Forum Mafia Game #2

[The Gopher]

Okay, that makes more sense to me, although it's kind of just basic play strategy... For some reason, I thought you were suggesting some kind of artificial ruleset (versus inherent rules, like the ones Hadoblecho describes) and I had no idea what you were imagining.

You know this far in I would expect more scum hunting going on. Who do you have reads on?

At this point I have more 'terrible town' reads than there are mafia in the game, along with 3 lurkers. I'm sure there's mafia in there somewhere (I don't think both Hado and Gopher are mafia, one maybe but I doubt both) but I want to at least let the lurkers pipe up this time before I start tunneling.

I like this overall post much more content. Just to clear something up though if I was mafia hado and I could totally both be mafia. If hado was mafia even then there's like a 50% chance he would mild bus on an early case to establish animosity.

Gopher,

Your acting just like puffy did the last game. Being soft and agreeable to the most active posters, and playing devil's advocate. You are not convincing me that you are town, and I'd like you to.

Good point. Well minus the agreeable part. I haven't made any cases and haven't given my opinion explicitly. I have however thrown shade and Jenny, you, hado, RB and am about to at Sinny. I am playing almost exactly the way I play mafia. However I play mafia the way I play town.

I need direction. I need to know how best I can help the town. Ask me questions, make me form opinions on people, make me defend myself, I don't care. Just help me be useful.

Okay what's your opinion on Hado so far?

And I'm not forgetting about gopher, who I want to get here, and tell me why he's playing like a spectator with no role in the game. He's posted lots, but consistently not being himself. He's acting like a no-one.

I'm swinging the hammer right down on him, and I'd like him to tell me what his game is.

Well I'm clearly not posting like a spectator with no role. Mafia would talk a lot but about things that don't matter at all. The reason I'm posting is to get people to talk more. Last game it was Hado trying to stimulate town but he's obviously not doing it this game so it falls to me.

Honestly though I don't really have a defense right now as it's all WIFOM. As Mafia I would be active anyway so may as well get everyone else active. As Town I want people talking so I can read them.

Have you ever seen myself play? That said I am more structured than usual.

That's the logic.



...if you're trying to fog up a Town read on yourself, you're doing a great job. maybe you want to try again?

Ikr. Be more aggressive Jenny.

Speaking of people not like themselves what happened to Sinny?

 

[Hadoblado]

Gopher who is your #1 suspect?

 

[Sinny91]

What do you mean?

 

[Hadoblado]

I will give you at least 24 hours before the lynch to respond to it Gopher. There will be no coup. I'm holding off, I have my reasons.

 

[Urakro]

I don't have a strong case against you gopher. In general, I just find your behaving like game #1 puffy and zerk combined.

There are townish players here where it doesn't take me long to understand where they are coming from. I feel them. But I don't feel any conviction from you. It seems like you don't even have a role, but merely just a helper helping people out. Your in here playing, but your very detached. Your distant and foggy.

This thing that I'm trying to describe is actually not in your style of interaction off-game (although to you it may seem to be). Your sticking right out to me, and have raised a red flag.

Are you mafia?

 

[Urakro]

Sorry, I started writing that before everyone decided to post at once.

 

[QuickTwist]

Hi, I am looking for someone to replace Jennywocky. People interested should PM me.

 

[The Gopher]

What do you mean?

Idk I just expected guns blazing fight the establishment. More like last game. Basically I don't think you're playing like last game and I want to know why.

I will give you at least 24 hours before the lynch to respond to it Gopher. There will be no coup. I'm holding off, I have my reasons.

Well now that's concerning... Not for me because once the days get longer there's no way I'm getting lynched but it seems strange you would bet so much on a case like this. Mafia want's to get cases as late as possible to put people on the back foot and give them less time to respond/make a counter case. Also keep in mind this is a majority lynch so how about 30 hours before?

Speaking of, don't lynch someone based off a case when they haven't had time to respond. I wanted to post this at the start because of the Hado situation last game but I forgot.

Now that's out of the way to answer your question... You. I did have urok but he's wifomed me and has legitimate reasons for being suspicious of me which he might not have found if he wasn't genuinely hunting scum. That said you've defended him so you might be both mafia. (but my % chance of finding scum team day 1-2 by association is 0% so I'll ignore that for now)

I'm also not happy with Jenny, RB kicked it up a little with his post and Sinny is slightly different from normal. But those are lighter reads. Oh and I hate PMJ right now (no content at all) but if he's busy to the point it's bad we can always lurker lynch him later, same with bronto. I want both of them in action more.

Cheese is my closest town read so far we'll see how it goes.

No I'm not mafia Urok but that'll become evident soon since we're moving past the first real time day and action is starting to happen. Np.

 

[Hadoblado]

Urakro you shiny golden god

*Points at Urakro*

You see this?

Do this!

Sure he's pressuring the same person I am, but that's better than not pressuring people at all. And he's making his own arguments which make sense.

Urakro is now more town than any of you in my eyes, because he's showing us his process. He suspects someone, he then pressures them. It would have been better if he'd pressured someone not already being pressured, but you can't control your suspicions like that.

Continue

 

[The Gopher]

Hi, I am looking for someone to replace Jennywocky. People interested should PM me.

Great now I feel guilty. I would suggest DP but he's probably already a spectator and it would be totally unfair to have someone that experienced in a new game.

Urakro you shiny golden god

*Points at Urakro*

You see this?

Do this!

Sure he's pressuring the same person I am, but that's better than not pressuring people at all. And he's making his own arguments which make sense.

Urakro is now more town than any of you in my eyes, because he's showing us his process. He suspects someone, he then pressures them. It would have been better if he'd pressured someone not already being pressured, but you can't control your suspicions like that.

Continue

Yeah ikr, assuming he is town he's adapted and doing well now.

 

[Urakro]

I did come to my own conclusions about gopher though hado. I'm using some techniques I learned, and doing a small factor analysis with spreadsheets.

The sucky thing is, I can't let on how I'm doing that, or else people will change their play.

But I'm really confident Gopher is actually hiding something. He is doing something mafia would do, and he doesn't do it outside the game.

Not that my little analysis actually is valid or anything. But I still have confidence in it thus far.

 

[Hadoblado]

24 hours is enough Gopher. That's the entire second half of the day from last game. It doesn't matter that this day phase is longer, 24 hours is enough for you to defend yourself without feeling rushed.

I agree, we shouldn't lynch people based off a case unless they have time to respond.

I'm sorry, but that all came out red to me. Ima need you to do a few things for me:
1) Why is Cheeseum a town read?
2) Why is Urakro a red read?

