• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • See https://www.intpforum.com/threads/upgrade-at-10-am-gmt.27631/

How much smarter would you be if you went to library and read....

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
... instead of going to the school you went to.
I think in my case Id be a freaking genius at this point. I mean I went to library only few times in my life, mainly because I had many books at home and I always had something cooler to do than visit a library.
 

Cognisant

Prolific Member
Local time
Today, 02:51
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
8,449
I was that nerdy kid that got picked on in school despite being nearly the tallest guy in my class so I spent all lunchtime every lunchtime in the library reading.

And I still turned out a dumbass :D

Reading a book is like taking a peak into someone's mind, it won't make you smarter but their thoughts will inform your thoughts and possibly make you wiser, i.e. reading and instruction manual won't make you good at using something but it might prevent you doing something stupid with it.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
I don’t think you learn anything from just reading at the library. Now, if instead someone gave you a problem to solve and told you they’re gonna kill your pet hamster if you don’t solve it - now that’s a path to success
 

lightfire

Active Member
Local time
Today, 08:51
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
353
I used to read books in the library and im also a dumbass.
 

Siouxsie

Redshirt
Local time
Today, 09:51
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
24
I´d be an asshole, an arrogant asshole...
but... maybe it would have been better? considering my current social incompetence
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
Are you guys serious about this? I mean libraries have some of the most awesome gems of intellectual efforts of human kind. Are you guys telling me you cant learn much there or something? I mean I spent one year going to a library during free time and I learned ten times more in few hours than I did in years sitting in class room. I think you guys just didnt find the section with the right books.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
Now, if instead someone gave you a problem to solve and told you they’re gonna kill your pet hamster if you don’t solve it - now that’s a path to success
This sort of thing you say, it really really sounds like you are implying that there are no textbooks with problems in libraries. There aint a better place to look for textbooks than libraries. Secondly if thats not what you mean imagine you could be in a library for 6 hours straight 5 days a week. You could nerd the shit out of any book you like and easily acquire more knowledge than you could have ever done in a school. School is really just dummy version of library education. Instead of solving and reading shit that you are interested you are forced to go through the motion of whatever subject they throw at you. Chances of kids liking the school curriculum are very slim. I mean I remember one time I was really into beer and lo behold there was a whole encyclopedia of beers. There was even a whole book on Japanese beer.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
You’re kinda assuming that just because you have time and a bunch of books, that’s a recipe for acquiring skills and knowledge. That’s unrealistic in my view. In order to learn you need to know what to look for, you need someone pointing out mistakes and flaws in thinking and execution, you need others to put you under pressure to solve problems - problems that might look irrelevant or impossible to solve from your own point of view. In my experience, 99% of self-taught people - even people who have gone through higher education and have a reasonable understanding of the learning process in general - suck big time. They typically lack a deeper understanding of core principles because they have only gathered bits and pieces here and there and didn’t have masters who could tell them what’s important and not.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
Local time
Today, 23:21
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
5,480
The internet exists. Libraries are clumsy by comparison.

Stuff like this does help, but there are diminishing returns. You're also not guaranteed to spend your time productively.

School also doesn't really stop you if you're not invested in it. I used to read books under my desk during class - you have a lot of extra time if you're only doing the minimum required. I think you should stop pretending it's that big of an obstacle.

You're only there for how many hours a day?

What you want is a diverse education, and school is handy for providing that.
 

Pizzabeak

Banned
Local time
Today, 06:51
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Messages
2,668
Here’s a question you can’t and won’t ask: is it better to read a book in chronological order from page one to the end in hopes of a spoiler alert? Or is it okay to flip through the pages, read a chapter ahead here and there, or skip to just parts someone recommended? While unlikely it’s even possible the author put jokes in the book so that not reading it in chronological order is best, or that he possibly wrote later chapters first instead of the first chapter appearing in the published work actually having been written first.
I always thought it was best to go at your own pace, although if enough time passed you’re likely to have been informed of the story in some facet, so it’ll be spoiled in some respect.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
You’re kinda assuming that just because you have time and a bunch of books, that’s a recipe for acquiring skills and knowledge. That’s unrealistic in my view. In order to learn you need to know what to look for, you need someone pointing out mistakes and flaws in thinking and execution, you need others to put you under pressure to solve problems - problems that might look irrelevant or impossible to solve from your own point of view. In my experience, 99% of self-taught people - even people who have gone through higher education and have a reasonable understanding of the learning process in general - suck big time. They typically lack a deeper understanding of core principles because they have only gathered bits and pieces here and there and didn’t have masters who could tell them what’s important and not.
Honestly my school wasnt that great. It sounds like you had miles better school experience and I know people who liked school. So I dont want to discount that, but I had very opposite experience.
I mean we had "masters" telling us what to learn and all, but that didnt aid me any major way. I agree some guidance helps, but on more important note even if you study random books and just learn whatever if you do it right your bout to know more than from school. I mean I didnt learn anything from school. I could write probably a 10 page file on what I actually know and remember from school. Lots of years of "learning". NOt much worth remembered or learned.
I mean most people who I know who have just elementary school education know basically nothing at all. When it comes to high schools the people are generally little more capable, but most of highschool graduates are dumb as fuck minus the few nerds and mensa guys and straight A students. All those are great minority anyway and generally others just dont know shit.

