Forum Mafia Game #2

[Sinny91]

I would like to know Sinny's stance on this?
Bearing in mind you gave her a town read last game too, what do you see that is different in her play from last game to this game?

Nothing, lol.

She admitted that she didnt over work herself in the last game, she tried to appear pro town, and now she does appear pro town.

Her exit just now is like she would have done in the previous game.. But did she draw mafia twice?

I don't have the answers.

 

[PmjPmj]

Bloody hell, everyone. I can't keep up!

@Pmj
Have you played before and if so, how many times?

Yes, I have. I played the werewolf variant 3 or 4 times about a decade ago (the last game was in 2007, I believe). I am currently in a game elsewhere, but it's as dead as a bloody dodo.

I'm far from experienced, but (aforementioned current game aside) I do have a good track record for spotting the baddies... and being the last man standing when I am one of them. However, I feel that the general intellect here is much higher, and therefore I'll have to be a great deal more vigilant.

@Gopher apologies, but I have no idea what 'FOS' is.

 

[Sinny91]

I don’t have time to go through and select specific quotes, but:

Someone asked me what I thought of Sinny’s list (1)
Someone asked me to comment further (2)

1: Not much. The reasoning is within 2.

2: It’s day one. There is no lynch for another two days (I believe). Effectively, all people are doing at the moment is running around, banging drums and throwing wild accusations at one another. Either I’m missing something here, or you’re a bunch of unbelievably inept players who fail to understand both the nature of the game and other meatbags.

Let’s look at this realistically:

Mafia games are - regardless of whether you want to believe this or not - a popularity contest, just like many other things in life. Such is the nature of humans.

Therefore, I would recommend some investigative probing as to who has ‘insies’ with QT; find that out, and you’re likely to have a fair punt at who has a special role (this includes mafia). From there, we can monitor those people and their behaviour. This is of course operating outside the parameters of the game and could therefore perhaps be construed as cheating, but it’s certainly an avenue to explore for those with time. Insights garnered could be kept on the back burner to hopefully make better informed future decisions.

Speculative: people like myself (on the outside of the community) have very little / no hope in hell of getting anything other than a generic townie role. This isn’t verifiable to any real degree for obvious reasons, but… I mean, it is kind of obvious. I barely know anyone here. I’m therefore a wildcard; I’m not going to be trusted with a ‘fun’ role because QT has no idea who I am or what I’m about. I’d be a risk to his game. Unwise move on his part to elect me as anything other than a boring role. If you don’t see any validity to this reasoning, you’re wrong.

Secondly, one does not simply make an informed decision re: the first lynch. Or the second, most often. Everyone is an unknown. All we can do is sit back and let the patterns reveal themselves. Humans are fallible, and even the best mafia players will trip over themselves eventually if pressure is applied in the right places.

All we have to go on at the moment is how a person votes. At this stage in the game, that is likely an arbitrary decision at best, and anybody - mafia included - have plenty of wriggle-room to claim that it was an oopsie and move on unhindered.

It’s too early in the game, and there isn’t enough data. Some of you have insights into one another’s character, and that’s cool - but I’m shooting blind. That I am not yet contributing anything of worth does not preclude the possibility that I’m sat here, odd interjection aside, weighing arguments and observing behaviour. Patterns will inevitably emerge.

All of this ruckus may be fun, but it’s misguided. There seems to be this idea that by speaking up and defending yourself, you’re less likely to be a mafia player. What? Are you joking? This humdrum is fertile grounds for mafia. You don’t know shit about who’s who yet. You’re operating on shaky beliefs and a distinct lack of data.

The patterns will reveal themselves. Sit down, shut up and watch. The first lynch may not be telling; the second may be largely uneventful - but by the third, I’m willing to bet we can start getting a clearer picture of who’s who.

Do I have any suspicions thus far?

Yes, but I need to see more. My vote for Sinny remains in place, because (bearing in mind I’m operating on limited data) I immediately distrust anyone who asserts themselves as some kind of authority (oh the hypocrisy) in an overt manner. I don’t know if she’s town or not - nobody does. It’s all a shit shoot.

Again, apologies for incoherence. I’m typing in work and keep getting interrupted.

TL;DR your approach is ineffective and you’re all shit.

<3

Lol, where here have I claimed to be an authority?

I'm an authority only over myself, and that's only at the best of times.

 

[Urakro]

Bearing in mind you gave her a town read last game too, what do you see that is different in her play from last game to this game?

Not much difference. Perhaps, she a little more involved than last time.

When I specced last game, I was using very simple guidelines for picking people out. Zerk managed to fly by those guidelines. She was posting, appearing to be helpful, etc.

I've now thrown away those simple guidelines. Zerk hasn't made a huge effort to seem town, or in any ways that I'm convinced.