I know you have a meta to play to, but I can't let you do that. I need you to be useful day one. I need you to be more transparent. Because atm you're not even being your typical hard-to-read self. You're being damn crimson. I wasn't actually planning on pushing for your lynch day one, but your responses have been terrible. Transparency. Now.

 

[Urakro]

EBWOP

I'm confident he's doing something that someone who is hiding something would do. ***

 

[Sinny91]

Idk I just expected guns blazing fight the establishment. More like last game. Basically I don't think you're playing like last game and I want to know why.

Lol, very astute of you. I've done my power assessments, but thus far, no one is wielding too much.

Although, I can see you and Had having a pissing contest.

I've also been super stoned all day.

 

[The Gopher]

24 hours is enough Gopher. That's the entire second half of the day from last game. It doesn't matter that this day phase is longer, 24 hours is enough for you to defend yourself without feeling rushed.

I agree, we shouldn't lynch people based off a case unless they have time to respond.

I'm sorry, but that all came out red to me. Ima need you to do a few things for me:
1) Why is Cheeseum a town read?
2) Why is Urakro a red read?

I know you have a meta to play to, but I can't let you do that. I need you to be useful day one. I need you to be more transparent. Because atm you're not even being your typical hard-to-read self. You're being damn crimson. I wasn't actually planning on pushing for your lynch day one, but your responses have been terrible. Transparency. Now.

Oh I'm not worried about defending myself. By the time we get to that 24 hours you won't have a case anyway. I'm worried about why you're doing that.

Cheeseum is a town read because he exactly did what I expected in his last large post. If he continues that behavior and actively hunts scum he remains someone who's not suspicious enough to look into.

Also reading comprehension dude. Urakro was a red read when he was going all fancy meta on us then it turned out he just meant normal things. Which was either mafia trying to distract then backing out when the heat was on or really confused town. I was reading suspicion on that behavior. His recent behavior has been entirely town. Hence I've stopped pressuring him so he can do his cases. (Even if they're on me) That said he hasn't completely removed suspicion but if he continues like this he will.

 

[Sinny91]

Right then, one last coffee and then I'm off to try to sleep.

 

[The Gopher]

I know you have a meta to play to, but I can't let you do that. I need you to be useful day one. I need you to be more transparent. Because atm you're not even being your typical hard-to-read self. You're being damn crimson. I wasn't actually planning on pushing for your lynch day one, but your responses have been terrible. Transparency. Now.

Okay so I'm not playing my typical hard-to-read self. Instead I'm being crimson. Do you seriously think you would get a crimson read on me if I was actually mafia? Not to insult you but if I'm very hard to read normally, and suddenly I'm really easy and obviously mafia something's wrong on your end. I bet you're playing the meta where you're mafia but need to disqualify me as a threat so you're overplaying how scummy I am.

That said Uroki (also sorry for butchering your name it's a lazy habit) what things am I doing that make it seem like I'm hiding something? The suspicion is there and you're pressuring over it that's good the next thing to do is make a case and back up your claims.

 

[Hadoblado]

1) Be more explicit about Cheeseumpuffs. What did you expect and how did he meet those expectations? I have zero green read on him so far, how have you attained this read that I've missed? Explain how this is inconsistent with a red Cheeseumpuffs.

2) Why do you think I won't have a case anymore? Are you thinking that you'll have done something to warrant you not looking red by that time?

From the way you've responded you've demonstrated that if you're town, you do not have a good idea of what's going on with me. For instance, there was no reading comprehension issue on my side. I was implying that your reasoning for him no longer being a red read was insufficient, and seeing which way you'd go. The reasons you gave for reading him as red were not put to rest by your stated reasons for no longer seeing him as red. The reasons you have now given are sufficient, though one must wonder why you didn't just state those the first time?

@town gopher
Get your shit together. I may not be running for mayor this game but I'm pretty sure I could get you killed if you don't stop fostering your meta at the expense of this game. Last game I forced the lynch on cheeseumpuffs and ESC, but that was their first game. Given that you've got a better winrate than me, if you're unable to show me you're even vaguely not red by the time the lynch comes, this is on you.

 

[Hadoblado]

Stop playing coy. You know I know your operation. You're hard to read for people unfamiliar with it, because you don't receive adequate pressure. I am working with an understanding here, applying the pressure to see what's actually under the hood. And so far it's not looking good for you.

Every time you assume I'm an idiot when I know you know I'm not an idiot, you're making yourself look worse in my eyes. So just stop it k? I'm not saying "I'm smart so listen to me", I'm saying "stop wifoming the others by implying I'm stupid or don't understand". It's manipulative. I know how you work, I can't let you work like that if I want to be able to trust you. You need to be more transparent.

 

[Urakro]

Oh I'm not worried about defending myself. By the time we get to that 24 hours you won't have a case anyway.

.....That said he hasn't completely removed suspicion but if he continues like this he will.

You sound very confident of those things. I think I might even believe you. Confidence is a good way to influence people on your side.

Why is it a good idea to play town as mafia, and mafia as town? This doesn't work well, unless you're mafia.

 

[The Gopher]

Intuition. I've known cheese rather personally for four plus years. However here, doesn't mess around instantly unvotes and changes avatar to be clear. (will talk in green text bwlow

Jesus people, I go to bed at 7 responses and wake up to 100+.

I'm even more behind starting out than I was last game, god dammit.



Done and
unvote Hado
done.







I think the disparity here is just a different way of looking at it. The way I see it (and I assume this is what zerk means as well), everyone starts at 50/50. Either they are mafia or they aren't and there's no real evidence to show this either way so they're at 50%. It's a more intuitive way of playing, I think but I understand that it does lend itself to WIFOM more than just playing the numbers, which is how it seems you're(hado) playing. So essentially I think, at the moment, you guys are saying essentially the same thing but just in different ways.


Doesn't look to sow confusion but clear it up.

I'm pretty sure it's me. I was out with friends last night and ended up coming home to see the game had started. So I confirmed my role and then went in to the thread to see he'd already declared 11/13 confirmed. So if I'm *not* the last to confirm then he made a mistake somewhere.

Again providing information he doesn't need to but could also be a mafia thing with "Öh I can say this and won't get in trouble"

Yeah, he has a habit of doing that



I'm actually kind of attracted to that idea, as I often find it useful to befuddle opposition by turning any game I'm playing on it's head (not relevant, but I do this all the time in Smash Bros by playing like a fucking retard and somehow the absurd and counter-intuitiveness of the timing actually ends up letting me do very well for myself). That said, I think this game itself by its nature turns people on their heads already and a lot of people aren't sure what to think/expect, so jumbling everything up again will only cause problems. If anything, that would be more beneficial to the mafia, as they already know more of what's going on than the rest of us.


