Girls

[Dentan]

each girl has her own game (attitude)
but if I had to define flirting,
its a mixture of,
friendliness/cuteness, charm/humor, swag/stride, confidence/cockiness,
coolness/nonchalance, playfulness, taking interest and concern in her,
and you being able to deal with her game
(game being my other note on facebook)

its about getting in her comfort zone
and being comfortable enough to call her out when she acts up
its about being comfortable with yourself and your intentions
because if you aren't, shes gonna notice and want nothing to do with you
its about being willing to have a close connection with her
but also having your own life and not needing her to go on
its about being a man

thing is, if you ask a girl what she thinks women want
she probably wont be able to tell you too easily
and even if she could,
she'll wants a guy who has things figured out for himself
and since everybody has there own game,
her advice wont work for all girls, only girls similar to her

many like people that are opinionated / have things figured out
since they have a confidence to them
though not everybody works like that
some see something special in the person
personality that compliment/interact well together definitely helps

some people play the hard to get game
(its human nature to want what you can't get)
and give people a lot of mind games and tests
(to make sure they get the best)

each person has their own attitude
to how relationships and hooking up should work
so I can't make to many definite theories
but many people like/end up doing things
"in the moment"

everybody likes hooking up
but society treats each gender different
so some have to feel like they were swept away in the moment
or be able to play it off (blame it on the a a a a a alcohol :P)
or just wait for a serious relationship
which help protects your image,
to those who would play you off/judge

many guys tend to have trouble seeing girls flaws
and put girls on this idealistic pedestal
and don't realize that girls have their flaws just like we do

some girls look more at the pureness of a guy
but secure and insecure girls generally look up to a guy who is/comes off confident.
insecure girls have a stronger need for a confident guy
since they don't have things figured out for themselves
they need a man to help them out.

girls also communicate on multiple level
you can just take things they say for face value (and fail)
or you can start to pick up the deeper meaning to what they say
just don't specifically look for anything
because if you look for something specific
you'll start to see it whether its there or not
just try to stay aware that there are sometimes hints, manipulations, power struggles
and other interesting things in what people say
and when your proficient enough determine what something somebody says actually means,
you'll be able to deal with them/handle the situation better

oh yeah, for some girls you have to show enough status/ambition/personality for her taste
its an advantage if your socially dominant
since her status and yours becomes connected while dating
that being said, she still has responsibility over her status
but either of your actions will have an affect on both of you

these types of girls tend to be mean to each other (possibly outright but usually subtly)
its the fight for dominance among social circle(s)
they're presenting an image of themselves to the male community

not dissing love and intimacy, just saying there's more than just that (for life fighters)
without love and intimacy things just wouldn't work out

there definitely are (relationship) situations out there which could possibly prove this wrong
nothing can be 100% explained
but that's no reason to be agnostic about something you can observe, look for patterns and analyze.

This isn't by me but by a fellow INTP:
Women are meant to be the carers, the nurturers, the emotional glue that binds families, groups and communities together.
And for many, this is the way in which they find fulfillment.
For others this is an opportunity to control.
They understand the female's fear of conflict, her deep desire to connect and they manipulate it with subtlety and skill.
They control others by controlling conflict - deciding whether and how to unleash it into the group.
The other females are aware of this and being fearful and uncertain, stay close to the alpha female in case the undercurrent of unreleased tension in the group is unleashed onto them.
Every female will become a recipient of this violence at some stage to ensure she is kept in line.
Some females will bear the constant brunt of it to ensure that some tension is released in a relatively safe manner.
This avoids the build up too much negative emotions - ultimately this would generate chaos, something the Alpha female wishes to avoid at all costs.
Scheming and always sensing the intense undercurrents of the group, the Alpha female is after one thing and one thing only - power.
Males represent power. She wants access to the Alpha male of course, and no competition.

my take on this:
I don't necessarily disagree with anything but it should be noted there are multiple types of Alphas
Each has there own style, not all are bitches/power trippers,
some are true leaders who can lead without (much) manipulation and mind games.
I'm not going to even get into the "defending dominance for dominance sake (competition) vs doing it due to insecurity" debate.
And there are girls out there that don't even care about the whole social hierarchy

 

[Carnap]

yawn. Glad I'm not in your social circle or your culture. Alpha males and Alpha females are the anti-intp. I have two professors like that. In constant competition with other women. I can hardly go to their class like that. It just makes me roll my eyes.

