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Grudges?

FF

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I seem to hold grudges a lot, and it's really hard for me to let something go and start all over again with a person...not like I'm picky about people's behavior, but if someone has been bothering me for a really long time, and I tell them they're bothering me, yet they continue to do whatever it is they were doing, I just get angry. And stop talking to them. Pretty much forever.

I don't know if this is an INTP characteristic or not. Do any of you hold grudges toward others who have wronged you? Do you find it hard to forgive and forget?
 
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I'm very forgiving and seldom hold grudges.
 

cheese

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I don't tend to hold grudges either I think. It's probably an individual thing and not strongly related to type.
 

Mud~Eye

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I have been having trouble with this myself. And, after deciding to reconcile a relationship with a person who was important to me, have sought to learn "what is forgiveness, really? And, is forgetting possible?" I spent a few years asking questions like these and gathering information. I still don't have conclusive answers, but I am being reminded, by some others who have had this problem, that honest self-examination, a willingness to seek to understand others, and keeping an open mind can aid me in this process. Answers have started to come from different places since I starting trying to practice this. One example follows.

My SO and I are very different people. I cannot count the number of times I have gone through, in general, what you described. I was recently told by another INTP, who has gone through this with his SO, that the burden of accepting another person with all their flaws and mistakes will often lie with me, because it may be harder for our type to accept others who are different (or don't make sense), yet easier for our type than some others to come to acceptance because we tend to be interested in seeking to understand things. I don't mean to imply that it's easy. And, I don't want to say the repeated behavior your experiencing is identical to what I've experienced, either. But, it sounds like you are interested in what your part might be in the situation(s). I can only tell you what I'm finding out my part has been, to the extent that I am aware.

I just found out that I am INTP, additionally that my SO is ESFJ. So, after years of frustration, just coming to understand some of the differences in our personlities and how we gather information and make decisions has really helped me to get that, often, my SO just doesn't get "it" because of how I communicate things. My INTP friend suggested something like putting my requests and other important communications in a pretty package for delivery, because perhaps my SO does not understand how important certain things are to me, as the words I'm using are not easily understandable to my SO, or the way I say it is hard for my SO to accept. I'm still working on trying to understand the "pretty package" scenario, without it seeming like manipulation. But, my INTP friend AND my SO both assure me that it is not manipulation. And, right now, my friend is out of town, so I can't pick his brain. If anyone has any thoughts on this suggestion, feel free to message me. Thanks.

In the meantime, I err on the side of grace, in that I consider that my SO might not have understood me, might not appreciate the degree to which something bothers or is important to me, or has just forgotten. Believe me, over and over again scenarios happen all the time around here. If I flip it around, knowing that we operate differently, I can see how I have carelessly shrugged off things that are important to my SO, because they were/are irrelevant, not important, don't define life, or whatever for me.

This is a relationship that I choose, today, not to walk away from. However, I have walked away from many and for different reasons. It's not always a bad idea to choose to not be in relationship, at least that's what I think and have been told. Forgiving, I've been told, does not always have to do with continuing a relationship, either. Our type is suppose to be pretty good at detecting patterns. Perhaps, you could examine the various times you've walked away from said relationships and find another pattern somewhere. I don't know...just an idea, I won't even pretend I've done that, but now that I think of it...maybe I will. Anyway, that's all I've got for here.
 

Ermine

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I've learned through experience to not hold grudges and forgive quickly. It seems silly to me to carry others' mental baggage when I'm not the one that's guilty.
 

Ghost1986

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I seem to hold grudges a lot, and it's really hard for me to let something go and start all over again with a person...not like I'm picky about people's behavior, but if someone has been bothering me for a really long time, and I tell them they're bothering me, yet they continue to do whatever it is they were doing, I just get angry. And stop talking to them. Pretty much forever.

I don't know if this is an INTP characteristic or not. Do any of you hold grudges toward others who have wronged you? Do you find it hard to forgive and forget?


yeah i have done that most of my life. iam trying to stop now. all it does is create unneeded anger. with how my life has been i dont need any more anger. i want to be happy and enjoy life. not be paranoid, hateful, suicidal/homicidal, and well the way i have been for much of my 22 years.
 

Eric

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Okay, what is it to forgive and forget? It is to intentionally discard data that is a useful predictor of future behavior. For this reason, I find forgiveness to be not only impossible but downright stupid. I don't forgive anyone and don't want to be forgiven for anything I have done. However, I have a system of suspending judgment so I can continue a relationship while retaining the knowledge. I think that we are more prone to acceptance than to forgiveness.
 

