Forum Mafia Game #2

[Cheeseumpuffs]

right now it looks like Cheesumpuffs is almost buddying me and finding easy obvious things to say.

I'm not buddying you, I'm countering flawed arguments. There are probably very good arguments to be made against you and I won't be countering. The only time's I've jumped in on your side is when there were obvious misunderstandings because apparently I'm the only one familiar with your speaking patterns enough to be able to parse what you're saying.

Can you give your reasons if you don't think I'm scum cheese?

I said I had a slight town read on you (and hado). I'm not ever discounting scum for you (or hado) because I know you're (and hado) a slippery fuck with some level of skill at social manipulation.

Basically the only opinions I've had to form on the game as a whole are that this back and forth between you three (hado, goph, rb) is currently a waste of time for day 1. I think day 1 is better spent pressuring people who aren't constructive (including myself) into working for town more.

 

[redbaron]

You can just quote the post it's in and delete the stuff you aren't trying to quote and the blue arrow is there.

I mean, of all the things to be frustrated about a couple extra clicks on what you're quoting is far from heinous.

1. Go to this post
2. Now start segmenting it and responding as if you're quoting and responding to Gopher.
3. ????
4. Aneurysm

He fixed it, so it's all good :^)

 

[Urakro]

Once I seen this, I had to say something. I haven't read what comes after yet.

Can you give your reasons if you don't think I'm scum cheese?

Gopher, you're being questioned. Another thing you like to do is scum hunt while being questioned, and that looks suspicious as well.

Scum-hunting is good, except while being questioned. I am trying to help you.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

That's your case?

response

Where did I say this? If it's not in quotes it's practically hearsay. I believe I said the initial reason was intuition, aka it looked exactly like what town cheese would have posted. I then went and looked for reasons why my intuition told me that.

response

Well strongest town read was said on the specific instruction he continue the quality in his posting, which just fyi he hasn't and ended up a scum read then he came in with excuses and I'm kinda null right now.

response

Yeah it's totally possible, I was just pointing out that your reasoning was wrong and the reasons for it. When did I ever mention a cheesums-gopher bus? If you can't find the quote I'll assume it doesn't exist. This entire paragraph of yours doesn't make sense to me based on what I remember. At the most all I remember is saying he's just backing me up on the fact we know each other.

response

Why would Cheesums be on the chopping block if for the last day I've started to lean scum? Do you have a case that isn't days old? Have you taken into account any new evidence?

response

Sure I was the first person to vote for bronto and have been very anti lurker. However this could basically be a case against you apart from you coming at me. Instead of me and hado. The problem I've had is while you have heaps of content on me the people I'm most interested in aren't doing what I need them to do so I can make cases on them. Happy, Hado, Helev, ect (although he recently posted something) I've also done far more than you in other regards. Puffy was middle of the pack active, I'm literally the most active and this is all you have on me?

response

Well that's obviously an inside joke, also I think almost all the self voters were town.

That's not my defense tactic that's a minor thing that I bring up because every single town game I get into trouble for being me. My defense tactic has always been based around the motivation of my posts and ideas. Something you have hardly touched on because you can't touch on it and reasonably say I'm scum.

response

 

[The Gopher]

Hmm fair on the page three interaction to an extent. Basically I made a statement. "Cheese did exactly what I would expect as town."

hado was all you gave no reasons noob.

and I was all oh well it was intuition let me find out why.

Then I gave reasons.

End of interaction.

I don't see what's scummy. If someone wants you to be helpful be helpful. That's not a mafia trait.

So wait a second, the part in blue: You can use the argument against me that I'm only going for lurkers...even though I've been going for you when you even admit that you're the most active in the entire thread?



My problem is this: I actually can't read you either way because you've basically just made everything one big clusterfuck of inconsistent and impossible to understand garble. If you stop doing that, then fine. If you keep doing it, I can't ignore it because it keeps raising red flags - I have to ask you A LOT more questions than others to just to get you to say what you actually mean by things.

Also the fact that you are very experienced, good at playing scum and could easily play this game to a mafia victory makes me not want to give you a free pass. In your words, if you were scum would you actually allow yourself to come up red? Probably not - but I really don't know how scum would avoid it. If there's people who can see through your filters, then why not?

I've seen quite a few games where experienced and really good scum players get ousted as scum early on just because they happened across 1 person who happened to be attuned to their particular brand of bullshit. Feel free to make your case, mine's finished - and yes it was primarily to do with the bussing/the inconsistencies in your posting and the way that you seemingly distort what I'm posting.

But again, that's not necessarily a mafia thing and I'd rather not keep lynching people just for being the most inconsistent because it seems to turn out shit.

Well I went after hado and have been when he was really active in the thread. About to the same extent you've gone after me. Hence comparing.

Well I hope to some extent (although he'll be on the wrong side of wifom) hado can actually help with that. If he's being honest he knows how I play town and knows that a lot of this is how I play town.

Also you've kinda halted my case on you for a bit. If most of your reasoning was simply due to a misunderstanding then I can't argue as much that you're mafia who's playing incompetent town since it was just a misunderstanding. I'm still suspicious of you but basically your case has turned into nothing but wifom.

 

[The Gopher]

I'm not buddying you, I'm countering flawed arguments. There are probably very good arguments to be made against you and I won't be countering. The only time's I've jumped in on your side is when there were obvious misunderstandings because apparently I'm the only one familiar with your speaking patterns enough to be able to parse what you're saying.