 

[Dentan]

I dunno, even though I go to a tech school
the same fundamental laws of attraction work.

its just that extroverts are better at yelling over each other and thinking things up quick,
so they can compete better/impose there reality on others

im going to be be a little pretensious and use my intution to say that
you dislike their competition as a defense mechanism since you haven't mastered it
if you have it mastered, it becomes a game that's fun to play with others
(especially as an INTP since our logical skills are so good)

 

[Ermine]

I understand that there are so many ways to approach this subject, but I resent how you refer to "girls" as a collective group and pretend to know how they are. I'll give you that you are right about some girls, but there's no way you can categorize the temperament of half the population in that way.

 

[Toad]

I think he's a virgin.

 

[Dentan]

I understand that there are so many ways to approach this subject, but I resent how you refer to "girls" as a collective group and pretend to know how they are. I'll give you that you are right about some girls, but there's no way you can categorize the temperament of half the population in that way.

I agree that you can't just categorize the temperament of half the population
But there are patterns of behavior
that gets better results than others
I've tried to analyze naturals with girls and collect as much data as I can
and applied the stuff I saw to good results

Also Sly, I'm far from a virgin, I'm actually #5 from
http://homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/iblog/B1386252977/C715152919/E467503953/index.html

 

[Beat Mango]

This is one valid perspective, but there are many others, and I would recommend choosing whichever one suits you best. If that's this one, then all the best with it.

 

[echoplex]

Alot of points being made here. Some good, some perhaps not so good. It is obviously good to keep in mind that alot of these things are just trends and generalizations, and are not true of all females; particularly that part about women being super-competitive with other women to present an image to guys. The smart women are the ones who know that such tactics tend to repel alot of guys in the process. They certainly repel me.

The 2nd paragraph makes the most sense to me. I agree that flirting is mostly about getting others to feel comfortable. And of course, being comfortable with yourself and being able to be independent are always good ideas.

 

[Jennywocky]

*fascinated by the male species*

 

[Prof_Pointless]

These sweeping generalities basically seem to cover the whole range of human emotions and opinions. If you think you can nail down women then you are able to nail down people in general.

In order to maintain the illusion of control over our environment we tend to create general notions that we believe apply to groups, in this case men or women. But in fact this is just bias in its most primal form. The truth of gender stereotypes applies in some cases but often just to the extent which individuals accept and live up to them.

In short, you can't 'solve' women anymore than you can ride a unicorn to the moon. Just be yourself and hope to find someone that matches up nicely.

 

[echoplex]

*fascinated by the male species*

The indigenous male once roamed the internet safely in large numbers. But with the ending of the rain season, their herd has been thinned out by the new influx of females, eager to make a kill. The males must be cunning so as to not be outfoxed by this clever predator who feeds on their assertions. In just one hunt, an entire group of young males can lose all of their precious ego.

They must survive the winter and try again next spring when a new crop of egos will bloom. Many will not last that long.

 

[Jennywocky]

The indigenous male once roamed the internet safely in large numbers. But with the ending of the rain season, their herd has been thinned out by the new influx of females, eager to make a kill. The males must be cunning so as to not be outfoxed by this clever predator who feeds on their assertions. In just one hunt, an entire group of young males can lose all of their precious ego.

They must survive the winter and try again next spring when a new crop of egos will bloom. Many will not last that long.

*swoon*

Social ecologists are hot.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Chrysalid,

Please be wheezing, snot dripping down to your toes, wrenched in a deep paroxysm of jaw-aching laughter. If this is a joke, there is a chance I might be able to sleep tonight. Your posts are the sort of thing I come to the INTP forum to avoid.

And would it kill you to write in paragraph form? No matter what you may think, what you're writing is not poetry.

 

[Kidege]

Been hanging out with sensors, have you Chris?

