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Ever tried to explain to an Extrovert?

Lfnunley

Cynical Programmer
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
17
Location
VA
#1
So this year I had this "friend" who was as extreme of an extrovert as I am an introvert (100%). One day I decided to tell her about the MBTI. Now, she never understood why I would not enjoy being around people in general, so I should have expected this: She decided that the state of being an 'introvert' was a mental disorder, because it's insane to think anybody would not rather be around people than be alone. I go to a liberal arts and technology school, so many of the theater and dance oriented people I talked to about this had the same view. Have any of you come across this same result with extroverts? How can we get rid of the apathy?
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
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th
#2
I'd consider social anxiety disorder, suicide, anorexia, ASPD, and "serial killing" as insane. Insane in comparison to other animals. I've seen genocide among chimpanzees but they are cannibals so it can be excused for survival reasons.


Think about it, you are primate who does not like to communicate with other members of the same species.

SAD is an animal scared of it's own species.

You can't use numbers like 100% when you are describing something so subjective as to how much you use your sensing/intuition preferences.

You either communicate like what you do with people in your college or you are mentally insane. It's just noteworthy at best if you are an introvert, 'he doesn't talk much'. That is all. You can always use the argument "I am more of a listener". Although most of the time you are daydreaming.
 

Lfnunley

Cynical Programmer
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
17
Location
VA
#3
I'll use 99% then. Well, it's usually not a noteworthy thing, but when somebody says the premise of loosing energy around a large amount of people as opposed to gaining it is impossible and should be treated as a medical condition, I take offence. She is a product of the Promethean project. She thinks there is a set personality that all humans should be, and anybody who acts differently needs to change. This is a somewhat-typical extrovert view.

And I'm a junior in high school by the way, but I'm flattered my vernacular made you assume I was in college.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
1,640
#4
So this year I had this "friend" who was as extreme of an extrovert as I am an introvert (100%). One day I decided to tell her about the MBTI. Now, she never understood why I would not enjoy being around people in general, so I should have expected this: She decided that the state of being an 'introvert' was a mental disorder, because it's insane to think anybody would not rather be around people than be alone. I go to a liberal arts and technology school, so many of the theater and dance oriented people I talked to about this had the same view. Have any of you come across this same result with extroverts?
Never. Extroverts sometimes make fun of my quirks. But usually, once I get them alone, and explain myself, they seem to understand that I just have a different way of doing things than them.

It's usually Introverted Judgers who tell me that I am crazy for not being different.

How can we get rid of the apathy?
It helps to cure a problem, if you can diagnose accurately.
 

Moseley

*uncivilized
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
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OP. 48
#5
Well, do introverts understand why extroverts like being with other people?
Sort of the same deal.

Like how a heterosexual man wouldn't understand a homosexual's sexual attraction to men.
Though maybe the introverts are the homosexuals in that scenario, at least for now. . .


They just have an innate desire to share their lives with others, it's out of their control. Their just sort of flocking together really, with their weird social shenanigans. I think it's very animalistic.
 

Hadoblado

The choicest fuckboi
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
4,933
#6
I do not understand how other people cannot understand individual differences. It makes my brain hurt when I think of how this simple concept makes other people's brains hurt.
 

pjoa09

dopaminergic
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
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#7
@Lfnunley My point was that you can't throw a percentage.

In that sense your friends are, in my opinion, stupid. There are activities you do alone and there are activities that you do with people. You just prefer to do activities that you do alone. That is perfectly understandable.

If you lock yourself up for 5 years with no verbal communication or contact with another human being that is a disorder.
 

Lfnunley

Cynical Programmer
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Jul 5, 2012
Messages
17
Location
VA
#8
@Moseley In my experience, most introverts understand. We understand that they enjoy being around people and they gain energy from it, and that is completely normal for them. @pjoa01, I could probably last 5 years haha.
 

Moseley

*uncivilized
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#9
But that's sort of just understanding the word "extroverted" rather than the process or why they think that way? Or is it as simple as that, I guess maybe it is.
 

Dapper Dan

Did zat sting?
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
465
Location
Indiana
#10
I've honestly never run into this issue. You'd have to be seriously clueless to not see how many introverts are out there.

As a side note, when seeking thoughtful discussion, it's probably best to avoid the theater department. :P
 

PhoenixRising

nyctophiliac
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
726
#11
Extroverts always think I'm crazy. The nice thing is, they usually stay away from me because they don't understand me and are therefore afraid of me. I've found that extroverts are usually individuals that are more likely to stereotype themselves in order to fit into their precious society. This is usually exceedingly annoying, and so it's nice when they aren't around. Quiet people usually like me just fine. Don't take it personally if an extrovert insults you. They're just afraid and trying to make themselves feel better about being dumber than you are.
 

