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FacetiousPersona Banning

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loveofreason

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#1
I must apologise to the whole forum that the banning of FacetiousPersona wasn't better handled.

I was actually surprised that it came as a surprise to anyone that a ban was enforced, such is the degree of my customary myopia when attempting to deal with too many pressures at once. Then, it has been my job as admin to keep track of all Face's activity, and myself and the moderators have had to clean up the mess... I just took it for granted that others weren't similarly aware of the build up to this ban. I admit that I just assumed all the information was available/obvious/clear to everyone. My mistake, and I apologise.

So just to give a run down, these are the features/highlights of Face's track record:

over fifty mostly trashy, annoying, trollish or inflammatory posts in the first 24 hrs of posting (and the overall rate has been 40 posts per day with little change in quality)

insulting other members

twice derailing threads across the forum on intentionally disruptive spamming sprees, leading astray other members in the act. (Please see the facen'feckn files in the inner sanctum.)

linking to to very questionable graphics in the irc channel that could fairly, and legally, be considered child pornography ( I only found out about this one myself yesterday... and while it was not on the forum I think it constitutes a pretty clear indictment of their character/intentions to manipulate/shock people)


...and quite how to encapsulate that general air of screwing over the whole forum for their own amusement...? hmmm... as I have said, it seems clear to me that they are a troll.

I understand it is a concern to others that Face may merely be misunderstood... which may be the case. But I seriously doubt it. From where I stand I see a very calculated forum wrecker at work.

In taking so much of our attention and time as it is, Face has been rewarded for their efforts, and the atmosphere of the forum has suffered.

If any wish to argue that Face actually has something constructive to offer, please do so. I'm just one opinion, operating from the greatest amount of information available to me. I just apologise again that not everyone had the same information at their disposal, or an opportunity to consider it and be heard.

I encourage everyone to use this thread to make their comments about the banning, all points of view welcome.

Just a reminder, it is temporary, but in all probability will be made permanent. Speak up now if you have anything to say!

And we're learning from this! The forum hasn't had to deal with anything quite like this before, hopefully we can develop a better way of handling it in the future.
 

naberus

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#3
I knew Face was annoying, but I never realised Face was that annoying.
Reguardless, I support your decision given the circumstances and the evidence.
 
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#4
I think Face has made serious contributions in posts and threads, but he's also gone over the line here and there.
Fun is fun, but there are limits, I think.
 

Cegorach

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#5
If you give me a chance I may be able to convince Face to behave him/herself, if I can pinpoint the reason for an individuals behavior I am apt at helping reach a compromise. It may also be desirable to have a portion of this forum (maybe in Face&Feck'n Files) dedicated to conversation without the constraints of any particular topic. May I also suggest (and I say this with the utmost respect) that moderators attempt to quell disruptive behavior by suggesting/leading people towards the desired result instead of using thier authority(It comes across as confrontational)
Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!!! Your saddening me and I may even give you a hug!
(Now where is the smiley with giant puppy dog eyes?)
 
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#6
....
May I also suggest (and I say this with the utmost respect) that moderators attempt to quell disruptive behavior by suggesting/leading people towards the desired result instead of using thier authority(It comes across as confrontational)
Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!!! Your saddening me and I may even give you a hug!
(Now where is the smiley with giant puppy dog eyes?)
Do you mean that Face didn't get any warnings about his behavior at all?
 

Cegorach

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#7
Nah, I'm just trying to point out that immediately confronting an INTP(and many other types) may be ultimately ineffective.
 
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#8
Nah, I just trying to point out that immediately confronting an INTP(and many other types) may be ultimately ineffective.
I suppose we all have our own manuals, and maybe we should read our own manual just a bit better.
 

loveofreason

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#10
Face received an official warning for insulting members, various informal warnings and discussions with Ogion privately and on the irc, including being told to keep the spamming to the facn'feckn files after the first mass derailing.

I personally told Face that their initial posting frenzy on joining the forum almost earned them an immediate ban... (I admit, my bullshit warning trouble detector went haywire with the very first post of their's that I read, in hindsight I should have trusted it instead of being curious.)

Unfortunately the pix incident wasn't dealt with appropriately because no one was aware at the time it should have been treated more seriously (ie. with a banning from the channel.)

We don't even know that Face is INTP or not, and we should be reading the troll behaviour manual in this instance anyway...

I will point out that having to ban anyone has been an absolute rarity here. Face lacked the two qualities I think required for open communication. Sincerity and respect.

