• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

I am an INTP, but I want to be an INTJ

Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
I am a medical doctor of 32 years, with great interest for medical research (physiology, pathophysiology, experimental surgery) but with the dream since childhood to take care of clinical activity.


My psychological profile is almost identical to the one described here, http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html , with the exception that I'm not interested at all in photography.

In addition, in childhood I have had several injuries because my family has a lot of problems (my mother probably suffers from a personality disorder and my father is an introvert with a tendency to drown the existential distress in tobacco and alcohol).


For almost half my life I have dysthymia and had at least 5 episodes of major depression lasting at least 3 months ........ at least 3 of these episodes were related to frustration and the strong sense of misunderstandingin both school and university and in the workplace.

Psychological Traumas in childhood have made me a person extremely sensitive to the pain of people and probably the activity of assistance to the sick gives me even more satisfaction of scientific speculation. In fact I have felt for some time to be an INFP.

The only way I can find to explain my way of approaching the other is to repeat any part of the psychological profile of a fictional character, Michael Schonfield, star of Prison Break
Due to a feeling of abandonment and abuse during childhood, Michael has absolutely no sense of self-worth. [...] this has made him become very attuned to all the suffering around him. As a result of being unable to block out other people's suffering, he is extremely empathetic and altruistic towards other people's emotions; he is more concerned with other people's welfare than his own".

But I red that this character reflects the characteristics of the INTJ type.


My character can stop me from making a career in academia, although teaching hospitals are the only place where I can find a realization both personal and intellectual. This happens not because I can not deal with patients or do not have the ability to heal, but the simple fact that in competitive environments can not emerge, and in an area such as surgery, the competition more often means putting at risk patients' health.

I can not do the research that interests me because I need at least another 5-8 years of training for the U.S. Standard and 10-15 years for those in Europe, because without this training is impossible to have the expertise to do the work for which I studied all my life (cardiothoracic surgery) and the skills to be able to do applied research to humans.

I know I'm able to do this job better than the average fellow, my hands are still, my creativity allows me to find original solutions to extremely complex problems, my P and T allows me to provide most of the complication and my N allows me to understand the cause of unexplained problems. I know it well and I had repeatedly confirmed both in this work and in life. But understanding the problems and solve problems are two different things, especially when the problems they can not be resolve alone, but it must be done in groups, as in hospital medicine.

Several university professors and the best doctors I know have said the same thing.

I was able to understand clinical problems as simple student and young residents that only the most famous professors in Europe are risks to solve ......... but every time I could not make myself understood by my colleagues, my consultants or patients.

Even in the family happens to me the same thing.

Even in the family happens to me the same thing.


Just like school, I was the only one who invents a new solution to the problems of geometry when no one else we could with traditional methods, but despite this, my average results were mediocre.


2 times in two different hospitals my character took me to get sick because of bullying and mobbing, that are typical of clinical surgery. The economic crisis has made sure that even in Europe the quality of training has become a conquest and not a right, and know how to behave with colleagues and be understood by own superiors has become essential for anyone who wants to become my career.

My problem as a surgeon is not the concentration, character, technical or hands, but the competition between colleagues in an unfair system in which no one wants others to learn, in order to advance their own careers.

In addition, my difficulty in learning standards related to the simple routine makes it difficult for me to get myself noticed by my superiors, although they know that I understand the problems that they themselves are struggling to cope.


If I was an INTJ my life would be easier but I do not know whether I can change.

I ask you advice as to whether there is any connection with similar problems and especially for advice on how to develop my Se, Te, Fi ...... for me it is not enough to be able to solve problems, I need to learn to be more confident to force myself to others when I know I have probably right (and not only when I am sure to be right) and above all I have to learn to know myself looking around to see when someone fights against me in secret or simply when I am going to be totally misunderstood.

Furthermore, I can not remain detached when living with emotional conflicts with work colleagues or family.


My work is my life and I will not again see people die because I am not able to make it clear to colleagues that I am right!!!!!..............furthermore increased security would help me to avoid my depression applicant.

Help me !!!!!!!
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,180
---
Location
Anaheim, CA
No, it is not possible to become an INTJ, but who cares? It does not matter.

You don't need to be an INTJ to do what you want to do. develop yourself, develop your ability to connect with people, develop your ability to articulate and direct others.

I don't know if you really are an INTP or not, but that is not important, whatever you are already came built with the potential to accomplish anything you actually set your mind to and put in the work to accomplish. There is no type that is inherently superior to other types, they all must develop themselves just like you.

Whatever you are, know yourself, love yourself, and ultimately master yourself.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,828
---
Location
California, USA
Couldn't have said it better myself, although it may be a bit idealistic.