 

[PmjPmj]

Lol, where here have I claimed to be an authority?

I'm an authority only over myself, and that's only at the best of times.

Figure of speech.

When a person presents their suspects in such an overt manner, it always piques my interest. Again, I'm not saying you are mafia. What I am saying is that - like everyone else - I do not have enough data to go on right now. I will continue to observe and contribute when I can. In the unlikely event that a clearer picture is gleaned, I will change my vote. If not, I'll leave it in place because it will likely turn out to be innocuous anyway (unless other people start stacking against you, in which case I would remove if I didn't have enough of a clue).

I know I keep saying it, but apologies for incoherence and rushed posts. Yes, I do have meetings. I run a department, I have a wife, a two year old and a 9 week old. I am rather busy

My initial posts are simply indicative of my RL character. I like to take the piss, because I'm a bit of a troll.

 

[Hadoblado]

I don’t have time to go through and select specific quotes, but:

Someone asked me what I thought of Sinny’s list (1)
Someone asked me to comment further (2)

1: Not much. The reasoning is within 2.

2: It’s day one. There is no lynch for another two days (I believe). Effectively, all people are doing at the moment is running around, banging drums and throwing wild accusations at one another. Either I’m missing something here, or you’re a bunch of unbelievably inept players who fail to understand both the nature of the game and other meatbags.

Let’s look at this realistically:

Mafia games are - regardless of whether you want to believe this or not - a popularity contest, just like many other things in life. Such is the nature of humans.

Therefore, I would recommend some investigative probing as to who has ‘insies’ with QT; find that out, and you’re likely to have a fair punt at who has a special role (this includes mafia). From there, we can monitor those people and their behaviour. This is of course operating outside the parameters of the game and could therefore perhaps be construed as cheating, but it’s certainly an avenue to explore for those with time. Insights garnered could be kept on the back burner to hopefully make better informed future decisions.

Speculative: people like myself (on the outside of the community) have very little / no hope in hell of getting anything other than a generic townie role. This isn’t verifiable to any real degree for obvious reasons, but… I mean, it is kind of obvious. I barely know anyone here. I’m therefore a wildcard; I’m not going to be trusted with a ‘fun’ role because QT has no idea who I am or what I’m about. I’d be a risk to his game. Unwise move on his part to elect me as anything other than a boring role. If you don’t see any validity to this reasoning, you’re wrong.

Secondly, one does not simply make an informed decision re: the first lynch. Or the second, most often. Everyone is an unknown. All we can do is sit back and let the patterns reveal themselves. Humans are fallible, and even the best mafia players will trip over themselves eventually if pressure is applied in the right places.

All we have to go on at the moment is how a person votes. At this stage in the game, that is likely an arbitrary decision at best, and anybody - mafia included - have plenty of wriggle-room to claim that it was an oopsie and move on unhindered.

It’s too early in the game, and there isn’t enough data. Some of you have insights into one another’s character, and that’s cool - but I’m shooting blind. That I am not yet contributing anything of worth does not preclude the possibility that I’m sat here, odd interjection aside, weighing arguments and observing behaviour. Patterns will inevitably emerge.

All of this ruckus may be fun, but it’s misguided. There seems to be this idea that by speaking up and defending yourself, you’re less likely to be a mafia player. What? Are you joking? This humdrum is fertile grounds for mafia. You don’t know shit about who’s who yet. You’re operating on shaky beliefs and a distinct lack of data.

The patterns will reveal themselves. Sit down, shut up and watch. The first lynch may not be telling; the second may be largely uneventful - but by the third, I’m willing to bet we can start getting a clearer picture of who’s who.

Do I have any suspicions thus far?

Yes, but I need to see more. My vote for Sinny remains in place, because (bearing in mind I’m operating on limited data) I immediately distrust anyone who asserts themselves as some kind of authority (oh the hypocrisy) in an overt manner. I don’t know if she’s town or not - nobody does. It’s all a shit shoot.

Again, apologies for incoherence. I’m typing in work and keep getting interrupted.

TL;DR your approach is ineffective and you’re all shit.

<3

Oh shit I hadn't thought about that.

Everyone shut up now. No more posting. We need to stop and watch. Wait what were we watching? Oh yeah, nothing. We are watching nothing to get clues about something.

1) do nothing
2) watch nothing transpire
3) lynch off the information we don't have
4) make meaningful conclusions off the lynch we made off no information
5) repeat
6) ???
7) profit!

So I guess my question is, if you, as a town want to sit there and watch, why would you want us to stop giving you something to watch? I mean, if we sit down, shut up, and watch, how are you supposed to find scum at all ever?

My second question is not a question. It's a statement.