I said I had a slight town read on you (and hado). I'm not ever discounting scum for you (or hado) because I know you're (and hado) a slippery fuck with some level of skill at social manipulation.

Basically the only opinions I've had to form on the game as a whole are that this back and forth between you three (hado, goph, rb) is currently a waste of time for day 1. I think day 1 is better spent pressuring people who aren't constructive (including myself) into working for town more.

Ehh I actually agree. (depending on how scummy Hado is with his reasoning) But happy hasn't responded with the case he was going to make.... at all... actually I really dislike that. Same with sinny not chiming in on this more. (but part of my reason for sinny is in my post to make when hado does)

So it makes it hard to make cases on other people.

Gopher, you're being questioned. Another thing you like to do is scum hunt while being questioned, and that looks suspicious as well.

Scum-hunting is good, except while being questioned. I am trying to help you.

Okay well. Hado, surely you can actually back me up on this that playing to towns win condition is a good idea. Also it shows that my motivations are in the right place. I don't just scum hunt when being attacked I do it constantly. No reason to stop simply because people suspect me. Now sure throwing shade at people while being questioned is suspicious. But if I've been constantly questioning people over their actions even when not questioned this shouldn't be seen as suspicious.

Also if I didn't scum hunt and the only case was ever on me who else would we lynch? Nobody else is stepping up to the table atm.

Also RB I don't need a free pass I just don't need a well he's a good player potentially so lets kill him in case he's mafia.

 

[Urakro]

It's lame, but I use the cookie jar example:

"Gopher, did you take the cookies from the cookie jar?"

"Well that's an interesting theory", says gopher. "Did you ever consider that dad might snore because he actually has a health condition?"

At this point, the questioner is befuddled and a bit more suspicious. Again, he asks, "Gopher, did you take the cookies from the cookie jar?"

After some deliberation, gopher replies "You know, if I wasn't suspicious of dad's snoring, you'd think I really did take those cookies".

 

[Hadoblado]

Well look. If it's going to be that much wifom is it actually in our best interest to pursue it day one? It makes no sense to vote for someone based on a lot of wifom and you may as well wait til you have actual proof. RB doesn't seem keen on voting for me since apparently I'm not his top target despite his case on me and nobody else. If the people against me can't bring up a case/aren't focused on me then are you even serious about this lynch?

No I'm not saying it will wifom town, I'm saying that I need to phrase things properly and choose what I include carefully to prevent town wifom. It needs to be a clear case otherwise it could do more harm than good.

I am confident I can post this without wifoming town. I'm pretty sure I could get you lynched.

I could refrain from posting it if you like? I mean, I'm only posting it because we made a deal that I would... What do you think? I don't actually want to tip my hand.

What if I posted it just before the lynch? That way, I get to lynch someone in my preferred lynch range day one instead of you. There's no danger of me being NKed before I post it. Me not posting it would look really bad, so you can trust that I will. And town keeps chugging along properly without me polarising the day one lynch. I am basically proposing that your head is on the block day two, instead of day one.

Thoughts?

Re: Urakro
I want you to post, so don't let this dissuade you, but you're very wrong. Scum-hunting is always good. Always. Especially when you're under fire even. Always scum-hunt always. Always.

Scum hunt.

Always.

As to whether I would class what Gopher has been doing as scum-hunting? I really wouldn't. All I see is fluff and an empty OMGUS. When you say 'scum-hunt' I see 'nah man look over there, there's money in dem bushes'. He's had zero conviction in any of his reads, and his vote on bronto was super calculated to push attention away from himself.

Gopher knows that convention states town OMGUS when attacked, and that town scum-hunt when attacked. But his efforts have been less than convincing to fulfill that expectation. There's no life in it.

 

[redbaron]

Hmm fair on the page three interaction to an extent. Basically I made a statement. "Cheese did exactly what I would expect as town."

hado was all you gave no reasons noob.

and I was all oh well it was intuition let me find out why.

Then I gave reasons.

End of interaction.

I don't see what's scummy. If someone wants you to be helpful be helpful. That's not a mafia trait.

That's a fair analysis. The thing I was skeptical of was whether or not you would have gone to that extent of analysis if Hado hadn't pressured you. As I re-read page 3, I was a bit annoyed that Hadoblado had hammered you so damn hard - because then maybe we'd see what level of reasoning you'd provide without prompting. He basically strongarmed you into providing a huge chunk of reasoning, so the more I re-read it, the less I get anything from it.

Well I went after hado and have been when he was really active in the thread. About to the same extent you've gone after me. Hence comparing.

I guess I didn't read your case on Hado that aggressively, because you didn't really ever hammer him for anything despite agreeing with me that it's good to hammer suspects? I don't know your style, but when you say, "hey great idea!" and then proceed to not follow-through it does look scummy. But again, all I'm reading on you is infinite inconsistencies and wifom everywhere.

Well I hope to some extent (although he'll be on the wrong side of wifom) hado can actually help with that. If he's being honest he knows how I play town and knows that a lot of this is how I play town.

Also you've kinda halted my case on you for a bit. If most of your reasoning was simply due to a misunderstanding then I can't argue as much that you're mafia who's playing incompetent town since it was just a misunderstanding. I'm still suspicious of you but basically your case has turned into nothing but wifom.

If you want you can make it anyway. If nothing else, more cases increases clarity for Town and we can move on to hunting better scum targets.

I'll just ask you more questions if you say stuff that's inconsistent, because if you're mafia then this is actually too easy for you because you're everything is wifom with you - so I have no idea if me reading 47 inconsistencies in your posts means anything anymore because the whole bus thing was a mistake by me.