Lfnunley

Cynical Programmer
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Messages
17
Location
VA
#12
@Dapper Dan, in a room of 100 people, if 50 of them are introverts, you'd never know it. Many introverts are more moderate, and can be drawn into conversation without loosing too much energy, and people notice extroverts much more than introverts. Also, I remember reading there are 3 extroverts to every introvert.
 

SpaceYeti

Prolific Member
Joined
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Messages
5,600
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Crap
#13
But that's sort of just understanding the word "extroverted" rather than the process or why they think that way? Or is it as simple as that, I guess maybe it is.
Two things;

1) Extroverts don't understand that it's an actual thing that people like to be by themselves (not as a rule, but I've sure had that discussion every once in a while), whereas I've never met an introvert who didn't understand that some people like to be around others, and in fact prefer it to being alone.

2) I don't think this topic has ever been about a deeper understanding of the motivations and hopes of others, simply an understanding that they like different stuff from what you like and there's nothing wrong with them for it.
 

Dapper Dan

Did zat sting?
Joined
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Messages
465
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Indiana
#14
@Dapper Dan, in a room of 100 people, if 50 of them are introverts, you'd never know it.
I disagree. Introverts stick out like sore thumbs at parties, even if they are having a blast.
Also, I remember reading there are 3 extroverts to every introvert.
I'm pretty skeptical of these kinds of stats. But even if they are accurate, that's still plenty of introverts to go around. 3:1 means that just about everyone has lived with an introvert at some point.
 

snafupants

Prolific Member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
5,026
#15
I see little value in drugs like alcohol, socializing with strangers, and generally acting like a pompous dirtbag. In spite of this, over Sunday and Monday I met a nymphomaniac potential girlfriend, took some psilocybin mushroom, wasted time (but not money) in a casino, possibly wrangled an alluring job, played eighteen holes in one hundred degree weather with a high school chum, and went to a few bars. These are activities, especially taken collectively, which I do not recommend. Over the long-term, reading, writing, meditation, reflection, more limited interaction, and self-discipline tend to suit me. Essentially I chalk up the two-day experiment to inferior extraverted sensing. Does that get me off the hook? :slashnew:

I also managed to acquire a potential two thousand dollar bond and warrant for my arrest stemming from excessive speeding. :o

My insurance card was also expired by five days, and the cop was hellbent on personally bringing in the entire county's revenue at the first of the month.

Recluse > Extravert. :cat:
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
731
#16
So this year I had this "friend" who was as extreme of an extrovert as I am an introvert (100%). One day I decided to tell her about the MBTI. Now, she never understood why I would not enjoy being around people in general, so I should have expected this: She decided that the state of being an 'introvert' was a mental disorder, because it's insane to think anybody would not rather be around people than be alone. I go to a liberal arts and technology school, so many of the theater and dance oriented people I talked to about this had the same view. Have any of you come across this same result with extroverts? How can we get rid of the apathy?
they will never understand lol

:elephant:

what you employ is empathy-- when you can understand that an extravert enjoys the presence of other people

what the extravert employs is ignorance, when he/she fails to appreciate the value of alone time.

And we all know that ignorance is one of the top-3 qualities of extraverts.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
731
#17
I'd consider social anxiety disorder, suicide, anorexia, ASPD, and "serial killing" as insane. Insane in comparison to other animals. I've seen genocide among chimpanzees but they are cannibals so it can be excused for survival reasons.


Think about it, you are primate who does not like to communicate with other members of the same species.

SAD is an animal scared of it's own species.

You can't use numbers like 100% when you are describing something so subjective as to how much you use your sensing/intuition preferences.

You either communicate like what you do with people in your college or you are mentally insane. It's just noteworthy at best if you are an introvert, 'he doesn't talk much'. That is all. You can always use the argument "I am more of a listener". Although most of the time you are daydreaming.
I agree with your sentiments here-- but I do want to bring up the rare case of the misanthrope: he/she who truly just has a disdain for humanity. The cynical grandpa who hates the world.

^Would we jump to the conclusion that he is in fact "insane." Or can we respect that his life experience has caused him to become this way after years of disappointment?