That said I often had a laugh when I knew something the teacher didnt know, and it happend more often than it should. I know teachers arent supposed to be knowitalls, but daaamn.

I think my point is if you learn something you are genuinly interested in you are likelier to learn it. I remember the days when kids could name any pokémon they saw. Yet that same kid could not name a single historical figure from textbook. Its psychology. We tend to remember and learn better when we are engaged in something and the concept of school is to force people into learning shit they dont like and test them on it which is stressful and generally makes most students hate school with great passion.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
The internet exists. Libraries are clumsy by comparison.

Stuff like this does help, but there are diminishing returns. You're also not guaranteed to spend your time productively.

School also doesn't really stop you if you're not invested in it. I used to read books under my desk during class - you have a lot of extra time if you're only doing the minimum required. I think you should stop pretending it's that big of an obstacle.

You're only there for how many hours a day?

What you want is a diverse education, and school is handy for providing that.
I quit school long time ago. Didnt like it, but I am looking back and dont think it was worth it. Just saying.
Libraries are clumsy, but a university library we had was filled with shit you wouldnt even find on internet. I know everyone is trying to google everything and get the cutting edge knowledge on stuff, but then again sometimes older books are much better written.
+ if you have the know how most people dont care where you got it from. Whether it was at a desk in school or under the desk or outside of school.

I also wonder what you mean by diversity...
 

lolzcry

burnin'
Local time
Today, 19:21
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
69
well to me it appears that school is a necessity till pre-teens just to get the basics done(because there is no way you will be able teach yourself at this point) but it is essentially way too inefficent so I would say that the best way would be to study on your own while in school and leave it as soon as you have some topics you are absolutely fascinated by. Attaining knowledge requires a lot of discipline which is impossible without motivation and at the very least school does provide knowledge to people who are not interested as they will not be doing much otherwise. Honestly, it is far more practical to study on your own as long as you know what you are looking for.
 

Tenacity

More than methods to the madness
Local time
Today, 09:51
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
65
The internet exists. Libraries are clumsy by comparison.

Stuff like this does help, but there are diminishing returns. You're also not guaranteed to spend your time productively.

School also doesn't really stop you if you're not invested in it. I used to read books under my desk during class - you have a lot of extra time if you're only doing the minimum required. I think you should stop pretending it's that big of an obstacle.

You're only there for how many hours a day?

What you want is a diverse education, and school is handy for providing that.
I quit school long time ago. Didnt like it, but I am looking back and dont think it was worth it. Just saying.
Libraries are clumsy, but a university library we had was filled with shit you wouldnt even find on internet. I know everyone is trying to google everything and get the cutting edge knowledge on stuff, but then again sometimes older books are much better written.
+ if you have the know how most people dont care where you got it from. Whether it was at a desk in school or under the desk or outside of school.

I also wonder what you mean by diversity...
I quit school too, by the way (a selective college). Wasn't worth it for me either ultimately from the perspective of -time- as I got a merit scholarship and wouldn't have had to pay for college. I applied for jobs and worked full time instead.

I think libraries are excellent for getting rid of the distractions that come with the internet, or filling in the gaps that the internet cannot. The internet is saturated with quick opinions rather than in-depth knowledge these days, for the most part, unless you pay for the books/research. Even Google Scholars in itself is technically monetized and not essentially a public good the way a library is.

That said, whether or not you would come out smarter most likely depends on the level of exploratory ability you have or your attention for longer reads. I can only really speak for myself in that instance and I think if I had avoided school altogether to instead be told "Hey, did you know you can choose to go to the library for X hours/day instead of going to traditional school?", I would choose the library over school in a heartbeat.