Last game I was certain that a couple of inconsistent people were scum and they weren't, so hopefully if I don't continue tunneling you it turns out to be a case of me learning when to hit the brakes on a tunnel, as opposed to you outplaying me. At the very least if you're mafia and you win, you didn't win by staging a psychotic breakdown...my ego won't take that hit again

 

[The Gopher]

Hahaha, no if that's happening that's fair. Although much exaggerated, I'm pretty sure I do actually answer the questions asked or give reasons why the questions are wrong.

If you want to bring up examples that'll be good case building.

 

[Hadoblado]

@RB
I can answer for Gopher. He would not have done anything.

It is consistent with his meta to not do anything day one. I'm not going to let him this time.

@Gopher
My deal stands to post the case at the end of the day so that town is not pushed too strongly from their natural course. I do demand that you abandon your meta-bullshit and genuinely scum-hunt though. Real hunting. Not wifom. If you want to not die day two, you need to have proven yourself.

 

[The Gopher]

No I'm not saying it will wifom town, I'm saying that I need to phrase things properly and choose what I include carefully to prevent town wifom. It needs to be a clear case otherwise it could do more harm than good.

I am confident I can post this without wifoming town. I'm pretty sure I could get you lynched.

I could refrain from posting it if you like? I mean, I'm only posting it because we made a deal that I would... What do you think? I don't actually want to tip my hand.

What if I posted it just before the lynch? That way, I get to lynch someone in my preferred lynch range day one instead of you. There's no danger of me being NKed before I post it. Me not posting it would look really bad, so you can trust that I will. And town keeps chugging along properly without me polarising the day one lynch. I am basically proposing that your head is on the block day two, instead of day one.

Thoughts?

Re: Urakro
I want you to post, so don't let this dissuade you, but you're very wrong. Scum-hunting is always good. Always. Especially when you're under fire even. Always scum-hunt always. Always.

Scum hunt.

Always.

As to whether I would class what Gopher has been doing as scum-hunting? I really wouldn't. All I see is fluff and an empty OMGUS. When you say 'scum-hunt' I see 'nah man look over there, there's money in dem bushes'. He's had zero conviction in any of his reads, and his vote on bronto was super calculated to push attention away from himself.

Gopher knows that convention states town OMGUS when attacked, and that town scum-hunt when attacked. But his efforts have been less than convincing to fulfill that expectation. There's no life in it.

Well I want the case. That said if you decide it's best to hold off and do what you say I'm not going to have a problem with it as long as you at least answer the questions I asked earlier.

Also I didn't need to vote bronto you already shifted the focus off me by refusing to make the case for a day. I agree there's less life in it because the people I really want to attack aren't posting what they think. Basically Happy, he said he would answer my questions and has done nothing for nearly a day now.

I guess I didn't read your case on Hado that aggressively, because you didn't really ever hammer him for anything despite agreeing with me that it's good to hammer suspects? I don't know your style, but when you say, "hey great idea!" and then proceed to not follow-through it does look scummy. But again, all I'm reading on you is infinite inconsistencies and wifom everywhere.



If you want you can make it anyway. If nothing else, more cases increases clarity for Town and we can move on to hunting be

When did I say great idea? Also the hado case was laced with sarcasm but basically I was attacking him for actually doing nothing while appearing like he was doing stuff. I expect more from hado.

 

[redbaron]

Tbh it really was the potential bus that tied it together. It looked like you could be trying to maneuver yourself into a spot where you could divide Hado from Cheeseums (easy done because Hado called the wagon on Cheeseums) and basically make the town forever struggle to get majority votes.

If I see you say stuff that other people don't already question, I'll question it.

 

[Hadoblado]

Lol so your case was sarcasm but you were attacking me for doing nothing while appearing to do something?

K.

Oh and it was me that pulled attention off you? You didn't need to do anything. How does it feel so speak dem words while all the attention is squarely on you? It's kinda funny how you're using that as a defense when, if it were true, you'd have no need to defend yourself.

Do you accept the deal or not? None of this 'I don't mind' bullshit. Yes or no? I won't be seen as pussying out here. I'm prepared to post it when I'm done immediately. I will not let you sell this as my wishywashyness. Do you want your head on the block day one, or on day two? I would prefer day two, but I'll pull the trigger today if you wanna play martyr/victim. I swear on me mum.
- I want this deal
- Town gopher wants this deal
- Scum gopher wants this deal
Stop this bullshit posturing and speak your damn mind.

 

[redbaron]

When did I say great idea? Also the hado case was laced with sarcasm but basically I was attacking him for actually doing nothing while appearing like he was doing stuff. I expect more from hado.

I described how I thought Town should play:

My stance is the same as it was last game: that it's impossible to discern between terrible town and actual mafia, so if someone looks like they're not pulling weight then you hammer them until you either see reason to put the hammer down, or you continue until all 206 of their mafioso bones are shattered.

Your response:

To RB, good position. Where's your hammer?

You applauded the position, but never took it up yourself, just flipped the onus back onto me. Either it's not your gameplan or you don't really think it's a good position. It still does look suspect to me, especially now that you've just admitted your case against Hado was just calling him out for not doing what you expect him to do - you mean you didn't even have him as a scum read?

No real hammering involved, despite you thinking it's a good position? Is that because you don't think it's actually a good position? Why aren't you adopting the position you call good? Do you have a better position? If so, what?

