INFPs: type yourself correctly or go home.

[Grayman]

I don't believe this.
I doubt any INFPs who hang out on this forum so easily have their buttons pushed, and if they already weren't embracing the type, why would this thread have any impact on them from the start in helping them embrace the type? The whole thread was misguided and ineffective from the start, it was little more than a vent... resulting in people playing around in the thread. That's all this is: Play time.

1) The fact that someone has thick skin does not mean that it is okay to be ignorant to how they may feel.
2) The INFP that i am worried about, changing their mind, are not the ones who have been here a long time.

i think attaching an emotional state to rb's post was far more than warranted. It just made you sound like you were immersed in an emotional state of your own.

... wait, did I respond to all that? I still don't believe this!

Your reasoning is not sound. You just attached an emotional state to my post as well. Does that make you sound as if you had an emotional connection to my post? Regardless of your reasoning, I do think your intuition of my feelings is correct.

i do not deny that Redbarons constant personal attacks and disregard for my posts, disrespect in general, have left me a view of him being rather arragont and having a general disregard of peoples feelings in a way that is most unacceptable. I do think it a mistake to think that because someone is feeling emotion that they are being unreasonable but I am trying to examine fault in my logic and all I can see is him continuing the path of disregard and disrespect of others and their views, and possibly due to ignorance. Is my own view skewed because of my initial encounters with redbaron?... perhaps but it will still do him good to reaxamine his approach as much as it might do me good to examine my view and reactions to Redbaron.


Jenny, I do appreciate you correcting me even though I cannot find enough evidence that I am incorrect in this, it is good to continue to search for it. I am trying to keep an open mind, but I still think Redbaron's approach needs much improvement.

 

[Jennywocky]

Your reasoning is not sound. You just attached an emotional state to my post as well.

WTF dude?

Rubber meets road: Show me where I attached an emotional state to your post. I said:

I think attaching an emotional state to rb's post was far more than warranted. It just made you sound like you were immersed in an emotional state of your own.

Did I attach an emotional state to your post? Show me where. I never did. I was very clear on what I was assuming and what I was stating, and never said you were ANYTHING... just how I perceived it. It commented NOT AT ALL on your actual emotional state, it did not assert you were feeling anything.

MEANWHILE, you specifically said to Redbaron the following:

No reason to drag him through the mud anymore just because you're upset.

See that? You attached a specific emotional state to his post. You specifically assumed and directly stated he was upset.

Anyway, I'm frustrated (<-- emotional state, yes!) and have better ways to spend my time than hashing out the obvious. See ya.

 

[Grayman]

WTF dude?

Rubber meets road: Show me where I attached an emotional state to your post. I said:



Did I attach an emotional state to your post? Show me where. I never did. I was very clear on what I was assuming and what I was stating, and never said you were ANYTHING... just how I perceived it. It commented NOT AT ALL on your actual emotional state, it did not assert you were feeling anything.

MEANWHILE, you specifically said to Redbaron the following:



See that? You attached a specific emotional state to his post. You specifically assumed and directly stated he was upset.

Anyway, I'm frustrated (<-- emotional state, yes!) and have better ways to spend my time than hashing out the obvious. See ya.

Yes, I think I am splitting hairs and likely as a result of me becoming defensive so I apologize.

I determined that Redbaron was upset out of a gut feeling. Right or not I don't really know if he is upset so you are right.

 

[NoID10ts]

Well now I'm upset!

 

[Grayman]

Well now I'm upset!

I was thinking of making a poster for schools. It would show some of our greatest threads and then this one.

It would say...

INTP
IMAGE

INTP ON Fi
IMAGE

I DARE YOU TO SAY NO TOO FEELINGS

 

[redbaron]

I hate that I can't hate INFPs. They're just so fucking cuddly that no matter how hard I will myself to focus on their flaws and only their flaws, it just doesn't work.

Unlike other types that are really easy to hate. I like that about them. Especially ENTPs. They talk so much, there's always more things to hate about them. And even if they don't say anything you hate, you can just hate them for talking at all.

But how do you hate someone that rarely talks, and when they do rainbows and kittens fly out of their mouths?

 

[Grayman]

I have kittens coming out of my mouth too!