It's already been stated in several threads that INTP females, and rationals in general, don't like the power games. They tend to be the lone figure, possible threat to all the "pack". They also tend to be more literal when communicating.

(Have you looked into the difference between sex and gender identity?)

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

You know, Chrisid, I really don't mean to be a jerk. It's just the same deal as what we went through with XIII (which makes me suspect you are one and the same), you come on in and tell us how to improve our life. Well, I think it's a pretty common INTP trait not to like it when someone comes in and tells you how to improve. It makes us a wee tad defensive. It's something we have to figure out on our own. And words like 'success' and phrases like 'how you present yourself' make me sprint for the exit.

 

[Ulysses]

Has anyone ever noticed how the male Power Rangers never have a bulge in their gentleman's area?

 

[Felan]

Has anyone ever noticed how the male Power Rangers never have a bulge in their gentleman's area?

That's why they have big robots

 

[meshram.alok]

Gaah.

 

[Jennywocky]

That's why they have big robots

You never know what a Transformer might transform into.

 

[Dentan]

These sweeping generalities basically seem to cover the whole range of human emotions and opinions. If you think you can nail down women then you are able to nail down people in general.

In order to maintain the illusion of control over our environment we tend to create general notions that we believe apply to groups, in this case men or women. But in fact this is just bias in its most primal form. The truth of gender stereotypes applies in some cases but often just to the extent which individuals accept and live up to them.

In short, you can't 'solve' women anymore than you can ride a unicorn to the moon. Just be yourself and hope to find someone that matches up nicely.

I'll agree that you can't solve women with an essay like that, everyone's different.
I'll also agree that we create general notions to maintain the illusion of control.
And since I'm definitely agreeing with "The truth of gender stereotypes applies in some cases"

I'll try to get to know each individual for who they are as a person.
but still continue using my pattern of behavior
its worked out well for me so far

You know, Chrisid, I really don't mean to be a jerk. It's just the same deal as what we went through with XIII (which makes me suspect you are one and the same), you come on in and tell us how to improve our life. Well, I think it's a pretty common INTP trait not to like it when someone comes in and tells you how to improve. It makes us a wee tad defensive. It's something we have to figure out on our own. And words like 'success' and phrases like 'how you present yourself' make me sprint for the exit.

I'm sorry I came off telling you guys how to live your lives.
I was just presenting something I wrote and waiting for constructive criticism to come which could help prove/disprove my view.
I should have explained my situation more, my bad.
I have the feeling that I need to get the most out of my life.
I guess that's why I care about image and making something out of myself

 

[Carnap]

im going to be be a little pretensious and use my intution to say that
you dislike their competition as a defense mechanism since you haven't mastered it
if you have it mastered, it becomes a game that's fun to play with others
(especially as an INTP since our logical skills are so good)

Or maybe I find it more useful to deny this instinct in order to befriend women and be respected intellectually by men.

There is no mastering an instinct, it is automatic. And I simply choose not to be the slave of my instincts, and thus only hang around women so that banale competition does not get in the way. I do not do mixed company unless forced to at school.

I don't find using my sexuality to make other women jealous and men drool over me a "fun game". It takes no talent whatsoever to use biological funtions to control people. I prefer to use personality.

You're right, you are pretentious. Screamingly so. Come back down to earth. Or go sleep with five other women to inflate your ego even more, what do I care.

Getting sick of this forum. Where's Cobra? He was refreshing.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

go sleep with five other women

Well that's never a bad idea.

 

[snowqueen]

You know, Chrisid, I really don't mean to be a jerk. It's just the same deal as what we went through with XIII (which makes me suspect you are one and the same), you come on in and tell us how to improve our life. Well, I think it's a pretty common INTP trait not to like it when someone comes in and tells you how to improve. It makes us a wee tad defensive. It's something we have to figure out on our own. And words like 'success' and phrases like 'how you present yourself' make me sprint for the exit.

I know what you're saying and I have been having the exact same sense of deja vu, but having reflected on the whole XIII situation I think one has to be very careful before accusing people of things based on the limited information about people we have here on the forum.