These are the inconsistent things I'm talking about. You say one thing matters, then don't do it. Or you say that if you were mafia you wouldn't be able to be read as mafia, but it's a fact that even good mafia players can get read as mafia. Maybe you won't get lynched, but to have certain people simply read you as mafia is surely not a huge stretch of the imagination?

Have you legitimately just not been read as mafia early on in a game where you're scum before?

These are the sorts of questions I've been mulling over all game - your posts to me are the most confusing in the game, but they aren't necessarily the most scummy. Your interaction style is difficult for me to parse and I think this is a problem I'd have regardless of if you're town or mafia.

 

[The Gopher]

@RB
I can answer for Gopher. He would not have done anything.

It is consistent with his meta to not do anything day one. I'm not going to let him this time.

@Gopher
My deal stands to post the case at the end of the day so that town is not pushed too strongly from their natural course. I do demand that you abandon your meta-bullshit and genuinely scum-hunt though. Real hunting. Not wifom. If you want to not die day two, you need to have proven yourself.

Okay it's obvious now you completely don't understand my meta or even what meta means.

My meta developed because I know the best way for me personally to play town to have the highest winrate. I can't abandon meta bull-shit because when I'm actually playing town the meta is just what I do. I don't follow the meta as town the meta follows me.

I do a heap day one. Not the type of thing you want but I've been setting traps, gathering data, making a few cases, forcing people to talk, attempting to make a lurker lynch threatening, looking at people I think are town and reevaluation. (Helvete once I realised he hadn't posted anything of substance)

Just because my cases are on you and people you think are town doesn't mean I'm not doing them.

I have a 0% scum lynch rate on day one and two. I have a 100% scum lynch rate on day four. Yes I kinda cruise the first day in terms of hardcore scum hunting but I put in 100% into every aspect that sets me up to win later. That's because I'm a selfish town that has only had himself to rely on in so many games. The fact I only win games day four is generally it's because I have to rely on myself to work everything out and make the case is because I'm used to playing with horrible town.

Sorry went on a rant. Basically I'm not playing my meta. The way I play town is the reason my meta exists. Now sure I can break it and hunt for scum more. Play to a different style. If you're mafia this can only help you as it puts me off my winning formula. (although I could get nk'd day one...) However if you're town it's understandable because I can also sneak past with it.

But yeah basically I am hunting for scum my way AND I'm hunting for scum your way. If you're only satisfied with your own style of play then you're playing the wrong game. People are different.


No the case wasn't sarcasm I was sarcastically talking about how great you were as "Town" to highlight why I thought you were mafia.

I want the case.

 

[The Gopher]

You applauded the position, but never took it up yourself, just flipped the onus back onto me. Either it's not your gameplan or you don't really think it's a good position. It still does look suspect to me, especially now that you've just admitted your case against Hado was just calling him out for not doing what you expect him to do - you mean you didn't even have him as a scum read?

No real hammering involved, despite you thinking it's a good position? Is that because you don't think it's actually a good position? Why aren't you adopting the position you call good? Do you have a better position? If so, what?

These are the inconsistent things I'm talking about. You say one thing matters, then don't do it. Or you say that if you were mafia you wouldn't be able to be read as mafia, but it's a fact that even good mafia players can get read as mafia. Maybe you won't get lynched, but to have certain people simply read you as mafia is surely not a huge stretch of the imagination?

Have you legitimately just not been read as mafia early on in a game where you're scum before?

These are the sorts of questions I've been mulling over all game - your posts to me are the most confusing in the game, but they aren't necessarily the most scummy. Your interaction style is difficult for me to parse and I think this is a problem I'd have regardless of if you're town or mafia.

Oh right. Pretty sure I was hammering Hado over the head about his past inactivity. I then hammered Helevte and Cheese and Happy particularly constantly over the head. If hado isn't doing things I expect him to do I'm basically dropping a hammer on him. I've wanted to hammer him for days over (all the reasons I keep listing) but he's made it difficult.

I think in passing. Generally it's day three I end up in trouble when I'm playing mafia since I can't keep up this level of conversation for that long.

also here's the post I was going to post about the reasoning I thought hado had but obviously doesn't at this point.

To hado.


Basically I thought you were baiting people. You wanted to see how many people would jump on the bandwagon mindlessly or come up with their own reasons before there was actual reasoning from someone else. I was the best one to pick for that because assuming you thought I was town you would know I would be overly suspicious of your actions thus creating viable conflict for mafia to try and sneak by in and get caught by your trap. (I was also doing the 1-13 trap partly because it’s something scum find easy to answer and partly because I did actually want that information)

The reason I came up with this is because apart from all your coasting and transparency issues and not giving cases or seemingly being suspicious about more than one or two people and power hording and town lurking reasons.... well apart from all of that which you supposedly have an answer for you didn't see scum. Basically if I take away all the scummy things you’ve done and said you’ll explain I can’t really find anything scummy, which is convenient but again waiting for those reasons.

Also if you are town, town lurker strategy could be trap setting and maybe you just adapted it. Also as town I saw no reason I was apparently crimson however that's more iffy since Urako who seems townish now was also bothered by me before I answered his questions.

(I hope in your post you completely cover all of those questions I asked way back btw)

 

[The Gopher]

Oh also voting for bronto to pressure him. Basically my problem is people aren't giving me enough to hammer. hado literally stopped me hammering for an entire day and now wants to wait another day before answering my questions. I've been hammering him constantly about the fact he won't answer them until it became pointless.

