.com/archive/index.php/t-2449.html
INTPs = argue for the sake of questioning, not answering. argue details while ignoring the bigger picture or vice versa, but not both at the same time. question continually, reject the need to make a judgement statement about anything, and reject those who do as being close-minded.
INTJs = argue for the sake of answering. capable of examining the correlation between the big and small pictures. make repeated value statements and judgement calls and move forward based on the conclusion that they have reached, expecting others to respect that.
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Of course, INTJs are much kewler :cool: as we can actually make conclusions about things, rather than just debate things.
How I view INTJs: They're the kind of people who say shit like the above quoted. They also tend to have some numbfuck attitude that anyone who cares about group harmony on some level (Fe users) is a weak piece of shit. I could go on, but eh...
 

Brontosaurie

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i like you Oddity. i think your stipulation of "shit like the above quoted" has a rich meaning. if you could analyze and expand on it, that would be much appreciated.
 

nanook

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i have avoided thinking about mbti-INTJ, because the way mbti describes them appears either unrealistic or not interesting to me. watching the INTJ facebook group i didn't find any topics that resonated with me, but there was a shitload of incredibly superficial sensor talk. mbti has INTJ down as introverted entj, basically business people who are even more antisocial than regular business people. goal oriented schizoid robots. in contrast socionics portraits the NiTe type as a more kafkaesk character which is appealing to me, but i can not bring it together with the reputation of mbti INTJ or intjforum. as you may know, i'm still confused about myself and NiTeFiSe is my next best guess next to FiNeSiTe.

of the people on youtube who claim to be INTJ some came of as sensors to me, but two have made a somewhat intuitive impression on me, this guy and this girl, however they seem rather extroverted to me. then there is also this girl who is obviously introverted and most likely intuitive and this guy who is also an introvert.


other than that i have allowed pod'lair to persuade me that eric bana or christian bale or david duchovny or willem dafoe or viggo mortensen are intj (and i love all of them), but i can't really see how dustin hoffman is the same type ( he feels like a sensor to me) or joe rogan (he feels extroverted to me) and i don't like both of them. i have just noticed how kafka and robert de niro do have similarities. jeremy irons and rudolf steiner are also suspicious. at least rudolf steiner has created something that proves Ni.

i'm currently watching this video with abby martin and i'm wondering if both of them might be INTJ.

i think i know one or two INTJ in real life and i have tried to relate to them, we have identical interests (art and pig picture of society) but approach them so differently, i did not feel that communication was very efficient.
 

Mithrandir

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My experience between the two types is mostly in my family dynamic. My sister and I are INTP, and my Dad and brother are INTJ (Mom is ISFP). Nary a word was spoken when we were together, but when there were, it was usually my Dad attempting to assert his logical conclusions on the rest of us. My brother is softer, but tends to be rather inflexible in his own way. Neither of them can fully grasp the ability of my Ti-Ne, and I've never really felt inclined to assert it. Both my dad and brother view my sister and me as generally slow-witted and reckless in our lives. We both rebelled against the Te of Dad, but I'm pretty sure my brother reveled in it (though I think he eventually saw this as a flaw in our father and suppresses his toward his family).

My sister and I have very niche interests and pursuits and make a modest living in various jobs in our respective areas of art. What we do needs to be interesting, have variety, and be meaningful in a creative way. My dad and brother are more career oriented (dad is college professor and brother works in computers for a major corporation), and tend to be very reliable, predictable, and narrow in their goals. They have very few interests and hobbies outside of their work. In fact, when my dad retired, he had so few interests he started teaching classes again to fill his time. My dad and brother like to have nice things and are rather possessive of them. My sister and I are content with whatever but recognize and seek quality insofar as it serves our occupations.

My dad and brother tend to be more serious and to the point, while my sister and I tend to be more quirky and impulsive. My dad and brother tend to dress conservatively, orderly, and consistently (always well groomed), while my sister and I tend to wear more creative, hodge-podge outfits that match our mood for the day (for my sister this includes her monthly hair color).

In fact, the more I think about it, my brother is such a clone of my dad and my sister and I are so clones of each other.