Da Blob

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Okay, what is it to forgive and forget? It is to intentionally discard data that is a useful predictor of future behavior. For this reason, I find forgiveness to be not only impossible but downright stupid. I don't forgive anyone and don't want to be forgiven for anything I have done. However, I have a system of suspending judgment so I can continue a relationship while retaining the knowledge. I think that we are more prone to acceptance than to forgiveness.

The principal benefactor in the process of Forgiveness is the Forgiver. The problem is that every time you remember a slight (or worse) you also dredge up the memory of the negative feeling associated with the event, so that you might relive the pain 100 times. Even though it is just a shadow in intensity of the original pain - after a while the accumulated negative affect easily "outweighs" the original pain.

When you Forgive, you end the pain and its ghosts once and for all, the only part you forget is the pain that existed in the past. It allows a certain degree of freedom not to be chained to the past when dealing with certain individuals...I mean if you use the past to determine an Other's future behavior, how can do deal differently with your own?

It is a good system, that of suspending judgement. I usually put off making such decisions about a person until it becomes necessary.
 

Kuu

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I was recently told by another INTP, who has gone through this with his SO, that the burden of accepting another person with all their flaws and mistakes will often lie with me, because it may be harder for our type to accept others who are different (or don't make sense), yet easier for our type than some others to come to acceptance because we tend to be interested in seeking to understand things.

Ah, that knowledge is hard to come by... dark, winding paths and all that.

Does that mean all INTP relationships are ultimately one sided? (If that is so, I fail to see the appeal. I don't like to be in a non-equal position...)


I don't hold grudges. My anger fades away relatively quickly. But disappointment is pretty much permanent. There are some people I know never to trust again.
 

FF

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The principal benefactor in the process of Forgiveness is the Forgiver. The problem is that every time you remember a slight (or worse) you also dredge up the memory of the negative feeling associated with the event, so that you might relive the pain 100 times. Even though it is just a shadow in intensity of the original pain - after a while the accumulated negative affect easily "outweighs" the original pain.

When you Forgive, you end the pain and its ghosts once and for all, the only part you forget is the pain that existed in the past. It allows a certain degree of freedom not to be chained to the past when dealing with certain individuals...I mean if you use the past to determine an Other's future behavior, how can do deal differently with your own?

It is a good system, that of suspending judgement. I usually put off making such decisions about a person until it becomes necessary.
But I would much rather re-live the pain in memory, than in real life.

Most people do not make a serious effort to change their behavior. I'm not saying I would never forgive a person who I felt want to make an effort to prove to me they would not hurt me anymore.

But so far, I have met no one like that. I feel as if the people I have forgiven in the past only apologized to me because they were being regarded lowly from their own group, for doing me wrong in the first place. Or because it just made that person feel bad that I did not want to talk to them anymore. Once they gave out their fake apology, and I forgave them...nothing new happened...their behavior remained the same. The taunts, the teases, the ridicule, the emotional abuse...if they were truly sorry, they would have made an effort to change their behavior with me. But no.

And this is why in most cases, I don't let these things go. Because I do not want to be hurt again.
 

Wisp

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Grudges.

It occurs to me that INTPs are slow to make grudges, and slower to let them go. Discuss.
 

Anthile

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Threads merged. Have a nice day.
 

Jaico

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I rarely have grudges - it's generally hard enough to tick me off to that point. I tend to ignore any insults or snubs in my direction - why bother dealing with something like that? On the other hand, if you do happen to get me miffed (generally through sustained obnoxious behaviour), my grudges hold for a long time. Doesn't happen often, though...
 
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The only ones I have a grunge against are those that stand in the way of me being at peace with the world.
 

Trebuchet

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Re: Grudges.

It occurs to me that INTPs are slow to make grudges, and slower to let them go. Discuss.

I agree completely. I take a lot of offending before I will become truly angry. The number of grudges I have held in my life has probably been fewer than 20. But when someone transgresses in a malicious, deliberate way, or seeks to gain from my loss, I find it truly hard to forgive.

The most recent person to offend me in this way was the head of Human Resources, where I worked in Information Technology, over 5 years ago. I was popular, even employee of the year a couple of years prior to that. I took a lot of pride in my work. Most of the employees were super, and I loved working there.

One low-level person in HR, one of the few who managed to be supremely annoying, hovered over me while I tried to fix a complicated database she had messed up. Every 2 minutes, she asked how long until I was done, what I was doing, and so on. It was a task that required a lot of thought, and she wouldn't shut up. After I repeatedly told her in a mild voice that I would be sure to tell her the instant I knew anything, I finally couldn't stand it. Through gritted teeth, I said I would be sure to tell her the instant I knew anything. I was frustrated, but it wasn't that employee who earned my grudge. That was on Thursday, and I had Friday off.