 

[The Gopher]

Oh ebwop I mean only being suspicious about 1-2 people.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

hey guys before i reply to the mountain heap of questions you left for me and also make my helvete post...jesus...i have a suggestion

you 3(hado rb gopher) are focusing too much on each other, it's making my life and other people's lives difficult. you are all difficult to read and i see you're having trouble reading eachother too. i was planning on not doing any mental gymnastics on you 3 until day 2 starts, i figured i can only start getting a clearer picture of your motives when you inevitably get more strongly involved with others outside your group. but now im thinking, why dont you three hold off your cases against eachother for now and focus more on others in the game? i think that would ultimately also help you get a better read on each other, and would also help others to start getting a better picture of where you 3 stand

 

[The Gopher]

ebwop

or seemingly not being suspicious about more than one or two people

But yeah that entire paragraph. What good reason does anybody have for that? I've waited all day for the answer. Now it looks like he wants to avoid it and wait another day. Maybe he'll nk me night one and then sail on freely. I want to be able to hammer him. I really do. Same with Happy. If happy comes back with nothing I'll want to lynch him straight up.

Also Rb Hado is really experienced as well. Honestly has probably played more games than me at this point. How are you confident he's town reading what I've said and looking at what he's doing?

 

[Urakro]

Okay, so sinny is not here and 'under the weather'. Funny, she was fine in the pre-game, even right up to the last page.

Helvete said in the pre-game, that he's applying for a new job. How did the new job go?

Happy is an architect. Though for fun, I did a username search on every person and filtered question marks in this game. Everyone seems to be asking roughly around the same amount of questions, except happy, who's '? per post' is drastically near nothing. I don't know what to make of that or what that really means exactly. I guess he's just not asking anybody questions.

I don't see Reluctantly around very often. And I was in the pre-game looking for her excuse for just drifting around. The only read I have on her is that she works on weekdays.

Some amateur statement analysis:

kk, so let's see. Right now there's really nothing to go on. Mafia have no history of voting patterns, inconsistencies, contradictions, etc. yet. So it looks like for a first lynch it'll be kind of a flimsy guess.

Don't you mean, mafia has no history of voting patterns?

People were so sure last game about so many people and ended up nabbing zero mafia. That's terrible. I'd like to avoid that.

That's weird. Was that a micro-expression?

 

[The Gopher]

Hurm. Well that's two "outsiders" now. I mean I agree I'm not planning on lynching hado despite him being my top scum read simply because day two is much better for the active lynches however I do want the questions answered.

If you can do both. So we have my questions answered now then case right before lynch (although it's majority so might be funny) I'll be happy with it. You can post in twilight anyway right?

That way you can't get away with changing everything once peoples positions change but we can focus on others.

 

[The Gopher]

We can even do a half case now half case later deal!

Yeah I'm unhappy with sinny and Happy. Now I've posted about it Sinny went straight for my post 1-13 reads bait which could be over-zealous town however she's hardly responded to questions about her reasoning about that. Honestly though in the back of my head if she is town and if hado is mafia I kinda want her alive.

That's why Happy is my biggest complaint. I understand he has time problems but it just seems enough of nothing and with the low ? per post meaning he isn't hunting for scum as much it's not a great sign.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

when you start questioning others, you will be able to develop more concrete cases against eachother, so you'll be basically doing both. just dont only focus on eachother

 

[The Gopher]

I'm beginning to think hado started the case realised he didn't have much and is stalling. But that said logically it's best to start it fresh on day two. Then again letting it hang for a day without response would also benefit mafia.

I'll go with the majority of other people then and say leave the case for today and post it later but if you can post answers to questions or have a way of proving what you are saying now isn't edited later. (aka keep a change log) then I'll be fine.

 

[PmjPmj]

As per my posts yesterday, I won't be around much today. I'll try to be active in the evening.

@Dude with avatar of morphing insect w/ tits:

I don't really have to explain. Are you clutching at straws or something now? I believe I have already stated why, and if I did not address that explicitly then it should have been obvious by now. TL;DR:

wasn't prepared for this sort of intensity; do not have the luxury of knowing Sinny; past experience has taught me that anyone posting lists / being overly helpful is likely a mafia player. But that's all conjecture, and I have long since retracted my vote for her (which was a joke vote, btw). I don't understand why you're pressuring me on a non-issue.

To me, it looks like you're desperately trying to remain relevant somehow. Attempting to blend in by pointing a shaky finger at me, perhaps?

IDK. We can duke it out later.

 

[The Gopher]

when you start questioning others, you will be able to develop more concrete cases against eachother, so you'll be basically doing both. just dont only focus on eachother

True, and the voting will reveal patterns as well. It's good to have this high profile disagreement day one but it is best left to day two now I've considered it. I just lose out on pressure on hado to come up with good reasons as he gets an extra two days.

 

[Sinny91]

Sinny is here, and feeling a little better.

Check your facts.

Attitude in coming ... after the morning coffee.

 

[The Gopher]

vote Happy

Should be obvious. I was waiting until he posted again but I'm sick of that. I could wait 12 hours but at this point I may as well make myself clear.

Side note Jenny if you have time, do you know your vote is currently on happy? Do you still think badly of happy or is that the old troll vote.

Also yay Sinny! Good to know you were just asleep I look forward to your attitude.

Also Cheese. (took a while to get around to this for obvious reasons) Sure correcting arguments that are clearly bad is good but if that's all you're doing it looks bad.

