Expanding the MBTI?

[Sapphire Harp]

So, I think we all know that the MBTI isn't an all-encompassing test and it still leaves a lot of individual variety at the end of the day. I was wondering if anyone has read anything or come up with any theories about a 5th variable?
​

 

[Weirdo87]

If there's going to be a fifth variable, I think it should define one's political leanings. Surely people's political beliefs--at least to some extent--spill over into their personality. As a crude representation, we could use C for conservative, L for liberal, A for authoritarian, and B (can't be L) for libertarian.

 

[Perseus]

Political beliefs are like an overlay program on top of the PersonalityType Operating System. Like the tribe or gang (or school) that you belong to.

 

[Kianara]

yeah, political beliefs aren't really apart of someone's personality type I think... They're more like a personal preference.

 

[LucasM]

We could ask it this way: What differentiates an INTP from another INTP with different leanings?
We have different belief systems, taken from our environments growing up, so that's not one.
Yet... if I was born 'me', the same, yet I grew up elsewhere, would I still have similar belief systems? For as I grow up, I have learned to look past what I was taught and either I make those beliefs my own, or I reject them in favour of a different set of beliefs, depending on 'me'. So thus, after a while, I would have the same belief system whether I grew up in environment A or environment B. Is this possibly something? Or is this just BS?
I am afraid I can't prove or disprove this.

 

[Ermine]

From what I understand, the MBTI identifies a personality default, not the result of one's environment. I think introversion/extroversion are overly broad categories. For example, I am very introverted, socially, but my mind processes are often focused on outward things. Maybe there should be a fifth factor for sociability?

 

[Sapphire Harp]

Yet... if I was born 'me', the same, yet I grew up elsewhere, would I still have similar belief systems? For as I grow up, I have learned to look past what I was taught and either I make those beliefs my own, or I reject them in favour of a different set of beliefs, depending on 'me'. So thus, after a while, I would have the same belief system whether I grew up in environment A or environment B.

I think Ermine has it; the MBTI theory doesn't touch the process of how we eventually became the type we are. It simply tries to categorize what exists at the end of the process.

I think introversion/extroversion are overly broad categories. For example, I am very introverted, socially, but my mind processes are often focused on outward things. Maybe there should be a fifth factor for sociability?

I thought Introverted / Extroverted referred to where we derive meaning in our life? If it's extroverted, we tend to search for it in other people. If introverted, we search for that meaning in ourselves? I wouldn't argue that there seems to be a great range of functional social ability within the INTP category, so you might be on to something there...

More ideas, please?
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[Inappropriate Behavior]

Eccentric vs. Conventional?

 

[DrSLudge]

sexuality?

orrrr

my intp friend has motivation to do things because of "why not"
and I don't do them because "why"

 

[wadlez]

I thought Introverted / Extroverted referred to where we derive meaning in our life? If it's extroverted, we tend to search for it in other people. If introverted, we search for that meaning in ourselves?

Introverted/ Extroverted refers to if you are interested/focus on subjective meaning from within or objective meaning from without. An introvert likes to keep themselves withdrawn and protected from the object while extroverts like to go out and explore and experience all objects. As a result of this, introverts are unsocial and extroverts are outgoing. I/E is not just about over people.
Carl jung, explains how it all works in his book the psychological types

If anyone wants this ebook you can pm me

 

[Ermine]

That is why I think there should be a fifth function for sociability. I'm 100% introverted but that certainly doesn't mean I'm too shy to talk to anyone.

 

[sagewolf]

I thought the crux of introversion/extraversion is how you gain and lose mental energy. An introvert recharges their 'batteries' by being on their own and spending time in contemplative thought or whatever any individual does with their 'me' time, but is drained when they interact with others. An extravert gets energy from being around other people and interacting/listening to/observing them, but feel cut off from the rest of the world when they're alone. There are very outgoing introverts and shy/timid extraverts out there. (I believe I know some of the former IRL: one is social, outgoing and fun, but she also 'crashes' a lot in relation to her moods and apparent desire to talk to people.)

A tendency toward spirituality, maybe-- the desire/tendency to believe in a higher/divine being as opposed to being specifically pious in the context of any one religion.

EDIT: Actually, that idea is crap, on further reflection. I have no idea.

 

[Dissident]

That is why I think there should be a fifth function for sociability. I'm 100% introverted but that certainly doesn't mean I'm too shy to talk to anyone.

Remember Ermine that the % that the test gives you as a result is not the strenght of the preference but the certainty of the result. In that case it means that (withing the limits of the test) it is 100% sure that you are an introvert. Everybody has an extraverted function either as primary or auxiliar, so yes, you can extravert yourself.