I also imagine the library + internet is a combination that fares better than most of traditional education, which is out-dated. The prices for college have gone up drastically for an education system that has lagged far behind the technological and economical requirements of today.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
well to me it appears that school is a necessity till pre-teens just to get the basics done(because there is no way you will be able teach yourself at this point) but it is essentially way too inefficent so I would say that the best way would be to study on your own while in school and leave it as soon as you have some topics you are absolutely fascinated by. Attaining knowledge requires a lot of discipline which is impossible without motivation and at the very least school does provide knowledge to people who are not interested as they will not be doing much otherwise. Honestly, it is far more practical to study on your own as long as you know what you are looking for.
All kids are naturally curious, but kids usually stick to things they like, which mostly are things they find fascinating which are in turn things they usually like and those are usually things they can best understand. I am not btw saying its bad idea to teach people something important, but generally people just dont like it which means their performance is bad.
What I think is the major problem is how things are presented in schools and the other issue is narrow choice of subjects.
For example you can study history, but there are so many ways one can study history.
You can study history of science, technology, fashion or anything.
But we are always stuck studying one thing and that is popes, kings, and magna charta. I mean wtf? What kind of kid wants know that and can understand it???
Similar thing goes for any other subject. Physics can be studied through math and equations, but a lot of simple physics can also be demonstrated on various models and they would prove very useful as most kid have trouble grasping the abstract equations. However you can show kids a model of lever and show them how it works and suddenly everyone gets it.
Math can be fun. But the way its taught is really boring. I mean I used to be in math classes and we had extra math, but it was just drilling and doing the same shit. They suck all the fun out of these subjects and make it fun only for small percent of students that are inclined to study things in that specific way.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
I dunno, I didn't have much bad to say about school. It was sort of like browsing wikipedia pages – it's all fluff knowledge but one could always find something interesting in it if one wanted to. I was a rebellious little dipshit but teachers treated me well despite of that, not sure why. They must have seen that although I had no respect for authority I had respect for the subjects, yo.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
One time in primary school me and a friend made a complete mockery out of an astronomy project where we were supposed to make a film about the planetary system. We ended up making a movie mostly consisting of us blowing up oranges with fire crackers and explaining that this was how it looked when planets collided.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
We also included a segment in that movie depicting us chasing a cat through the streets. Not sure why. We blamed that particular inclusion on a lack of editing equipment.
 

Serac

A menacing post slithers
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
2,354
Location
Stockholm
And of course there is this classic story of another movie project, in German class. We got to choose the subject freely, so obviously we chose Hitler and among other things made vivid depictions of the gas chambers as well as including various swear worlds in German and Spanish easter-egg style (the word "motherfucker" featured in both German and Spanish at various points in the film). The teacher failed the project because it was "offensive". Good times.
 

Minuend

pat pat
Local time
Today, 15:51
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
3,973
You don't necessarily get smarter by gaining more knowledge, depends on how insightful you were before reading. You might alter some perceptions and gaining more in depth knowledge, but you extending your capacity for understanding things more complexily wont come automatic from reading past a certain degree.

You can read a hundred books, but wont be any smarter unless you've developed tools for understanding and interpreting what you read. Learning how to interpret and understand is what will really enhance your understanding and make you able yo use most of whatever tiny pieces of knowledge you come across. That skill is not developed by reading random books.

How are you going to separate gems from garbage unless you have the ability to analyze and understand in complexity what you read? Reading a gem wont be any different than reading garbage, unless you know how to make the distinction.
 

lolzcry

burnin'
Local time
Today, 19:21
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
69
You don't necessarily get smarter by gaining more knowledge, depends on how insightful you were before reading. You might alter some perceptions and gaining more in depth knowledge, but you extending your capacity for understanding things more complexily wont come automatic from reading past a certain degree.

You can read a hundred books, but wont be any smarter unless you've developed tools for understanding and interpreting what you read. Learning how to interpret and understand is what will really enhance your understanding and make you able yo use most of whatever tiny pieces of knowledge you come across. That skill is not developed by reading random books.

How are you going to separate gems from garbage unless you have the ability to analyze and understand in complexity what you read? Reading a gem wont be any different than reading garbage, unless you know how to make the distinction.
I absolutely agree with you, but just wanted to add that you need knowledge to gain insight.. instinct does not give you any.
 