 

[Helvete]

hey guys before i reply to the mountain heap of questions you left for me and also make my helvete post...jesus...i have a suggestion

you 3(hado rb gopher) are focusing too much on each other, it's making my life and other people's lives difficult. you are all difficult to read and i see you're having trouble reading eachother too. i was planning on not doing any mental gymnastics on you 3 until day 2 starts, i figured i can only start getting a clearer picture of your motives when you inevitably get more strongly involved with others outside your group. but now im thinking, why dont you three hold off your cases against eachother for now and focus more on others in the game? i think that would ultimately also help you get a better read on each other, and would also help others to start getting a better picture of where you 3 stand

Lol just make your post on me already and change the subject

 

[redbaron]

when you start questioning others, you will be able to develop more concrete cases against eachother, so you'll be basically doing both. just dont only focus on eachother

Protecting one of your scum buddies?

But okay, fair enough since my case against Gopher is pretty much resolved at this point because I can't glean a solid case from his responses and I have nothing else to really go off.

Speaking of other cases, time for you to respond to this post.

 

[Hadoblado]

K.

In good faith I'll give the read that I talked about earlier, which is red baron.

I'm not pursuing the read now, for the same reasons I'm not pursuing the case on gopher. I don't want to lynch the most active players on day one.

It essentially comes down to him waiting a long time to do anything but bark at lurkers. Then buddying up to me again claiming 'if I were scum he'd see through it immediately'. While I'm not confident he wouldn't catch me as scum, a player on their second game has no business being that confident they could catch an experienced player without issue. To me it sounds like reasoning not to question my alignment, making it easier to buddy me and together control town once more, except this time with him sheltering malicious intent.

Since then he's done a lot more, but honestly none of it's been as strong as he was last game. I haven't payed too much attention, since I've been preoccupied, but nothing he's done has stood out as sharp as what it did previously. My read has not really developed like my one on gopher has, but that's to be expected given the direction of my attention.

I am scared of being claimed by availability bias. My two biggest suspicions are on two of the other biggest posters.

I think it good practice to instead turn to the people in the middle of the pack. There has been a lot of interesting posts there, though admittedly I've been distracted from them.

 

[The Gopher]

Huh. Okay I can deal with that, similar to some of my thoughts on the issues.

I also wouldn't mind also knowing simply for curiosity's sake what lurker strat you were planning for town.

Yeah non of the bigger posters last game were mafia although with me that gets completely thrown out as you well know.

That said there is statistically almost certainty mafia in the middle of the pack. What are your thoughts on Happy? (and I'll wait for sinny) Specifically regarding the thoughts I've given over the last day if you remember them.

 

[Hadoblado]

RB and Gopher, I'm moving for us all to ignore each other for now, and to take it up again day two. You on board?

I think we can safely ignore Urakro as a lynch target too. He's got a lot of posts, and a lot of them are very townish.

Assuming Bronto gets NKed, that leaves a lynch pool of Jenny, PMJ, Cheeseum, Sinny, Zerk, Helvete, Reluctantly, and Happy.

@People that are in the pool
Assuming the people at the top agree (and no, we're not confirming each other town), you need to show everyone what you can do. Hunt as much as possible. Survival of the fittest.

 

[Urakro]

Sinny is here, and feeling a little better.

Check your facts.

Attitude in coming ... after the morning coffee.

Hey sinny. I'm glad you're feeling better. Maybe by the end of the day, we find the boozer around here. I have beer in the fridge, and I'll be having a drink with ya.

 

[Hadoblado]

Fair. I happen to have it sitting there from what I've completed of my case+reveal:

Okay I guess I better reveal. I wanted more to happen, but it seems other people are of a similar temperament to me in wanting to keep some things close to their chest.
The reason I wanted to lurk: Because INTPf has an issue with proactivity. That sounds stupid but hear me out. Last game everything kinda revolved around me. That was intentional, but honestly I didn’t have to try very hard. It is the nature of many people here to sit back, observe, and wait. This is not good for town.

This game I don’t want everything revolving around me. I don’t want to run for mayor. I think by being so center stage it deprives other players of the opportunity to prove themselves. Nobody is going to be as aggressive as I can be, I’m the loudest in the room always. You guys can make all sorts of cases, and the reasoning can be perfect, but I simply yell louder and with more conviction. This is how it works IRL too. The person who is assertive and confident gets the attention (I’m not like this IRL).

So how to have an atmosphere in which people are actively doing stuff, but I’m not bullying them into doing stuff? I opted for some rather base reverse psychology. I make an obvious ploy of lurking. The people who are decent at the game see the ploy and leave me alone to do it. The people who are less experienced and not as settled see it and suspect it. It’s an obvious direction for town to go. They then have a punching bag to lay into. “How could you be so authoritarian game 1 and then be a lurker day 2?”. They’re eased into a rhythm of actually hunting scum, all the while generating the content that can then be used to question each other. In short, I was trying to circumvent the ritual day one flippancy that it’s so easy to fall victim to.

I then reveal, demonstrating that the reasons for a scum hado to lurk are ill conceived by posting at my normal rate (proving I’m not afraid to post). RB and Gopher then back what I’m doing regardless of their alignment (they have to because I know they’d understand and contradicting me would be scum tip off).

Another aim was to avoid the wrath of Sinny, who equates influence with scuminess.

Then I brainfarted, and thought that I wasn’t going to have comfortable time for the redemption phase. So I broke cover and went for simple plane aggression. I tried to avoid accruing authoritative momentum, but as you can see by Sinny’s list, the two filter dredges on me, and the people waiting on my reveal, it seems I’ve failed.