Not ignoring you AllKnowingCow... a reply is coming.
 

Dissident

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#11
What did FP say to the warnings, in the discussion with Ogion, etc.?
 

loveofreason

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#12
In my very few dealings it seemed that they failed to take things seriously (ie. had no respect/failed to acknowledge). I can't speak for Ogion.

I admit that I am not one to press matters, I merely take on board my perceptions of the others' response, so in that respect I could be said to have failed as a law enforcer.

I expect people to be self-regulating and self-responsible. To abuse a shared space like this as much as Face has, says to me that the person has no respect for the place we congregate nor for the other members here, and if they don't automatically have that, then no amount of lecturing them will make them change.
 

Anthile

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#13
FacetiousPersona's breach of rules is too severe as that we could consider a compromise. Banning for established members is already a last resort.
Also, his ban is not permanent and if he is willing to reconceive his behavior he will be able to use the forum again.
If being direct and is confrontational, then confrontation will be inevitable from time to time.
Furthermore we can't prohibit you to communicate with FacetiousPersona. So if you want to talk to him/her feel free to use email/IRC/IM/etc..

Besides that, we don't see your point with the extra area for off topic. Actually there are three sub-forums (Lounge, Arena, Siberia) without real topic restriction. Again, this is a forum and not a chat room. There are reasons that we have an IRC channel.


When we restructure the boards we will create a space for dealing with confrontation.
 

Cegorach

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#14
Forgive me if I presume too much, but the moderators seem to have already concluded this decision amongst themselves... If this thread is merely for show I would appreciate being informed.
(Please excuse me for being so blunt, but the moderators comments thus far have lead me to this speculation.)
 
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#15
Forgive me if I presume too much, but the moderators seem to have already concluded this decision amongst themselves... If this thread is merely for show I would appreciate being informed.
(Please excuse me for being so blunt, but the moderators comments thus far have lead me to this speculation.)
Isn't it the purpose of moderators and administrators to conclude decisions apart from the whole group?
I consider this thread to be informative.
It's too bad FP has made a negative appearance out of himself. I think he made substantial posts here and there and he could be a valuable member of the society if not for his excessive (apparently uncontrolled?) behavior.
It's not a bad thing to be eccentric or very eccentric. We all are to some degree. But that doesn't make a good excuse for posting graphical imagery of child pornography, derailing threads, insulting (new) members, etc.

I suppose it depends on how well one knows oneself.
 

Cegorach

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#16
Very objective viewpoint! I admire that, it pains me that I have to be so subjective in this debate.

I respect that the moderators get the ultimate decision, but I would request to be informed if I am wasting my time.
 

loveofreason

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#17
Yes, if we are guilty of doing our jobs then so be it.

Yes, we are agreed that a troll should be treated as a troll.

Yes, we are agreed that Face is a troll.

We also believe that it is fair to talk about that, and you are entitled to your opinion, and a space to express it. This thread was created in response to a request from members for more information.

And it is also possible that some angle/fact will come to light that changes our conclusions. Not likely, but possible.

We have provided information and given our reasoning. The decision was not taken at all lightly. If you could address the reasoning and prove that Face is not a troll, that would be heard.

If not, then you are wasting your time.

In looking after this place for the benefit of all, we have to make decisions not everyone will agree with.

Be glad it isn't your responsibility.
 

cheese

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#18
How did Face spam? I'm not sure what constitutes spamming. Is it excessive posts off-topic?

*edit
And what's a troll? Does it intentionally set out to wreck threads? I thought Noddy and Melkor/Morgoth (?) did the same thing?

I didn't see this ban coming at all either, but I haven't been here long.
 

Cegorach

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#19
Eek! That was harsh, but I suppose I was exceedingly blunt. I had no intentions of offending you, I just needed to be certain.

(I was tempted to make a pun on trolls living under bridges... but I have a feeling it would be unappreciated.)
 

loveofreason

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#20
Face has wasted hours, if not days, of my life already. So yes, I'm over it.

But feel free to chew on the bones. :)

Cheese... give me a few minutes...


edit: nah, playful humour is appreciated. Malicious intent is not.
 

Cegorach

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#21
AHA!!! A smile, that more like it! Is it wrong that I'm enjoying this debate? Maybe I should seek a psychiatrist.
 

loveofreason

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#22
Ok cheese, re spamming see this from the OP

"over fifty mostly trashy, annoying, trollish or inflammatory posts in the first 24 hrs of posting (and the overall rate has been 40 posts per day with little change in quality)"

specifically when such posts are for leading a topic astray, they can be called spam, though originally it was applied only to advertising.

