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Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (HPMoR)

cheese

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#1
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/6/Harry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality
That's the first chapter I read, anyway.

It's fanfiction, and a pretty interesting take on the 'magical world'. Also brings up a fair few points I've always agreed with myself, that have been issues of contention with the (real) world.

Not sure how the other chapters will fare.


*edit
Apparently stuff was partly sourced from this site:
http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences

which describes itself as a 'community wiki devoted to refining the art of human rationality'.

This is quite an interesting little find. All the science in this fanfic is real.
 

cheese

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#2
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - pretty interesting

I'm really enjoying this. 5 chapters in now. It's teaching me new stuff about science and giving me terms for things I've noticed myself but never knew any official terms for -

eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

which explains a lot of my frustration with people, and myself.
 

cheese

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#3
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Someone, anyone! PLEASE read this story with me! I'm having so much fun with it, and dammit I know I shouldn't bump my own thread (and I promisemaybe not to do so again till at least tomorrow) but I've got a strong feeling some if not most of you would enjoy it; it's very much in our style, in our manner of thinking. Creative violence, creative solutions, general lateral thinking, common sense, arrogant over Ti-ing (you know you love it), and so far it only seems to be getting better - I'm on chapter 17 now.

Ignore the fact that it's a Harry Potter fanfic - that's really barely relevant, so far, except for certain similarities in plot.
 
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#4
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I'm only up to chapter 3 so far, but really digging it! Nice share. If only the real (fictional?) Harry was this interesting.
 

EyeSeeCold

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#5
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Can you give a synopsis?
 

Trebuchet

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#6
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I read maybe three pages and was already laughing at the Donald Norman quotes (a flat metal plate affords pushing). I don't usually read fanfic but I have to admit there is some charm here.
 

Vegard Pompey

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#7
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I would love to read this story with you but not right now. I do find this intriguing.

EDIT: I'm reading it. It's really cool. Harry Potter sounds like Latro.

Harry was breathing in short pants. His voice came out choked. "You can't DO that!"

"It's only a Transfiguration," said McGonagall. "An Animagus transformation, to be exact."

"You turned into a cat! A SMALL cat! You violated Conservation of Energy! That's not just an arbitrary rule, it's implied by the form of the quantum Hamiltonian! Rejecting it destroys unitarity and then you get FTL signaling! And cats are COMPLICATED! A human mind can't just visualize a whole cat's anatomy and, and all the cat biochemistry, and what about the neurology? How can you go on thinking using a cat-sized brain?"
 
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#8
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

This is WAY better than the original books! I love it!

How do we type Harry then? Is he "one of us"? I kinda relate to him quite a lot, except I love shopping clothes, haha! :o
 

Vegard Pompey

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#9
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Half a dozen chapters in, I really like this. Though I will say the writing could be a lot better. The descriptions are lacking, almost the whole story is dialogue.
 

cheese

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#10
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Aw, glad you like it!

Half a dozen chapters in, I really like this. Though I will say the writing could be a lot better. The descriptions are lacking, almost the whole story is dialogue.
I think it's pretty good quality for fanfic: it flows, the vocabulary is convincing (which means the erudite, educated characters actually sound erudite and educated), the inconsistencies/illogical twists/convenient but fluffy baubles in typical plotlines, devices, character development, etc are brought to light, examined and then corrected, the 'life lessons' are not nearly as obvious as in most fiction for mass consumption, let alone fanfiction...
ooh yes, and any attempt to manipulate the plot in order to emotionally manipulate the reader is instantly subverted with logic and common sense.

The writing's better than a lot of the stuff on the shelves, imo. I'm actually enjoying it, and not just for the content. For what it is, it's pretty well done.

Some of the other characters could do with more development though. Sometimes this feels like the revenge of one NT upon the world, with a very good model of the rest of the world's behaviour, but not enough understanding of the mechanisms underlying it.

It does come across like Latro, you're right! Someone who knows his stuff and is passionate about adhering to sense. That's part of why I enjoy the somewhat isolated perspective - it's like reading something that finally understands the way you think, except more entertaining.

