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how to deal with more intelligent people?

WALKYRIA

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Hi
So, here i go... What happens when intelligent people meet seemingly more intelligent/gifted/skilled/achiever people? Isn't that threatening?

I mean, They used to tell me I was the intelligent boy, now in my current competitive environnement (school,..etc), INTp forums,..Etc There are just plenty of gifted smartasses who top all the tests, and the result of that is that I don't feel as special anymore. In a sense I feel that they aren't as smarter, maybe they achieve better? At the end of day the result is the same... they get more reward then I do.
The problem is that INTP need to feel special, need to feel different and need no competition. In our mind( Ti) we simply are the best.


So how do you deal with the exposure of seemingly more skilled(perhps meeting or be in an environnement of better programmers while you thought you were the best out there) ? Should I quit the competitive environnement and be somewhere where I would be able to be the best? I feel like I will be restless untill i become eminent lol..
 

ProxyAmenRa

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I am surrounded by people more intelligent than I. They're generally double my age. It does not bother me for I don't have a desire to feel special or unique.
 

defghi

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I stopped thinking I was the best a long time ago... but being around people who are better just motivates me and shows me how far I have to go to reach eminence. Use that restlessness as energy to improve, not as an excuse to quit.
 

Hadoblado

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If you need to feel the smartest, and you are in fact not the smartest, you need to reassess your priorities.

Being the most intelligent around is a subjective trait that changes from room to room. There is nothing particularly meaningful about it. Address the reason why you need to be the smartest, and you'll likely no longer find yourself so conflicted.
 

WALKYRIA

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I am surrounded by people more intelligent than I. They're generally double my age. It does not bother me for I don't have a desire to feel special or unique.

I like intelligent people but when they are from a different niche, speciality, on the forum or from different ages(i like old and young people). In a professional setting, I like to be in a team-working environnement with loads of bright people. It excites me and stimulates me a lot becoz I learn a lot and am not judged.
BUt, when someone challenges me in my speciality I just don't like that, actually I even tend to not respond to it. Therefore, I could almost quit job and change speciality. I want to be viewed as world class in what I'm doing, whatever the job.
Actually, I've spotted a common trend with INTPs; we just plain hate competition(because bear with it self a grading).. Perhaps the best way to be relaxed as INTPs is to create own speciality or own discipline or be a creative "genius" ? My guess is that it's the only way to be cool with one self because there will be always better than us at something.
 

Hadoblado

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I think that's an over-generalisation. You may not like competition, but surely you can see how it can be of benefit to both you and society? Challenges to your authority should be expected, and welcomed. If you can't handle skepticism, your high opinion of yourself might be more of a bias than a reflection of reality?
 

HDINTP

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When intelligent people meet more intelligent/gifted/skilled/achiever people it can cause problems. I think that they often (even before they meet more gifted) are afraid of that happening? Wasn’t that your case? Because as you said they do not feel/are not special anymore. Which reminds me that those gifted were once praised for being gifted not for hard work and so once things do not come that easily to them anymore they think that they are not intelligent enough to get it. While in the same time those who had to work harder from earlier come to the conclusion they have to work even harder. This is something gifted people have to learn the hard way.

Trust me. I know what you are talking about. Same story. They used to tell me I was the intelligent boy. However in my current competitive enviroment I would not say that there are plenty of gifted smartasses even if they top nearly all the tests. I ended up studying what I am apathetic to. Are you at university? Of course they do get more reward than you do simply put because they are mice that do what they are told or obedient dogs if you want to. Or do you really think that they have it easy coming to them? In that case you are probably not motivated enough? And because you were not used to put in enough effort you have „difficulties“ now. That is the reason I think you have more natural intelligence in my opinion.