I know that I spent quite a lot of my life trying to 'better' myself (Chrisid, I'm 52 just so you understand where I'm coming from) - I did personal development workshops like the Mastery and the Est Training in the 80s, I was in therapy, I became a therapist, I used CBT, psychodynamics and transactional analysis to try to 'improve' myself. I've read all sorts of self-help books etc. I know that at times in my life I've sounded like you -excitedly telling people they can change or thinking that I've found the key to human relationships (this is identical to the activities described on the 'epiphany thread except with human instead of physics).

But now, looking back on it all, I wonder if it wasn't largely about denying who I was because I had been made to feel ashamed of being bright, argumentative and cerebral (my mother was right, it would never get me a man) and so in a way I was a 'self-hating INTP'. Now I am happy to have discovered I'm INTP because I realise that I was OK all along - so I guess I react even more strongly to people telling me I could change and better myself because I come here (like so many others seem to) to just be allowed to be me.

Brain - even if this is XIII again, trying a different approach, I'm not sure we have the right to judge (and the mods are perfectly capable of doing that - if any of us feel personally upset by a member we should talk to them first - I can say that from experience) because it's bloody hard for a lot of INTPs to deal with their functions and we all have to learn from our own mistakes because we never take advice!!


Oh - and Chrisid - if you think you will ever truly understand women you will be the very first man in history to do so - we're always one step ahead of you

 

[Ermine]

im going to be be a little pretensious and use my intution to say that
you dislike their competition as a defense mechanism since you haven't mastered it
if you have it mastered, it becomes a game that's fun to play with others
(especially as an INTP since our logical skills are so good)

I'm going to be a little pretentious and say that though I'm socially defensive sometimes, I just don't want to play. I've seen people who are good at the game, and I don't want the benefits that they're reaping. I'm not going to play in a social power struggle because I don't want power. I just want to live and let live. And call me overly principled, but I find it wrong to play a social game with everyone. I would rather treat people like they have value, not as pawns in a game.

 

[Dentan]

What was the whole XIII situation if someone wants to briefly wrap it up for me?
If not I'll just read XIII's threads if necessary

snowqueen,
Thanks for hearing me out and giving me your perspective on things
I think I can justify my learning for a couple reasons.

From my self awareness:
I have an addicting personality and tend to over indulge myself in whatever I'm in.
Its probably due to the fact that I don't like the feeling that I'm not making the most out of life
Which leads me to pushing myself harder on whatever I'm doing,
I sorta take things to the extreme, whether it be hobbies, jokes, shooting the shit, etc.

Also when I was younger,
I didn't have the best grip on life, nor was I the most social or good with girls.
Now that those are priorities in my life, I make it a point to (possibly over-) compensate
I'm also very competitive, I like winning at what I'm good at, people could analyze that as insecurity but I can very well say its included in my concept of masculinity, being alpha

I was self-hating in the past, but being fufilled in the areas I didn't previously had (and always wanted) has taken the hate away

Oh and I'm modest enough to admit there are girls out there that don't fit my pattern, but attractions a game to me, I like going after the girls that are hard to figure out/ are players. I guess its the whole wanting what you can't get and solving complex problems concept.

 

[Felan]

What was the whole XIII situation if someone wants to briefly wrap it up for me?
If not I'll just read XIII's threads if necessary
.

XIII edited many or even most of his posts replacing the text of them with an '=', so reading his posts will be difficult. I honestly don't understand the extent of hostility toward XIII or you. In essence he tried to portray a different personality type as an experiment but I don't think that was the real problem. His manner and oversensitivity were problems.

There is a tone in your posts that is somewhat abrasive and people are still raw over the XIII. The mega dump is annoying. By dumping a bunch of huge topics that are kind of lectury, it doesn't really sound like you are trying involve discussion. Essentially you are saying I have important stuff you should listen to, but I'm not going to engage in the threads and discussions already going on.

Just experiment with your structure and expression, tweaking it over time. Post fewer new topics all at once and don't make them quite so long.

But then I am only 10% sane.

 

[snowqueen]

But then I am only 10% sane.

But your newest avatar is awesome - I must experiment with that programme!