Polaris

Radioactive vision
Local time
Today, 02:51
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,140
Depends on what/how you read, and where you choose to go with it, obviously. Next, try getting the job you want.

I spent most of my childhood in libraries, and I highly doubt it made me smarter. It made me read and write well, but I think it stopped there. You don't get smarter simply by taking information in passively. Creativity cannot be learnt by reading books - there's a reason why arts classes used to be considered important. Child's play is extremely important for creativity. Just being out there and learning social behaviour. Without that, it doesn't matter how fucking much of a 'genius' you are.

I had little to no contact with other children and thus became a social retard, something which is still affecting my ability to get anywhere in life today. I don't know how to be pushy, and I don't put myself forward. I have zero interest in competition, except for at academic levels. Which doesn't really help much anywhere but in academia, dhuh.
 

lolzcry

burnin'
Local time
Today, 19:21
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
69
Depends on what/how you read, and where you choose to go with it, obviously. Next, try getting the job you want.

I spent most of my childhood in libraries, and I highly doubt it made me smarter. It made me read and write well, but I think it stopped there. You don't get smarter simply by taking information in passively. Creativity cannot be learnt by reading books - there's a reason why arts classes used to be considered important. Child's play is extremely important for creativity. Just being out there and learning social behaviour. Without that, it doesn't matter how fucking much of a 'genius' you are.

I had little to no contact with other children and thus became a social retard, something which is still affecting my ability to get anywhere in life today. I don't know how to be pushy, and I don't put myself forward. I have zero interest in competition, except for at academic levels. Which doesn't really help much anywhere but in academia, dhuh.
That's one of the reasons for me saying that school is necessary till pre-school
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
Local time
Today, 23:51
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Messages
7,006
Location
69S 69E
probably not smarter tbh

or if i was, most likely incapable (more incapable) of navigating the Real World™
 

sushi

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
594
some people have the discipline of self learning, some people dont
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
some people have the discipline of self learning, some people dont
Yes. I suppose this is true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self corrective behaviour however is something that doesnt develope well when people constantly answer to someone else. Lets say the kid is under supervision in school. Comes home and again is under supervision of a parent.
 

sushi

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
594
some people have the discipline of self learning, some people dont
Yes. I suppose this is true.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Self corrective behaviour however is something that doesnt develope well when people constantly answer to someone else. Lets say the kid is under supervision in school. Comes home and again is under supervision of a parent.

i generally classify everything after grade 7 or grade 9 middle school i could have learn by myself outside of school.
but some people stop learning or have a drive to read and learn when they graduate, so school system is design to indoctrinate these people .
 

rlnb

Member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
69
University courses are probably the best way to learn (coupled with reading the right text-books ). It gives you a great overview into the subject from an expert and you can then go and deepen your knowledge by reading the right books in the library.
 

rlnb

Member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
69
Most popular books are pretty useless though. Especially for latest topics. It is very difficult to learn these things from books as good books haven't been written yet.
 

Animekitty

I am all of my perception (Sally 666)
Local time
Today, 07:51
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
6,341
Location
subjective
The books I read were comics, technology, and science fiction. There was a limited selection at my local library, especially the adult section. The books I read are hard for me to understand. I need to become more mature to understand them.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
There has been a case of a guy who had like 20 something patented things, but never been to university. I dont remember his name, but there was a story about him in the radio. In history there were a lot of smart people who never had formal education to speak of and made quite an impact.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today, 14:51
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
641
Location
Between concrete walls
What I mean by this is that we kind of assume something is important simply, because its been made important. Sort of like reading the news. However every smart person knows you dont learn much from reading the news. But if you spend 2 hours reading the news you kind of assume its important to read news. Same way if you spend all your day learning in school you kind of assume its important to learn in school, mainly, because you never had any substantial time to learn outside of school.
 

rlnb

Member
Local time
Today, 21:51
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
69
There has been a case of a guy who had like 20 something patented things, but never been to university. I dont remember his name, but there was a story about him in the radio. In history there were a lot of smart people who never had formal education to speak of and made quite an impact.
Agree. I am not saying going to university is important. There are a lot of nonsense that comes with it like grades/exams/ major / debt etc. But in the internet age, accessing a good university lecture on a topic should be pretty easy and can be very helpful to learn about something. The smart people you mention often write the best books and teach the best courses, though they may not have not gone to university themselves.
 
Top Bottom