You can't change who you are, just do your best to make it a habit of becoming aware of your weak spots so you can focus on them when needed.
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
No, it is not possible to become an INTJ, but who cares? It does not matter.

You don't need to be an INTJ to do what you want to do. develop yourself, develop your ability to connect with people, develop your ability to articulate and direct others.

I don't know if you really are an INTP or not, but that is not important, whatever you are already came built with the potential to accomplish anything you actually set your mind to and put in the work to accomplish. There is no type that is inherently superior to other types, they all must develop themselves just like you.

Whatever you are, know yourself, love yourself, and ultimately master yourself.

....How can I do it?
O tryd it all my livem but every 5 years i get the same problems.

I know, that i have a Si, Te and Fi but i can't do it or i dont know how i can develop it.

I am been already a Mastermind too, but only for small time and only when thre was Emergency and no other was able to solve important Problems.

The Problem is that i can do it, but i need the total control of me to do it.

My job ist wonder stresful and my responsability are enourmus. I believe a lot in my deonthology, but there are no meny people like me in my area.........

The S type character of the mayority of colleagues does not allow the majority of people to understand how dangerous is superficiality in a job like mine and how a similar system could lead to the collapse of modern medicine at the expense of patients' health.

I have to learn very quickly to avoid collapse in the defects of my psychological profile whenever I'm under emotional stress and are not under stress intellectual, if I want to avoid getting sick again or if I want to avoid changing jobs.
 

Adymus

Banned
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
2,180
---
Location
Anaheim, CA
You cannot develop yourself until you know yourself, and with all due respect, I don't believe you do just yet.

For starters, I think you need to find out what type you actually are. I would not be at all surprised if you turned out to not be an INTP. This is crucial, you must know what you are working with in order to be able to use it properly. And the fact that you think you are an INTP who uses Te and Fe demonstrates to me that you don't know what the hell you are doing, no offense.
Planning your day or making a schedule does not mean you have conscious use of Te, it doesn't work that way.

After finding out what type you are, you need to learn your patterns, how you gain and spend energy, so you can maximize this process. No matter what type you are, your dominant function will be the source of your energy, this is going to be your strongest rout to accessing all of your other functions.

From there, it just takes practice, but it is key that you access your other functions from the source, attempting to use lower functions directly will only lead to a poor and inefficient use of those functions.
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
I redid the test this evening: the percentage change over the years but the result does not change.

Estroverso +----+----+----+----+----+----+-|66%--+----+----+----+ Introverso (S)+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---|78%-+----+(N)
(T)+----+----+----+----+42%|----+----+----+----+----+----+Sentimento (F) (J)+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+| 63% ----+----+----+(P)

I use usualy Ne, Ti, Si, Fe, I' like to learn to use absolutly Se. in the background I would like to improve somewhat as Te and Fi but first of all Se.

I can't stop my procrastination now.

I must learn not to scare me with endless possibilities variables that can predict and I must learn how to take firm or at least I must learn to be able to show emotionally firmness that I have rationally.

Furthermore, I must absolutely learn to observe things around me, even when not the center of my theoretical speculation.

Ten years ago my profile was the same but the percentage of I was over 85 % and may P was 82%.

I have been working on me and my character but the results are very small.
 

DesertSmeagle

Banned
Local time
Yesterday 9:53 PM
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
603
---
Location
central ny
I wish I knew who I was.. Yes, I'm an intp... But what am I? I feel like some kinda of different species. life seems so hard, when it clearly shouldn't. I don't get abused, I'm not poor, I'm good at all kinds of shit...why am I like this.... It's soo hard just to get up in the morning... Fuck.. I think I'm on the verge of some weird mental breakthrough.. I feel fukin weird right now, I'm so tired. How do people have so much energy to socialize and do good at school and everything.. Is this depression or is it something more? Why am I polluting this forum on this fine night ? This entering into the fall season is so.... Euphoric.. I think I am becoming one with nature.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,828
---
Location
California, USA
I redid the test this evening: the percentage change over the years but the result does not change.

I use usualy Ne, Ti, Si, Fe, I' like to learn to use absolutly Se. in the background I would like to improve somewhat as Te and Fi but first of all Se.

I can't stop my procrastination now.

I must learn not to scare me with endless possibilities variables that can predict and I must learn how to take firm or at least I must learn to be able to show emotionally firmness that I have rationally.

Furthermore, I must absolutely learn to observe things around me, even when not the center of my theoretical speculation.

Ten years ago my profile was the same but the percentage of I was over 85 % and may P was 82%.