 

[Felan]

But your newest avatar is awesome - I must experiment with that programme!

Hehe thanks. It is a pretty sweet program.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Snow Queen, you are right, it could be construed that I was being overly judgmental and abrasive. I could be a 'girl'- as I appear to be- and attribute it to pms. But no, chrisid/dentan didn't even upset me that much. It was me being switchblade sarcastic, which doesn't appear to transfer so well to communicating online.

That said, I also wasn't upset with XIII. I just figured he/she was a joke, just like chrisid. Because they both seemed like caricatures, not reality.

Chrisid/Dentan- I'm sure you are a nice person and all; I just thought you were a joke. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true.

from now on I will assume everyone is real and treat them with the proper respect, even if I do look and feel like a doofus.

 

[Red Mage]

It was me being switchblade sarcastic, which doesn't appear to transfer so well to communicating online.

In my experience, it also doesn't transfer very well in real life.

 

[snowqueen]

Its probably due to the fact that I don't like the feeling that I'm not making the most out of life

Ah the INTP curse!! That one should go into the 'you know when you're an INTP thread.

I just hate the fact I haven't got multiple lifetimes to do all the things I want to do or learn all the knowledge I would like, read all the books, write all the things... and then I find myself spending a day doing absolutely nothing and I wonder why I feel frustrated...

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Red Mage
In my experience, it also doesn't transfer very well in real life.
__________________
.

Yes I know. Something kind of happened around here a week ago where people got all crazy and goofy and wild and I went along for the ride. It seemed fun. Now no one seems to be having fun and I'm not either. Blah.

I came on here in the first place to get some questions answered. It was helpful for that. I guess I should just view it as a tool for answers, not as a place to enjoy myself. Again, I imagine I sound like a jerk. But it seems to be true. Do you have a mission statement? Maybe I should search for your mission statement.

 

[snowqueen]

Yes I know. Something kind of happened around here a week ago where people got all crazy and goofy and wild and I went along for the ride. It seemed fun. Now no one seems to be having fun and I'm not either. Blah.

I came on here in the first place to get some questions answered. It was helpful for that. I guess I should just view it as a tool for answers, not as a place to enjoy myself. Again, I imagine I sound like a jerk. But it seems to be true. Do you have a mission statement? Maybe I should search for your mission statement.

If you want to use your switchblade sarcasm then get over to the 'be mean' thread! I am in desperate need for some decent competition there.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

If you want to use your switchblade sarcasm then get over to the 'be mean' thread! I am in desperate need for some decent competition there.

OH! POST HASTE!

 

[Dentan]

My bad for coming off abrasive, its just my writing style or possibly how I act from time to time (especially when people are attacking me as a person, which I feel is the very core of my being)

One flaw of mine is that on occasion I totally forget a piece of information which messes things up.

I'm considered a pretty polar person because of how I come off to some (abrasive)
When people who are not playing around (even acting out of concern) falsely attack my character and imply/assume faulty reasons for my actions
I have the need to defend myself because I feel its unjust and that it's my right as an individual to assert myself.
If they're just playing around I'll be fun and play around too (nowadays)
But when they say stuff behind my back (because they're not willing to say it to my face) it annoys me, would you want to have to deal with more or less false rumors about you going around?
At times, when people attempt to point out my flaws or try to play me off,
I'll just use my intuition to play there game and win (unless they keep using illegitimate tactics like cutting me off/ talking over me)
And I also try not to fake friendliness to people who are two faced against me (even if its because they're not willing to be a true brother and explain with objectivity what the problem is)


Yeah the mega dump came off wrong.
Didn't think about how I would be viewed by people for doing that.
One flaw of mine is that from time to time I totally miss out on a significant piece of information and it messes stuff up.

