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Philosophyking87

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Do you guys Bruce Lee was ISTP or not? If you don't, what type do you think he was? What about John Lennon? What about Einstein? Or, perhaps you've been thinking of a famous person's type. Express your opinion here.
 

Philosophyking87

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ESFP, eh? Interesting. Why do you think that?
 

Anthile

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citrusbreath95

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Do you guys Bruce Lee was ISTP or not? If you don't, what type do you think he was? What about John Lennon? What about Einstein? Or, perhaps you've been thinking of a famous person's type. Express your opinion here.
I don't know about Bruce Lee, but John Lennon, I think is ENFP as my friend took the test, and I looked up his results later, Einstein INTP!!! (well, based on about every website with info. on INTPs)
 

Jah

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Wasn't there already two recent threads with this ?

Hmm... John Lennon, I automatically feel drawn to the idealistic ones possibly INFP, based on my experience with INFPs: YouTube- John Lennon circa 1968
 

Adymus

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(well, based on about every website with info. on INTPs)
Okay this right here is the problem with every MBTI follower on the internet, nobody is thinking for themselves, you guys just read information somewhere and assume it is true. Every single MBTI source has just copied other lists of historical MBTI figures, nobody is actually analyzing them. They will just see some person listed as some kind of type and then assume it is true without actually thinking about it. Nobody actually has the balls to actually challenge people, and call them out on their accuracy of typing, which most of the time, is dead wrong.
Hmm... John Lennon, I automatically feel drawn to the idealistic ones possibly INFP, based on my experience with INFPs
Nah, John Lennon is INFJ, so he is an idealist yeah, but he is no INFP, he is definitely a worldview pusher. What is kind of fucked up is Yoko Ono is an INFJ too... really bad shit happens when INxJs date each other.
 

Words

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Okay this right here is the problem with every MBTI follower on the internet, nobody is thinking for themselves, you guys just read information somewhere and assume it is true. Every single MBTI source has just copied other lists of historical MBTI figures, nobody is actually analyzing them. They will just see some person listed as some kind of type and then assume it is true without actually thinking about it. Nobody actually has the balls to actually challenge people, and call them out on their accuracy of typing, which most of the time, is dead wrong.
A possibility but is, in my opinion, a slim one. The internet is not only full of lies but skeptics and critics as a result and also conveniently as a solution. "This is fake!". Also, consider the age of MBTI and the internet population growth. Still, makes me wonder, how do you measure this possibility? Other factors...
 

Philosophyking87

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I don't know about Bruce Lee, but John Lennon, I think is ENFP as my friend took the test, and I looked up his results later, Einstein INTP!!! (well, based on about every website with info. on INTPs)
Hmm... I would think John Lennon was ENTP, but I'm not really sure. I'll have to think about whether or not he could've been an ENFP.
 

Philosophyking87

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Okay this right here is the problem with every MBTI follower on the internet, nobody is thinking for themselves, you guys just read information somewhere and assume it is true. Every single MBTI source has just copied other lists of historical MBTI figures, nobody is actually analyzing them. They will just see some person listed as some kind of type and then assume it is true without actually thinking about it. Nobody actually has the balls to actually challenge people, and call them out on their accuracy of typing, which most of the time, is dead wrong.

Nah, John Lennon is INFJ, so he is an idealist yeah, but he is no INFP, he is definitely a worldview pusher. What is kind of fucked up is Yoko Ono is an INFJ too... really bad shit happens when INxJs date each other.
Why do you think Lennon was INFJ?
 

ckm

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From the clip of John Lennon:
"Everything you do is the same thing, so do it the same way".

The way he's bringing his experiences together holistically - I think this sounds like Ni, but I can't say for sure. His "spiritual" attitude could be coined down to a lot of things, but Ni is a possibility too. So I'd say he's xNxJ (or possibly xSxP - after all, Ni could be a developed lower-tier function, but I doubt that because I couldn't see much/any Se there).
 

BigApplePi

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Wasn't there already two recent threads with this ?

Hmm... John Lennon, I automatically feel drawn to the idealistic ones possibly INFP, based on my experience with INFPs: YouTube- John Lennon circa 1968
My immediate reaction to him was T, not F. Yet some of you think F? Maybe I'm projecting onto him or I don't grasp F's.
 

Philosophyking87

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My immediate reaction to him was T, not F. Yet some of you think F? Maybe I'm projecting onto him or I don't grasp F's.
Yeah, I don't think he's an F either. But I'm open to the possibility.
 