Maybe someone like Buddha or Ghandi would be your misanthrope counter-example; but I'm not sure if one or the other should be categorized as insane due to this love or hate of humanity.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
1,640
#18
Two things;

1) Extroverts don't understand that it's an actual thing that people like to be by themselves (not as a rule, but I've sure had that discussion every once in a while), whereas I've never met an introvert who didn't understand that some people like to be around others, and in fact prefer it to being alone.

2) I don't think this topic has ever been about a deeper understanding of the motivations and hopes of others, simply an understanding that they like different stuff from what you like and there's nothing wrong with them for it.
I've talked to all sorts of people. A few things stands out.

One of them is that almost all people believe that when a relationship is over, one needs time to recharge, before going into a new relationship.

Some people seem to bound from relationship to relationship, without ever being by themselves. These people cannot stand to be by themselves. If their S/O is out, they HAVE to be with people, even if it means they are hanging around with people who just want to screw them, even if that means screwing up their relationship. Such people are considered highly dysfunctional.

This fact, that almost all people consider that if you can't be alone, or just even avoid being alone when it is reasonable to do so, makes one highly dysfunctional, means that almost everyone accepts that it is perfectly fine to be by oneself some of the time.

It is also accepted by almost all people, that one of the worst things one can ever do to a criminal in prison, is to put them into solitary confinement, because everyone, including almost all introverts, needs company sometime.

This idea of "extroverts don't understand me", usually amounts to something like this:

Extrovert: We're all going to your best friend's birthday party.
Introvert: Fine.
Extrovert. It's your best friend's birthday party. Aren't you coming?
Introvert: Why?
Extrovert. Because it's your best friend's birthday party.
Introvert: So?
Extrovert: Don't you want to have friends?
Introvert: Why?

At the party:
Best friend: Where's introvert?
Extrovert: He said he wasn't coming.
Best friend: I can't believe that selfish git. After all the times I helped him out, he couldn't be asked to turn up. I never expected him to stay. I just wanted to see him for 5 minutes on my birthday. Is that so much to ask?
15 Introverts: No. It's what is called being reasonable. He's just a dick.

After the party:
Extrovert: Hey. It was a great party. Everyone thinks you're a dick.
Introvert: What on Earth did I do wrong? Just because I don't want to hang with the crowd all night, talking about nothing?
Extrovert thinking: (No point explaining. If he can't see why he's a dick, he never will).
 

Anna Moss

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
158
Location
Alaska
#19
I think we should discuss the point of view that needing to be around people all the time comes with disadvantages.
Some ENFJs, for example, can't stand to be alone. When these people experience solitude, they start berating themselves and envisioning overblown rejection scenes. Not all ENFJs, mind you, but this is marker of the type.
Why don't we complain for awhile about how unhealthy extraverts are?
 

RedN

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
348
Location
los angeles
#20
well wanting some or more alone time vs having social anxiety when around people i think(to the point of avoiding it) are different things.

just thinking also, if a person who just cant be alone is dysfunctional then a person who just wants to be alone is not really different. just both ends of the stick.

i dont really have anything against introverted people, but one issue that often comes up is... they get left behind, an extro would love to go out and then s/he invites teh intro and the intro refuses, almost all the time. so it doesnt always work out. same as, an extro would share feelings and life with an intro and the intro would hide his or hers? doesnt feel fair doesnt it?

some reasons given by intros I dealt with on why, it gives the 'feel' of being arrogant that theyre 'above' those and when you try to incorporate them they go on offense mode. they like go into this shell and put spikes on it like... a hedgehog...

then they complain and say we dont understand them and their issues, that we dont try, or we ignore them or we dont let them be a part of things or...

those are from the ones i met ok.

but theres also a lot of intro's, self proclaimed ones, that are really outgoing too. they socialize and do what extros do on the outside.

one thing about an intro lover, i had, he wants so much alone time but when you go with others, he gets really jealous and hateful. he like goes all crazy that someone is stealing the girl but he cant go out and be with her coz of the anxiety. its... an interesting.... weird thing... i hahahahahahaha. add2: i remember actually saying it to his face, 'if you are going bonkers about that then get dressed now and come with me' and... you know the response eh?

whatever

ADD:
and on the birthday party example:
yeah, i would say the same. that guy is a dick. if i would go out of my way to help this bastard and do things i dont want to do to help him out and he cant be there for that for 5 minutes... and what he has nothing to do but sit his ass at home, screw him! maybe next time ill say the same thing when he needs help, 'why should i help you? maybe i should also just be there when its convenient for me'
 

doncarlzone

Useless knowledge
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
415
Location
Scandinavia
#21
Interesting, I actually often hear extroverts saying stuff like: "Oh, I don't party all the time" "I need time for myself too" "Like, last Saturday I didn't go out at all"

As if they are a bit ashamed of being too dependent on other people. Again it depends on the individual of course.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
7,845
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California, USA
#22
Seven things introverts should know about their extroverted friends:
1) Extroverts don’t understand introversion unless someone explains it.