 

[FF]

I don't think it should be expanded. Abstract is better.

 

[Da Blob]

I think it should be expanded. I mean there are obviously more than 16 categories to place people in based on their personality.

I never, quite followed the logic of Myers and Brings when they added the Judging /Perceiving scale. I think they were close, but...

However, I think that to be true to the Model. The fifth measure needs to come form the Work of Jung, himself.

I think the Anima/Animus concept has to influence our personality to a degree, for an example. there is also the collective unconsciousness and the archetype (Tarot) classes

I think, that the relative use of time, symbols, Self etc under the general heading of BASIC IDENTITY below one's personality might be made into a scale

perhaps the simpliest scale would be this
A 5th scale
based upon one's attitude towards Change
CHANGE = THREAT OR CHANGE = OPPORTUNITY?

 

[echoplex]

So, I think we all know that the MBTI isn't an all-encompassing test and it still leaves a lot of individual variety at the end of the day. I was wondering if anyone has read anything or come up with any theories about a 5th variable?
​

Interesting.

Rather than having a fifth variable, I think maybe just allowing a specification of the degree of function preference would probably work better.

For example, I'm INTP, but I'm nearly a J, so you could say that I'm a soft P. Whereas someone who scores 90% P would be a strong P.

I'm sure this kind of thinking is nothing new though.

To express this more accurately, based on percentages, you might say that I'm a:

IIIIIIIEEENNNNNNNNSSTTTTTTTFFFPPPPPPJJJJ

Which basically means I'm 70% I, 80% N, 70% T, 60% P.

However, writing all those letters is a pain. lol

 

[echoplex]

CHANGE = THREAT OR CHANGE = OPPORTUNITY?

hmmm, that might work, although I'm kinda thinking that "threat" would apply to Js and "opportunity" would apply to Ps. This seems tied into the J/P scale a bit.

More specifically though, it's supposedly SJs who fear change the most.

 

[Da Blob]

Interesting.

Rather than having a fifth variable, I think maybe just allowing a specification of the degree of function preference would probably work better.

For example, I'm INTP, but I'm nearly a J, so you could say that I'm a soft P. Whereas someone who scores 90% P would be a strong P.

I'm sure this kind of thinking is nothing new though.

To express this more accurately, based on percentages, you might say that I'm a:

IIIIIIIEEENNNNNNNNSSTTTTTTTFFFPPPPPPJJJJ

Which basically means I'm 70% I, 80% N, 70% T, 60% P.

However, writing all those letters is a pain. lol

I think there is a spin off of the MBTI, perhaps (?) similar to what you suggest
It ranks the scores so that I would be an NIPT you might be an NITP..,
I don't know they talk about dominant trait and such like things. Maybe some else knows more about it
. I couldn't follow the logic, myself...

 

[sagewolf]

The idea of adding the J/P preference was to clarify which of the four preferences were extraverted and which were introverted, and thus in conjunction with the I/E preference, which were dominant, secondary, tertiary and inferior. (I think) Which, since everyone develops their functions at a different pace, isn't completely foolproof, I agree.

 

[Dissident]

I think there is a spin off of the MBTI, perhaps (?) similar to what you suggest
It ranks the scores so that I would be an NIPT you might be an NITP..,
I don't know they talk about dominant trait and such like things. Maybe some else knows more about it
. I couldn't follow the logic, myself...

Im sure most people know this but just in case:

MBTI coding basics:

*The four letter code tells you which is the primary and auxiliar functions from the 8 that exist in the system since the other 6 can be deduced from them.

*There are two kind of functions (perceiving and judging) with two functions each category and each of them can be either extroverted or introverted (Ne, Ni, Se, Si, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi)

*If the primary is a perception function the auxiliar is a judging one,
if the primary is extroverted, the secondary is introverted, etc.

-First letter of the code: Tells you which is the direction of the primary function

-Second letter: Tells you which is the perceiving fuction.

-Third letter: Tells you which is the Judging function.

-Fourth letter: Tells you wether the extraverted fuction is a Perceiving or a Judging one (it is not a function)

So: for example INTP= You know from the first letter that the primary fuction is Introverted and for the last letter you know that the extraverted fuction is the Perceiving one (therefore Ne). If the perceiving one is extroverted then the judging one has to be introverted and the introverted one is the primary, so we conclude that the fuctions are Ti - Ne

If for example you say your Intuition is tronger that your thinking (Ne - Ti) that would make you an ENTP. Saying that your P is stronger or weaker than anything makes no sense since it is not a fuction.

I hope that helps.