I didn’t need to bark at lurkers, as RB had that niche covered.

I didn’t need to encourage lurkers and demi lurkers, because gopher had that niche covered.
I did encourage lurkers a bit, playing good cop (not a crumb) to RB’s bad. I stand by my stated position that I do not want to lynch inactives.

I refrained from casing gopher, or from even moving in the direction of my second read at that time (redbaron), because I knew by the end of the day they’d be very active, and I don’t like voting players that are very active. I also wanted to see people actually make their own cases instead of jumping on mine. I’m not saying that the people who jumped on Gopher are just following me, because I don’t think that’s true. But when I make cases, it polarises town which is an easy state for scum to manipulate from given enough time. I don’t want to lead you, I just want to have the things I say evaluated at their own merit.

I'd like to add that this town environment feels a lot healthier in general than last game, even with all the people who are truly struggling. People are getting better, which is great.

 

[QuickTwist]

RB and Gopher, I'm moving for us all to ignore each other for now, and to take it up again day two. You on board?

I think we can safely ignore Urakro as a lynch target too. He's got a lot of posts, and a lot of them are very townish.

Assuming Bronto gets NKed, that leaves a lynch pool of Jenny, PMJ, Cheeseum, Sinny, Zerk, Helvete, Reluctantly, and Happy.

@People that are in the pool
Assuming the people at the top agree (and no, we're not confirming each other town), you need to show everyone what you can do. Hunt as much as possible. Survival of the fittest.

I have sent a warning to Bronto saying he needs to make 3 posts by 6/11 at 3AM CST or he is getting modkilled.

 

[Sinny91]

Okay, to everyone who has asked or pointed FOS:

Why have I been 'under the weather'? Why have I been 'lurking', why am I not 'all guns blazing', why am I so 'indecisive'?, where have I been the last 11 hours??

Come on. All the answers are already available to you, if you just use your noggins.

Multitude of reasons for me being under the weather, shall I bore you with them all?

But yea, anyway, 3 bags of weed will subdue an individual, haha. And I've been working hard, manual labour... Doing a thousand things at once, but not offering you a thousand excuses.

I was online for 40 hours, at your beck and call. I only crashed for 11 hours, and now I'm back..

I already told you, I didn't have any strong mafia reads. I've been here, watching, observing, round the clock. I have built in bullshit detection, and it will get triggered, when it gets triggered. Am I no longer sticking to my guns? Bitch, please. I always stick to my guns. I won't be peer pressured into making a bunch of claims and cases I DONT HAVE, on day one no less.

And yes, Jenny, I learned a few lessons in playing game one. Mafia will just kick back and relax whilst we all turn on each other. Look at the pissing contest that is Hado and Gopher. And predictable scanrio, which is ongoing and a distraction.

I don't have the patience frivolous social dances. Cut to the chase, get to the point. The point from where I see it is that we only need so much information leading up to day two. Day two and beyond is where the true, meaning patterns can be developed. All this none sense until then is just that, none sense.

As it happens, I now find Zerks behaviour suspicious. Urakro is strong Townie in my books, and he is largely the reason that I have not been as vocal. He's doing a good job leading town.

I like Goph, I get Goph, Gophs a Townie in my gut.

Hado's down more as a bad Townie in my book, more so than Mafia. Barons logic varies from strong to fucking backward all the time. Idk.

That's the point, idk stuff, and I'm being honest about it.

I hope this provides some clarity and consistency.

Happy I'd on my risk assessment.

Peace.

 

[redbaron]

Fair assessment, although I don't know what isn't as sharp, so if you're basing it on that - you're going to have to build a case. Last game my apparent 'sharpness' led me to tunneling on three people who turned out to be town. I have to accept that my filter of deciding who is and isn't town is inherently flawed and that I need to choose my tunnels correctly because I didn't accurately predict a single mafia on Day 1 last game.

I spent the entirety of last game on Ruminator's case for lurking and she turned up town. I'm trying to not tunnel one particular person because it just makes it easy for mafia to hitch along for the ride and continue skewing perceptions.

I never suspected Zerkalo or Puffy in Day 1, and there's people who right now I wouldn't suspect...which makes me suspect them.

While I'm not confident he wouldn't catch me as scum, a player on their second game has no business being that confident they could catch an experienced player without issue.

Last game I was pretty confident in my own ability to read, but because I had zero experience at the game I had no way of confirming that I was in any way capable - so at every point where we seemed to have a difference of opinions, I was happy to defer to you.

After the game I realised that a few of my reads were actually correct, and with a few adjustments and if I don't tunnel quite as hard, there'd be no reason I couldn't make other good scum reads. I'm still having trouble discerning town, but I think I'm getting better.

Lack of experience or not, I have confirmation both that I can be good at this game but also that a lot of the methods I was using to read people last game were faulty.

But if you're suspicious, case at me bro.

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah I'm on board for today. I hate lynching active people day one and statistically better to go with the middle ground or lurker. Also agree on Urakro as does... pretty much everyone? There doesn't seem to be anyone who things he's mafia.

Bronto gets mod killed you mean.

Okay I'm gonna re-iterate my thoughts I've already said on some of those people throughout my previous posts.

Jenny, feels town because well it just seems like a genuine don't wanna let down the town reaction to her situation.

Now that said with Cheese it almost feels the opposite probably due to bias. I've talked about him participating in ways that mafia would do to seem active and while they're good things they aren't particularly helpful. That said if he is busy well that sucks.