Talks sense, seems to act like last game


Yeah, apparently people have a habit of punishing being simple and open.

Still salty, (jk)

<insert stray thought about how Urakro may be trying to act like I acted last game because I turned up town and acting like a controversially deceased town is a decent way to appear town.>
<insert the follow-up thought that I also would totally believe that he's just trying to be open because he's just playing like I would play and that makes 100% sense to me as a playstyle.>

Man, I hate this game.



Because I think he suspicion was an intuitive "hmm, maybe.." and he mentioned it. But then the intuition passed and left him with his dick hanging out so he put it back away.

I did the same thing last game with Sinny, Zerk, and Neb all at different times.

---------------------------------------------------

I'd like to think this post so far has shown my intention to be useful, but I thought my posts last game showed the same and apparently they looked like vague bullshit and got me killed. So here's the thing:

I want to be useful. I want to help the town. But, as the last game showed, I'm really shit at that when I'm left to my own devices. Especially seeing as I'm seemingly operating from a perpetual state of WIFOM.

I need direction. I need to know how best I can help the town. Ask me questions, make me form opinions on people, make me defend myself, I don't care. Just help me be useful.

Okay so assuming he follows up on this when asked questions I see no problem. The issue here is it leaves the burden on others and he could get away without working as hard. As long as he does both no reason to think he's mafia

At this point do we have a best mafia candidate?
Isn't the goal of day 1 essentially to discourage anti-town behavior? (of which being useless is an example of)

If anything, your willingness to unvote pmj is more odd than Urakro taking back his suspicions of you. pmj has gone from being benignly useless to actively useless. Based on your previous play, it would make more sense for you to step the heat on him.

Good point, should stay on PMJ and pressure but he's asleep right now. So far PMJ has done nothing next to only Bronto. No reason to stop pressuring

Also I even though I do think green it's not like shining beacon it's more if he continues to act like town he continues to stay green enough to not be on my radar. This does one of two things. First it means he needs to retain this quality or get lynched for obviously dropping off and second it means if he does I can ignore him for higher targets. It's not so much a green read as a "well I have no reason to be suspicious with all the other fish"

1) Be more explicit about Cheeseumpuffs. What did you expect and how did he meet those expectations? I have zero green read on him so far, how have you attained this read that I've missed? Explain how this is inconsistent with a red Cheeseumpuffs.

2) Why do you think I won't have a case anymore? Are you thinking that you'll have done something to warrant you not looking red by that time?

From the way you've responded you've demonstrated that if you're town, you do not have a good idea of what's going on with me. For instance, there was no reading comprehension issue on my side. I was implying that your reasoning for him no longer being a red read was insufficient, and seeing which way you'd go. The reasons you gave for reading him as red were not put to rest by your stated reasons for no longer seeing him as red. The reasons you have now given are sufficient, though one must wonder why you didn't just state those the first time?

@town gopher
Get your shit together. I may not be running for mayor this game but I'm pretty sure I could get you killed if you don't stop fostering your meta at the expense of this game. Last game I forced the lynch on cheeseumpuffs and ESC, but that was their first game. Given that you've got a better winrate than me, if you're unable to show me you're even vaguely not red by the time the lynch comes, this is on you.

Yes to second point. Okay fair maybe I'm not clearly portraying my intentions in a manner people can understand clearly. That said I generally only do that as Mafia these days since I don't have to worry so much as town. Also if I'm gonna post every second post I may as well clarify anything that's said then instead of potentially wasting time being overly clear to start. Hence you not making a case until 24 hours directly contradicts the flowing conversation style I like. (as both town and mafia admittedly.)

 

[Urakro]

How are you feeling right now, gopher? Are you nervous?

 

[The Gopher]

Well I royally messed up that format.

Stop playing coy. You know I know your operation. You're hard to read for people unfamiliar with it, because you don't receive adequate pressure. I am working with an understanding here, applying the pressure to see what's actually under the hood. And so far it's not looking good for you.

Every time you assume I'm an idiot when I know you know I'm not an idiot, you're making yourself look worse in my eyes. So just stop it k? I'm not saying "I'm smart so listen to me", I'm saying "stop wifoming the others by implying I'm stupid or don't understand". It's manipulative. I know how you work, I can't let you work like that if I want to be able to trust you. You need to be more transparent.

I don't assume you're an idiot I just watched the last game. (that was a joke) It's more you assume I'm an idiot than the other way around. See I know you're not an idiot hence thinking you're mafia. You can't get away with playing the game you're accusing me of playing.

Aka you assumed I'm an idiot mafia who looks really red, I said hah you would have to be an idiot so obviously you're mafia. Then you tried to turn it around. Obviously in this scenario it starts with you and you would be the manipulative one. I would be manipulative AND look town as mafia.

Err anyway lets stop with that can of worms.

You sound very confident of those things. I think I might even believe you. Confidence is a good way to influence people on your side.

Why is it a good idea to play town as mafia, and mafia as town? This doesn't work well, unless you're mafia.

It's not. I'm just saying I play mafia as town not vice versa. But just pointing out the joys of wifom since if I play both the same way. Town as town and mafia as town then both should look the same. Hence why I've completely broken my meta for this game which I wouldn't want to do if I was mafia because hado would instantly freak out. (case in point, which actually means hado could be town... hmm)

and town has no reason to be worried about being lynched if they are confident in their ability to catch scum.

So to that end I might even avoid defending myself and just hunt mafia.

 

[Sinny91]

I get a green read on Cheesums, more so than mafia.

Once again , I get the impression that Hado is unduly tunneling, and being unduly forceful.

Everyone is still on my radar, and I also want more from Bronto, usually can't shut him up, but today, today he's silent...

 

[Hadoblado]

Holy BB code batman.

You know me and know I can't accept your intuition. Your read on Cheeseumpuffs is incredibly weak for an experienced player. He cleared up a confusion? lol.

It sounds at best like you've been wifomed, which should in no way have you seeing him as green. At best, you should get a slight red because you've been wifomed, which is not something a town would want to do to people. You should be suspicious but you are not. I think you called him town because you wanted to shit off a read to make it look like you were doing something.

Was that what you were doing? Transparency please.

By this point it should be obvious that your 'intuition' game doesn't allow me to read you, and for so long as you rely entirely on it I will see you as deliberately obfuscating your motives. Even if you are genuinely a town who has only used intuition up until now, I need you to show me reasoning. Real reasoning. If you haven't got any. you need to go and reason, then show me that reasoning.

 

[The Gopher]

How are you feeling right now, gopher? Are you nervous?

Nope cause I just went through Hado's post's. Case incoming.

Meanwhile Bronto... do something.

