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Insults

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Cegorach

Charnel Horror
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
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749
#51
This is in reply to your private message as well:

- - - - - - -

The point would be, as I would have thought was pretty obvious from my reply in that thread, to encourage discussion rather than mere insults or mocking towards other members.

This forum is not for people to point out how much they dislike person "x" and mock the ways in which he acts or what he personally enjoys, but rather to directly discuss with him why they dislike him and provide logical justification for why the value judgment of that individual is logically relevant beyond the person placing the judgment, the same goes for mocking groups.
For example: "You're stupid. I don't like you" has no point in discussion, don't do it.

If racists come onto this forum and start insulting all members of alternative races, they will be banned.
If homophobics enter the forum and mock homosexuals for their sexuality, they will be banned.
If any member continues to mock other members without justification, they will be banned.​

I expect reason and purpose in light of judgment, don't make the mistake of assuming this has anything to do with preserving people's feelings; some individual will always be bothered no matter what actions are taken.
It's hardly like an Admin gets involved every time there is a conflict on this forum; members should have at least some level of proficiency at moderating themselves.
 

Moocow

Semantic Nitpicker
Joined
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#52
You are assuming that I am mocking a specific member and not a general behavior that I see pretty much everywhere, myself included.

Secondly, you are assuming that provocative posts are going to discourage discussion. If people don't want to post in a thread that offends them, they have the right to make that decision, but it doesn't mean they're going to stop posting altogether. And it definitely doesn't mean others can't make reasonable discussion of the thread.

From another angle, is there not truth to be found in the raw ways in which people react? Isn't teasing or "trolling" just an inquiry into feelings, what a polite question can not truly access?

Perhaps it would be unacceptable in real life, but on the internet where we all hide behind usernames and avatars, and have the freedom to choose where we involve ourselves, what exactly is being put at stake?

On a last thought, is font choice really comparable to sexuality or race?
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
10
#53
lol this comment is old but sooooo truuuuuuuuuue

if one thing goes against our principles, hahaha oh dear. we are very passionate when it comes to principles.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Joined
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#54
On a last thought, is font choice really comparable to sexuality or race?
Font and communication choices can be easily justified through rational argument (rather than the, "I just do it because it makes me good, and you can't tell me what to do, so screw off!" variety). This is why we have things called "style guides" in the industry -- rules that foster communication, and the breaking of said rules that typically diminishes communication in practice.

If someone wants to consistently break rules in EVERY content, without regard for their readership, it means they've got some other priority than being understood, and the implicit reader/writer contract is broken. It's self-indulgent rather than an act of service to the idea being conveyed.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Joined
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#55
I have to tell you that the amount of (personal) insults for which we had to give warnings and infractions increased significantly in the last days and weeks.
This creates just unpleasant tension and a hostile atmosphere.
And I think no one here wants to be in such a forum, right?

There is a line between being harsh or critical and just insulting.
We have members from all over the world, we come from different cultures and we all have different backgrounds. Often we are not able to estimate how other people see our postings. Experts say that 40% of the meaning in text messages get lost.

Three hints:

1. Think about how others could perceive your postings. Could you formulate it less hostile?

2. Communicate with each other. Oh, how many wars and feuds are the results of simple misunderstandings? Put your pride aside and ask "Say, did you really mean it this way?". Also, to apologize can also be an option.

3. Respect each other. Even if you really dislike someone, there is no need for being insulting.

4. Even if someone insults you, stay cool. Revenge is a wheel that spins backwards.


I wish this thread wouldn't be necessary and I wish that there will be a time where we all can laugh about this thread.
Your mom what you just said!
 
Joined
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Messages
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<ψ|x|ψ>
#56
Your mom what you just said!
The quality of your arguments has really gone downhill.

Jennywocky said:
Font and communication choices can be easily justified through rational argument (rather than the, "I just do it because it makes me good, and you can't tell me what to do, so screw off!" variety). This is why we have things called "style guides" in the industry -- rules that foster communication, and the breaking of said rules that typically diminishes communication in practice.

If someone wants to consistently break rules in EVERY content, without regard for their readership, it means they've got some other priority than being understood, and the implicit reader/writer contract is broken. It's self-indulgent rather than an act of service to the idea being conveyed.
Grammar nazi!! ;)
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Joined
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Messages
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#57
I wasn't arguing, I was insulting. They're two different things. And my insults are almost always low quality, because I hardly ever actually mean any of them.
 

Moocow

Semantic Nitpicker
Joined
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Messages
920
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Moocow
#58
Font and communication choices can be easily justified through rational argument (rather than the, "I just do it because it makes me good, and you can't tell me what to do, so screw off!" variety). This is why we have things called "style guides" in the industry -- rules that foster communication, and the breaking of said rules that typically diminishes communication in practice.

If someone wants to consistently break rules in EVERY content, without regard for their readership, it means they've got some other priority than being understood, and the implicit reader/writer contract is broken. It's self-indulgent rather than an act of service to the idea being conveyed.
I would have liked for someone to have presented their rational argument about font choice at the time if there is one. I don't recall seeing anyone that does that sort of thing try to justify it for themselves, in the cases where it has been called into question.
 