Sinny... kinda seems different but has been asleep for a while so we'll see.

Still having trouble with my zerk read. Same with helvete although he's famously not said much same with happy who kept promising a response but not delivering and is a scum read atm due to not hunting for scum not posting much content and not delivering as ordered. I've got nothing on reluctantly atm. Null but he's asking creative town questions. PMJ seems scum but all INTJ's do.

My arm is killing me I shouldn't be doing much typing so that's shorter than I wanted.

 

[Urakro]

@People that are in the pool
Assuming the people at the top agree (and no, we're not confirming each other town), you need to show everyone what you can do. Hunt as much as possible. Survival of the fittest.

My biggest suspicion's on zerk. I tried to make it seem like she's more town, but I can't. She just squirms around and gets away.

It seems like she's not even worried about looking bad, which is weird.

 

[redbaron]

Didn't refresh page so my last post was in response to this one:

K.

In good faith I'll give the read that I talked about earlier, which is red baron.

I'm not pursuing the read now, for the same reasons I'm not pursuing the case on gopher. I don't want to lynch the most active players on day one.

It essentially comes down to him waiting a long time to do anything but bark at lurkers. Then buddying up to me again claiming 'if I were scum he'd see through it immediately'. While I'm not confident he wouldn't catch me as scum, a player on their second game has no business being that confident they could catch an experienced player without issue. To me it sounds like reasoning not to question my alignment, making it easier to buddy me and together control town once more, except this time with him sheltering malicious intent.

Since then he's done a lot more, but honestly none of it's been as strong as he was last game. I haven't payed too much attention, since I've been preoccupied, but nothing he's done has stood out as sharp as what it did previously. My read has not really developed like my one on gopher has, but that's to be expected given the direction of my attention.

I am scared of being claimed by availability bias. My two biggest suspicions are on two of the other biggest posters.

I think it good practice to instead turn to the people in the middle of the pack. There has been a lot of interesting posts there, though admittedly I've been distracted from them.

That said I'm happy to go with this:

RB and Gopher, I'm moving for us all to ignore each other for now, and to take it up again day two. You on board?

 

[Hadoblado]

That's a pretty empty challenge given I've explicitly stated I don't want to case you or gopher for other reasons.

But fair enough.

 

[The Gopher]

EBWOP to be clear only having a lot of trouble reading Zerk, The same with part was from a previous version I must have changed.

Well that's very clear hado. I am now happier to let things slide until day two.

Okay sinny, lets focus on that. What about Zerk is suspicious to you. I actually agree in that she seems shady but that's only cause I have no idea how to read her.

I think part of the problem is in the 40 hours it didn't seem like you were proactively hunting.

 

[Hadoblado]

Okay we have agreement.

Gopher, you can rest your arm. I specifically want other people posting so that we have a well balanced representation going into day two. I'm also acknowledging to everyone that Gopher's arm excuse is legit - he has to stop gaming all the time because of it. He's already typed more than I would have expected him to so do not suspect this reasoning. I'm pretty sure RB can verify too.

And yes I'm deliberately deescalating for now. This isn't some smarmy BS.

 

[redbaron]

That's a pretty empty challenge given I've explicitly stated I don't want to case you or gopher for other reasons.

But fair enough.

Hadn't refreshed page so didn't see your other post. Thought we were going to fight :^)

 

[redbaron]

Okay we have agreement.

Gopher, you can rest your arm. I specifically want other people posting so that we have a well balanced representation going into day two. I'm also acknowledging to everyone that Gopher's arm excuse is legit - he has to stop gaming all the time because of it. He's already typed more than I would have expected him to so do not suspect this reasoning. I'm pretty sure RB can verify too.

And yes I'm deliberately deescalating for now. This isn't some smarmy BS.

Can confirm Gopher hasn't learned to fight through the shooting nerve pains like true gamers do.

 

[Sinny91]

EBWOP to be clear only having a lot of trouble reading Zerk, The same with part was from a previous version I must have changed.

Well that's very clear hado. I am now happier to let things slide until day two.

Okay sinny, lets focus on that. What about Zerk is suspicious to you. I actually agree in what she seems shady but that's only cause I have no idea how to read her.

I think part of the problem is in the 40 hours it didn't seem like you were proactively hunting.

I can be coldly nonchalant whilst on the hunt Goph

Zerk - The weirdness Urakro outlined. She was doing well in my books, but I can't account for her recent spree of weird voting, and her disappearing acts.

 

[Hadoblado]

I would like to make it clear to everyone in what I am now dubbing the 'day one arena', that the truce at the top is very temporary. It is a day one thing only. Urakro is the only one I read as green up here, there will likely be significant blood letting day two in the emperor's booth. And yes, this is very directed at Sinny, who I know to always resent anyone taking a position of privilege, though it applies to others too. This is merely a suspension of aggression.

So to the gladiators:

Sinny
JennyWocky
Cheeseumpuffs
Zerkalo
Helvete
Pmj
Reluctantly
Happy


Please, have at it. There is only a temporary truce at the top, it's normal to be suspicious of people that step back, but the reality is that none of us were getting lynched day one. All we've done is acknowledge as much so that we can stop tunneling lynches we didn't actually want (for day one) and let you guys have the floor to provide the town with information. Whether that be who you discover to be scum, or the townliness you reveal through the action of scum hunting.

I'm not saying to entirely limit your suspicions to these eight, as you can't control who you suspect, but if all you can do is attack people that have already been hammering each other all day you won't be getting extra credit.