Roles are RNGed. I have absolute faith in QT to RNG the roles as he promised he would. His approach to this game is one of heavy handed authenticity. I'm not denying that on other sites people are handpicked, but QT would not do that after having said specifically that he wouldn't do that. As evidence, I'd point to there being no correlation between his favourites and roles last game. If that were the case, Sinny would have got a role.

 

[Reluctantly]

Therefore, I would recommend some investigative probing as to who has ‘insies’ with QT; find that out, and you’re likely to have a fair punt at who has a special role (this includes mafia). From there, we can monitor those people and their behaviour. This is of course operating outside the parameters of the game and could therefore perhaps be construed as cheating, but it’s certainly an avenue to explore for those with time. Insights garnered could be kept on the back burner to hopefully make better informed future decisions.

I disagree. How someone starts the game can be telling. An inexperienced mafia might take a moment to adapt to their mafia role. Town have no role to adapt to, start the game off fresh and in the dark, looking to gain trust and decipher other town. It would be silly for them to try and be deceiving with the other town players.

Speculative: people like myself (on the outside of the community) have very little / no hope in hell of getting anything other than a generic townie role. This isn’t verifiable to any real degree for obvious reasons, but… I mean, it is kind of obvious. I barely know anyone here. I’m therefore a wildcard; I’m not going to be trusted with a ‘fun’ role because QT has no idea who I am or what I’m about. I’d be a risk to his game. Unwise move on his part to elect me as anything other than a boring role. If you don’t see any validity to this reasoning, you’re wrong.

This is INTPforum...your argument is invalid.

Do I have any suspicions thus far?

Yes, but I need to see more. My vote for Sinny remains in place, because (bearing in mind I’m operating on limited data) I immediately distrust anyone who asserts themselves as some kind of authority (oh the hypocrisy) in an overt manner. I don’t know if she’s town or not - nobody does. It’s all a shit shoot.

Explain. Because as of right now that's a shit observation. Sinny's stance is much more rebellious. She actually voted Hado last game because he was too much of an authority figure. And she's doing the same shit here with the same reasoning against Hado.

 

[The Gopher]

I assume that Jenny was just getting warmed up. She was in an amused mood in the pre mafia thread, I presume that the amused mood spilled over into the start of this game.

I was under the impression that she was looking forward to playing. Not sure what came up... Maybe she could return yet.

Yeah I hope it's nothing bad.

I don’t have time to go through and select specific quotes, but:

Someone asked me what I thought of Sinny’s list (1)
Someone asked me to comment further (2)

1: Not much. The reasoning is within 2.

2: It’s day one. There is no lynch for another two days (I believe). Effectively, all people are doing at the moment is running around, banging drums and throwing wild accusations at one another. Either I’m missing something here, or you’re a bunch of unbelievably inept players who fail to understand both the nature of the game and other meatbags.

Let’s look at this realistically:

Mafia games are - regardless of whether you want to believe this or not - a popularity contest, just like many other things in life. Such is the nature of humans.

Therefore, I would recommend some investigative probing as to who has ‘insies’ with QT; find that out, and you’re likely to have a fair punt at who has a special role (this includes mafia). From there, we can monitor those people and their behaviour. This is of course operating outside the parameters of the game and could therefore perhaps be construed as cheating, but it’s certainly an avenue to explore for those with time. Insights garnered could be kept on the back burner to hopefully make better informed future decisions.

Speculative: people like myself (on the outside of the community) have very little / no hope in hell of getting anything other than a generic townie role. This isn’t verifiable to any real degree for obvious reasons, but… I mean, it is kind of obvious. I barely know anyone here. I’m therefore a wildcard; I’m not going to be trusted with a ‘fun’ role because QT has no idea who I am or what I’m about. I’d be a risk to his game. Unwise move on his part to elect me as anything other than a boring role. If you don’t see any validity to this reasoning, you’re wrong.

Secondly, one does not simply make an informed decision re: the first lynch. Or the second, most often. Everyone is an unknown. All we can do is sit back and let the patterns reveal themselves. Humans are fallible, and even the best mafia players will trip over themselves eventually if pressure is applied in the right places.

All we have to go on at the moment is how a person votes. At this stage in the game, that is likely an arbitrary decision at best, and anybody - mafia included - have plenty of wriggle-room to claim that it was an oopsie and move on unhindered.

It’s too early in the game, and there isn’t enough data. Some of you have insights into one another’s character, and that’s cool - but I’m shooting blind. That I am not yet contributing anything of worth does not preclude the possibility that I’m sat here, odd interjection aside, weighing arguments and observing behaviour. Patterns will inevitably emerge.

All of this ruckus may be fun, but it’s misguided. There seems to be this idea that by speaking up and defending yourself, you’re less likely to be a mafia player. What? Are you joking? This humdrum is fertile grounds for mafia. You don’t know shit about who’s who yet. You’re operating on shaky beliefs and a distinct lack of data.