Vote Bronto

 

[Sinny91]

Vote Bronto


Did he post his minimum 3?

 

[Urakro]

Nope cause I just went through Hado's post's. Case incoming.

Meanwhile Bronto... do something.

Vote Bronto

Ok, here's the thing. Scout's honour, if you told me you were nervous, I'd really start reconsidering your stance.

Hado went after me at the start of the game, and I was worried I might have gotten a heart-attack. And I'm innocent.

How can you be calm like a cucumber right now? There's two people accusing you of something your not, whether your town or mafia, you should be at least a little nervous. I think you are nervous, but your even trying to cover that up.

The only information I gave you as to why I thought you were mafia, is that I thought you weren't playing a role.

Thing is, when you are being interrogated, the natural thing to do is to answer to your own crimes. I can't count on my fingers how many times during the interrogation you kept trying to scum-hunt other people.

Of course, that is what I said you weren't doing. See why I don't really tell people the real reason I find them suspicious. You changed, and did exactly what I said you weren't doing before, only you were doing it at a really weird time...... during an interrogation.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Apologies for the incredibly delayed post. I’m at work and a coworker is here so I actually have to look busy instead of fucking around here.

I am playing almost exactly the way I play mafia. However I play mafia the way I play town.

was this meant to be intentionally unhelpful or is it just that "saying absolutely nothing but making it look like you're saying something" sense of humor you have.

Okay what's your opinion on Hado so far?

*conspicuous silence*

Step 1: Come lurk with me
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Town win!!

Why won't anyone lurk with me? You people are no fun.

Who's on then? Let's start.

I was planning on lurking more, but just realised I'm not available tomorrow night to make up for it. So I need to do more now.

I’m confused by his stated intention to lurk at the beginning. It fundamentally goes against his previously held convictions that lurking=anti-town. Granted, in a later post he explains that he had intentions for a particular strategy that fell through, but it’s worth being wary of.

1) Asking people about strategy is stupid. Read a guide.

2) If a single one of you idiots votes for yourself you earn my vote immediately as well. So many people voted for themselves last game, but it is pure emotional manipulation/wifom. If you are town, and you martyr this way, then you're shit town. I encourage others to do the same. You shouldn't ever put yourself in a position where this is your only option left. Just hunt scum, as this action serves as both your offense and your defense. My first priority for lynching is manipulative martyrs.

5) @Everyone that played last game, and who specced
You've all played now. I hope you understand that there is good reason for lynching everyday now that you've heard experts say it in the QT who you didn't have reason to suspect were misleading you. I'm trusting that we can unanimously agree that a lynch day one is a useful thing to do.

6) @Everybody
I know you want to do clever things. You can do those clever things, but do so while also hunting scum. If you do not pressure the people around you, this makes you look scummy in my eyes. I would point to kingbossscummafia puffy as the perfect example from last game. He was highly agreeable and rational, but ultimately none of his actions reflected a mindset of someone actually looking for who was mafia.

Seems par-for-the-course Hado. One small thing worth noting is that he cautions against trying to be clever even though he was crafting some special strategy at first. Granted, he’s one of the most experienced players, so he has some more leeway on trying to be clever.

Jenny's done nothing to look like town. I didn't expect her to do so by now so that's fine. Null read.

FOS urakro
You've said a lot of words but all of them have encouraged others to do the thinking for you. I want to see what you think.

Gopher. What do you think of my read on Urakro?

That's a bit wishy washy Zerkalo. What level of read allows you to lynch someone? If someone's a 50/50 in your mind you'd lynch them right?

Seemingly standard Hado

@Gopher
I had some intentions. They would have been fun. I'm not going to explain them because I might use that strategy in some other game, and since it didn't actually happen, it's irrelevant.

Why are you interested in why I wanted to lurk more? How could that possibly lead you to a read? What response would a mafia hado say that a town hado wouldn't, given that both had just admitted and rescinded that intention?

Because dwelling on details of games that failed to happen doesn't seem productive. Reasoning please.

Dwelling on things that haven’t happened isn’t necessarily productive, sure. But the fact that you wanted them to happen and then changed your mind/the circumstances means there’s got to be some kind of thought process behind that. A thought process best made clear and concrete, as it can give us a glimpse at how exactly your plan was pro-town and how exactly your change is more pro-town

Oh... you're right. Or about as right as I was (24 hours off). We need to lynch within 3 days. Which also means I could have lurked more...

QT, could we please get a countdown in the OP?

That moment when you refer to Sinny as being herself, then realise that it was Cheeseumpuffs all along.

I'll consider this evidence to my previous point Cheeseumpuffs. I know it's in fun etc., but it can, has, and will cause confusion. Town Cheeseumpuffs wouldn't want to cause confusion.

A 50/50 is not a null.

Null is a 3/13. A 50/50 is a 6.5/13. 50% certainty is a pretty strong read.

Not super useful posts (for getting a read), imo

I too would be interested in what Happy has to say about zerks stance on lynching.

After Happy is done, I want to hear what gopher thinks about it too.

Yes specifically after Happy. I don't want to tread on Helvete's toes.

I've got my read. Specifically on you Gopher. Providing you with answers would entail me pushing a case on you, which I'm not ready to do yet. I need to see you work for a while longer. It's been a long time since we played together, and I think we were both scum at the time. So I've got to re-read you.

I'm reluctant to make this game as much about me as the last one was, and if I'm the first one to push a hard case it very well could be. I'm content to wait and allow the town to get their shit together.

Tell you what I'll make you a deal? I'll make 'the case' regardless, even if I change my mind and think you come out town. But I don't do it until I have more information. This case will include my thought process from this point in the game, so that you know this isn't me just bullshitting so I don't have to provide anything.

Seems like standard Hado. Asking questions of other people, stating his suspicions but still keeping them relatively close to the chest. I’m super curious to see his case against Goph.

For the record, I'm almost certain the difficulties Artsu spoke of last game were genuine. I don't expect anyone here to lurk to a similar degree.

No response.

@QT
Please don't tell us who the 13th is. I could infer things from that information that could be unfair.

I don’t know what he could infer that would be unfair. He gets the same information that everyone else does. If he can make inferences that no one else can, then that makes him a step ahead which I wouldn’t say is unfair. It’s odd to not capitalize on something which could put you ahead.

That said, it doesn’t say much to his townliness, just his ego.

Thanks on both counts QT! I think I might put that link in my sig so it's ever-present.

Anything.

No response.

unFOS Urakro

Not because you're acting like town, but because your approach is expected this early in the game. This is the same slack I'm cutting Jenny.

Making the game more complicated is a bad idea. It'd be good if we were all well practiced, but people are learning, and the chances town are going to fuck up badly when you turn up the difficulty? Almost certain.