On Monday, there was a great commotion. The head of HR had accused IT of trying to undermine her department, and I was one of the people she implicated, saying I had become sharp and hostile to her employees. The head of my department sent me over to apologize, and she asked me if my supervisor was leading a "conspiracy of hate against HR." These are the exact words she used, I swear.

I found out later that this woman had destroyed a lot of careers by making accusations like that, so it wasn't apparently directed at me personally. But over the next year, it got harder and harder for me to work there, until I finally decided to quit. She is one of a handful of people I haven't forgiven. Most people, I have forgiven, though not forgotten. Forgiveness is hard. I work hard on it. Maybe I'll get good at it someday.

So yes, when I hold a grudge, I do a really good job of it. And the rest of the time, I don't let things bother me.
 

Artifice Orisit

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Re: Grudges.

It occurs to me that INTPs are slow to make grudges, and slower to let them go. Discuss.
That's about right, irl I'm a very placid, forgiving person because it makes life easier for me; I go with the flow mostly, holding a grudge takes effort and most slights are simply not worth it.

When I do hold a grudge, there's a good reason for it, and in the absence of some highly specific reason why I should forgive the subject of the grudge, I don't.
 

Morel Panic

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Re: Grudges.

It occurs to me that INTPs are slow to make grudges, and slower to let them go.
You could probably call this high grudge inertia.

I held one grudge for so long, It became second nature and I forgot why I had it. Eventually, I did get over it. I also agree that grudges almost never worth the effort (except when they seem like they are...in which case they usually still aren't).
 
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I have a grudge against society, took awhile to develop but maybe if they would do something that makes sense to me for once this grudge would stop. As long as the people are kept divided this grudge will not stop. I could go on and on but I have already expressed enough negativity today. I'm sick of it, this negativity isn't me, its just a product of past experiences, environment, and the seeming lack of flexibility in the SJ dominated society. I prefer flexibility over rigidity. Things that are flexible at least bend when they reach their stress point, while rigid objects tend to break when they hit their stress point.
 

Miss Led

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Okay, what is it to forgive and forget? It is to intentionally discard data that is a useful predictor of future behavior. For this reason, I find forgiveness to be not only impossible but downright stupid. I don't forgive anyone and don't want to be forgiven for anything I have done. However, I have a system of suspending judgment so I can continue a relationship while retaining the knowledge. I think that we are more prone to acceptance than to forgiveness.


Me too...but I just say "Forgive and Forget" because it doesn't make a very nice catchy quote when you get into the intracacy and deeper meaning of it :p
 

Da Blob

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Okay, so what is the profit in holding a grudge?
It empowers and entitles the one that caused you pain
or distress endless opportunities to repeatedly inflict pain
each time memory of that person, event or association
is brought to awareness.
Not forgiving is much like adding lashes to a punishment
or being haunted by echoes,
each with some degree of faded pain.
One painful event, left unforgiven,
can result a thousand painful memories...
one rebuke can turn into a continual rebuke...
one rejection by one individual
can be experienced as a total never-ending rejection by all...
 

Zero

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According to the CPP MBTI results I have INTPs are tolerant of a large number of behaviours. I probably get too caught up in wondering what other people think of me and worrying about social interaction. I thank my parents for this paranoia (then again, maybe it's a bit natural).

Anyway, I don't hold grudges. There's only one person I can say I truly hate. Maybe two, but that's two tops. They're both people who harassed me and are exceedingly immature, rude, decietful and obnoxious. They are also both older women who I have no relation to. They are strangers I wish I hadn't had the unpleasantness of having a run in with.

If I had the ability, I would kill them on sight. They are the only reason I believe abortion has every right to exists and be practiced. I wish we had a way of knowing if people would turn out so disgusting and we could terminate them before we had to deal with them.

Good, respectful, polite people die in patriotic war to protect rotten people.

It's a cruel sense of humour.

* I guess one could say I hold a grudge against my parents and upbringing, but I think it's to a fairly normal extent. My family wasn't perfect and I feel like I ended up missing out on opportunities to improve as a child. There were other opportunities and very much in a sensor fashion I might add.

On a day to day basis I don't hold a grudge against my parents. I would say my feelings are normal and more or less disappointment.

That's rather pathetic when I consider all the sensor sort of experiences I had when growing up. I did all the camping essentials (though never did conquer the ropes course). (Oh noes, maybe all my issues are connected to not doing the ropes course in 7th grade...). We white water rafted a few years, I also know how to row- which is apparently a skill in and of itself... We went ATVing several times, I've also snorkeled and scuba drove, been to the ocean several times. Been on many boats, boating related sports. I've even done snow mobil-ing (I don't know what the proper term for it is). I've traveled quite a bit. I can also legally operate cars, motorcycles and boats.

So I'm bitter over the fact that they raised me as two S(T)Ps would.
 
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