Spoiler

 

[not]

MBTI is new to me. It says that I'm an INTP. But to be honest, I think that there is a problem with the testing mechanism. Whenever I come across a question to determine T vs F, my brain wants to make both answers correct. Since you can't select both I go into this 'does-not-compute' meltdown and I wake up from the Matrix. Fucking hate that protein goop shit so I get Cypher to put me back in...

 

[Cherry Cola]

Well it probably means that regardless of whether you're an INTP or not you know that both emotions and logic need to be considered in decision making. Which I dare say is a sign of maturity.

If you back in time and think about what you might've answered earlier in your life when your tertiary and inferior functions weren't as developed that might reveal your natural inclination, and thus your type.

 

[ZenRaiden]

YOU CAN NOT TYPE OTHER PEOPLE OVER THE INTERNET USING JUST THEIR POSTS as reference points. Especially not concerning art or anything artsi fartcy.
I like art and I like it more than most people that I know. I know I am most likely INTP, but I do not think anyone can tell that from my posts. My posts are neutral concerning content.

Feelers can be pretty neutral too on internet. Just, because they are rational and want to talk in sensible way does not mean they can not wrap the ideas all into emotions, but its a waste of time on some forums.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Okay, who's that directed at? Edit: nm mixed you up with the OP zen :P fail.

 

[BigApplePi]

I hate that I can't hate INFPs. They're just so fucking cuddly that no matter how hard I will myself to focus on their flaws and only their flaws, it just doesn't work.

Have you thought of trying harder? Get your feelings to support you. Stop all that thimking.

Unlike other types that are really easy to hate. I like that about them. Especially ENTPs. They talk so much, there's always more things to hate about them. And even if they don't say anything you hate, you can just hate them for talking at all.

Now yer onto something.

But how do you hate someone that rarely talks, and when they do rainbows and kittens fly out of their mouths?

Anything can be learned even if it isn't right.

 

[not]

I personally enjoy the company of a person who can have Rainbows and Kittens come out of their mouths...

Cherry Cola, it will forever be a mystery because I refused to be tested when younger. I really think that the tests can go too far... Case in point, almost every cookie cutter corporate employer uses some variant of a personality test to select employees. My experience is that these tests are always created by sensors looking to weed out anyone that does not process information as a sensor. I constantly have to pretend that I am a sensor to get the job and then hate myself once I get the job. (If I didn't sometimes need cash, the test would be an effective deterrent.) - These corporate tests are so blatantly obvious that I score a near perfect score by manipulation. When I took the test to work at Pizza Hut, they wanted to make me a manager based on my scores... An example of what you can do in The Matrix once you are self aware.

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

I hate that I can't hate INFPs. They're just so fucking cuddly that no matter how hard I will myself to focus on their flaws and only their flaws, it just doesn't work.

Unlike other types that are really easy to hate. I like that about them. Especially ENTPs. They talk so much, there's always more things to hate about them. And even if they don't say anything you hate, you can just hate them for talking at all.

But how do you hate someone that rarely talks, and when they do rainbows and kittens fly out of their mouths?

Inferior Fe? Or you secretly love to wallow in emotions.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Inferior Fe? Or you secretly love to wallow in emotions.

what was secret about that

tho

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

what was secret about that

tho

Ok, I 'outed' no one...so all that's left to do is
http://ncrenegade.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Pig-Mud-Wallow-to-Make-Romans-Jealous.jpg

 

[redbaron]

Not sure if people here are cereal. I would have thought people could recognize Tzar Chasm when they see him.

 

[Arzailich]

but we are in fact a rare species

No.

 

[Jennywocky]

YOU CAN NOT TYPE OTHER PEOPLE OVER THE INTERNET USING JUST THEIR POSTS as reference points. Especially not concerning art or anything artsi fartcy.

Of course not, silly.

That is why I usually burn some candles, wave a few chickens in the air, and have my tarot cards handy.

 

[not]

Are you renting out space in your twisted halls of broken minds? I find it strangely comforting there. (Though I admit, that I sometimes don't 'get' it.)

 

[Jennywocky]

Are you renting out space in your twisted halls of broken minds? I find it strangely comforting there. (Though I admit, that I sometimes don't 'get' it.)

There's always a little more room for cray-cray in here, insanity is what makes the world go 'round.

most people don't rent, though.... they're just squatters.