That said having rules that make it harder for mafia is a really good idea, it's like you approached the right conclusion from a different direction. Stuff like:
- don't lurk
- hunt scum
- don't vote for yourself
- don't create needless confusion
- make a lynch every day

Are all things that town should be able to pressure mafia into agreeing to. In that they can't reasonably refuse without attracting suspicion. Meaning town gets to control the terms and conditions without even knowing who town are.

So yeah, you're kind of on the money, but you're still not thinking in practical terms. You want to mess with the fundamental laws of the game when you haven't learned the simple version. Understandable, but not useful.

@Erryone
This all may seem like a bunch of faffing around, but several meaningful things have already happened. I've got a read on Gopher, and I've got another of similar weight that I'm yet to mention. I'm not making a case on either yet, because I need to see action from the less proactive crowd. Last game went to shit for multiple reasons, but one of them was that multiple people didn't see the value in posting early. Yes a lot of it will be pointless fluff and posturing, but from that seemingly mindless shittery comes intuitions and genuine reads. Don't expect me to make the cases for you. If I see people making real cases day one, then there's almost no way I'm pushing for their lynch. It's hard to make meaningful cases when you're inexperienced, but 10 times harder for an inexperienced mafia. So it's worth the effort.

@Blueroles (cop and medic)
It's especially important you read guides. I'm not going to tell you specifics, though I might think it's a good idea I say something later (it's up to you whether you listen). You have a higher value than the average vanilla town. Do not mention blueroles. It is a common tell due to availability bias. Read the guides as a lot rides on you.

Standard Hado. Nothing that really deviates from his usual rhetoric.

Unvoting pmjpmj is what I'd do if I was rb. Why? Because pmjpmj has now promised to be active through precedent. Bronto has done no such thing, therefore given RB's anti-lurker tendencies, it's consistent for him to switch vote onto Bronto.

Not that I have a town read on RB, but I do see both addressed claims as false.

Yeah, I understand his reasoning. I just thought it worth questioning.

@The people who are floundering
You must have suspicions. Try to act in such a way as to test those suspicions. Do it of your own accord and this will help you look town while also helping your understanding of who's mafia. For instance, I suspect Gopher, I asked him a question which he will soon answer. I have an idea of what his answers might mean. If I fail to adjust my read from what he says, I've still forced someone to say things that they can be held to later. For instance, if Gopher says that the reasoning for Zerk's ideas about lynching are terrible, a scum gopher no longer has the option to support any notion that works on the same principle as Zerk's ideas. You deny them wiggle room, which limits their power, even if you don't know they're scum.

It is the people who refuse to be limited in this way that we lynch, because they're trying to keep their options open for future lies.

Standard

--------------------------------------

All in all I don’t see Hado really deviating from his play last game. Yes, he’s making a pointed effort to take up less of the spotlight than last game, but he’s been saying that was his intention since early on in the last game.

At the moment I have a slight town read on Hado, but I also know he’s experienced enough that he’d be able to act reasonably town-like if he were mafia. He’s far from being a prime target for today’s lynch, as he’s contributing and (apparently) forming cases that we should be seeing soon.

One thing I want to note in regards to Hado, though, is that he’s very slippery. There were multiple times in the last game that he used the same manipulative tactics that he called other people out on but was able to deflect a lot of the attention away from that fact. I don’t think it’s necessary to call him out on every little thing he does, but I think that if anyone has suspicions of him and builds a case, they should be mindful of this and do their best to not give him any wiggle room.

 

[Hadoblado]

I'll just quickly step in to correct.

Gopher has not hunted scum yet. He's generated discussion, but he has not hunted scum. Unless Gopher would like to correct me?

 

[The Gopher]

*conspicuous silence*

Step 1: Come lurk with me
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Town win!!

Why won't anyone lurk with me? You people are no fun.

Who's on then? Let's start.

Completely pointless posts.

I was planning on lurking more, but just realised I'm not available tomorrow night to make up for it. So I need to do more now.

1) Asking people about strategy is stupid. Read a guide.

2) If a single one of you idiots votes for yourself you earn my vote immediately as well. So many people voted for themselves last game, but it is pure emotional manipulation/wifom. If you are town, and you martyr this way, then you're shit town. I encourage others to do the same. You shouldn't ever put yourself in a position where this is your only option left. Just hunt scum, as this action serves as both your offense and your defense. My first priority for lynching is manipulative martyrs.

3) @Urakro
I don't think we have four days. I think we've got 48 hours (I could be wrong).

4) @Cheeseumpuffs
Please change your avatar. It's not to town's benefit to have you confused with Sinny. Also take your vote off me plznowty.

5) @Everyone that played last game, and who specced
You've all played now. I hope you understand that there is good reason for lynching everyday now that you've heard experts say it in the QT who you didn't have reason to suspect were misleading you. I'm trusting that we can unanimously agree that a lynch day one is a useful thing to do.

6) @Everybody
I know you want to do clever things. You can do those clever things, but do so while also hunting scum. If you do not pressure the people around you, this makes you look scummy in my eyes. I would point to kingbossscummafia puffy as the perfect example from last game. He was highly agreeable and rational, but ultimately none of his actions reflected a mindset of someone actually looking for who was mafia.

7) Yeah playing to your win condition is loose. So long as you're not deliberately holding your side back I wouldn't worry about it.

His idea of doing more now is simply stating things that mafia like to use to fill up posts and increase content artificially.

Jenny's done nothing to look like town. I didn't expect her to do so by now so that's fine. Null read.

FOS urakro
You've said a lot of words but all of them have encouraged others to do the thinking for you. I want to see what you think.

Gopher. What do you think of my read on Urakro?

This is his first read, which is fair a read on urakro this is good we're in the scum hunting stage!

That's a bit wishy washy Zerkalo. What level of read allows you to lynch someone? If someone's a 50/50 in your mind you'd lynch them right?

@Gopher
I had some intentions. They would have been fun. I'm not going to explain them because I might use that strategy in some other game, and since it didn't actually happen, it's irrelevant.

Why are you interested in why I wanted to lurk more? How could that possibly lead you to a read? What response would a mafia hado say that a town hado wouldn't, given that both had just admitted and rescinded that intention?

Because dwelling on details of games that failed to happen doesn't seem productive. Reasoning please.

Oh... you're right. Or about as right as I was (24 hours off). We need to lynch within 3 days. Which also means I could have lurked more...

QT, could we please get a countdown in the OP?

That moment when you refer to Sinny as being herself, then realise that it was Cheeseumpuffs all along.