2) Extroverts who try to get you to loosen up usually aren’t doing it to annoy you. They mean well.

3) Extroverts produce a lot of words but quantity does not preclude quality. There's often plenty of good stuff in there for those with the patience to listen.

4) Extroverts can teach us plenty about glad-handing and small talking. These are useful skills, whether or not you enjoy them.

5) Extroverts can’t read your mind and they’re not big on catching hints. Say what you want.

6) At parties, think of extroverted friends as a glider tow plane. They pull you in and get you started, but eventually you have to sail on your own.

7) Extroverts come in all different styles, just like introverts. Keep a lookout for extroverts with a quiet side, who make dandy friends.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ts-should-know-about-introverts-and-vice-vers

I do not understand how other people cannot understand individual differences. It makes my brain hurt when I think of how this simple concept makes other people's brains hurt.
Yeah it's pretty simple, but I don't think what Extraverts don't get is exactly that. I think they do understand differences, but it's like to them the Self exists outside one's private thoughts, that the Self exists in the external world of other people, things, observation, and action.

So it's hard for them to fathom someone who doesn't need other people, things, or action to exist. And for them this is the default view of how the world is because extraversion facilitates contact with others and when they come into contact with others this is how they are.
 
Joined
May 14, 2011
Messages
84
#23
I am highly introverted, but I haven't really come into contact with this situation. Most of my Extroverted friends accept that I don't particularly like to be around other people. What more seems to be the case is the opposite. I can't really understand why the Extroverts seem to lack any sort of drive to be alone, and just have time to themselves. Where I seem to thrive on alone time where I get to follow my hobbies and what I want to do, they seem to avoid that, and I just never seem to understand it.
 

skip

Sock connoisseur
Joined
Jun 16, 2012
Messages
302
Location
Southern California.
#24
Extroverts don't get it, they assume everyone is like them and when they come across someone who isn't, they assume there's something wrong with that person. Since extroverts are in the majority they don't have much motivation to change.

I think your MBTI type should be a standard piece of identifying information, the kind that goes on your driver's license.
 

EyeSeeCold

lust for life
Joined
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Messages
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Location
California, USA
#25
Extroverts don't get it, they assume everyone is like them and when they come across someone who isn't, they assume there's something wrong with that person. Since extroverts are in the majority they don't have much motivation to change.

I think your MBTI type should be a standard piece of identifying information, the kind that goes on your driver's license.
They're definitely the majority of the public, not sure about total population though. There's really nothing to suggest that but unfounded / biased assumptions.
 
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
80
#26
Maybe instead of explaining it in terms of "energy" and so on and so forth, which sounds vague and pseudo-mystical, try simply stating what that really MEANS; being around people tires you out. You don't necessarily DISLIKE being around people, but it's like exercise. You can enjoy a jog every now and again, but that doesn't mean you're up for a marathon.

Edit:
Also, RedN, you seem to not really understand the situation from the introvert's point of view. I agree that that one boyfriend was a jerk, but that's one example. As for the other stuff you said, the introvert never ASKED you to put yourself out there. They perceive it as something you just DO, not something being done for their benefit, and so they don't see the need to reciprocate.

I agree with skip on the whole MBTI registration thing (asidefromthepartwhereMBTIisanincompleteandnotnecessarilyaccuratemodeldespiteitbeingthemostnuancedandthereforemostusefulmodelofpsychologicalprofilingI'veverencountered, aswellasthepartwhereitCOULDleadtomasstypediscrimination)
 
Joined
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Messages
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#27
"Yeah, hi, we were all just wondering what's wrong, because you don't really say much and keep to yourself, and some of us are even wondering if your retarded or something, because, really, its not really hard to just talk, because you just say whatever your thinking about and what you like and stuff and not be so, well, I dunno, closed up or shy or whatever your jive is, I mean, you don't have a problem with me or nothing I hope, but you just get me feeling all down about myself, and basically we really don't know how to be around you."

"I mean, it's not really that hard. You just open your jaw..... like this... and 'talk'. Blah blah. You can do it can't you? Like Ugh. What is wrong with you? What is on your mind?"