The patterns will reveal themselves. Sit down, shut up and watch. The first lynch may not be telling; the second may be largely uneventful - but by the third, I’m willing to bet we can start getting a clearer picture of who’s who.

Do I have any suspicions thus far?

Yes, but I need to see more. My vote for Sinny remains in place, because (bearing in mind I’m operating on limited data) I immediately distrust anyone who asserts themselves as some kind of authority (oh the hypocrisy) in an overt manner. I don’t know if she’s town or not - nobody does. It’s all a shit shoot.

Again, apologies for incoherence. I’m typing in work and keep getting interrupted.

TL;DR your approach is ineffective and you’re all shit.

<3

What? Just so you know it's completely randomly generated (who gets what role), I made sure. Imagine if we all took your approach. Would it work?

"The patterns will reveal themselves. Sit down, shut up and watch. The first lynch may not be telling; the second may be largely uneventful - but by the third, I’m willing to bet we can start getting a clearer picture of who’s who."

If we all sit down shut up and watch... then the voting will be random and there won't be any pattern's. This isn't IRL mafia where you can visibly see people and pattern's you need to create the patterns by forcing people to give reasons for suspicions.

No seriously have other people read this? Forget lurker lynching this could turn into a scum lynch if this keeps up.

Also: Lynching mafia is possible day one. Don't give up on that dream. Just don't bank on it. Just focus on increasing the chance of us lynching mafia, and assume the worst case scenario where we don't. I don't know the statistics for this, but they're not damning for town. Gopher probably knows them.

I actually don't. I think lynching mafia helps mafia somehow, lynching town helps town. (not intentionally of course just how the stats work) And yeah you don't really want to lynch a lurker but it's way better than a no lynch I've I've taken a "call the bluff" style this game.

 

[PmjPmj]

Jesus, I can't keep up.

Firstly, I didn't literally mean everyone shut up. Stop being so pedantic. All I'm saying is that, in all likelihood, no good information will come out of day one. It's just a bunch of shit-lobbing at walls.

lolled @ the 'argument is invalid' because of INTPf forum. Fair enough

Clearly, I'm among more experienced players here who also know one another to a fair degree. If you want to make something of my post, go ahead - lynch me. I'm struggling for time anyway. I'd happily respond to all of this later, but by then there will be another 10 pages or more.

Person with the SCII (maybe) avatar: I don't need to explain, as I already have. I'm basing my vote on limited data and the previous experience of playing with individuals who promoted a very helpful front / turned out to be mafia. My vote, like anyone else's at the moment, is largely BS and subject to change.

Fuck me you guys are intense.

 

[PmjPmj]

Oh and thanks for clearing up the role generation thing.

My bad. Again, I wouldn't know as I haven't been around these parts enough. I certainly appreciate the fairness.

 

[The Gopher]

Okay sure even if there's nothing wrong with most of what you're saying you still are just saying stuff that doesn't matter. Stuff that mafia like to say to appear active.

 

[Hadoblado]

If you want to make something of my post, go ahead - lynch me

DO NOT YOU FUCKING DARE MARTYR YOURSELF MOTHERFUCKER PLAY THE FUCKING GAME

If you martyr my vote is on you and will not budge given rain nor hail nor storm. You play to your win condition and you don't pull stupid shit like this.

I'm off to drag onwards through dungeons. Peace.

 

[PmjPmj]

Srs bsns here, eh?

Fair enough, but allow me some wriggle room with time etc. I can't be expected to defend myself against 3+ people whilst simultaneously running a busy IT department. I'm good, but I'm not that good.

All of this pressure... at first I thought it was some bullshit mafia tactic, but now I realise you guys take this far more seriously than I expected. Which is 'interesting' to say the least.

I'll play your fucking game, you mafia shitbag. I'm fucking coming for you.

 

[Hadoblado]

Wriggle room for time given. You've got 40 hours+.

Okay now I'm gone (not really... still waiting for lift, but I will be!).

 

[Reluctantly]

Srs bsns here, eh?

Fair enough, but allow me some wriggle room with time etc. I can't be expected to defend myself against 3+ people whilst simultaneously running a busy IT department. I'm good, but I'm not that good.

All of this pressure... at first I thought it was some bullshit mafia tactic, but now I realise you guys take this far more seriously than I expected. Which is 'interesting' to say the least.

I'll play your fucking game, you mafia shitbag. I'm fucking coming for you.

 

[Happy]

Hado out
Happy in

Finished work and just started my almost 2 hour commute (with 32% battery) let's see if I can make it last.

Any questions: fire away!