 

[Latte]

YOU CAN NOT TYPE OTHER PEOPLE OVER THE INTERNET USING JUST THEIR POSTS as reference points. Especially not concerning art or anything artsi fartcy.
I like art and I like it more than most people that I know. I know I am most likely INTP, but I do not think anyone can tell that from my posts. My posts are neutral concerning content.

Feelers can be pretty neutral too on internet. Just, because they are rational and want to talk in sensible way does not mean they can not wrap the ideas all into emotions, but its a waste of time on some forums.

While people do make claims based on ideas of correlation of surface traits and behavior in ways that are prone to error, there's no valid reason to assert it's impossible to come to conclusions in manners that are accurate.

¤ This is going to be an oversimplification and it will take some time for the reasoning to become properly clear.

If one accepts that people's cognition are different based on their cognitive preferences and that this difference effects what cognitive format's perspective they synthesize an overall view of reality in (this is a central thing in MBTI), then one accepts that people contextualize in different mental formats.

This again leads to the implication that when these formats are mapped onto a verbal plane for communication, the parameters of the cognitive structure of the formats from where it is mapped will by implication restrict the way in which what is to be represented can be represented because it is a representation of what is being thought about what is being talked about rather than what is being talked about.

Something that skews this and complicates it is habitual or consciously initiated adaptation from some formats to other formats (formats not directly used for construction and modification of internal reality synthesis) before it is verbalized so that it may better be understood by an audience or for some other purpose, but it only adds an additional layer and the original one will still have its parameters imposed in how it is presented in the second and through the second, the third (verbal).

Thus, theoretically, there seems to be no hard barrier in the way of there being noticeable patterns to identify the main parameters and thus the main cognition ingredients of formats of reality synthesis from the way in which someone presents thought through word.

For this to be applied to distinguishing between the 16 types of MBTI, there needs to be cognition method differences between them in significant enough ways to manifest as observable strong and rather unambiguously interpretable patterns in verbal communication, but if one believes MBTI has merit anywhere within miles of what it purports to have, one should probably believe this.

One could also say that language is too limited for the manifestation of patterns indicating the parameters of the cognitive space in which someone synthesizes its reality, but a quick glance at the immense non-culturally-dependent lack of uniformity in the way people express themselves even when in agreement about something will immediately dispel that train of thought through intuition.

 

[not]

There's always a little more room for cray-cray in here, insanity is what makes the world go 'round.

most people don't rent, though.... they're just squatters.

Good to know, cuz I'd probably never pay the rent anyway, problems with authority and all...

@ Latte

If you were forced to sum up your thoughts on the matter in 3 sentences or less, is it possible?

 

[Jennywocky]

What I got out of it:

1. If one believes MBTI to have any authenticity, then one also necessarily believes there are distinct, relevant, and observable thinking differences between the determined types.

2. Discernible thinking differences lead to discernible communication differences, although they won't be exact images of each other due to forced adaptation from one mindset to another.

3. The argument that language is too limiting doesn't seem to hold up considering the huge diversity in expression and communication that occurs even among those who share similar ideas.

From my perspective, though, there's still an issue between true type and expedient type: We each play roles (depending on context and need) in each group we are part of. How do we distinguish among those things, especially when we have only one dimension of observation and experience, with no way to triangulate? I assume that people (1) want to accurately grasp each other and (2) are trying to make the effort and (3) continue to fail miserably.

To state that there are notable distinctions in communication even if they don't map one to one to the online format is not rocket science, but the issue is how to properly understand the mapping so as to have an accurate real-life understanding of someone you've only met online and with only the medium of text to perceive them by. Where's the lexicon? No one can define it. Mistakes abound.

For me, I try to observe the patterns in and foundations of the speech, not the speech itself; but there are still assumptions involved, adding noise to any read.

 

[not]

Cool. Thanks for being my Latte translator.

 

[Jennywocky]

Cool. Thanks for being my Latte translator.

Hopefully he'll correct me if I was off on something, but... hey, it's what I do for a living. (Turning "programmer speak" into "user language" and vice versa.)

 

[not]

I could see why that would be a useful and lucrative business to be in.

 

[Jennywocky]

I could see why that would be a useful and lucrative business to be in.

The only issue is getting people to read the documentation.

Actually, we program to written spec, so no one has a choice -- they have to read the requirements.