Cegorach

Charnel Horror
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Messages
749
#59
Oh and to dearest Cegorach, as tempting as it may be to preach manners and respect before closing threads... we're on a forum where I'm inclined to think those are as much subject to debate as anything else. It's a debate that I don't think your moderator powers necessarily give you the freedom to conclude.
You can debate them all you want, I simply stated an opinion on the matter and the reason for which your thread was closed based on the rights which this forum protects.
If you manage to present an argument with enough logical validity that any of the Admins agree with you enough to debate it then it will be discussed amongst them and a decision will be made.

Being an Admin means responsibility for the decisions I have the power to make, I will read debate, I may participate, and I will make every effort to refine myself towards sensible decisions, but don't think that I have no right to tell you to behave yourself according to my current understanding of what "behaving" is, that's how a forum is moderated and how conflict is resolved regardless of whether I am infallible or not; it is my capacity as an Admin and also my reponsibility.
You are assuming that I am mocking a specific member and not a general behavior that I see pretty much everywhere, myself included.

Secondly, you are assuming that provocative posts are going to discourage discussion. If people don't want to post in a thread that offends them, they have the right to make that decision, but it doesn't mean they're going to stop posting altogether. And it definitely doesn't mean others can't make reasonable discussion of the thread.
My example was reminiscent of it being directed at a specific member, but my response also concluded with "the same applies for groups", which expanded the idea beyond the example towards a broader concept.
I think you may be projecting the reasons you would do such a thing as choosing a specific font onto others, where your experience very well may not be the case.

If you're deterring people from posting then you are deterring discussion with them as well, regardless of whether it is possible discussion may pop up at some point with some random person; you were given almost an entire day to turn that into a debate thread, but continued with mocking replies to any members who asked questions or argued the concept.
Don't assume I closed it the second I became aware of it.
Moocow said:
From another angle, is there not truth to be found in the raw ways in which people react? Isn't teasing or "trolling" just an inquiry into feelings, what a polite question can not truly access?
Trolling, in the definition as I understand it, is the act of provoking an emotional response with inflammatory remarks. This appears to be exactly what you're proposing you should have the right to do, hence it could be considered exactly that, assuming this is correct.

You think you should have the right to provoke such responses and I think others should have the right to be protected from provocation, there is a familiar divide here within many areas of the web, and should you wish to take up your right to do so then it's suggested that you locate yourself elsewhere where those particular artificial "rights" are protected.
Rights are simply artificial elements of whatever community you happen to take part in.

You assume you have a right to access information by force and emotional manipulation, and despite whatever information may or may not be gained in such an action this forum is attempting an environment distinct in that it encourages logical debate. You do not have to be "nice", you can be blunt about facts, if someone asks you "do you like me?" and you don't, feel free to say so.

On the other hand, there will be no fishing for reactions or insulting just because you "feel" like it; if the point of mocking is to encourage discussion, then maybe skip directly to the discussing and cut out the superfluous variable.
Our forum members have a right to choose the information they disclose, there is no need to force anything.
Moocow said:
Perhaps it would be unacceptable in real life, but on the internet where we all hide behind usernames and avatars, and have the freedom to choose where we involve ourselves, what exactly is being put at stake?
I could care less whether it is acceptable in real life, but assuming there is reason behind the argument of what is acceptable then it should apply to all arenas that have similarly converging principles.

This doesn't mean objective morality, I consider such a concept naive, but rather that I fail to see how anonymity should make any difference in how we act towards others.
If you're implying that they have the choice to evacuate the forum if they don't like how you act then I think perhaps you may be misconstruing which of you will be the one leaving in such a situation; you have a choice to leave if you disagree with the rules.
Moocow said:
On a last thought, is font choice really comparable to sexuality or race?
No, not directly, you have to abstract the concept behind each example to understand how they relate, I was not speaking directly about font choice but rather the choice to mock instead of discuss.

Each is derived from an individual's preference and their imposition of that preference onto other individuals of a target group or groups, this preference in any of the cases provokes negative emotional responses in the target group and does not serve to create understanding between the separate parties in most cases.
The comparison is in that of preference imposition, and that without logical fundament it has no place in discussion.
Racism and sexual discrimination are considered unacceptable for that exact reason.
 

Moocow

Semantic Nitpicker
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Messages
920
Location
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#60
Very well stated. I don't actually know whether or not I agree with my own points but I thought it'd be worth discussing for that reason.

Since I advocated raw honesty earlier-
It's not common for me to actually post something mocking and bitter, but the holiday season (being around my family, probably) seems to inspire open belligerence. I'm satisfied enough by your reasoning though that I'll avoid the urge to piss anyone else off.

Also you are the most patient moderator I've ever argued with. Thanks for not outright banning me.
 

myexplodingcat

thwriterislurking
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
78
Location
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#61
I have to tell you that the amount of (personal) insults for which we had to give warnings and infractions increased significantly in the last days and weeks.
This creates just unpleasant tension and a hostile atmosphere.
And I think no one here wants to be in such a forum, right?