Check out this for trolling:

http://www.flayme.com/troll/


edit: AllKnowingCow ;)
 
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Dissident

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#23
I think that if FP was clearly told that such behaviour was not appreciated in several occasions and contiued, was then given a warning and continued... there is little hope that he will ever stop. If FP is intentionally trolling then he could behave the first days and slowly raise the trolling until we end up here again next month. I don't see why wouldn't he have stopped if it wasn't intentional.
 

cheese

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#24
I feel really sad that Face has been banned. I think she needed attention, but I suppose it's not the purpose of the forum to provide that in excessive amounts. How did she display malicious intent? How do you tell between the two? (I am curious, and also wish to avoid the trap in future.)
 

Cegorach

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#25
Authority issues.

(this was directed at dissident.)
(Somebody should answer cheese though. I feel like I'm talking/posting over top of them)
 

cheese

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#26
Thanks very much lor, that cleared it up.

This was very accurate!

Trolls rarely answer a direct question

I think Face wanted attention and maybe was lonely. It really is a pity this had to happen because she definitely contributed intelligently to topics.

*edit
Thanks AKC.
 

didyouknow

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#27
Personally I'm for it, as long as the proper amount of warning and behavior monitoring was used. We should not be afraid to hurt a few people's feelings to maintain the integrity of the forum.
 

Dissident

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#28
Even though FP claimed to be a little ESFP girl, it's obvious to all that he/she was a very smart, pretty grown up person. Even if it was authority issues, I dont see why the mods have to work several times as hard than usual splitting threads, editing posts, etc, because of it, or other users see their normal discussions and conversations disrupted.
The forum's level of tolerance is very reasonable, it has room to be silly, chat, etc without bothering others. If you choose not to do it there but exactly where it does bother others even after being warned not to, then.. well, you're a troll.
 

cheese

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#29
AKC:
Yeah I realised that after. Everyone's responding really fast so it's difficult to keep track. I think authority issues is coincidentally part of the answer to my question anyway.

Dissident:
I think Face was pretty young actually, judging by some of the sillier posts and the authority issues. She/whatever talked like a teenager (sometimes).
 

Dissident

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#30
I think Face was pretty young actually, judging by some of the sillier posts and the authority issues. She/whatever talked like a teenager (sometimes).
Exactly, sometimes. That's what you'd expect from someone who is acting.
 

Cegorach

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#31
I could fix a troll, I have medicine! I'm also very charming, and have an enormous ego!
Actually I feel like a spartan, if only I could multiply, nobody would dare oppose my will!
>.> <.<
 

cheese

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#32
Dissident:
Couldn't it work the other way though? The maturity being a front, and the real age occasionally slipping through.

I thought that the way she interacted with others seemed young sometimes, and not at all intentionally - a sort of ill-disguised adolescent self-absorption and rebellion.

Whatever it was, it was strange and a skilled question-dodger.

*edit
AKC are you INTP? You seem very Fe; also in the Face&Feck'n Files you showed a lot of exuberant enthusiasm at getting under Face's skin. Just curious.
 

Dissident

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#33
Yes, it could be. There is no way to actually know. What we do know tho, is his/her behavior in the forum, which was a mod-pissing-off recepy :D
 

cheese

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#34
Yeah. It's a pity we couldn't just ban NaughtyFace and keep CleverIncisiveFace. Some of its posts really impressed me.
 

Cegorach

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#35
If you look at a few of my earlier posts you'll see I have a deep and insightful INTP side. I'm just really complex... or at least that's what I tell myself! :rolleyes:

I'm confident I could raise the quality of Faces posts, if I failed somebody could spank me!
 

cheese

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#36
I have seen your earlier posts and was impressed by them. It's this overdeveloped Fe that has me wondering. You remind me of myself. Perhaps you're a highly analytical INFJ/P?

It's all those exclamation marks!!!!!!
 