I actually find descriptions really boring, which is why I don't find its lack a problem I suppose. But yeah, the author's relying too much on the reader's knowledge of Rowling's world-creation, perhaps.


I don't usually read fanfiction either - this was brought to my attention by groosalugg (some of you may remember him from irc) which proves he is good for something, after all.



*edit
EyeSeeCold
Haven't finished it yet, but it's basically a reimagining of Harry Potter, the character, with a very slightly different background. So far we're still in his first year. His mind, and the way he approaches magic with a rationalist perspective, and his plotting, manipulation and evil ambitions, are more interesting than the actual plot, which so far is fairly similar to Rowling's.
 

EyeSeeCold

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#11
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

EyeSeeCold
Haven't finished it yet, but it's basically a reimagining of Harry Potter, the character, with a very slightly different background. So far we're still in his first year. His mind, and the way he approaches magic with a rationalist perspective, and his plotting, manipulation and evil ambitions, are more interesting than the actual plot, which so far is fairly similar to Rowling's.
Eh, I became bored less than halfway down. Seems like it's for INTJs.
 

Vegard Pompey

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#12
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I actually find descriptions really boring, which is why I don't find its lack a problem I suppose. But yeah, the author's relying too much on the reader's knowledge of Rowling's world-creation, perhaps.
I find descriptions boring too, because I feel that most literature gets description wrong, at least according to me. Most writers describe too much stuff that isn't relevant and too little that is relevant, and they don't seem to realize that one of the great advantages that literature has over other mediums like film is the ability to leave appearances entirely up to interpretation. But this fic really could use more description in between the lines of dialogue to make the conversations more vivid.
 

Words

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#13
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Aw, glad you like it!
I only read Chapter 6, your link. I didn't realize the start was elsewhere. But I'm finding it hilarious. I get bogged down by the details and unknown definitions such as Emergence but overall it's a pretty sweet ride.



It does come across like Latro, you're right!
Who is 'Latro'?

I actually find descriptions really boring, which is why I don't find its lack a problem I suppose.
I share the same opinion. I think it's in its most preferred format.

-----

I can't relate to Harry's contingency mindset but blatantly pointing out worst scenarios is a habit of mine.
 

Words

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#14
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Just some quotes after reading Chapter 7 that I found particularly funny and/or interesting:

"That's not interactive, there's no back-and-forth with the other player and how much fun is it to watch someone incredibly good at moving their eyes? And then whichever Seeker gets lucky swoops in and grabs the Snitch and makes everyone else's work moot. It's like someone took a real game and grafted on this pointless extra position just so that you could be the Most Important Player without needing to really get involved or learn the rest of it. Who was the first Seeker, the King's idiot son who wanted to play Quidditch but couldn't understand the rules?" Actually, now that Harry thought about it, that seemed like a surprisingly good hypothesis. Put him on a broomstick and tell him to catch the shiny thing...
Seems like Ti humor. "It doesn't make any sense".