I have been working on me and my character but the results are very small.
You cannot magically change who you are. You must immerse yourself in areas that you have trouble in. Face your weakness head on, acknowledge, apply, accomplish and repeat. There is no "once and you are done", it is an ongoing dedication to self-improvement.
 

knightofni

gary busey shat on my lawn
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
26
---
You cannot magically change who you are. You must immerse yourself in areas that you have trouble in. Face your weakness head on, acknowledge, apply, accomplish and repeat. There is no "once and you are done", it is an ongoing dedication to self-improvement.

well said.
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
You cannot magically change who you are. You must immerse yourself in areas that you have trouble in. Face your weakness head on, acknowledge, apply, accomplish and repeat. There is no "once and you are done", it is an ongoing dedication to self-improvement.

I know it, but I cannot undestand how I can practical grow up......
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
That's the result of onother test


Fe=4
Fi=1
Ne=7
Ni=5
Se=0
Si=5
Te=4
Ti=22

is it so clearer if i have a problen or How can I iprove it?
 

hazelbite

intj
Local time
Yesterday 8:53 PM
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
15
---
i'm an intj, being intj isn't any better than being intp. they are just slightly different.

you wouldn't want to loose that awesome extroverted intuiton, would you? no, of course not.
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
i'm an intj, being intj isn't any better than being intp. they are just slightly different.

you wouldn't want to loose that awesome extroverted intuiton, would you? no, of course not.

I just want to be confident in making decisions, the ability to make you understand, pragmatism and the determination that you have .......


Would you like to be able systematically to predict problems and never resolve them because you can not convince anyone that you are right?

Would you like to hear you say continuously "you were right" by friends and relatives who have had problems which were advised by you, when your only intent was to prevent the suffering of someone who you loved?

Would you like to be able during adolescence, studying simple high school books,, to draw the same conclusion tha were reached from the greatest philosophers and scientists of history or simply to intuit concepts to PhD in physics, mathematics, psychology and human physiology when your procrastination, the endless amount of options that you can evaluate and imagine prevent you from achieving better academic results than those achieved by people with low IQs, or keep you from making axioms sufficiently simple and linear be comprehensible not only to academics who have studied the arguments for life you're talking about?

Would you like to be able by read simple informative book to consider findings that the most famous international research groups published in Nature and Lancet when your determination is so little and your ability to be understood prevent you from carrying out simple searches magazine with a very low impact factor or simply make you unable to convince lenders that what you propose could be genuinely revolutionary ....... after a while and then see it published by someone else in the New England Journal of Medicine?

Theoretical physics fascinates me very much but I am not a Physicist but physician, and I need at least another 20 years to make this work well and independently, without help of others.


My character keeps me from the time to do my job well. to see people die or get worse when I had expected and I could prevent it, because I can not make myself understood by my colleagues. I feel bad. All this makes me suffer.

if Einstein had not explained the photoelectric effect, probably the world still wonder if he was a great physicist or a visionary like Nostradamus
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Local time
Today 9:53 AM
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
1,857
---
Location
th
i think u just gotta get some Ts in that bitch.. hahah or maybe some extroversion as well. but really, get some Es and get some Ts..

Infact. Look at where u are uncomfortable and fuck around with it. I am trying to do that as well. If you can't talk to people (for myself), then try to get drunk and just talk or something.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Local time
Yesterday 6:53 PM
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,828
---
Location
California, USA
Why don't you talk this over with your colleagues and superiors and your family? Tell them your strengths and your weakness, and get them to understand the problems you are having.
 
Local time
Today 3:53 AM
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
11
---
Location
Germany
Why don't you talk this over with your colleagues and superiors and your family? Tell them your strengths and your weakness, and get them to understand the problems you are having.

with my family I tried all my life with the only result of my increasing frustration, (I think they are all SF or NF) while at work is impossible to talk about similar topics. To say that a surgeon has trouble with stress is to say that the pilot of the boyng 747 is blind. But my problem is not manage intellectual stress, rational stress, but emotionally stress, or rather I have difficulty in managing emotional conflicts.

Solve problems relaxes me and makes me feel good, so the questions are more difficult, than I become more calm, although I can not stop until I find an explanation that satisfies me. My hands are frozen at any time of day or night and when I know that life or death of a person depend only on me in an emergency or operating room than it helps me to keep self control .........

but what makes me feel bad, what made me sick every time both at home and at work, are the emotional conflicts. There were quarrels in the family every day, my mother was always either violent or crying all the day (Freud would say hysteria), my father tried to calm things but could not and then he smoked up to being sick or drunk.