Introvert: "Nothing honestly, I was just..."

Extrovert: "Omg! is that the new song that hit the top 10 pop list of this month? It just makes me wanna dance and (starts clicking fingers and dancing) get wasted and WOOOOO-EEE! Hey guys, omg it's that song! (starts singing like a cat in heat, and runs and pummels someone)."

The extrovert adventures will continue next time, in our next episode....
 

dark+matters

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
463
#28
As a side note, when seeking thoughtful discussion, it's probably best to avoid the theater department. :P
I second that.

"Yeah, hi, we were all just wondering what's wrong, because you don't really say much and keep to yourself, and some of us are even wondering if your retarded or something, because, really, its not really hard to just talk, because you just say whatever your thinking about and what you like and stuff and not be so, well, I dunno, closed up or shy or whatever your jive is, I mean, you don't have a problem with me or nothing I hope, but you just get me feeling all down about myself, and basically we really don't know how to be around you."

"I mean, it's not really that hard. You just open your jaw..... like this... and 'talk'. Blah blah. You can do it can't you? Like Ugh. What is wrong with you? What is on your mind?"

Introvert: "Nothing honestly, I was just..."

Extrovert: "Omg! is that the new song that hit the top 10 pop list of this month? It just makes me wanna dance and (starts clicking fingers and dancing) get wasted and WOOOOO-EEE! Hey guys, omg it's that song! (starts singing like a cat in heat, and runs and pummels someone)."

The extrovert adventures will continue next time, in our next episode....

LMAO!
 

Blarraun

straightedgy
Joined
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Messages
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someplace windswept
#29
I tried but not for the several years now, it sometimes ended in "forget it", "whatever", laughing at their idiocy or being silent. I find novel attempts at extreme ignorance and overconfidence most amusing.

There are many extroverts that are aware of the general tendency to socialise and about differences between individuals. However, these people are not the ones that require explanations on that matter in the first place.

I would also think that people completely unable to socialise when they need/choose to are somewhat impaired anyway.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,692
#30
So this year I had this "friend" who was as extreme of an extrovert as I am an introvert (100%). One day I decided to tell her about the MBTI. Now, she never understood why I would not enjoy being around people in general, so I should have expected this: She decided that the state of being an 'introvert' was a mental disorder, because it's insane to think anybody would not rather be around people than be alone. I go to a liberal arts and technology school, so many of the theater and dance oriented people I talked to about this had the same view. Have any of you come across this same result with extroverts? How can we get rid of the apathy?
It's not apathy, it's that she never developed her auxiliary. Lenore Thompson discusses this, E (particularly ES) types, because we live in such a ES world may never actually develop their functional stack, especially the necessary and important auxiliary. Hard to imagine for us, because introverts must develop their auxiliary to interact with the world at all in a coherent manner.

So she's just undeveloped, she never learned the value of her introverted auxiliary, which is important for extraverts as they need to learn to temper their extraverted energy via it.
 
Joined
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Objects in the mirror might look closer than they
#31
You all are forgetting about extroverted antisocial people like me, who thinks everyone sucks and stay silent but whenever i want i can be really friendly and talkative and breakdown in the middle of the fucking party while sucking a black woman between her legs.
I first taste the ground, then i attack.
 

ENTP lurker

Usually useless
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
228
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Pluto, solar system
#32
Well, functionally Fi is the social function as it abstracts personal relations where as Fe is emotionality and enthusiasm.

Fi people while not boisterous at least in NFs they are subtly relational all the time. It is just hard to see that when Fe is in backround. If you observe any Fe user you will see that they detach from time to time into Ti mode. Same can be said about Fi users as they want be productive aka Te steamrolling.

ESFJs totally get my introverted times. I believe that the attitude won't be bad for INTPs. ESFJs occasionally crash and burn and get back up. ESFPs, well for them it is a crime if you don't try to be active, in Te mode or plotting ahead.
 
Joined
May 16, 2015
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6,314
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Birmingham, UK
#33
Well, I've not long escaped a week at my two ES friends house.
Honestly it's like they never want me to leave, and when I do, they ask me back immediately.
Fiinally did leave 3 days ago, but yesterday I received a text saying one was going to work (new job), and could I come and keep the other company.

I said yes, but typically, later turned my phone signal off and stayed in bed; where I have been ever since, bar just taking a bath.

I cannot understand their constant need for human interaction, without respite.

Also, I wonder, about the depths of the ES people.
It seems to me like all their secrets, or lack of, are worn on their sleeves.
 
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