But..." Draco said. His voice was trembling. "If Muggles have that kind of power... then... what are we?"
"No, Draco, that's not it, don't you see? Science taps the power of human understanding to look at the world and figure out how it works. It can't fail without humanity itself failing. Your magic could turn off, and you would hate that, but you would still be you. You would still be alive to regret it. But because science rests upon my human intelligence, it is the power that cannot be removed from me without removing me. Even if the laws of the universe change on me, so that all my knowledge is void, I'll just figure out the new laws, as has been done before. It's not a Muggle thing, it's a human thing, it just refines and trains the power you use every time you look at something you don't understand and ask 'Why?' You're of Slytherin, Draco, don't you see the implication?"
Draco looked up from the book to Harry. His face showed dawning understanding. "Wizards can learn to use this power."
"Trying to figure out how something works on that deep level, the first ninety-nine explanations you come up with are wrong. The hundredth is right. So you have to learn how to admit you're wrong, over and over and over again. It doesn't sound like much, but it's so hard that most people can't do true science. Always questioning yourself, always taking another look at things you've always taken for granted," like having a Snitch in Quidditch, "and every time you change your mind, you change yourself. But I'm getting way ahead of myself here. Way ahead of myself. I just want you to know... I'm offering to share some of my knowledge. If you want. There's just one condition."
"Uh huh," Draco said. "You know, Father says that when someone says that to you, it is never, ever a good sign."
Harry nodded. "Now, don't mistake me and think that I'm trying to drive a wedge between you and your father. It's not about that. It's just about me wanting to deal with someone my own age, rather than having this be between me and Lucius. I think your father would be okay with that too, he knows you have to grow up sometime. But your moves in our game have to be your own. That's my condition - that I'm dealing with you, Draco, not your father."
"Enough," Draco said. He stood up. "Way too much. I have to go off and think about this. Not to mention it's about time to board the train."
"Take your time," Harry said. "Just remember it's not an exclusive offer, even if you take me up on it. True science does sometimes take more than one person."
It's turning out to be a real sense of revolution with its theme of mix of science and magic for the sake understanding. It might actually lead to something entirely new. I was thinking it would follow the same Rowling plotline but this is an alternate, creative take on Rowling's world; it would definitely be more interesting.

Draco snarled. "She has some sort of perverse obsession about the Malfoys, too, and her father is politically opposed to us so he prints every word. As soon as I'm old enough I'm going to rape her."
Green liquid spurted out of Harry's nostrils, soaking into the scarf still covering that area. Comed-Tea and lungs did not mix, and Harry spent the next few seconds frantically coughing.
Draco looked at him sharply. "Something wrong?"
It was at this point that Harry came to the sudden realization that (a) the sounds coming from the rest of the train platform had turned into more of a blurred white noise at around the same time Draco had reached inside his robes, and (b) when he had discussed committing murder as a bonding method, there had been exactly one person in the conversation who'd thought they were both joking.
I found this funny.

Harry gave an evil laugh, it just seemed to come naturally at that point. "You have to realize, Draco, that the whole world you know, all of magical Britain, is just one square on a much larger gameboard. The gameboard that includes places like the Moon, and the stars in the night sky, which are lights just like the Sun only unimaginably far away, and things like galaxies that are vastly huger than the Earth and Sun, things so large that only scientists can see them and you don't even know they exist. But I really am Ravenclaw, you know, not Slytherin. I don't want to rule the universe. I just think it could be more sensibly organized."
Bold Part: I didn't know the houses represented their personalities. His intentions are interesting. Does this make him more INTP than INTJ?

The rest is just funny because of perceived contradiction specially this "Harry gave an evil laugh".
 

cheese

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#15
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Vegard: Yeah you're right, s/he could get into more detail at important junctures.

Words: Yay!

What I love about this story is that, while there may be some literary aspects lacking (although I really find it quite enjoyably written), it makes me think, and comes across like a very interesting teacher giving you a blitzing run through a whole series of ideas, mental exercises and games, using the story and the characters as tools. It's almost like the point isn't the story, but a vehicle to spread rationalist ideals ... which actually may be partially correct. Author's notes on the profile page seem to indicate as much anyway. And yet the ideas are worked in so seamlessly, as are the analogies and explanations - and it doesn't follow a simple linear format either, instead bringing you round to meet your own conclusions through a series of questions and tangential parallels. (Reminds me of Sophie's World, in this respect, though writing style is more similar to Terry Pratchett.) It's pretty interactive, and sort of reminds me of a video game, really, one of those where the point is to explore and make your own decisions and the background story is just, well, background.

Alright, I don't want to overdo the praise; I'm clearly in love. :o:D I'm just really surprised to see this much quality in a work of fanfiction. Which is probably silly of me. Besides, not everyone enjoys it.

Also, Latro is a forum member who's more often on IRC. Knows a lot, tends to be very accurate, and is pretty compulsive about correcting (though it comes across as for the sake and love of truth, rather than arrogance).