Words

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My immediate reaction to him was T, not F. Yet some of you think F? Maybe I'm projecting onto him or I don't grasp F's.
See 0:01 and 0:28. "I don't know how" . The "My writing" makes me think of that "early enthusiasm to connect", seems a sign of developed Fe perhaps?
 

Adymus

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Why do you think Lennon was INFJ?
Well Generally speaking, when the person in question is conceptual in an intuitive way, but it is based in a revolutionary point of view that they are trying to change the world with... It is probably Ni you are looking at not Ne.
Furthermore, when that revolutionary ideal future world is based on a community of people, and not some new innovative system, it is most likely Fe that they are using to push and deliver the message of that worldview.

But aside from that, let's look at that interview now that it is up. Take notice of how he can effortlessly create structured articulation, he is not just throwing out ideas and thoughts that he has as they come, as an Ne user (especially Ne dominant) would if it was coming from Ne. He is actually articulating his thoughts as if they were already structured to begin with, thus coming from either Ni or Si. An ENTP would have to put in much more effort to structure their thoughts into a concise beginning middle and end like Lennon is easily doing, and you would notice more energy being put into it, as well as a certain discomfort in not being as free form as they naturally want to be.

As for whether or not he is an Introvert or extrovert... He is really not feeding off that conversation in that interview. He is making a slight effort to connect with the person, mainly just because he is articulating from Fe, but he is not actually getting any energy or stimulation out of it. He is mainly concentrating on getting his thoughts out there, which is why he is not even look at the interview much of the time.
 

Philosophyking87

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See 0:01 and 0:28. "I don't know how" . The "My writing" makes me think of that "early enthusiasm to connect", seems a sign of developed Fe perhaps?
Indeed. It's quite obvious, at least to me, that Lennon had an overly developed Fe. The first time I listened to his music, my Fe actually became more attuned and I actually began accepting emotions (at least to some extent). But does that really imply that he was a feeler?
 

Philosophyking87

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Well Generally speaking, when the person in question is conceptual in an intuitive way, but it is based in a revolutionary point of view that they are trying to change the world with... It is probably Ni you are looking at not Ne.
Furthermore, when that revolutionary ideal future world is based on a community of people, and not some new innovative system, it is most likely Fe that they are using to push and deliver the message of that worldview.

But aside from that, let's look at that interview now that it is up. Take notice of how he can effortlessly create structured articulation, he is not just throwing out ideas and thoughts that he has as they come, as an Ne user (especially Ne dominant) would if it was coming from Ne. He is actually articulating his thoughts as if they were already structured to begin with, thus coming from either Ni or Si. An ENTP would have to put in much more effort to structure their thoughts into a concise beginning middle and end like Lennon is easily doing, and you would notice more energy being put into it, as well as a certain discomfort in not being as free form as they naturally want to be.

As for whether or not he is an Introvert or extrovert... He is really not feeding off that conversation in that interview. He is making a slight effort to connect with the person, mainly just because he is articulating from Fe, but he is not actually getting any energy or stimulation out of it. He is mainly concentrating on getting his thoughts out there, which is why he is not even look at the interview much of the time.
I see where you're coming from; I'm just not sure Lennon really fits the INFJ description, at least as far as I'm aware of it. I definitely agree with your take on the difference between Ni and Ne. My Ne is extremely well-developed, so much so that it sometimes seems to overwhelm my Ti, resulting in an expulsion of vast, seemingly unconnected and meaningless ideas which spew forth in a giant inarticulate, vague collection of what seems to others to be unintelligible nonsense (although it's odd how my Ti actually attempts to logically organize this giant mess of intuitive junk). Although, my intuition is usually spot on. I just have trouble articulating my ideas in a manner that allows others to follow my extremely vast intuitive train of thought, or my abstract Ne web of thought.

And definitely, Lennon doesn't seem to have Ne, as he is very articulate and structured in his expression of his ideas, whereas I'm usually unstructured and all over the place.

Although, even I can become somewhat Fe-dominated (at least it seems) when I begin thinking about theoretical possibilities concerning society. Although, I seem to think equally of the state of the people and the design of the system, as they seem to go hand-in-hand.

And as for whether or not he's an introvert or extrovert: I really can't make up my mind on him. At times, he seems aloof and detached and unconcerned, like an independent loner, while at other times he's very charismatic, outgoing, expressive, gregarious, social, witty and funny. What do you make of this discrepancy?
 