There is a line between being harsh or critical and just insulting.
We have members from all over the world, we come from different cultures and we all have different backgrounds. Often we are not able to estimate how other people see our postings. Experts say that 40% of the meaning in text messages get lost.

Three hints:

1. Think about how others could perceive your postings. Could you formulate it less hostile?

2. Communicate with each other. Oh, how many wars and feuds are the results of simple misunderstandings? Put your pride aside and ask "Say, did you really mean it this way?". Also, to apologize can also be an option.

3. Respect each other. Even if you really dislike someone, there is no need for being insulting.

4. Even if someone insults you, stay cool. Revenge is a wheel that spins backwards.

I wish this thread wouldn't be necessary and I wish that there will be a time where we all can laugh about this thread.
I find it oddly funny that in a forum full of INTPs, you're so busy arguing about this that you haven't actually noticed that there are not three hints, but four! :D

wondering about the validity of your INTP'ness Anthile -- Mr. I love to make and follow rules and make sure others follow them... I wonder even the point of having rules considering the personalities on this forum. Why not just throw down the hammer and ban out of nowhere? it's not like a true INTP would care to follow the "rules" in the first place, and if he/she were banned, it's not like he/she would try to find a loophole within the rules to get back in, nor argue his/her way back in... seems kind of like an unnecessary and irrelevant thing to do;

mostly because the people that would read the rules, memorize and obey them, and encourage others to follow them -- probably would not even be an INTP...

maybe you're not!? i dunno just been here for 2 days
I think you're more an ENTJ. I know a few ENTJs, and that's the behavior. No offense--you would be more likely to be a better leader than a lot of INTPS (not necessarily all, I can't speak for everyone)--but you're not an INTP.

The reason you seem to think that Anthile isn't INTP (and are implying that he's ENTJ) is because you know that you aren't and making rules is exactly the kind of thing that you like to do, and are probably good at in the right place. Anthile, however, is just saying that we should all be nice to each other. If you can't handle that, maybe you shouldn't be on the Internet at all.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
Messages
46
#62
I think the way you tell us how not to be insulting very condescending. Do you imply that we’re stupid? I demand reparation!!!!


Seriously, does an INTP insult people a lot?
I’m new here. Is it more like condescending or mean or been too frank kind of insults?


You silly feelers.
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Joined
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Messages
10,599
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#64
We only do it accidentally
or for fun sometimes.
Yes, there's a kind of cognitive pleasure in using one's wit to turn around the most perfect, exquisite insult... especially if it has more than one meaning or is so subtle the target might not even perceive it.

The thing is, it's more about the joke than it is about the person, if you get my drift.
 

Fukyo

blurb blurb
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,325
#65
I think the way you tell us how not to be insulting very condescending. Do you imply that we’re stupid? I demand reparation!!!!


Seriously, does an INTP insult people a lot?
I’m new here. Is it more like condescending or mean or been too frank kind of insults?


You silly feelers.
Dude, for fucks sake did you even look at the date this thread was started? You are completely unaware of the context in which this thread was made. So kindly get informed before you dish out irrelevant comments.
 
Joined
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Messages
46
#66
Woaw you surely take things seriously.
Last post was from the 2nd-February-2011.


My first sentences were ironic. It was my mistake to assume it was implied. And for that I apologize.


Then I became serious and ask if INTP often insults people. (Because I’ve almost never insulted someone when I meant it)


And then again, it was so obvious for me that I don’t mean silly feelers here that I haven’t made it clear.


I’ve only been here for about one day. And I’m not used to write in English. Be nice.

Just too be clear, if I get informed first, can I dish out irrelevant comments? (Now I am trolling)
 

Fukyo

blurb blurb
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
4,325
#67
The thread was made in 2009.

We were having a serious troll socket puppeting infestation which plunged most of the forum into hysteria and paranoia. People were being hostile to anyone mildly suspicious.

Besides that there are other types here than INTPs, and the only aim of this thread is encouraging a civil atmosphere in the community, not being dictatorial and "keeping the INTPs down".

I don't intend to be a bitch, it's just very irritating seeing people just plop out of nowhere with their presumptions comments about a situation they don't know anything about.
 
Joined
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Messages
139
#69
I don't intend to be a bitch, it's just very irritating seeing people just plop out of nowhere with their presumptions comments about a situation they don't know anything about.
How old this thread may be.
I'm happy to see someone who thinks that way too.
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Los Angeles, California
#70
I am new here, I don't know why one get warnings and infractions, or banned:confused:...

Freedom of speach, at least, shouldn't deprive others from freedom of speach:angel:...

10 Commandments are not censorship, just inumerated prohibitions for humanity:

As a protectorate of brotherhood of 7 stars:angel:, do not betray us;
Do not plagiarize:angel:;

As human rights observation by brotherhood of 7 stars;
Do not kill:angel:;
Do not steal:angel:;
and so on...
 

Jennywocky

guud languager
Joined
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Messages
10,599
Location
Charn
#71
Necro thread back on the loose... for the second or third time. *doh*

Someone grab the stake!
 

Kuu

Galactic God-Emperor
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
3,375
Location
The sea of stars
#73
Bump for great justice. Perhaps someone might read it this way?
 
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