And yes, I would imagine Ravenclaw types are more INTP - at least as they're described here. Slytherin - Ni types, not necessarily T (hence the INFJs with their dark vision of wizardkind).
I'm not sure what Harry is though. I'm trying to figure it out - ENTP seems likely; he's very much into actually trying the things he thinks up, and he thinks up a lot.

*edit
I've got it.

This story makes me feel less lonely. That is a dangerous thing to feel.
 

Dormouse

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#16
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

This is quite refreshing, considering I spent most of the original books hating on Harry for being a sentimental fop. I just want to hug this new version of him.
 
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#17
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

only thing that bothers me about this story is inconsistency in the writing. Making harry say 'mum' and then going on to say that books were raised by 'two-by-fours' is inconsistent. Also, harry is supposed to be british, so why did he go to elementary school and not primary school?

aaaaaaaah details, details!
 

Words

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#18
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Vegard: Yeah you're right, s/he could get into more detail at important junctures.
Well, on my lens, I actually felt skipping over whatever sceneric detail it had. But I've only read 8 chapters so far, so I don't know.

On second thought, I skip geographic detail all the time.



What I love about this story is that, while there may be some literary aspects lacking (although I really find it quite enjoyably written), it makes me think, and comes across like a very interesting teacher giving you a blitzing run through a whole series of ideas, mental exercises and games, using the story and the characters as tools. It's almost like the point isn't the story, but a vehicle to spread rationalist ideals ... which actually may be partially correct. Author's notes on the profile page seem to indicate as much anyway. And yet the ideas are worked in so seamlessly, as are the analogies and explanations - and it doesn't follow a simple linear format either, instead bringing you round to meet your own conclusions through a series of questions and tangential parallels. (Reminds me of Sophie's World, in this respect, though writing style is more similar to Terry Pratchett.) It's pretty interactive, and sort of reminds me of a video game, really, one of those where the point is to explore and make your own decisions and the background story is just, well, background.
well that explains why it's so interesting. Keyword: Interactive. Sort of "TiNe'ish".

Lesson? Reminds me of this part:

"People don't care about me, they aren't even paying attention to me, they want to shake hands with a bad explanation."


Alright, I don't want to overdo the praise; I'm clearly in love. :o:D I'm just really surprised to see this much quality in a work of fanfiction. Which is probably silly of me. Besides, not everyone enjoys it.
What was it called? The fundamental attribution error?

And I don't think popularity means quality, though I'm probably just nitpicking.


Also, Latro is a forum member who's more often on IRC. Knows a lot, tends to be very accurate, and is pretty compulsive about correcting (though it comes across as for the sake and love of truth, rather than arrogance).
Hah, I remember him. I actually thought you were taking about this guy, which of course didn't make much sense. :confused:


I'm not sure what Harry is though. I'm trying to figure it out - ENTP seems likely; he's very much into actually trying the things he thinks up, and he thinks up a lot.
An interesting proposition. He does thrive on experimentation, also a 'prankster' and a master in social facade.


only thing that bothers me about this story is inconsistency in the writing. Making harry say 'mum' and then going on to say that books were raised by 'two-by-fours' is inconsistent. Also, harry is supposed to be british, so why did he go to elementary school and not primary school?

aaaaaaaah details, details!
Well, I'm glad I didn't know this... would've caused irritation. I also looked for significant vernacular. feels empty when a part of the culture is missing.
 
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#19
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

yeah I am starting to feel deeply irritated by cultural dissonance! I am sure I can get past it, but coming from an american background and moving to a british derived commonwealth state and knowing both cultures just makes it more stark the differences.
 

Words

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#20
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Chapter 8

"PC or NPC, that is the question?"
:D

Just as Hermione started to drink, he said, "I'd like you to help me take over the universe."