At work, my problem is rather the contrast "my career" / "I do the best for the patient" or "I'm right and I shows it" / "quarrel with colleagues and friends"

Today I found a copy of MBIT test I did in 2000 at the service of my university counceling, the result I = 37 N = 33 T = 19 P = 19, raw scores were
E = 4, I = 22, S = 5, N = 21, T = 14, F = 4, J = 10, P = 19.




I opened this post because I thought my problem was an awareness in my abilities, but after having studied and thought about myself for 4 weeks and after reading your forum for hours and several articles on the internet I realized that the problem lies elsewhere. I think it's the inability to be detached during emotional conflicts. I can be a strategist and if it does not involve emotional conflicts with others are a mastermind, but every time my feelings or feelings of another are at stake my sympathy destroys me. I can not help but put myself in other people, imagining what I would try if I were in their situation, are unable to prevent myself to find a solution that makes everyone happy.

This ability makes me feel loved to critically ill patients and their families.

when I can bring relief to someone I feel much better, sometimes I even feel good

In Europe, the health system is different than in the U.S., but the economic crisis has led to several changes copied from the American system. The result is that Europe got all the typical problems of American health care system without their merits, but with all the added difficulties of a universal public health system ..... at least for the residents.

Patients are subdivisions among physicians based on the degree of difficulty and the severity of the disease and not according to the type of health insurance. Moreover, in many European countries there is not a true training program that the institutions are obliged to enforce all residents.

This means that those who want to learn the trade very often has to fight with colleagues (= emotional conflicts).

Whenever there are interpersonal emotional conflicts are not resolved and continue accumulating so much stress that I get sick or are forced to let go of my I, my T and my P, locking myself in, by giving precedence to procrastination and watching for hours PC monitor, or reading for hours, or walking back and forth for hours trying to solve scientific or philosophical theory that distract me from my feelings.

I do not know how to solve the problem. Am I the only INTP who has problems like this? If not, how did you solve it?







 

Words

Only 1 1-F.
Local time
Today 4:53 AM
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
3,222
---
Location
Order
I opened this post because I thought my problem was an awareness in my abilities, but after having studied and thought about myself for 4 weeks and after reading your forum for hours and several articles on the internet I realized that the problem lies elsewhere. I think it's the inability to be detached during emotional conflicts. I can be a strategist and if it does not involve emotional conflicts with others are a mastermind, but every time my feelings or feelings of another are at stake my sympathy destroys me. I can not help but put myself in other people, imagining what I would try if I were in their situation, are unable to prevent myself to find a solution that makes everyone happy.

This ability makes me feel loved to critically ill patients and their families.

when I can bring relief to someone I feel much better, sometimes I even feel good
Why are you so sure?


I do not know how to solve the problem. Am I the only INTP who has problems like this? If not, how did you solve it?








There is no problem. I don't see it.
 

Aphasia

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today 10:53 AM
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
502
---
Location
Who wants to know?
@drmacchius:
Competition is easier to accept if you realise it is not an act of aggression or abrasion. I've worked with my best friends in direct competition. Whatever you want in life, other people are going to want too. Believe in yourself enough to accept the idea that you have an equal right to it.

-Diane Sawyer
If you really want what you want, fight. You may not want to hurt your coworkers, but remember that they're not glass dolls. They're alive and have faced problems just like you and should be able to accept it reasonably well if they lose to you (and if you're not a prick about it). And if they can't handle it, too bad. Your responsibility is to do your best for your patients after all.
 

Bird

Banned
Local time
Today 5:53 AM
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
1,175
---
Be happy with who you are.
 

dark

Bring this savage back home.
Local time
Yesterday 9:53 PM
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
901
---
I think I understand what you are saying, but I don't experience this, at a young age I learned to become emotionally detached. From what I understand INTP's are not very good with emotions, so most of us, again I am assuming, become detached to the emotional world, and try to logically answer responses to emotions. This has worked in almost all manners except maybe one or two where I absolutely need to be emotional and I always fail to be emotional. Every girl I have dated has eventually just left me for this cause here, saying, "you don't seem interesting in me, you never show any emotion on how you feel." That is the truth, every relationship I have been in has ended like that. So for your medical case, this would/should work perfect, since emotions are foreign to us. Emotions cannot be logically dealt with, but we can substitute logic for most emotions, so, when things arrise that you feel will tax you emotionally, begin thinking of them logically, don't try to be someone who you are not, like others have said, embrace yourself. Anyhow good luck, and when you find yourself, you should find everything will be easy, I think. [You know except dealing with emotions, because we are all or nothing with those.]
 
Top Bottom