So if you want an advice from then I came to conclusion I would maybe become an autodidact. Or do you think it is going to be necessary to get an academic degree? Well in fact it will. Sorry for using IQ now but just to get an idea of what I am talking about. Today in this society a person with an IQ of 100 with a degree has got better position to get a job than a person with an IQ of 200 without a degree be it whatever. Plus I believe that it is just a skill and easily trainable up to 160. So how do I deal with more skilled people? I am happy that I am not surrounded by idiots. Plus it was rare when I met someone who was able to keep up with me and in the same time it bothered me that they do achieve more usually because I did not want to achieve more and I am still young. How old are you? So I think that you should not end competitive environment unless you want to become an autodidact and for example have a farm. If you have already completed high school then it really depends on what you want to do? I know people who became very successful without an university degree? Next thing that I would say is “Do see yourself as a victim”. You are like an athlete without proper training. And that you are not the best right now in this competitive environment you talk about does not mean you are not able to be. Actually if you find yourself to be gifted there is high probability you can do what you want and have virtually no limitations.
So you do have enough talent now it all depends on your dedication, determination and hard work. You have what it takes to become the best in your field. For an inspiration no one expected him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer to achieve as much as he did. You have to understand who you really are and express yourself. Since I understood this I live a carefree and beautiful life. Do not give up on your goals.



Hope it helps in some way.
 

Architect

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Seek out the people smarter than you; it'll rub off. Oftentimes the important lessons you learn aren't so much particular things (theories, ideas or facts) but you pick up on their attitudes and methodologies.

The generalization of this rule is to seek out people who are different from you. For example, I don't learn much from intelligent people anymore but rather younger ones in different circumstances. So I get involved in these kids from startup companies which is a different perspective from mine.
 

Cherry Cola

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Yes to above. Drink ink the different people the you've examined and found effective. Spot the the ways in which they are effective, learn those. You don't need to take it too far and examine effectiveness in heroin addicts when they really need a kick, your own dreams, your loved ones, drunks and idiots. But beggars are worth having figured, different cultures to.

Now what does that say about more intelligent people? To me they are like virgin blood to vampires or something. Learn their ways, it feels good to have them in your skill set.

Those that aren't are more of a long term figuring out and examining thing, something that should come naturally, or as in the case of heroin addicts and the like, not quite worth examining at all, except from the safe distance to reality of, say perhaps: a computer screen.
 

ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε

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I'm not sure whether or not I have ever met and/or communicated with anyone exceptionally intelligent in real life. I imagine that I would take the opportunity to try to learn from them. It would be like how I try to learn from the people of this forum, except not over the internet.
 

Brontosaurie

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their intelligence doesn't matter because it's not as reductively holistic as my own. they have overlooked a critical perspective. mundane conditioned skills are unimportant. there's always some excuse.
 

Amagi82

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When I run into people more intelligent than I am, in an area I care about, I make friends with them. They have been found worthy. If you think about the many flavors of intelligence, almost everyone is more intelligent in you in some area (very few people have lower kinetic intelligence than I do, for instance). Usually, I'll try to learn from anyone I meet, about whatever it is they are better at than me.
 

Etheri

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their intelligence doesn't matter because it's not as reductively holistic as my own. they have overlooked a critical perspective. mundane conditioned skills are unimportant. there's always some excuse.
Whenever I feel misanthropic, I come up with reasons as to why these intelligent people around me can be so terribly stupid sometimes...

And deep inside, many of these reasons hold valuable truths, but most of all I'm just fooling myself.

Usually, I'll try to learn from anyone I meet, about whatever it is they are better at than me.
This summarises the entire thread. If you find someone better than you at something, try to learn from them. And it can honestly be the silliest things.

I enjoy being near happy, cheerful people as their happiness wears off on me. In a way, I believe you can learn to be happy from happier people, as you can learn other things.

While it's usually easier to learn from people which are more intelligent, you can definitely learn from people who seem less intelligent than you too. Often these people view problems from a diffrent standpoint, leading to more challenging problems to try and solve.
 

kvothe27

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The problem with feeling special is that it never lasts unless you're delusional or narcissistic. There's always going to be someone more talented at something than you at anything at some point in your life.

Try not to integrate such things into your self-concept and you'll be free. If you integrate such things into your identity, you may find a sense of shame limiting you from befriending people who could help you grow and learn.

The best way to deal with this is by distancing yourself from your limiting self-concept, identity, or ego by realizing your identity is illusory. You can do this via some form of meditation. This is a lot of work.
 