Hermione finished her drink and lowered the soda. "No thank you, I'm not evil."
The boy looked at her in surprise, as though he'd been expecting some other answer. "Well, I was speaking a bit rhetorically," he said. "In the sense of the Baconian project, you know, not political power. 'The effecting of all things possible' and so on. I want to conduct experimental studies of spells, figure out the underlying laws, bring magic into the domain of science, merge the wizarding and Muggle worlds, raise the entire planet's standard of living, move humanity centuries ahead, discover the secret of immortality, colonize the Solar System, explore the galaxy, and most importantly, figure out what the heck is really going on here because all of this is blatantly impossible."
I don't think 'ruling the universe' translates into this. But I guess how much an individual can bring progress to the universe depends on the person's natural potential and situation(which relies on probability and overall ability). In other words, societies' optimum progress is achieved by accurately sorting the right people in the right position.

But I still don't think progress necessitates 'ruling the world'.

Chapter 10

This chapter was both playful and interesting. There's that overall questioning of meaning. Why? Why?

And then there's the question of true efficient action, about what actions are truly logical for the sustenance of the 'real reason' and what actions are sourced misleadingly, out of pride or some fleeting stimulation.

I guess it's hard to form a clearer view on what matters by hierarchy when faced with all the temporary temptations. Because of the conflicts of 'wants', the answers become vague and internal truth harder to achieve.

House Elf (lol)

"Indeed," snapped Draco. His stern face lightened somewhat. "Though your wish is understandable enough. Tell me, what House do you think you might be sorted into? I'm bound for Slytherin House, of course, like my father Lucius before me. And for you, I should guess House Hufflepuff, or possibly House Elf."
"ELF!"

Huh? Harry remembered Draco mentioning a 'House Elf', but what was that exactly?

Judging by the appalled looks dawning on the faces around him, it wasn't anything good -
I'm sorry Dobby but I find this funny.
 

cheese

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#21
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Well, on my lens, I actually felt skipping over whatever sceneric detail it had. But I've only read 8 chapters so far, so I don't know.

On second thought, I skip geographic detail all the time.
Not geographic detail - detail on body language, expression, thought and relevant environmental cues.

Words said:
well that explains why it's so interesting. Keyword: Interactive. Sort of "TiNe'ish".
Yes, that's how I felt.

Words said:
What was it called? The fundamental attribution error?

And I don't think popularity means quality, though I'm probably just nitpicking.
I'm not completely sure if that works here - my mistake was in assuming that published work and bad/mediocre work are mutually exclusive. But of course some bad work gets published, and some good work doesn't get published.
To make it fit, I suppose we could see it this way: my attribution of low quality to unpublished writing overlooked several circumstantial reasons for that state (lack of interest, inappropriate for the market, etc).

I don't think it's quite the same as FAE though.

I don't think popularity equals quality either, but I do think having an emotional attachment to something (because of resonance with the main character/appreciating the writer's intent/whatever) can skew one's perspective. I was just warning that my analysis and positive judgment wouldn't approximate guaranteed appreciation, even among like-minded people.

Or more simply: don't trust me, and don't let me ruin it for you.

Words said:
Hah, I remember him. I actually thought you were taking about this guy, which of course didn't make much sense. :confused:
Yar.

I think by 'taking over the universe' he meant understanding and harnessing its natural laws - bending the universe to your will through sheer force of reason. Like taking over the reins of a horse. Hence the distinction between that and political power, which is more directly concerned with subjugating and directing people.

There's a good reason for the Ch. 10 quote you posted, but please take it off! It's not safe even in spoilers! :(
(I mean it's up to you obviously)
 

Words

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#22
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I'm not completely sure if that works here - my mistake was in assuming that published work and bad/mediocre work are mutually exclusive. But of course some bad work gets published, and some good work doesn't get published.

To make it fit, I suppose we could see it this way: my attribution of low quality to unpublished writing overlooked several circumstantial reasons for that state (lack of interest, inappropriate for the market, etc).

I don't think it's quite the same as FAE though.
What is FAE?


Sorry bout the definition questions but what is "Yar"?


I think by 'taking over the universe' he meant understanding and harnessing its natural laws - bending the universe to your will through sheer force of reason. Like taking over the reins of a horse. Hence the distinction between that and political power, which is more directly concerned with subjugating and directing people.
Manipulation as a result of Identification of rules? Still, 'taking over' indicates this idea of 'shift of power', which is largely connected to politics. or maybe it's just me.