 

[PmjPmj]

I was not prepared

 

[Reluctantly]

Any questions: fire away!

r u mafia? Why or why not.

 

[Happy]

r u mafia? Why or why not.

I'm not Mafia.
Reason: Because QT didn't give me any of those roles.

 

[Reluctantly]

So what are your reads right now? What are you thinking?

 

[The Gopher]

Srs bsns here, eh?

Fair enough, but allow me some wriggle room with time etc. I can't be expected to defend myself against 3+ people whilst simultaneously running a busy IT department. I'm good, but I'm not that good.

All of this pressure... at first I thought it was some bullshit mafia tactic, but now I realise you guys take this far more seriously than I expected. Which is 'interesting' to say the least.

I'll play your fucking game, you mafia shitbag. I'm fucking coming for you.

Oh this is serious bsns. Just so you know. The amount of time you have is plenty of time. If the amount of posting you've done had all been used in ways that were pro-town and useful there would never be a problem. It's just until this point you've basically done nothing but get acclimatized which if you're posting little isn't great..

There are people who make 3-5 posts per day that are seen as perfectly town and people who make 20+ posts that are called lurkers. It's all about the content and your reasons for doing what you do. Again to be clear if your content and motives had all been pro town this conversation wouldn't exist.

Also yay happy's back! I wanted to look into him. Mirroring reluctantly what do you think of the things that have gone on?

 

[Happy]

So what are your reads right now? What are you thinking?

To be honest, I don't have any solid reads yet. In saying that, I also haven't dedicated the time to sitting down and analysing posts properly and discerning patterns. I'll do this once I get some alone time with a notepad.

My radar is pointing at Cheesypoofs, Helmet, Sinead and Gough as potential scum. These will be the first that I investigate (unfortunately I'm not a cop, so I won't be able to ascertain anything for certain).

I don't think zerkalo is scum this time round. Hado and RB are of course on my radar, but I need more content. havent formed any opinions about reluctantly, ukakro or Jennywocky yet. I don't think PMJ is scum yet (I'm trying to read him as if he were one of my INTJ friends). I'm curious to see how bronto announces himself.

For now I'm leaving my vote on Gopher for teh lulz

 

[Happy]

Also, stop calling Cheeseumpuffs "cheese". There's already a user called that and it's annoying the detail oriented part of me...

 

[PmjPmj]

I just started to type up a word document with current suspicions and the like (I outsourced some work, because fuck it - it's Friday) but the truth is I'm operating on a massive deficit here. I can't state this enough: you guys seem to know one another, and I really don't.

Thus, I fail to see how I can make a compelling case right now on such limited data.

I think Hado is intense, which could mean he's a highly motivated townsperson or a great mafia player... or that could just be his character. I think Gopher is a nice guy and probably a townsperson, as he's far more chill and I get the good vibes from him. I think Sinny is far too cool to get a read on. I think Reluctantly is a bit of a troll like me, just sat back laughing at all the shit being flung.

Bear with me. Lots of thinking to do.

Useless post perhaps, but at least you know where I'm up to in my thinking. Sorta.

 

[The Gopher]

Well it's a start Not knowing each other can actually be an advantage. With hado for instance I'm so caught up in Wifom I would probably read him town if not for his whole not going to make a case on you and another mysterious person for another day or so. (real time)

 

[The Gopher]

To be honest, I don't have any solid reads yet. In saying that, I also haven't dedicated the time to sitting down and analysing posts properly and discerning patterns. I'll do this once I get some alone time with a notepad.

My radar is pointing at Cheesypoofs, Helmet, Sinead and Gough as potential scum. These will be the first that I investigate (unfortunately I'm not a cop, so I won't be able to ascertain anything for certain).

I don't think zerkalo is scum this time round. Hado and RB are of course on my radar, but I need more content. havent formed any opinions about reluctantly, ukakro or Jennywocky yet. I don't think PMJ is scum yet (I'm trying to read him as if he were one of my INTJ friends). I'm curious to see how bronto announces himself.

For now I'm leaving my vote on Gopher for teh lulz

Okay that's cool and all but mafia find it very easy to be vaguely suspicious without giving reasons. I would like those reasons if you find the time.

Also, stop calling Cheeseumpuffs "cheese". There's already a user called that and it's annoying the detail oriented part of me...

I'll try, How about we call him Puffy?

 

[Happy]

You're right that some players know each other.

But they're only few in number.

Otherwise, it's just assumptions made about another person on the Internet. You could always start stalking people by looking at their post history if it's that big a deal to you.

 

[Happy]

Sure goph. Ask me any questions and I will answer them.

I'm not going to blindly give my opinions about every person just to prove I'm paying attention. Give me some criteria to respond to and I will.

 

[The Gopher]

Sure goph. Ask me any questions and I will answer them.