BigApplePi

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So how do you deal with the exposure of seemingly more skilled(perhps meeting or be in an environnement of better programmers while you thought you were the best out there) ?
Same way you deal with anyone. Just about everyone you deal with is smarter than you in SOME way just as you are likely to be smarter than they are in some way. This includes children. You just have to look for it.

Feeling competitive is different. You are after the same thing. Expand your wishes. What about cooperation? Maybe I don't get your circumstances.
 

GodOfOrder

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I find things that I just like, regardless of who may skill or knowledge in that area. In all fields in which I invest time, there will probably be another person who has invested more time and thus has more knowledge or skill. I measure myself by my level of proficiency, not by other's opinions about me. I am driven in all areas to achieve my minimum standard of proficiency; if i can't then I suck at it, if i can then I am good at it. However once i reach this level, I tend to move on to the next thing.

Since my goal it proficiency, the opinions of others only matter as far as they are helpful. My goals are personal, and my value is not sought in these other people, but in my personal ability. For instance, I measure my skill as a musician by the level of pieces I can play, and am still working to achieve my minimum goal. However in that case, my minimum goal is sufficiently higher than most people's maximum and I will be working for a long time. My value there is not determined by people, but by an obsession with Bach. Once I can satisfactorily play the chaconne I shall be at piece (yes, that error was on purpose).

The skill of others does not bother me. If anything it serves as inspiration to work harder. They offer me opportunities to learn, not to make me feel small or insignificant. Some of them may have a natural ability, while others may have simply worked hard, either way it doesn't matter. All that matters is me in relation to the me of the past, present, and future. It is measurable, and can be observed over time. I am trapped in a joyous state of solipsism. The world exists for me because my senses and my mind form my picture of phenomenal reality. As a result, I only have the capacity to accurately know myself. The rest I have no chance of fully comprehending. So my sense of self-worth can only be internal, not external.
 

Synthetix

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When I'm dealing with someone I view as more intelligent, I talk less and listen more. It can be a humbling experience.
 

Peripheral Visionary

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I didn't consider myself smart until I started hanging out with smart people. They were just more interesting. Then someone told me I was smart, too. I was surprised.

I think if you are considered outstanding in a way that distinguishes you from others, your ego gets tied up in that self-image. Your sense of self gets upended when someone else comes along and threatens to steal that spotlight.
 

Polaris

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I find highly intelligent people need to be heard and understood, or their heads will possibly explode.

For example, my older brother is much more intelligent than me. I tend to sit and listen a lot as he's one of these incessantly chatting, walking encyclopedias, but only in very specialised areas. He's a technology-nerd, I'm a concepts/systems-nerd, so I can take an interest in his technological systems ramblings as long as I've made sure I've understood the terms. I have to interrupt to ask many questions because he just assumes that everyone knows what he knows; he gets a little annoyed at the interruptions, but is usually patient as he knows he needs to do this in order to get the feedback he desires.

So 90% of the time I will be listening to him.

Then he will stop suddenly and nail me with a very arresting kind of look, and ask what I think.

In which case, I've had plenty of time to filter out and reflect on all the information I consider essential, so I will give some sort of brief synthesis/analysis.

He usually ends up just sitting there staring at me with a degree of bafflement....I think he's not used to people keeping up with his pace, let alone take an interest in his very narrow fields of expertise.

Growing up with this kind of dominant one-way sibling dynamic and competition has made me prone seeking out the company of people I regard as brighter than myself generally in life, I am used to the intellectual stimulation it provides and get bored if I can't get it.

Interestingly, my brother will now be asking me for opinions/advice about certain things, I think he actually values my rather left-field ruminations...
 

Mia

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I would take every opportunity to learn from them. Plus the competitive vibe you feel will keep you on your toes.
 

Trebuchet

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It isn't a question of how intelligent they are, but of how they act. A know-it-all, whether they are smarter or not, is unwelcome. Someone who enjoys knowing, learning, and sharing is very welcome, again whether they are smarter or not.
 