There's a good reason for the Ch. 10 quote you posted, but please take it off! It's not safe even in spoilers! :(
Heh. Roger.:)
 

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#23
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Getting a 502 error :slashnew:
 

cheese

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#24
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Damn. Just try googling 'harry potter methods of rationality'. You should get it straight up.

Words, FAE = Fundamental Attribution Error, and 'yar' is an obnoxious way of saying 'yes'.

'Taking over' involves a shift of power, yes, but that doesn't necessarily involve people. It could be potential power, or a takeover from Nature, rather than political governments: having vast knowledge and therefore more ways to manipulate your physical environment. This doesn't have to translate into directing people's lives using any form of government.

*edit
It's not working for me either. Something must've happened.

*editedit
Working again.
 

Latro

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#25
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Hah, I remember him. I actually thought you were taking about this guy, which of course didn't make much sense. :confused:
I don't really need to be remembered, I'm still around from time to time.

On-topic: I'll need to remember to read more than the first couple chapters of this.
 
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#26
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I started reading this before I came here and was pleasantly surprised to find a thread about it. I'm about to start on chapter 29 as soon as I can stop doing other things. While the Harry in this fanfic (the first one I've ever read, mind) reminds me of my ENFJ friend who is always wanting to save and/or change people, or the world, it is wonderful to see how things would go if Harry weren't such an idiot as he is in the books. Unfortunately I no longer get to feel so smart while reading this as opposed to the books, as a lot of the hard science and mathematics references go over my head.
 

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#27
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

D
Words, FAE = Fundamental Attribution Error, and 'yar' is an obnoxious way of saying 'yes'.
I see. I would love not to ask these types of questions right now, but why is 'yar' obnoxious? do you want to be shown as obnoxious?

'Taking over' involves a shift of power, yes, but that doesn't necessarily involve people. It could be potential power, or a takeover from Nature, rather than political governments: having vast knowledge and therefore more ways to manipulate your physical environment. This doesn't have to translate into directing people's lives using any form of government.
I find this quote below very related to governance:

merge the wizarding and Muggle worlds, raise the entire planet's standard of living, move humanity centuries ahead,
I don't really need to be remembered, I'm still around from time to time.
Hi Latro. :)


While the Harry in this fanfic (the first one I've ever read, mind) reminds me of my ENFJ friend who is always wanting to save and/or change people, or the world, it is wonderful to see how things would go if Harry weren't such an idiot as he is in the books. Unfortunately I no longer get to feel so smart while reading this as opposed to the books, as a lot of the hard science and mathematics references go over my head.
ENFJ? err...does not compute.
 
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#28
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Yeah, I know. This particular ENFJ has neuroses; maybe they interfere with it. He has a habit of ranting about obscure things that his audience doesn't especially care about (like this Harry) and has the same sort of drive to lead the world to the eventual Singularity and enlighten everyone, etc. He's not as NT as this Harry is but I'm nonetheless reminded.
 

Latro

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#29
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I've read through the first 6 chapters and about half of the 7th.

This is actually quite good. The style could use reworking. In particular there is a bit of a glut of dialogue, and I am actually a big fan of dialogue. It also has the general issue that I imagine is inevitable in fanfiction (the only fanfiction I've read before this is My Immortal, which doesn't really count), namely filling in the audience on details of your rendition of the author's world that are the same as that of the author's world. When the audience is people who have already read the original work in the first place, it's hard to give a fresh take on those things, and yet it's hard to write well without actually including a nod to them.

But that's honestly about it; otherwise I think this is a good way of trying to plop a rational Harry into the main story without making blunt alterations while still making everything pretty much make sense. (Replacing Vernon is an example of something that was relatively blunt but necessary to make things make sense.) I'll be interested to see how Ravenclaw is depicted; it was quite depressing how little Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw were depicted in the main series by comparison to Gryffindor and Slytherin. (Was this picture of Ravenclaws as bookworms even in the original series?)