I'm not going to blindly give my opinions about every person just to prove I'm paying attention. Give me some criteria to respond to and I will.

Why not that's what I would do and I'm town.

Okay I can't read Zerk well. Why do you think she isn't scum this time?

"My radar is pointing at Cheesypoofs, Helmet, Sinead and Gough as potential scum."

Why is Cheeseypoofs scum? Even if it's just intuition I want to know.

Why is Helmet scum?

Why is Sinead scum?

Why is Gough scum?

This is lazy scum hunting at best mafia at worst. If you can come up with reasons for your opinions then good. If not then?

You know there are only three scum right? Which are your top three? (although that doesn't matter so much)

I don't even care about these questions as much as I care about you giving reasons behind your reads. Stick to the top two if you want. Or just one. If you were going to lynch somebody right now who would it be?

 

[PmjPmj]

Yes, there's a good idea: ask me questions. If I can consolidate everything down in to a b...

LOL, full J mode there.

Fire away. Ask questions and I will respond in a (hopefully) timely manner.

 

[PmjPmj]

Condense, even. Not consolidate.

*needs more coffee*

 

[The Gopher]

Yes, there's a good idea: ask me questions. If I can consolidate everything down in to a b...

LOL, full J mode there.

Fire away. Ask questions and I will respond in a (hopefully) timely manner.

What do you think about Happy and zerk? these are two of the people I have the most trouble reading yet am kinda suspicious of but I don't know why.

Also don't just answer questions ask them! Be proactive look for scum!

That said I have far too much time on my hands and am starting to burn out so I might take a break for a bit. (he says before he comes back in 5 minutes) but I was going to look into happy and zergs posts like I did with hado but right now I'm burnt out.

 

[Happy]

Why not that's what I would do and I'm town.

Okay I can't read Zerk well. Why do you think she isn't scum this time?

"My radar is pointing at Cheesypoofs, Helmet, Sinead and Gough as potential scum."

Why is Cheeseypoofs scum? Even if it's just intuition I want to know.

Why is Helmet scum?

Why is Sinead scum?

Why is Gough scum?

This is lazy scum hunting at best mafia at worst. If you can come up with reasons for your opinions then good. If not then?

You know there are only three scum right? Which are your top three? (although that doesn't matter so much)

I don't even care about these questions as much as I care about you giving reasons behind your reads. Stick to the top two if you want. Or just one. If you were going to lynch somebody right now who would it be?

Of course it's lazy scum hunting. I already addressed that. I haven't had an opportunity to sit down and analyse yet (I've had a bunch of projects dumped on me at work this week and more to come. With so much on my mind, I haven't exactly had the mental capacity to analyse this). The weekend is here though.

You've also just asked a lot of questions, so let me think on them and I will respond to you later tonight. I have 10% battery and I'm about to begin my second commute for this evening. Need to conserve battery. Will respond properly once I get back to my iPad in a couple hours.

 

[Helvete]

I'm going out for a while and may comment later before bed, if not then the weekend.

 

[The Gopher]

Okay np Happy. I'm a little trigger happy maybe. That while a reasonable reason... is also a reason scum can use to avoid saying things and I wanted to make sure it didn't slip past unnoticed without you clarifying later.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

oky explanation:
i was testing waters with my last vote
i think urakro has set himself up in a way that could make him an easily opportunistic vote
basically everything he's done can be interpreted as both mafia and town
so i wanted to see if someone would join me if i conveniently lays the foundations for an opportunistic vote
im just going to be honest now and say i was testing sinny and cheese as i had a hunch atleast one of them would join
but im retracting all of that, and laying this out in the open, before i let it sit out for a decent period of time, because looking back...i thought that up in a rush and i now think i set up useless bait that would not have generated meaningful results atleast not this early in the game so yeah herp derp

You haven't really made anything really that convincing that you are for-sure town.

what are you expecting on day 1? how can anyone possibly look for-sure town at this stage? actually looking for sure town on day 1 is what a mafia would be going for anyway


ok i will now get back to serious voting...im going to rape helvete's filter...not like i'll find anything there but that's the point

 

[Sinny91]

Did I pass the test? Lol

 

[PmjPmj]

I re-read (most) of the thread. My head was thumping by that point, so I went for a walk.

During said walk, I realised that something was bothering me.

Let’s cut the bullshit here, look at things objectively - nobody knows a damn thing at the moment, and that will not change until someone hangs and their role is subsequently revealed. Thus, these exchanges are nought but hot air and a lot of noise, but no real substance. For all I know, mafia players could be riffing off one another to create the illusion of conflict.