Hawkeye

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Drop on your knees, kiss their hand and pray there's a place for you in their world domination scheme. :)

Dropping all competitiveness is fine so long as you are motivated to get things done. Competition gives people the drive to perform better. Taking it too seriously however can have dire consequences on the ego.

If you want to be special at something pick something that is so off on a tangent, few people would spend hours honing their skills on it. Something like balancing an empty bottle on the end of your finger, flipping it 360 degrees in the air and catching it on the same finger for example. - I can do this although I think it's purely trivial and not really difficult to learn. I don't know anyone that can do this with the same finesse though (they obviously exist) :D

know-it-alls are fine so long as they are right. When they're wrong, it's all the more amusing when they are proven so. Other than that, the unwelcome attitude towards know-it-alls sounds like egotistical defensive nonsense.
 

Yellë

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I'm usually a bit envious at first, but then I try to learn from them or simply study them.
The way intelligence works is fascinating, different people are good in different things, so if you really want to be the smartest around you should learn from who's better than you and just become better than them.
 

Ferd Berfel

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So, here i go... What happens when intelligent people meet seemingly more intelligent/gifted/skilled/achiever people? Isn't that threatening?

I mean, They used to tell me I was the intelligent boy, now in my current competitive environnement (school,..etc), INTp forums,..Etc There are just plenty of gifted smartasses who top all the tests, and the result of that is that I don't feel as special...
The key here is the first sentence of your second paragraph:

... They used to tell me I was the intelligent boy
You'd find this article interesting:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/our-gender-ourselves/201208/the-key-raising-confident-kids-stop-complimenting-them

I experienced the same thing you're describing when I was a bit younger. As a child, I was constantly praised as "gifted", "intelligent", etc. etc. Before long, my identity became wrapped up in those labels. I was the smart dude, the intelligent guy that everyone knew was smart. The challenge came when I would interact with people that were obviously more intelligent than I am. I took it as initially very threatening, after all, I was the smart guy, and now there's this smarter person that's making me look like an idiot. It was very threatening to my sense of identity; I didn't like it. Initially, I hated people that were more intelligent than I was, simply because they threatened my sense of personal identity.

The revolution came for me when I realized that no one in real life cares about how intelligent you think you are. Most of them also do not care one lick about your self-esteem. Furthermore, just because you're around someone that is more intelligent than you, that doesn't mean that everyone assumes that you're an idiot. It doesn't make you any different than you were before.

Furthermore, there will always be someone smarter than you in every area of life. There is always an opportunity to learn new information; don't take the presence of a more intelligent or skilled person as a threat, treat it as a learning opportunity. This is the proper way to "deal with" more intelligent people, as you put it.
 

Happy

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There's nothing that brightens my day more than encountering someone I can learn from. Okay maybe one thing - someone encountering me and learning from me. It's a nice little cycle. There's no point in avoiding (or 'dealing with') intelligent people. They should be embraced.

Competition can be good, but from what I've observed, the most competitive people are the ones that resist criticism (constructive or not), rarely benefiting from others. They're also the most high strung. I don't mean to be egotistical in saying this, but I also find that I outperform them most of the time. I think the key to competitiveness is in the little victories and learning from the defeats.
 

Pyropyro

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I enjoy being with people more intelligent in other aspects of life because they have something I crave - Data.

I could spend much time studying and listening to them until I see the pattern that made them really good at what they do. Then I modify said pattern and apply it to my own life.
 

WALKYRIA

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Actually sorry, I didnt it put it well; but the people I am talking about are very intelligent(more than me in a certain way since intelligence is multifaceted, it's just that I accept my "cognitive shortcomings".)... but intelligent in a very sensorlike way(I have nothing against them though !)... It's about a qualitativaly different intelligence that I'm talking about. The one that frustrates you if you are a complete Intuitive.

Sequential, detail orientated, orderly, down on earth, traditional, linear, this kind of intelligence, common sensical, social intelligence, ...Etc. It seems that my intellectual environnement doesn't make place for creativity at all.(or maybe not enough for me!)
Altough I have learned a lot from sensors, and became somewhat organized, hardworker and learned all the important stuffs with them.
I used to join philosophy clubs until last year though.