I'll consider this evidence to my previous point Cheeseumpuffs. I know it's in fun etc., but it can, has, and will cause confusion. Town Cheeseumpuffs wouldn't want to cause confusion.

A 50/50 is not a null.

Null is a 3/13. A 50/50 is a 6.5/13. 50% certainty is a pretty strong read.

I too would be interested in what Happy has to say about zerks stance on lynching.

After Happy is done, I want to hear what gopher thinks about it too.

Oh wait I guess not. This is all filler. the only part that's useful is right at the end getting people to solidify their opinions but that only works if he's town. If he's mafia he's just setting up town who change their mind for a fall. Also I let him off far to easy on this. I don't care about your strategy for next game. I really couldn't give a shit. So cough up, what was your strategy? Why is it so important you'll compromise this game for it?

Yes specifically after Happy. I don't want to tread on Helvete's toes.

I've got my read. Specifically on you Gopher. Providing you with answers would entail me pushing a case on you, which I'm not ready to do yet. I need to see you work for a while longer. It's been a long time since we played together, and I think we were both scum at the time. So I've got to re-read you.

I'm reluctant to make this game as much about me as the last one was, and if I'm the first one to push a hard case it very well could be. I'm content to wait and allow the town to get their shit together.

Tell you what I'll make you a deal? I'll make 'the case' regardless, even if I change my mind and think you come out town. But I don't do it until I have more information. This case will include my thought process from this point in the game, so that you know this isn't me just bullshitting so I don't have to provide anything.

Ooooh hey guys I have a case on someone. But I'm not going to tell you what it is yet so I can get away without saying much while looking like I'm saying a lot.

For the record, I'm almost certain the difficulties Artsu spoke of last game were genuine. I don't expect anyone here to lurk to a similar degree.

Fluff.

@QT
Please don't tell us who the 13th is. I could infer things from that information that could be unfair.

Fair game wise, but also going out of the way to limit information is a mafia move.

Thanks on both counts QT! I think I might put that link in my sig so it's ever-present.

Anything.

Nothing in these posts. (but good ideas)

unFOS Urakro

Not because you're acting like town, but because your approach is expected this early in the game. This is the same slack I'm cutting Jenny.

Making the game more complicated is a bad idea. It'd be good if we were all well practiced, but people are learning, and the chances town are going to fuck up badly when you turn up the difficulty? Almost certain.

That said having rules that make it harder for mafia is a really good idea, it's like you approached the right conclusion from a different direction. Stuff like:
- don't lurk
- hunt scum
- don't vote for yourself
- don't create needless confusion
- make a lynch every day

Are all things that town should be able to pressure mafia into agreeing to. In that they can't reasonably refuse without attracting suspicion. Meaning town gets to control the terms and conditions without even knowing who town are.

So yeah, you're kind of on the money, but you're still not thinking in practical terms. You want to mess with the fundamental laws of the game when you haven't learned the simple version. Understandable, but not useful.

I don't have a problem with this post.

K the threads slowing down. I'm gonna head to bed.

@Erryone
This all may seem like a bunch of faffing around, but several meaningful things have already happened. I've got a read on Gopher, and I've got another of similar weight that I'm yet to mention. I'm not making a case on either yet, because I need to see action from the less proactive crowd. Last game went to shit for multiple reasons, but one of them was that multiple people didn't see the value in posting early. Yes a lot of it will be pointless fluff and posturing, but from that seemingly mindless shittery comes intuitions and genuine reads. Don't expect me to make the cases for you. If I see people making real cases day one, then there's almost no way I'm pushing for their lynch. It's hard to make meaningful cases when you're inexperienced, but 10 times harder for an inexperienced mafia. So it's worth the effort.

@Blueroles (cop and medic)
It's especially important you read guides. I'm not going to tell you specifics, though I might think it's a good idea I say something later (it's up to you whether you listen). You have a higher value than the average vanilla town. Do not mention blueroles. It is a common tell due to availability bias. Read the guides as a lot rides on you.

While the cop and dic things are good to say easy to say as mafia as well. Don't really have a problem with this post but "and I've got another of similar weight that I'm yet to mention"

Who dis? This gives you free rain to change your mind later by not saying. Even if you just said the name and said you'd elaborate later that commits you. And you call me nontransparent?

g'morning

Redbaron was not dodgy and inconsistent last game. He was the most consistent town. You may have disagreed with him, and you may or may not have been right, but that doesn't make him dodgy or inconsistent.

Unvoting pmjpmj is what I'd do if I was rb. Why? Because pmjpmj has now promised to be active through precedent. Bronto has done no such thing, therefore given RB's anti-lurker tendencies, it's consistent for him to switch vote onto Bronto.

Not that I have a town read on RB, but I do see both addressed claims as false.

@Cheeseumpuffs
Yeah the numbers thing was me explaining myself, not correcting them. I switch systems without realising routinely. For instance, I said 3/13, which is something I corrected RB for last game. It's 1/4 because you don't count yourself in the number. Then I was ambiguous about my parsing the ambiguity...

Straight back into the game and what is his most important thing? Oh it's fine to unvote the guy who is the second biggest lurker in the game. Also lets get back to that lynching topic that should have died the death years ago.

Gopher I believe Happy's now given his input. Your turn.

@The people who are floundering
You must have suspicions. Try to act in such a way as to test those suspicions. Do it of your own accord and this will help you look town while also helping your understanding of who's mafia. For instance, I suspect Gopher, I asked him a question which he will soon answer. I have an idea of what his answers might mean. If I fail to adjust my read from what he says, I've still forced someone to say things that they can be held to later. For instance, if Gopher says that the reasoning for Zerk's ideas about lynching are terrible, a scum gopher no longer has the option to support any notion that works on the same principle as Zerk's ideas. You deny them wiggle room, which limits their power, even if you don't know they're scum.

It is the people who refuse to be limited in this way that we lynch, because they're trying to keep their options open for future lies.

Hey! Gopher! You know that big post you made that gave your position really solidly? Say it again! Some good advice though.

Helvete I want to see an answer to this.

Gopher who is your #1 suspect?

Good post.

I will give you at least 24 hours before the lynch to respond to it Gopher. There will be no coup. I'm holding off, I have my reasons.

Well what are your reasons? You should be transparent man! You can give reasons without giving away the game I'm sure.

Urakro you shiny golden god

*Points at Urakro*

You see this?

Do this!

Sure he's pressuring the same person I am, but that's better than not pressuring people at all. And he's making his own arguments which make sense.

Urakro is now more town than any of you in my eyes, because he's showing us his process. He suspects someone, he then pressures them. It would have been better if he'd pressured someone not already being pressured, but you can't control your suspicions like that.