Hadoblado: cut the shit. You clearly attempt to stand for the people of the town having used the ‘royal we’ on a few occasions, but I personally do not know who or what you are, and I’m not buying your bullshit. Seeking to assert yourself as some kind of spokesperson isn’t even a ballsy move… it’s a rather obvious one - moreso when you have the support of others.

You tore into my earlier point about patterns revealing themselves. You were wrong. The second someone hangs, I can investigate who was arguing with who. No matter how small, some insight may be gleaned. Theoretically, patterns should become clearer with each subsequent hanging. If I make the wrong decision and fuck up, on my head be it - at least I’m still (hopefully) learning something. Your fervent manner is, to me, a blatant attempt to brute force your way to centre stage. Why? There is a clear motive here, and I'm not convinced you have the town's best interest at heart.

For now, I stand alone. I do not appreciate anyone speaking on my behalf. You’d all be wise to remember this for yourselves. Quite frankly, I don’t trust any of you - and I’m highly suspicious of anyone who forms a trust bond at the moment.

Fucking…

<insert Spiderman ‘comeatmebro.jpg’ here>

Unvote Sinny
Vote Hadoblado, because you sir smell of shit most putrid.

(probably not IRL <3)

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

actually never mind i dont have the patience nor time to do post by post analysis of helvete :/ but anyway i'll make my points:
-what i dont like about helvete is that so far he comes across as very null and im inclined to write that off as a scum-leaning read
-says he doesnt like people posting their lists, as mafia could take advantage, but is also responsible(sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly) for the pressure that made most players so far produce their lists
-if you look through helvete's filter it's very difficult to even come up with questions because he has generated no input himself so far. i think it's quite abnormal for town to not openly express distrust towards atleast one player. all he's done so far that comes close to that is exerting very soft pressure on happy in like...the first few posts
-also helvete prefers a lurker mislynch rather than an active mislynch...which i find weird becuase, save for bronto, i think everyone's shown readiness to get involved. i dont think we need to worry about bronto, QT will get him modkilled or replaced if he remains inactive. but other than bronto, everyone expressed readiness to answer other people's questions when theyre free...i guess this is a very weak point but just putting it out there



ok i guess i need to ask you questions then to make you talk
who are your main suspects so far and why?
what did you look to gain from asking happy about my stance on lynching? hado answered this but you didnt
why a lurker mislynch? wouldnt that generate zero input for us for the next game? and anyway what lurker do you have in mind for a lynch?

also i want to apologise to urakro i think i was being an ass to u so far

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Did I pass the test? Lol

like i said i realized i set up a stupid/useless test

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Artsu Tharaz wins!

 

[The Gopher]

Well at least now it's obvious why I spend so much time trying to generate discussion. I'll look into Hev first since it's probably best to do it while other people have it fresh in their minds.


Also Artsu want to replace Jenny? Pm QT.

 

[The Gopher]

Also careful about posting in mafia threads if you aren't playing. Some places ban for that.

 

[The Gopher]

Okay I've looked through all of Hel's posts. NOTHING'S THERE. Not even hyperbole. Now sure I would love to ask people questions for days and I am somehow amazed Helv seems so town or neutral with little to no content and not making any solid points he would have to justify. We have one day and 18 hours left when you get back I actually would like you to start stating your position and reads. Not 1-13 as that arguably might help scum but you've been gathering information you need to start using it soon or else you'll look like... well you look like an SK actually but we don't have on in this game. (Serial killer, basically third party that wants to go by unnoticed)

Now sure for some reason you just seem town maybe your intention comes across somehow but it is concerning and if you are town and don't use the knowledge you have if someone was to NK you again we wouldn't be able to read it well.

 

[The Gopher]

So I don't care as much about the lurker questions but to mirror zerk you need to start making reads and getting actively involved. You aren't an observer you're a player.

Helvete. Who do you think is scum? Why? (now I'm the one asking questions again)

I'll read Zerk's next cause I think if I get a handle on her it might help things.

 

[The Gopher]

how does asking "what is your strategy", out in the open like this, help town-game though?
if townies actually cater to your question, mafia would have much more to gain

Okay well I read through it. Now I have the opposite problem to Helvete. I though she was slightly scummy but I'm finding it hard to justify. Maybe it's the liberal use of i and I and u that's throwing me off...

The only thing is that if townies seems to be almost third person-ish. Then again mafia might specifically talk in first person.

The other thing to note is the whole bait thing. Either that's genuine bait and evidence of a town motivation trying to hunt scum (clever if it is) or it's a reason for throwing out a vote without a reason. (also clever if it is)

What do other people think about the whole bait theory? What do other people think about Helevte only asking questions and not giving reads? I only skim read last game and it was a while ago was he like this then?