Top sensors can be very intelligent, but in a very sequential, linear way I think. While we INTP are more of a crazy holistic people, who don't care for details unless it's relevant. It can oftentimes be a clash don't you think so?
 

Montresor

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The funny thing about Se-doms (ahem, ESFP) is when they go on what I like to call "intuitive runaways" where they totally imagine an entire scenario that is/has happened and begin to panic over it, when it's really nothing. Like seeing a cop and then figuring he's after you, then the whole world is an emergency ("ditch the beer man! hide the weed! we're getting searched, OMG OMG"). Watching it happen while remaining calm is hi-larious friend!


So just because he can show you how to unlock the miter saw and apply a Class II or III lever in a real situation doesn't really make him "more intelligent".

Sensory intelligence came first, it must have. It can be learned. The trouble is that S-types have strength in numbers. Be at peace, let them have the few skills they have.
 

John_Mann

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Seek out the people smarter than you; it'll rub off. Oftentimes the important lessons you learn aren't so much particular things (theories, ideas or facts) but you pick up on their attitudes and methodologies.
So true.
 

walfin

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Seek out the people smarter than you; it'll rub off. Oftentimes the important lessons you learn aren't so much particular things (theories, ideas or facts) but you pick up on their attitudes and methodologies.

The generalization of this rule is to seek out people who are different from you. For example, I don't learn much from intelligent people anymore but rather younger ones in different circumstances. So I get involved in these kids from startup companies which is a different perspective from mine.
This.

And, never forget, they may be smart, but you could always be lucky.
 

Pyropyro

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There's nothing that brightens my day more than encountering someone I can learn from. Okay maybe one thing - someone encountering me and learning from me. It's a nice little cycle. There's no point in avoiding (or 'dealing with') intelligent people. They should be embraced.
So very true, I enjoy an exchange of info more than anything. That's why Focus group discussions and brainstorming sessions revitalizes me :)

Competition can be good, but from what I've observed, the most competitive people are the ones that resist criticism (constructive or not), rarely benefiting from others. They're also the most high strung. I don't mean to be egotistical in saying this, but I also find that I outperform them most of the time. I think the key to competitiveness is in the little victories and learning from the defeats.
Well I'm a bit resistant to criticisms but after the negative emotions wore off, I stop and study said criticisms and form countermeasures against them.
 

Happy

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Well I'm a bit resistant to criticisms but after the negative emotions wore off, I stop and study said criticisms and form countermeasures against them.
This is good. Criticism has its immediate effects, but the ability to bounce back is most important. I think the negative emotions are good. I was once criticised so hard, I completely fell apart. I bounced back and it became a huge character building exercise for me. It will never happen again.

Its the resistance to change that is bad. You form countermeasures. That is good.
 

Tuevon

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I find it easier to deal with if they keep to themselves. If they go around boasting it, then I get upset.

The best solution, I have found is specialization. Be particularly good at one or a few things. You'll stand out better that way.
 

Kuu

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Abandon competition. Embrace cooperation.
 

fatti

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I spent 15 years in construction and always felt the smartest as I was surrounded by brick layers, concreters, landscapers, etc. Then I moved into IT and that fell to pieces very quickly. Now im 40 and im being overtaken by those younger than me.

Ive convinced myself its not becuase they are smarter than me but because they are more focused. They chose a career at the end of high school that they were interested in and stuck with it ever since. Im 23 years past high school and I still dont know what I want to me when I grow up (which I still havent done yet).

Of course im probably just delusional and its because they are smarter than me. :confused:
 

Analyzer

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I rather be open minded with no absolute attachment to a particular subjective judgment then intelligent, while still being sane.
 

fatti

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I rather be open minded with no absolute attachment to a particular subjective judgment then intelligent, while still being sane.

Agreed. What gets me into the most trouble is I will listen to and agree with the most logical argument while my wife will disagree with anything someone puts forward if they are a b!tch, which is totally illogical to me.

Fairly sure shes not INTP. :D
 

Montresor

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^I find people get into trouble when they assess what they presume to be "most logical" without considering a wider range of details and circumstances.