Continue

Well this is entirely accurate. Also could be a buddy attempt but the inherent bias in post by post analysis leaves me to leave it null.

24 hours is enough Gopher. That's the entire second half of the day from last game. It doesn't matter that this day phase is longer, 24 hours is enough for you to defend yourself without feeling rushed.

I agree, we shouldn't lynch people based off a case unless they have time to respond.

I'm sorry, but that all came out red to me. Ima need you to do a few things for me:
1) Why is Cheeseum a town read?
2) Why is Urakro a red read?

I know you have a meta to play to, but I can't let you do that. I need you to be useful day one. I need you to be more transparent. Because atm you're not even being your typical hard-to-read self. You're being damn crimson. I wasn't actually planning on pushing for your lynch day one, but your responses have been terrible. Transparency. Now.

Okay from here on out he actually starts posting and scum hunting.

1) Be more explicit about Cheeseumpuffs. What did you expect and how did he meet those expectations? I have zero green read on him so far, how have you attained this read that I've missed? Explain how this is inconsistent with a red Cheeseumpuffs.

2) Why do you think I won't have a case anymore? Are you thinking that you'll have done something to warrant you not looking red by that time?

From the way you've responded you've demonstrated that if you're town, you do not have a good idea of what's going on with me. For instance, there was no reading comprehension issue on my side. I was implying that your reasoning for him no longer being a red read was insufficient, and seeing which way you'd go. The reasons you gave for reading him as red were not put to rest by your stated reasons for no longer seeing him as red. The reasons you have now given are sufficient, though one must wonder why you didn't just state those the first time?

@town gopher
Get your shit together. I may not be running for mayor this game but I'm pretty sure I could get you killed if you don't stop fostering your meta at the expense of this game. Last game I forced the lynch on cheeseumpuffs and ESC, but that was their first game. Given that you've got a better winrate than me, if you're unable to show me you're even vaguely not red by the time the lynch comes, this is on you.

Stop playing coy. You know I know your operation. You're hard to read for people unfamiliar with it, because you don't receive adequate pressure. I am working with an understanding here, applying the pressure to see what's actually under the hood. And so far it's not looking good for you.

Every time you assume I'm an idiot when I know you know I'm not an idiot, you're making yourself look worse in my eyes. So just stop it k? I'm not saying "I'm smart so listen to me", I'm saying "stop wifoming the others by implying I'm stupid or don't understand". It's manipulative. I know how you work, I can't let you work like that if I want to be able to trust you. You need to be more transparent.

Holy BB code batman.

You know me and know I can't accept your intuition. Your read on Cheeseumpuffs is incredibly weak for an experienced player. He cleared up a confusion? lol.

It sounds at best like you've been wifomed, which should in no way have you seeing him as green. At best, you should get a slight red because you've been wifomed, which is not something a town would want to do to people. You should be suspicious but you are not. I think you called him town because you wanted to shit off a read to make it look like you were doing something.

Was that what you were doing? Transparency please.

By this point it should be obvious that your 'intuition' game doesn't allow me to read you, and for so long as you rely entirely on it I will see you as deliberately obfuscating your motives. Even if you are genuinely a town who has only used intuition up until now, I need you to show me reasoning. Real reasoning. If you haven't got any. you need to go and reason, then show me that reasoning.

And that is all his posts up until this point. I would like some answers and transparency you seem to desire so much.

 

[The Gopher]

Holy BB code batman.

You know me and know I can't accept your intuition. Your read on Cheeseumpuffs is incredibly weak for an experienced player. He cleared up a confusion? lol.

It sounds at best like you've been wifomed, which should in no way have you seeing him as green. At best, you should get a slight red because you've been wifomed, which is not something a town would want to do to people. You should be suspicious but you are not. I think you called him town because you wanted to shit off a read to make it look like you were doing something.

Was that what you were doing? Transparency please.

By this point it should be obvious that your 'intuition' game doesn't allow me to read you, and for so long as you rely entirely on it I will see you as deliberately obfuscating your motives. Even if you are genuinely a town who has only used intuition up until now, I need you to show me reasoning. Real reasoning. If you haven't got any. you need to go and reason, then show me that reasoning.

Look completely fair. I have intuition, and I use it to question people. Once enough questions are answered I make my cases. The thing that sucks for you and I is I don't have anything to be transparent about. I'm not playing my usual meta game I'm just saying what I think and I agree I would hunt myself in this situation.

Because before bed my entire focus was getting people to talk from waking up it's been scum hunting and defending myself.

Ok, here's the thing. Scout's honour, if you told me you were nervous, I'd really start reconsidering your stance.

Hado went after me at the start of the game, and I was worried I might have gotten a heart-attack. And I'm innocent.

How can you be calm like a cucumber right now? There's two people accusing you of something your not, whether your town or mafia, you should be at least a little nervous. I think you are nervous, but your even trying to cover that up.

The only information I gave you as to why I thought you were mafia, is that I thought you weren't playing a role.

Thing is, when you are being interrogated, the natural thing to do is to answer to your own crimes. I can't count on my fingers how many times during the interrogation you kept trying to scum-hunt other people.

Of course, that is what I said you weren't doing. See why I don't really tell people the real reason I find them suspicious. You changed, and did exactly what I said you weren't doing before, only you were doing it at a really weird time...... during an interrogation.

Well I've played this game a lot I have no reason to be nervous. I am pretty sure I was replying to the alleged crimes but the only way to actually answer is to scum hunt which is something I started doing since the conversation has truly started.

The reason I wasn't doing it until then is because before I was posting before bed my entire goal was to get people to post more. Now it's scum hunting.

I'll just quickly step in to correct.

Gopher has not hunted scum yet. He's generated discussion, but he has not hunted scum. Unless Gopher would like to correct me?

No I haven't. Well at least not when you posted this. I have however pressured people I thought were scum. By asking them questions in an accusing manner.

 

[Hadoblado]

OMGUS?



Reals?

 

[Urakro]

I didn't get hado's suggestion for people to lurk at the start initially. But now I realize it was just a joke against last game's artsu win. "hey guyz, we all lurk like artsu, and we win".

Gopher, how can you still be calm and groovy right now?

 

[The Gopher]

Yeah with last post urok you shouldn't compare yourself to someone which several games. I'm completely confident in my own ability.

I'll just quickly step in to correct.

Gopher has not hunted scum yet. He's generated discussion, but he has not hunted scum. Unless Gopher would like to correct me?

Well technically I'll rephrase, I've been following suspicions while generating discussion.

was this meant to be intentionally unhelpful or is it just that "saying absolutely nothing but making it look like you're saying something" sense of humor you have.