While a lot of this will certainly resonate with a lot of us here, I find some things to be especially similar to me, as Vegard said. The rant after McGonagall turned into a cat is a great example of this.
 

cheese

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#30
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I see. I would love not to ask these types of questions right now, but why is 'yar' obnoxious? do you want to be shown as obnoxious?
Not exactly - it's more akin to putting on an annoying voice for entertainment when in a lighthearted mood or bored.

A lot of the things I say/do don't make much sense/aren't of any interest to people other than myself, so if something doesn't compute and doesn't seem serious, it's probably best to ignore it rather than waste your time.

(As for the inevitable follow-up question: I do it to have fun and indulge anyone else who might appreciate my brand of 'humour'.)

I find this quote below very related to governance:
Perhaps a little.

But it's more concerned with scientific progress than any particular ideology (beyond the idealisation of scientific progress).

And in the context of the larger quote, this seems even clearer: the only explicitly political move is the merging of the two worlds - everything else is focused on discovery and subsequent progress ("raising the standard of living" is implied through context as being possible through scientific advancement, imo). Harry doesn't seem to be jostling for a directorial position himself, but is more interested in making these things possible.

That's how I read it anyway!

----------------------

Just discovered who the writer is today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Yudkowsky

He's an AI researcher!

Here's a little:

Wikipedia said:
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky (born September 11, 1979) is an American artificial intelligence researcher concerned with the Singularity and an advocate of Friendly Artificial Intelligence.[1]
He is a co-founder and research fellow of the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence (SIAI).[2] Yudkowsky is the author of the SIAI publications "Creating Friendly AI" (2001) and "Levels of Organization in General Intelligence" (2002).[3] His most recent academic contributions include two chapters in Oxford philosopher Nick Bostrom's edited volume Global Catastrophic Risks.[4][5][6] Yudkowsky did not attend high school and is an autodidact with no formal education in artificial intelligence.[7]
He sounds like someone who'd fit right in here. Or someone we'd like to be. Or someone we think we are. Interesting. I remember getting an increasingly strong feeling that the writer genuinely knew what he was talking about, truly cared about it, and was probably a great deal more intelligent than me (not hard). I'm not saying a wikipedia entry proves anything, but he seems to have done stuff it would take some knowledge and brains to do.

Apparently this fanfic is really famous. I got useful words for describing it on one of the sites it's discussed: a primer for critical thinking/the scientific method, a story that asks all the right questions, [some other stuff I don't remember but sounded like it fit the shape of meaning in my head].

What the hell is My Immortal, by the way? I keep hearing about it. I've got the impression it's the polar opposite of the Methods of Rationality.
 

Latro

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#31
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

My Immortal is a truly hilarious piece of ... I can't even call it fanfiction. It's a hilarious piece of ... no it doesn't even quite qualify for "text" either. Just read it for yourself:
http://myimmortalrehost.webs.com/

Anyway, I have now read 21 chapters of this. It is really, really good. Hilarious at places, insightful in others, actually having some things that don't feel like insightful non sequiturs that are still non sequiturs of dialogue now, etc. My only disappointments are in Hermione and the lack of a Ron figure. Hermione looks like she might get better based on recent developments. But the lack of a Ron figure seems to basically be the author just not trying to fill the space with a character that honestly he'd have to construct from the ground up and build into the story in a natural way, which is hard. Instead we seem to have Draco, but it isn't the same sort of relationship by any means. Granted it's an entirely different Harry, but I don't think that cuts him off from a figure somewhat like Ron (in terms of his relationship with Harry, not so much his personality on his own).
 

cheese

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#32
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I get the feeling the author was just too disgusted with the original Ron to bother with him, and used Draco as a more fitting male companion (though the nature of their relationship is different, this is necessitated by Harry's difference himself).

I finished My Immortal today.

God.