Then again, I'm not INTP either.

It might be illogical to refute somebody's argument based solely on how they are acting, but it's NOT REASONABLE to expect somebody to stay open minded and receptive in the face of ... bitchiness.
 

h0bby1

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there is a proverb saying that it's better to be last among smart people, than the first among dumb people =)

but generally, when some kind of performance or contest is involved, i generally i find i perform better when i focus on doing the thing, rather than focusing on the score, it's generally not that productive to think in term of score or being paranoiac about performance all the time while you perform something
 

Valentas

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h0bby1, you are spot on. I think it is a terrible burden we put on when we compare ourselves with other people. It results in growing anxiety(my example is: how will I cope with and compete with people in university who has already programmed since 13 years old?) Then I start to think that it is dumb to make comparisons. When you think about it, Bill Gates is smart man but even he could not write stuff in BASIC in college and after it if he did not program for several years before. Also, not many people had access to computer terminal in that time. In other words, Bill was fortunate to be able to practice and was naturally curious about how stuff work. That resulted in his success.

I was hard on myself when I could not grasp something fast but then I experienced a remarkable revelation: programming is like math - it's not a race. If you skip something, that nitty gritty detail will cause problems in the future. This is why I stopped thinking about all the clever people who has done it already and instead focus more on fundamentals and general problem solving. It does not pay to see reward if I push myself hard because it results in burnout and total inability to reason clearly. Instead focusing on one thing and doing it slowly with 100% comprehension may prove right approach.

It's like a fable about turtle and a hare. Hare was exhausted after running fast and had to take a break and hey! the turtle surpassed him. I will take turtle approach.
 

h0bby1

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stress mannagement is always huge concern, as well for mannager and employee, a little stress is ok, too much stress is very bad, need to remain at safe level of stress, otherwise it become counter productive or even potentially dangerous for health and balance of the person

it's really hard to know who will be the next genius, it's what make genius a genius because they think in way that are unpredictible, we don't really know how to really spot genius or how to make new ones, i have met some very successfull people who didn't even have much diploma, but had the good idea at the good time, or other who have very good grade, high iq, or something, but will not be that much creative or having that much revolutionary ideas at the good moment, there is always some part of luck in any success story =)

even steve job, nobody was believing in his concept of personal computer in his surrounding, he mostly made it on his own, in cave eating mostly apples, and nobody would have told this guy will be successfull before he actually made it, need not to put that much importance into all stuff of contest and profile and all, they don't always mean that much in the absolute =)
 

Valentas

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Architect mentioned that it's a better game for an INTP to try and produce something new than compete with other people for some market share. I guess it's true. Idea! Where are you? :}
 

h0bby1

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i think i sort of like competition, but even when i'm in competition, i mostly focus on the objective, and i get the result i get, if anything i try to learn the lesson of what mistake i did, and how i can improve what i did to do better the next time

but it's also true competition often bring it's lot of rush, and bad practice, in order to win a contest on some stupid criteria, if the criteria and contest are really well planned it can be good, but sometime it doesn't always help to have the truly best solution out the process of competition, because people will only focus on one aspect of the thing, and will lack global insight and global view of what is actually being done

the market competition is often dumb, it's more a matter of dirty tricks, marketting, communication, and buisness relation, rather than about quality of the product, it's not always the best thing that make the more monney =) market and buisness is a whole domain in itself, unfortunatly it's true nowdays it's more buisness guy who lead things, but it doesn't always lead to the best result from a technical point of view =)
 

h0bby1

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it's like a thing i have read from bergier, he is a sort of general intelectual know it all, he wrote something about what he saw as being 'super man' quality, the first thing he pointed out is that it need to have very solid nervous system, to be very stress resillant, to have good hormonal and emotional balance, to be able to forge strong determination, all stress, fear, emotions, will always disturb determination, and hinder lot of achieving capacity

even if someone is very smart, but is very sensitive to stress or emotion, he is mostly likely not to be very able to achieve a lot of things, compared to people who have good emotional balance, and solid nervous system, it always allow for more solid determination and achievement, not to be side tracked by critics, or emotions, stress or other things
 
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