My sister and I never really had many deep conversations, but it was always easy to follow the other's train of thought. It is easy for either of us to talk past my dad or brother in conversation or debate. I got along fine with my brother most of the time (he was the responsible one growing up who had the nice gaming consoles after all ;) ), but I never had a good relationship with my Dad. That being said, and though our debates can get a little heated at times on points of contention, he is capable of having insights that I never would've seen coming and he is starting to realize the power of my Ti-Ne to ferret out his internal inconsistencies (same can be said of my brother). We get along much better now than when I was young.

Do I like INTJs? They have their moments, but usually not. Their views tend to be so linear, rigid, and narrow it drives me crazy. It's clear to me they don't have the natural gift of seeing from multiple perspectives, but that seems to turn out to be useful for them in regard to their careers and wealth accumulation. I might almost be jealous if I cared about such things...

But the worst has got to be when I bring a strategy board game to play with my brother and he decimates me while half paying attention on his first time playing. Gotta respect that Ni-Te combo.
 

nanook

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They also tend to have some numbfuck attitude that anyone who cares about group harmony on some level (Fe users) is a weak piece of shit
i would expect this attitude from entp+estp and from deranged or trolling intp+istp. Ti is such a "tough ego" function, a demon of entropie. in contrast Te is a police officer like function. Fi=harmony. Te=harmony enforced by rigid law. to Te being strong is about appearing honorable and grown up.

are you confusing a concern for group harmony with a subjective concern for personal justice? like a NiFe borderliner would hope the authorities to take his side and fulfill his demands like a child that is trying to convince his parents to fufull his needs? because Te does think of borderline as being weak. Te can become a shizoid function, it's tends to become the antagonist of the borderline principle.
 

ddspada

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[...] he is capable of having insights that I never would've seen coming and he is starting to realize the power of my Ti-Ne to ferret out his internal inconsistencies (same can be said of my brother). We get along much better now than when I was young.

Do I like INTJs? They have there moments, but usually not. Their views tend to be so linear, rigid, and narrow it drives me crazy. It's clear to me they don't have the natural gift of seeing from multiple perspectives, but that seems to turn out to be useful for them in regard to their careers and wealth accumulation. I might almost be jealous if I cared about such things...

Spot on.

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I know two INTJs (both of them women, at that). Both are usually deadly accurate in their vision of what steps need to be taken to confront the future in X way. Both dress FORMALLY. Both have little tolerance for alternate ways of executing things to attain a goal unless clearly and promptly proven to be superior ways. One is studying to be an actuary, the other is studying to be an architect. Unusually enough, the architect is not cold or narrow, as many INTJs famously are. I'd say she readily accepts a basic level of eccentricity and signs of affection, but does not generate either of them. The actuary is dead cold to everybody except three or four close friends, and even with them never in public.

The "best" interactions I had with either of them involved schoolwork in groups. I could live with their approach (Do this, this and this. Got a better idea? Didn't think so.) and they with mine (That over there looks like it'll make for interesting discussion, why not incorporate it? ...what was the assignment, again?) :p but I don't see the two styles as primarily complementary, I see them as primarily competing against each other. Of course, in school assignments it's no big deal if someone tries to narrow down the scope of the work, making it a little more specific, or widen it, making it a little more fun to explore.

I know they'll probably make much more money than I in twenty or thirty years, as Philosophy is rather seldom lucrative, but I'm willing to say that the enjoyment I derive from learning, independently of my career, does and will offset almost any sum of money.
 

Mithrandir

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I know they'll probably make much more money than I in twenty or thirty years, as Philosophy is rather seldom lucrative, but I'm willing to say that the enjoyment I derive from learning, independently of my career, does and will offset almost any sum of money.
It will.

Security is not in how much wealth you accumulate, but in how well you respond when it's not there.

That can't be taken from you.
 

Hadoblado

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I get along a lot better with Te people now that I stop trying to force them to keep questioning. They want conclusions, and I can ride with their conclusions as well as my own. The only time I'll try to force them into the questioning stance is if they have said something I can disprove 'strongly' on the spot, or when I'm genuinely interested in the reasons they think the things they do. Either way they're either forced into respecting Ti, or showing off their big picture. I'm in the fortunate position of not having any agenda I need to force on them, so it's pretty clear sailing.
 
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