Cegorach

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#37
WHAT!!!! CAN INTP NOT BE HAPPY!!!!! Heh, I don't know what to say. I've put alot of effort into studying what makes people tick, and have improved my overall persona to fit my circumstances.
(I'm thinking about changing my name to FacetiousPersona and changing my profile picture into iQuit, just to have some fun... Too annoying?) :eek::D;)
 

cheese

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#38
I know! I feel a little outnumbered here sometimes, knowing that some of the INTPs expect us always to be morose/emotionless. I'm very happy as well :D:D

Have you taken this test yet? It lists your cognitive processes in order of preferences
http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/as...velop_old.html

My Te, Fe, Ti and Fe all came out top and equal! (All Judging functions and yet my Pness is huge!) I'm wondering if you'll have a similar result?

(DON'T DO THAT. Although it's a brilliant idea :evil:) (Are you secretly Face? :eek: Is that why you're rooting for her/him/it?)
 

Cegorach

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#39
YES! I am secretly Face that is why I am rooting for him/her! I also enjoy having long conversations with myself and refusing to answer my own questions. :D :phear:

(Your link doesn't work, but I wouldn't doubt that I'd have a huge Pness as well!)
 

cheese

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#40
Haha, I knew it! I could tell by the way you were Fe-ing all over yourself - typical renegade INTP.
(I still don't understand why they think it was some mastermind troll. Maybe I should read all its posts. I'm really sad about the banning, it's embarrassing.)

Damn the internet; try this:
http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/develop_old.html
 

cheese

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#41
Ok seems I can post now. I couldn't earlier, don't know what was wrong. I PMed you instead!
 

Cegorach

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#42
I have PMed you back. It seems we're getting off topic, I don't wanna be banned! OH GOD!!! Praise the Mods for they are Gods!!! D:

Back to topic.

Personally I thought me and Face were at least somewhat amusing, in a stupid way... I will force the moderators to accept that we were at the very least entertaining! Especially lor, I have taken a liking to lor, and you wouldn't like me when I like you!
(Hulk reference in case you don't get it)
 

Jesin

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#43
No, that was just the automatic spam filter. Cheese's post had a link in it and was shaped like some spam we've had earlier, so the spam filter blocked it. I'm letting it through now...
 

cheese

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#44
Haha Cow. ENTP makes sense, it makes sense!!!!!!! You're so out there :p

I think Face was a little too acidic for comfort, maybe. Lor's cool.

Dammit now I PMed you back; this is the last time I'm posting here and ruining the thread.


Thanks Jesin.
 

fullerene

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#45
Thanks for the info, lor. I much appreciate it.

The way I see it, AKC, is that even if you're convinced you could change his behavior, the warnings he'd already ignored should give everyone every reason to doubt it. It's really the fact that I had no idea he was warned before that made me ask for this thread--with that piece of information, I completely understand why the mods wouldn't want to let him back for a little while.

Face was extremely intelligent. I know this because we talked a good deal in private on IRC. The problem is that if they let him back with some warnings, he would be well-behaved and make every post thoughtful--for a while--and then revert back to the same purposeful derailings and such. Like it was already pointed out, noddy and melkor do quite similar things, and it's tough (/impossible) to be certain and prove malicious intent. Banning really is a last resort here (he's only the second person ever, and the other one said some nasty sexual things about one of our female members--and that probably wouldn't have done it if he hadn't been obnoxious for a whlie beforehand, and had apologized to her), and I've little doubt in my mind that FP would be calm for long enough to say "hey, I do contribute, and am just having fun!" in order to disrupt the whole forum for as long as he was allowed... which (I would think), would be quite a lot longer than he already has been.

It's also not really fair to ask the mods to clean up all that spam if they don't want to. He did generate a lot of spam, and I'd be a little pissed off if I were any of them, too.
 

cheese

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#46
How do you know its gender?

I find it really difficult to understand why anyone would join a forum with the sole purpose of derailing threads. It almost seems like the product of a non-thinking robot, not a human.
 

Weliddryn

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#47
15:16 AccidentGirl (FacetiousPersona) "I have an idea. Can I be restricted to only posting in my own section?"


A request from FacetiousPersona.

This was made public for a reason. Feel free to post your thoughts concerning the matter.
 
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cheese

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#48
That sounds fine, considering the section already exists.
 

Inappropriate Behavior

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#49
Personally, I get the feeling things will be better around here. I found face amusing but disingenuous. She was very clever, but not as clever as she thought (or he, whatever. It doesn't matter). She had an agenda and we'll never know what it was and it's probably not worth knowing if anything can be said to be not worth knowing, that's hard for INTPs to see.
 

Dissident

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#50
Makes sense, since the condition is so clear and easy to know if broken and it wouldn't disrupt other threads, so no extra work for the mods. Sounds good to me.
 
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