All in all I don’t see Hado really deviating from his play last game. Yes, he’s making a pointed effort to take up less of the spotlight than last game, but he’s been saying that was his intention since early on in the last game.

At the moment I have a slight town read on Hado, but I also know he’s experienced enough that he’d be able to act reasonably town-like if he were mafia. He’s far from being a prime target for today’s lynch, as he’s contributing and (apparently) forming cases that we should be seeing soon.

One thing I want to note in regards to Hado, though, is that he’s very slippery. There were multiple times in the last game that he used the same manipulative tactics that he called other people out on but was able to deflect a lot of the attention away from that fact. I don’t think it’s necessary to call him out on every little thing he does, but I think that if anyone has suspicions of him and builds a case, they should be mindful of this and do their best to not give him any wiggle room.

Err not intentionally unhelpful no. Although in a new game I probably should have been less meta.

It's interesting reading your post by post analysis with mine. Pbpa is generally very biased based on preconception and since hado is after me maybe you have a clearer head.

 

[Urakro]

EBWOB

Again sorry, didn't see you replied to my post. I think I'm done questioning now.

 

[The Gopher]

OMGUS?



Reals?

Oh just answer the questions. I thought you were mafia before you went hardcore on me you just did it sooner. Even Cheese wants to know and he thinks you're town. I'm not here to convince you you're mafia.

I didn't get hado's suggestion for people to lurk at the start initially. But now I realize it was just a joke against last game's artsu win. "hey guyz, we all lurk like artsu, and we win".

Gopher, how can you still be calm and groovy right now?

Well he did say he had a strategy specifically he wanted to save for another game. Maybe that joking was part of it. Cause isn't this fun! I've never been under this much attack day one it's great.

 

[Hadoblado]

Can you summarise your questions please? Just so it's all clear and I'm not unintentionally missing anything.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Hado probably didn't have a case on gopher and just wanted an excuse to tunnel him.
There's nothing to get a read from in gopher's posts on first page, plus hado already said their metas are rusty


*shrugs* this might be a scum festival for all I know but carry on

 

[Urakro]

Sorry goph. I find you are much less suspicious now, and you are at par with everyone else. Thanks for answering your questions truthfully.

 

[The Gopher]

Can you summarise your questions please? Just so it's all clear and I'm not unintentionally missing anything.

What was your lurking strategy and why could it help town?

Who is the other person you have a case as good as the one you have on me on. (cause not telling us who even if you don't make the case means you can change it at anytime and is not transparent)

Why would you not tell us?

Has your position on PMJ changed since he went to bed saying nothing and with no hunting?

Why are you holding off? The act of holding off is fine in some situations but can you answer this without giving it away. (aka stop being not transparent)


AKA WHY ON EARTH are YOU of all people accusing me of not being transparent when "Don't be transparent" is your presidential motto. (okay that was OMGUS)

 

[redbaron]

Is this going to be RB and Hado vs. the world again? I think it's going to be RB and Hado vs. the world again.

I don't think Hadoblado is mafia for the same reasons as last game. I've had a decent amount of interaction with him, and I don't really have any issues with his thought process or output so far. This happened last game, where I had more meta-information available and I didn't suspect him, even though I can understand why people without that meta-information would suspect him.

He might be royally fucking with me, but I don't think Hado's got that much hubris in him and at this point I have so many Terrible Town reads that I don't know where to start (but I'm going to start anyway).

Firstly, what I don't understand is this from Zerkalo:

Hado probably didn't have a case on gopher and just wanted an excuse to tunnel him.
There's nothing to get a read from in gopher's posts on first page, plus hado already said their metas are rusty

How can you be okay with someone playing, "entirely from intuition"? It just allows people to have random thoughts and suspicions without having to coherently justify anything. Don't you see a problem with that?

 

[redbaron]

I like this overall post much more content. Just to clear something up though if I was mafia hado and I could totally both be mafia. If hado was mafia even then there's like a 50% chance he would mild bus on an early case to establish animosity.

50% chance he'd bus with you? Why? Or is this just another intuition?

 

[The Gopher]

Firstly, what I don't understand is this from Zerkalo:



How can you be okay with someone playing, "entirely from intuition"? It just allows people to have random thoughts and suspicions without having to coherently justify anything. Don't you see a problem with that?

Well you seem to have forgotten I'm an ENTP RB.

Also I don't entirely play from intuition. See the Hado questioning. My intuition was that something was up. I went back and checked, and came up with questions. It's an exaggeration.

That said I also want to know what that defense/attack on hado was all about. You've stated what you believe zerg now why do you believe it?

Also you don't have a problem with hado because.... of your intuition?

 

[Sinny91]

I have random thoughts and suspicions, which I can't coherently justify. This is the nature of intuition. You can have a problem with it, but nature is a force of its own, and it won't won't give two fucks.

 

[The Gopher]

50% chance he'd bus with you? Why? Or is this just another intuition?

Soft bus, all good mafia soft bus people or else it's too easy to spot people working with each other. At this point it's kinda unlikely but at the same time... he knows I could take the heat. You know theoretically. I'm just saying those kind of things might work when talking about an experienced player and an amateur but both of us know each other well enough to pull it off and leaves it around a 50% chance. Nearly 80% chance for a soft bus between two mafia who've played before. That said I'm town so it's not happening.

 

[redbaron]

Also you don't have a problem with hado because.... of your intuition?

Because of a history of interaction and discussion. I legitimately don't think Hado could play mafia and have me not see straight through the act. It's a bold claim, but I'll stand by it.

 

[The Gopher]

I have random thoughts and suspicions, which I can't coherently justify. This is the nature of intuition. You can have a problem with it, but nature is a force of its own, and it won't won't give two fucks.

Yeah the intuition comes first. You then follow it and question their moves until the point you can go back and make a case. I would like you to be more active though. Even just a current read of 1-13 of who you think is most scummy.

 

[redbaron]

Soft bus, all good mafia soft bus people or else it's too easy to spot people working with each other. At this point it's kinda unlikely but at the same time... he knows I could take the heat. You know theoretically. I'm just saying those kind of things might work when talking about an experienced player and an amateur but both of us know each other well enough to pull it off and leaves it around a 50% chance. Nearly 80% chance for a soft bus between two mafia who've played before. That said I'm town so it's not happening.

I'm going back to my original point: I don't think you can both be mafia. If there's bussing going on, it's way too shitty and transparent to be the product of two experienced players.

 

[The Gopher]

Because of a history of interaction and discussion. I legitimately don't think Hado could play mafia and have me not see straight through the act. It's a bold claim, but I'll stand by it.

And that means Cheese, who I know for years, over a variety of different mediums, daily at some points... Oh no I can't use my intuition there for a soft town read.