Adymus

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I see where you're coming from; I'm just not sure Lennon really fits the INFJ description, at least as far as I'm aware of it. I definitely agree with your take on the difference between Ni and Ne. My Ne is extremely well-developed, so much so that it sometimes seems to overwhelm my Ti, resulting in an expulsion of vast, seemingly unconnected and meaningless ideas which spew forth in a giant inarticulate, vague collection of what seems to others to be unintelligible nonsense (although it's odd how my Ti actually attempts to logically organize this giant mess of intuitive junk). Although, my intuition is usually spot on. I just have trouble articulating my ideas in a manner that allows others to follow my extremely vast intuitive train of thought, or my abstract Ne web of thought.

And definitely, Lennon doesn't seem to have Ne, as he is very articulate and structured in his expression of his ideas, whereas I'm usually unstructured and all over the place.

Although, even I can become somewhat Fe-dominated (at least it seems) when I begin thinking about theoretical possibilities concerning society. Although, I seem to think equally of the state of the people and the design of the system, as they seem to go hand-in-hand.

And as for whether or not he's an introvert or extrovert: I really can't make up my mind on him. At times, he seems aloof and detached and unconcerned, like an independent loner, while at other times he's very charismatic, outgoing, expressive, gregarious, social, witty and funny. What do you make of this discrepancy?
Well, then don't try and ascribe him to the INFJ description, personality types were never meant to match up to a single description in the first place. That is the fallacy of MBTI. All that matters is what cognitive functions he is using, if he is an Ni dominant, and using Fe auxiliary, then how he is using these functions is completely irrelevant.

I'm sure you have theoretical philosophies concerning society as well. That is a result of our Si worldview being connected to our Fe. Which actually makes it a rather similar worldview to the INFJs because their Ni is connected to their Fe. Here is the difference: We are not going to act on it like they are. For an INFJ turning their Ni vision of how society should be into reality is their heroic drive. As INFJ they are driven to actually make the world more like their Ni vision is telling them it should be. ENTPs, as well as us, do not have this visionary drive that the INFJs have. The ENTPs live in the world of infinite possibilities, but Ne possibilities are not directive, in fact they are the opposite of Si, so narrowing things down to a single truth is exactly what Ne is not about.


Ah, okay there is something important I need to point out: there is a difference between being articulate and being an extrovert.
Despite popular belief, being an extrovert has nothing to do with how much you talk. Being an extrovert simply means your dominant function is an extroverted one. However your ability to articulate actually comes from how well developed your Fe or Te is, depending on which of them you use. Naturally an Introvert will lose more energy from articulating just because it is unstimulating for them to engage with the external world, but that does not necessarily mean they are going to be silent, and socially incompetent. In the same way having a dominant extroverted function does not mean you are going to be super talkative either (ENFPs for instance are very often quiet people.) The act of extroversion is simply engaging with the external world, this could be in the form of listening to a person speak, being aware of your senses, being aware of the present patterns, or even drawing a picture.

INFJs in particular are very often confused for extroverts because of this misconception, and because Fe is their secondary function. So when an INFJ has a well developed Fe, then they can become very articulate, and connectible with other people.
 

Philosophyking87

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Well, then don't try and ascribe him to the INFJ description, personality types were never meant to match up to a single description in the first place. That is the fallacy of MBTI. All that matters is what cognitive functions he is using, if he is an Ni dominant, and using Fe auxiliary, then how he is using these functions is completely irrelevant.

I'm sure you have theoretical philosophies concerning society as well. That is a result of our Si worldview being connected to our Fe. Which actually makes it a rather similar worldview to the INFJs because their Ni is connected to their Fe. Here is the difference: We are not going to act on it like they are. For an INFJ turning their Ni vision of how society should be into reality is their heroic drive. As INFJ they are driven to actually make the world more like their Ni vision is telling them it should be. ENTPs, as well as us, do not have this visionary drive that the INFJs have. The ENTPs live in the world of infinite possibilities, but Ne possibilities are not directive, in fact they are the opposite of Si, so narrowing things down to a single truth is exactly what Ne is not about.


Ah, okay there is something important I need to point out: there is a difference between being articulate and being an extrovert.
Despite popular belief, being an extrovert has nothing to do with how much you talk. Being an extrovert simply means your dominant function is an extroverted one. However your ability to articulate actually comes from how well developed your Fe or Te is, depending on which of them you use. Naturally an Introvert will lose more energy from articulating just because it is unstimulating for them to engage with the external world, but that does not necessarily mean they are going to be silent, and socially incompetent. In the same way having a dominant extroverted function does not mean you are going to be super talkative either (ENFPs for instance are very often quiet people.) The act of extroversion is simply engaging with the external world, this could be in the form of listening to a person speak, being aware of your senses, being aware of the present patterns, or even drawing a picture.