It actually hurt my brain. I know that sort of sentiment is thrown around a lot in 'rational'/'intellectual' circles (often without sufficient justification imo) presumably to demonstrate their mental superiority over almost everything, but I genuinely mean it without any exaggeration. It was extremely funny in places, but also had me wanting to run away in terror. It was like ... what WAS it like? It's certainly worse than any honest attempt at writing I've read, from any age and at any level (and I've taught fairly slow kids). Makes me suspect it was an epic troll, really - especially towards the end, where the 'typos' just happen to be big, hard words (how did she manage to mispell something and have it turn out as 'pontificating', for example?). There are inconsistencies in the errors as well iirc, that can't be accounted for by Raven's departure (the lines directed at her in the "author's notes" - if they can even be called notes - are hilarious: "DO U NO WER MY SWETER I"). And that reference to Tom Bombadil seems unlikely, considering he didn't appear in the LOTR movies (thanks, ED). And just... I don't think normal people come up with drivel like that. There's usually SOME order to it, some sense. I suppose there was a little in here - though extremely centred on sex, which is surprising in what appears to be an 11 year-old girl - but the sort of madness that occurs seems more likely to come either from deliberate trolling or mental disorder. Stupidity alone doesn't cut it, I think.

And that strange account-hack in chapter 39 - was it just the author showing its true face? Might make more sense than an actual hack.
 

cheese

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#33
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Ooh yes, here's another story by the same author:
http://lesswrong.com/lw/y4/three_worlds_collide_08/

about humanity hundreds of years in the future, coming across aliens for the first time, and the problems in communication that arise from cultural incompatibility.

*edit
Especially fun to read because it was released on his blog/site Less Wrong (or was it Overcoming Bias back then?), and therefore has a pile of (intelligent and reasoned) discussion in the comments section from the readers - chapter by chapter.

It really seems like the kind of site a lot of us would like.

(A review of the story by Hugo nominee Peter Watts here: http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=266)

I had problems with the story myself, but I did find it an interesting and worthwhile read.
 

Latro

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#34
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I am now done with the 49 chapters that currently exist. That was awesome. Almost every chapter is better than the one before it.
 

Words

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#35
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

I am now done with the 49 chapters that currently exist. That was awesome. Almost every chapter is better than the one before it.
wow, you're really into it. Things got heavier on me when the humor started to blemish and the drama started to revolt.
 

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#36
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

wow, you're really into it. Things got heavier on me when the humor started to blemish and the drama started to revolt.
He does a pretty good job of killing it gently, though, I think. It doesn't feel sudden when the drama takes over. And the humor is still scattered around. I mean, Neville. Just. Neville.
 

cheese

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#37
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

The story's still being updated, for anyone who's interested. We're up to chapter 54 now (from 49 previously).
 

cheese

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#38
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Did anyone keep up with this?

The whole story ended just today. 121 chapters. It turned out to be far more than a parody and has been tightly plotted from the very start. The reddit and lesswrong communities that have risen up around it have been a source of great fun, frenzied speculation between updates and life-risking-while-crossing-roads.

It's been a real pleasure being on this journey over the last 4 years. This story means a great deal to me. I've had the unexpected joy of discovering a writer who can put to words the experience of being me - not just the rational-detached Ti part, not just the emotional part, but the often maligned marriage of the two. I've also discovered a couple of the coolest characters I've ever come across. Harry himself feels so much like a part of reality that it was with a shock I realised the other day that he isn't real. Plenty of stories are well-written in one way or another, but this appealed to me on so many levels it felt almost like wish-fulfillment. Not only was it entertaining, it was also in a style I thoroughly related to, covered material I thoroughly related to (and was educational besides), and was also deeply moving. (There are definite flaws imo, but overall that's my stance.)

It's also been super cool discovering all the foreshadowing nuggets - almost all of which I didn't notice, being an incredibly lazy reader - and feeling relief and renewed respect for the writer after all the threads finally meet and illuminate the complete picture for the first time.

Highly recommended.

DAMMIT PEOPLE, READ IT!
 
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#39
Re: Harry Potter as an NT - recommended! (so far)

Finished it, I remember reading it up to 100 and came back to finish it seeing this.
 

cheese

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#40
YAY! Also thanks for title edit, mods.
 
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