 

[The Gopher]

Okay, so we've yet to hear a defence from either Gopher or Jennywocky, leaving me very suspicious of Cheesypoofs, and all Hado has offered is a conspicuous silence, indicating that Sinny(Gopher edit his EBWOP said CHEESYPOOFS) is either right or wrong.

because i was rambling nonsensically, trying to rouse discussion.
.

Okay I went through happy's, actually more content than Helvate. I guess my judgement should be reserved for when he actually posts his thoughts and answers the questions.

 

[The Gopher]

Ahh great now it looks like I'm on an elevator. What I meant to say in the last post is those two posts are the most suspicious things and that was in the trolling stage.

I will shut up now but other people please talk.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm still monitoring the thread until I can be replaced, I know the silence screws everyone over. Sorry.

Yes, my enthusiasm of off-game stuff on INTPf filtered into play yesterday, especially with trying on different styles and determining what worked for me. Everyone's got their own way to play; I needed to find mine; I was trying to sound cool and edgy, but... face it, I'm not, really. So back to me.

I wrote something up awhile ago but didn't post because it all seems so redundant. I'm locked in WIFOM loops -- there are levels of complexity I didn't anticipate (n00b!). Obscurity of any kind creates a mystery; honest remarks aren't taken at face value; everything is suspect. I usually overthink, and then by the time I'm reading to post, the conversation has gone elsewhere or someone posts what I wanted to say so now it just sounds like I'm aping them, which is frustrating.

I'll post them anyway:

- I distrust personas, they come across as type of spin. Probably why Hado always feels a bit scummy. His advice seems generally reliable, it's the domineering tone that makes me leery. He feels like he's always acting a role even if the content is good.

- Same thing with experienced players. Can't tell whether they're being straightforward or spinning me. Gopher seems really Town to me (he's typically pretty balanced, casual, seems fair for much of his questions), but he's also a good enough player that I have to wonder if I am being had... Paranoia = don't trust anyone. But he hasn't really made any missteps I can see.

- Lurkers. I don't know wth Bronto has been doing. Why increase (versus allay) suspicion? Then again, this is typical Bronto...

- Playing shit town to have fun. Yeah, it might be fun, but why unnecessarily increase suspicion? Overall, I think PMJ was just screwing off and then buckled down. (See below.)

- It's funny how Hel scans as town but has contributed so little content. It's like a mind in a room observing and piecing together things -- information goes in, but it doesn't come out again. And always, "oh, I'll be back far later." It could be nothing. It could be everything.

- Odds of Zerk drawing the same straw twice seems a bit low, but mostly her input was tossing out votes without basis until sometime this morning, which was suspicious. Her explanation is possible but still rather convoluted. Did she finally decide to come out with an explanation because she was called out? Or maybe she's just still learning.

- Urk also had that whole convoluted mess yesterday that was as confusing as hell to read, even though he seems more on the level today. Which Urk can I trust?

The others are in that vague "ehhhhh" where I don't feel like I have enough yet from them.

All this was knocking around in my head, and then PMJ came right out and said it this morning:

Let’s cut the bullshit here, look at things objectively - nobody knows a damn thing at the moment, and that will not change until someone hangs and their role is subsequently revealed. Thus, these exchanges are nought but hot air and a lot of noise, but no real substance. For all I know, mafia players could be riffing off one another to create the illusion of conflict.

Yeah. Exactly. It's all words. I was sitting here looking at all this, and that's why it's a real pain in the ass for me to sort out and why I'm feeling discombobulated right now -- it's all words with no reliable foundation to evaluate. Until something gets anchored (i.e., once people start getting removed and hard data exposed), you can't trust anything; it's all total speculation.

Which ends up being pretty frustrating, because my natural bent is to want to cut through all that, but it's how the game is played.

 

[Jennywocky]

Forgot to include that also folks who played in the last game seem to be pretty similar to their play style last time. (Hado eased up a bit this time, but Sinny, Zerk, RB, and whoever else... they all seem close to the very limited baseline I have for them.)

I'm also vague on Happy. He hasn't said anything wrong, but his answers have been amicably non-committal and he always seems to be commuting. He promises to report more later, so a reassessment would occur then. My vote for him was a shit vote (a bunch of us made silly votes when the thread opened), but I'll leave it there for right now to hold his toes over the fire...
　

What do other people think about the whole bait theory? What do other people think about Helevte only asking questions and not giving reads? I only skim read last game and it was a while ago was he like this then?

Maybe someone trying to be too clever would try to set bait, so yeah, it raises a concern. It's like one of those football chalkboard diagrams with too many lines in it, or a "trap" as Wile E. Coyote would envision it.

I evaluate by buckets. Someone does something suspicious, I toss an appropriate-sized rock in their bucket; when they do something that seems positive, I take out an appropriate-sized rock. When the bucket is heavy enough, then that's a probable read.

I noted my concerns about Helvete above.