Although a personal flaw of mine doesn't discredit anything I expressed (of course).
I guess I was a little too enthusiastic because when I started reading articles on this forum
I started to realize this is a good community for people to express themselves.

brain enclosed in flesh, thanks man. Its nice to know I have your attention.
You don't necessarily have to assume everyone is real and treat them with proper respect
(assuming something as absolute as that would work more in your disadvantage)
But, if the person is able to hold an argument logically, give him a little more benefit of doubt
Thanks

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

no problem. I was in a weird mood. I think I kind of forgot why I came here in the first place. If people had behaved to my posts as I did to yours- well, I'm not sure how I would have reacted but I can't imagine it would have felt so good. I do still feel mildly snubbed here, though. But I suppose that makes sense considering I just came in here a couple of weeks ago or something and there's plenty who've been chatting for forever. Whatever. Maybe it's that paranoia acting up again...

 

[Toad]

I'm not going to apologize...but I respect you as a human being.

 

[Dentan]

thanks guys, I'm sincerely glad to hear that

 

[Kidege]

@Brain:

Sry to hear you feel snubbed. May I introduce myself? I'm Kidege, and I've been here for 10 months, which is a big record for me. I like it when people are polite, and I like it when people make long essay-like posts for the sole purpose of rational discussion. I also like it when they make silly posts, but only when I know they're capable of posting the essays and capable of rational discussion.

Um, you'll find out more about me if you ask or read old posts, or if we happen to have similar interests and coincide in some threads.... I lurk in the theology bits, and post in the gender, politics and literature parts.

 

[Carnap]

I honestly don't understand the extent of hostility toward XIII or you.

I have absolutely nothing against XIII, on the contrary.

 

[Felan]

I have absolutely nothing against XIII, on the contrary.

Naturally I didn't mean to include you :P

 

[EditorOne]

"Or go sleep with five other women to inflate your ego even more, what do I care."

Oh, damn, you mean it's HOW MANY? That counts somewhere? I wish someone had told me that. Like 40 years ago. Dang, wrong again. You can't keep score if you don't know how to play the game, I guess....

 

[QSR]

Girls - all I really want is girls
And in the morning it's girls
Cause in the evening it's girls

I like the way that they walk
And it's chill to hear them talk
And I can always make them smile
From White Castle to the Nile

Back in the day
There was this girl around the way
She liked by home-piece M.C.A.
He said he would not give her play
I asked him, "Please?" - he said, "You may."
Her pants were tight and that's ok
If she would dance - I would D.J.
We took a walk down to the bay

I hope she'll say, "Hey me and you should hit the hay!"
I asked her out - she said, "No way!"
I should have probably guessed her gay
So I broke North with no delay
I heard she moved real far away
That was two years ago this May
I seen her just the other day
Jockin' Mike D. to my dismay

Girls - to do the dishes
Girls - to clean up my room
Girls - to do the laundry
Girls - and in the bathroom
Girls - that's all I really want is girls
Two at a time - I want girls
With new wave hairdos - I want girls
I ought to whip out my - girls, girls, girls, girls, girls!

 

[Tyria]

Good luck in your conquests. I'm not sure how many you will find like that though.

 

[Ermine]

Argh! I hate that song!

 

[Wisp]

It IS a pretty stupid song. I agree with Ermine.

 

[QSR]

LOL this forum is absolute proof that the trait of "no sense of humor" is rampant among INTPs.

 

[Mars]

LOL this forum is absolute proof that the trait of "no sense of humor" is rampant among INTPs.

Context my friend, context. They were coming of the back of a tiff on the internet, serious business.

Dentan - yeah it came of as autocratic, I still enjoyed reading it though. Although I could only accept it through the filter of your experience, which leaves a large portion of the subject population to explanation.

But it did help me to understand the female perspective of this supposed power struggle that until now I have only noticed in the male hemisphere of reality, I didn't understand the mechanism for contest.


Note to all: I think it would be worth considering the characteristics of the male described in the OP to gain an understanding of the prevalent gender equivalent that it would attract for the purposes of applying this module for female behaviour.

Wait for it, an analogy. I know, I would consider myself a veritable spendthrift in the distribution of wisdom[questionable as mine may be]. Consider an old style stone wall and the way that it is constructed, each pebble and rock has a place in it and while some may not bear much weight of those above it none the less it guides those around to bear the load with cetainty. Thus knowledge is useless even if complete for the plan needs wisdom to foster viable function.