 

[not]

I think that I would be an awesome programmer if I could get passed the overwhelming feeling I get when I try to sit down and learn it. - Yet I have the same overwhelming feeling when I sit down to write fiction... </derail>

 

[Pinion]

Impossible. If there were that many whiny INFPs here this forum would have a dozen 8-page threads of me arguing with them.

 

[crippli]

I take it, there are not many here who where active on GlobalChatter(an old INFP forum). For what it's worth, this place feels different then that place.

 

[Reluctantly]

It's strange that people who are emotionally unstable or borderline (BPD) get pegged as INFPs. Personality types aren't supposed to be inherently pathological. Anyone in emotional turmoil has the potential to be emo.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Imma a INFP.

 

[Jennywocky]

I take it, there are not many here who where active on GlobalChatter(an old INFP forum). For what it's worth, this place feels different then that place.

I don't know if it was the same place, it might have been INFPglobalchatter or something. I think I lasted for about 30 posts before I just had to get out of there, the whole place was incoherent. (And I do have a few close INFP friends I spend one-on-one time with, so it's not necessarily the type.)

What I mean is that I found it really difficult to have a thread conversation with multiple posters because everyone's basis/framework of rationality seemed different.

 

[PmjPmj]

Way back when, it was the tsunami of feels that made me recoil in horror / realise I wasn't an INFP (which according to the very first MBTI test I took, I was). To onlookers, I stood out like a sore thumb among the gaggle of INFPs; I was always telling them to lighten up and stop being such mopey bastards.

Caring individual that I am.

 

[Jennywocky]

... I was always telling them to lighten up and stop being such mopey bastards. Caring individual that I am.

I'm sure it was highly effective too.

 

[Grayman]

I'm sure it was highly effective too.

It is funny how people ingnore things even if you shove it in their face so that it is undeniable. If anything they just want to resist it more. So I just shove it harder. That will fix it!

 

[PmjPmj]

I'm sure it was highly effective too.

About as effective as a chocolate fireguard, as I'm sure you can imagine.

 

[Jennywocky]

About as effective as a chocolate fireguard, as I'm sure you can imagine.

ummm... did you say something?

[bimgx=150]http://www.mystoryexists.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/chocolate_face_girl.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[PmjPmj]

Nothing of consequence, as per usual

 

[Reluctantly]

Way back when, it was the tsunami of feels that made me recoil in horror / realise I wasn't an INFP (which according to the very first MBTI test I took, I was). To onlookers, I stood out like a sore thumb among the gaggle of INFPs; I was always telling them to lighten up and stop being such mopey bastards.

Caring individual that I am.

strange,
So how are you a caring individual, if your first instinct is to be repulsed by what you consider INFPs? and then your reaction to this instinct seems to be to tell them to behave in a way that you approve of?



If anything, it sounds like you had some kind of problem with them. That doesn't exactly paint you as a caring person to me.

 

[Reluctantly]

Imma a INFP.

lol

 

[PmjPmj]

strange,
So how are you a caring individual, if your first instinct is to be repulsed by what you consider INFPs? and then your reaction to this instinct seems to be to tell them to behave in a way that you approve of?



If anything, it sounds like you had some kind of problem with them. That doesn't exactly paint you as a caring person to me.

*WHOOSH!*

^ The sound my sarcasm made as it went straight over your head.

 

[Reluctantly]

real cute, real cute,

you sound very self-aware and intelligent,

 

[PmjPmj]

As it happens, I am both intelligent and self-aware to a reasonable degree; certainly, there is much room for improvement. I am fairly happy with my progress so far, however.

I apologise if your misinterpretation of my comments hit you right in your feels.

 

[Brontosaurie]

*WHOOSH!*

^ The sound my sarcasm made as it went straight over your head.

no, no; it's called:

"^ Oops I made a bad joke, sorry about that"

 

[PmjPmj]

You may perceive it as such if you wish

 

[Brontosaurie]

but it would be my mere feeble non-INFJ perception

what if Reluctantly is sarcasming you back? that's always a possibility. it's all one big joke anyway.

 

[PmjPmj]

That did cross my mind.

Also, these threads are huge. It takes me about 50 minutes* to scroll to the bottom.



*mild exaggeration.

 

[Brontosaurie]

yes it did cross, but that was a mere feeble non-INTP crossing

we have special detectors and dynamic reticular density to accommodate for various object sizes, allowing any material to halt and rest comfortably in our cerebral domain