INFJs in particular are very often confused for extroverts because of this misconception, and because Fe is their secondary function. So when an INFJ has a well developed Fe, then they can become very articulate, and connectible with other people.
Hmm... this post has got me thinking, but I'm still not quite "sold" on the idea that Lennon was INFJ. I know some INFJs and he doesn't seem like them (hence, how can be really be INFJ if he seems so radically different?) At any rate, I enjoyed the breakdown of the relationship betwen Si and Fe and Ni. And I think the part about extroversion was unnecessary, because I was speaking of articulation and inarticulation with regard to the difference between Ni and Ne, as you were drawing distinctions between the two in an earlier post.

At any rate, good post. I'll be thinking on the matter.
 

Words

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Speaking of INFJ's, I've heard of them being quite varied in several ways. Some are so rationally logical, some are "empaths" and some are very radical. I hear it's because of their more flexible arrangement of cognitive functions?
 

Philosophyking87

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I agree, Words. I know an INFJ who happens to be extremely logical and rational. Yet, other INFJs are giant babies who carry around way too much emotion.

Very odd discrepancies with that type.
 

Adymus

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Hmm... this post has got me thinking, but I'm still not quite "sold" on the idea that Lennon was INFJ. I know some INFJs and he doesn't seem like them (hence, how can be really be INFJ if he seems so radically different?) At any rate, I enjoyed the breakdown of the relationship betwen Si and Fe and Ni. And I think the part about extroversion was unnecessary, because I was speaking of articulation and inarticulation with regard to the difference between Ni and Ne, as you were drawing distinctions between the two in an earlier post.

At any rate, good post. I'll be thinking on the matter.
I actually really don't think he is radically different to be honest, I'd place him smack dab in the middle of how they usually turn out. But I don't know what your experiences are... so.... yeah. Either way that part about articulation was relevant, it still easily applies to this.

I agree, Words. I know an INFJ who happens to be extremely logical and rational. Yet, other INFJs are giant babies who carry around way too much emotion.

Very odd discrepancies with that type.
Dude, I really don't even think you know the half of it. The INFJ can potentially be so radically different depending on their upbrining that they almost seem Opposite. I wouldn't be surprised if there is someone in all of your lives who you passed off as an ESTP, and is actually an INFJ. As a side note, I suspect the myth about them being the rarest type is wrong because of this.
How they act ultimately depends on the form their Ni has taken, and Ni is not a constant, it invents entirely new worldviews depending on who is using it. So you might end up with one INFJ trying to help the world through being a doctor, and you might have another that is trying to save the world through being a serial killer.
 

Mary

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Dude, I really don't even think you know the half of it. The INFJ can potentially be so radically different depending on their upbrining that they almost seem Opposite. I wouldn't be surprised if there is someone in all of your lives who you passed off as an ESTP, and is actually an INFJ. As a side note, I suspect the myth about them being the rarest type is wrong because of this.
How they act ultimately depends on the form their Ni has taken, and Ni is not a constant, it invents entirely new worldviews depending on who is using it. So you might end up with one INFJ trying to help the world through being a doctor, and you might have another that is trying to save the world through being a serial killer.
I'm still not entirely sure whether or not I'm an INTP or an INFJ; I act like both at times. 'Prolly has something to do with my Fe being overdeveloped.
 

Philosophyking87

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I'm still not entirely sure whether or not I'm an INTP or an INFJ; I act like both at times. 'Prolly has something to do with my Fe being overdeveloped.
Probably. The INFJ I was talking about, who is very logical and rational, is very critical towards any of the ideas I come up with. What's the first thing you felt compelled to do the first time I ever saw a post from you? Criticize one of my ideas (along with another member).

So... perhaps you should attempt to really distinguish your type.
INFJs can be very critical towards ideas which they may perceive as impractical.
INTPs tend to be a bit more open to impractical ideas, as far as I've known.
 

Mary

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So... perhaps you should attempt to really distinguish your type.
INFJs can be very critical towards ideas which they may perceive as impractical.
INTPs tend to be a bit more open to impractical ideas, as far as I've known.
Your ideas were not impractical.
Your ideas were illogical.
I am critical illogical ideas.
Therefore, I was critical of your ideas.

Perhaps the INFJ was critical of your ideas because they were illogical. Did you ever consider that?
 

Adymus

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Your ideas were not impractical.
Your ideas were illogical.
I am critical illogical ideas.
Therefore, I was critical of your ideas.

Perhaps the INFJ was critical of your ideas because they were illogical. Did you ever consider that?
Maybe.

But when INFJs criticize ideas it is usually a.) because they see the world differently. or b.) because your idea will not "win" for one reason or another, not necessarily poor logic.

A lot of times, what they do from there is help you in how you can win with that idea, where you are going to have to go with it, and how you can get there. This is why a lot of them are actually paid consultants, who just listen to people's ideas and tell them how they can succeed with it.

Ni is so awesome it makes me sad just thinking about it.
 

Philosophyking87

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Indeed, Adymus. Many INFJs are indeed paid consultants who can help people do things more appropriately, in a more practical fashion. I pitched a few ideas at that INFJ friend of mine and she basically started suggesting ways to make them more practical.

At any rate, my ideas weren't illogical. They were just more potentially impractical.
Logically, they made sense. They just would possibly lead to new problems. Hence, impractical.
 

ckm

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I know, Se/Ni is infinitely cooler than Si/Ne.

However I do find a lot of Ni-users incredibly...something. I don't think there's a word for it. It's just the way their "world views" come across to me, self-righteous or something. I'm probably just jealous.
 

Mary

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Maybe.

But when INFJs criticize ideas it is usually a.) because they see the world differently. or b.) because your idea will not "win" for one reason or another, not necessarily poor logic.

A lot of times, what they do from there is help you in how you can win with that idea, where you are going to have to go with it, and how you can get there. This is why a lot of them are actually paid consultants, who just listen to people's ideas and tell them how they can succeed with it.

Ni is so awesome it makes me sad just thinking about it.
Hehehehe..
Ni is awesome. Which is prolly why I'm split between being an INTP and an INTJ..
I like coaching people through difficult times in their life. More often though, my close friends just want me to psychoanalyze them. Apparently I'm good at reading people's intents.
My INTJ friend is creeped out by my way of knowing things about her. :)
 

Adymus

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Hehehehe..
Ni is awesome. Which is prolly why I'm split between being an INTP and an INTJ..
I like coaching people through difficult times in their life. More often though, my close friends just want me to psychoanalyze them. Apparently I'm good at reading people's intents.
My INTJ friend is creeped out by my way of knowing things about her. :)
Yeah, you're not though. Nobody is a split between two personalities, you get one like the rest of us do.

I'll keep an eye on you and have you figured out in a bit.
 

Mary

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Yeah, you're not though. Nobody is a split between two personalities, you get one like the rest of us do.

I'll keep an eye on you and have you figured out in a bit.
Ooo, goodie! :D I love being analyzed
(I meant split as in unsure whether I'm INTP or INFJ, unless I really do have DID/MPD)
 

Adymus

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Ooo, goodie! :D I love being analyzed
(I meant split as in unsure whether I'm INTP or INFJ, unless I really do have DID/MPD)
*Marks one tally in favor of INTP*

As a guy who has unmasked INFJs on this forum who thought they were INTPs many times over. I can tell you for certain, that they usually don't like being analyzed.

With the exceptions of the ones that asked me to do it.
 

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Play devils advocate much Addy?

You say Im not an INTP, but you challange worldview more than anyone on here.

Why cant anyone just have a discussion without a know it all dissecting every statement made?
 

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Why can't anyone just have a discussion without a know-it-all dissecting every statement made?
Because this.... is ... INTPFORUM!!! :hoplite_sword_yell:


Yes, I did correct your post, btw...
 

Adymus

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Play devils advocate much Addy?

You say Im not an INTP, but you challange worldview more than anyone on here.

Why cant anyone just have a discussion without a know it all dissecting every statement made?
What good is having a discussion in the first place if clarifications are not allowed to be made?
 

Philosophyking87

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*Marks one tally in favor of INTP*

As a guy who has unmasked INFJs on this forum who thought they were INTPs many times over. I can tell you for certain, that they usually don't like being analyzed.

With the exceptions of the ones that asked me to do it.
Interesting, because I usually enjoy being analyzed myself.
Anything that helps me better understand myself is a plus.
 

Ghyuk

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Do you guys Bruce Lee was ISTP or not? If you don't, what type do you think he was? What about John Lennon? What about Einstein? Or, perhaps you've been thinking of a famous person's type. Express your opinion here.
If you think Bruce Lee was an ISTP, then I would say I think he is more an INT. Despite his focus on the body, you have to look at his background. He was a dedicated Taoist, with extremely strong interest in philosophy. I am not sure how to word this correctly, but he is the type to want the body as strong as the mind. The man was very creative he design (perhaps not the correct term) his sparring gear and training equipment. Such as the paper and chain.
 
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