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Enneagram theory?

snafupants

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#1
I made this post in another thread but perhaps it deserves its own nook in INTP forum land. :^^:

What do y'all think about the underlying ideas behind the Enneagram? Horseshit or gospel? This could be in an historical sense or a more cross-contextual theoretical sense - i.e., related to the ego fracturing theory of the Enneagram.

Feel free to blurt out any omissions or shortcomings of the affixed post.

Many more people are sixes than are willing to concede. Here are some helpful sites...

http://pstypes.blogspot.com/search/label/Enneagram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2.php
http://personalityjunkie.com/category/enneagram/
http://chriswrightcounseling.com/cw/...ples-Intro.pdf

The last one is surprisingly edifying, although the presentation is bizarre. I really couldn't relate how I happened upon the couple's enneagram page.

It's funny to note but I feel partners do fling each other into rages or sooth one another based on the ego demands, delimited by type, of the Enneagram.

For example, blowing off a three or screaming insults to an eight isn't going to end well. The inverse is also true...by giving the seven stimulation or the six security, they'll purr like kittens. It's deeper than that, though, because the seven and six need something more than ego gratification.

The six basically needs to calm down, in an existential sense, and stop relying on external ideologies or groups to assuage their anxiety; the seven needs to stop jumping around and live more in the moment. It's a greener grass (sometimes literally haha) deal with the sevens.

The gist of the Enneagram is that everyone encounters some split in their psyche at a young age when their ideal is corrupted (perfection for the one, as an example). Unconscious compensatory measures ensue (e.g., ones are batshit crazy about the countertop remaining clean).

It's all very dramatic and you can take it or leave it. The system aspires to track the why - underlying motivations and substratum drives - rather than the how - behavioral manifestations...although the tests blur this line. The goal's to make the unconscious conscious and basically tell you why your life is so fucked.

People hurl mud at the Enneagram because it's "unscientific" but its aims are really higher than the Big 5 and MBTI. I believe there's a payoff for taking the leap of faith.

Crap, sorry about any errors. The fucking Daily Show is playing in the other room.
 

snafupants

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#2
The last link appears broken. Maybe just google the hyperlink info if interested. ;)

I'm pretty sure I've already violated numerous copyrights on this site but whatever.
 

TheScornedReflex

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#3
I didn't read all your post but my enneagram tri types are:
8w7
5w6
3w2
The seem like they are close. But word choice is always wrong.
 

snafupants

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#4
I didn't read all your post but my enneahram tri types are:
8w7
5w6
3w2
The seem like they are close. But word choice is always wrong.
I'm less sold on the tritype business but check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype


Does the eight ring true? People say that House is an 8w7 ENTP...seems right. I know that claim seems controversial but House is no fucking INTJ.

There's an eccentric philosopher named Slavoj Zizek who's also an 8w7 ENTP. Funny guy.
 

TheScornedReflex

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#5
I'm less sold on the tritype business but check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritype


Does the eight ring true? People say that House is an 8w7 ENTP...seems right. I know that claim seems controversial but House is no fucking INTJ.

There's an eccentric philosopher named Slavoj Zizek who's also an 8w7 ENTP. Funny guy.
House was definitely not a INTJ! I must say I love the series except the last season. For me they just changed it to much. Maybe I should watch its entirety. But I just can't.
 

redbaron

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#6
5w4

Top 3 are 5, 7, 8
 

snafupants

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#7
5w4

Top 3 are 5, 7, 8
Those could indeed be the top three but do you know about the heart (2-4), head (5-7), and body (8,9,1) centers? You get one from each for the tritype which, again, I can't totally vouch for...each center supposedly has an emotion attached to it. These are shame (heart), fear (head) and anger (body). I doubted the extent of the shame until a two I know literally bowed her head in shame as she related how she'd put on five or ten pounds on vacation. It's weird when you plainly spot these things. Anyone can also see that eight outranks, say, seven in quick, demonstrable rage. Come on, how could six not be about doubt and fear?
 

redbaron

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#8
Those could indeed be the top three but do you know about the heart (2-4), head (5-7), and body (8,9,1) centers? You get one from each for the tritype which, again, I can't totally vouch for...each center supposedly has an emotion attached to it. These are shame (heart), fear (head) and anger (body). I doubted the extent of the shame until a two I know literally bowed her head in shame as she related how she'd put on five or ten pounds on vacation. It's weird when you plainly spot these things. Anyone can also see that eight outranks, say, seven in quick, demonstrable rage. Come on, how could six not be about doubt and fear?
I don't really stay in one stable area on the enneagram tests, so my results become pretty convoluted when I use tri-types. But I'll answer for the sake of your curiosity.

Going by this test:

http://pstypes.blogspot.com.au/2009/11/pstypes-enneagram-test.html

I got 539 - the thinker. That was a month ago.

After redoing I got this:

Type One: 10
Type Two: 0
Type Three: 18
Type Four: 18
Type Five: 57
Type Six: 19
Type Seven: 40
Type Eight: 24
Type Nine: 41

Which makes it 5w6 - Though I think it's worth noting that the difference between me being a 5w6 and 5w4 is only 1 mark.

Tri-types

539 - The Thinker

or

549 - The Contemplative

For the tri-type 3 and 4 scores are the same. Knowing myself, the lack of specificity in results is probably quite accurate in being indicative of my personality.

~~~~ PART 2 ~~~~

Going by the original test in your link: http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2.php

I would be 548 - The Scholar
 

snafupants

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#9
Which makes it 5w6 - Though I think it's worth noting that the difference between me being a 5w6 and 5w4 is only 1 mark.
@redbaron

I did notice that slight difference. Look at the vices, fears, desires, and ego fixations of four and six to break the tie. It's an insane exercise in futility to repeatedly return to these tests. At any rate, it's possible to have balanced wings in which neither neighbor dominates. Edit: I see high scores on three and nine, which might suggest low possibility of four, especially since one and two were low (four's dis/integration points). It's not quite that simple in Enneagram - people don't jump to another type entirely when integrated - but it might be an intimidation worth considering. Nine proved the second highest type overall, which is six's integration point. Haha, how "integrated" are you right now?
 

redbaron

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#10
@redbaron

I did notice that slight difference. Look at the vices, fears, desires, and ego fixations of four and six to break the tie. It's an insane exercise in futility to repeatedly return to these tests. At any rate, it's possible to have balanced wings in which neither neighbor dominates. Edit: I see high scores on three and nine, which might suggest low possibility of four, especially since one and two were low (four's dis/integration points). It's not quite that simple in Enneagram - people don't jump to another type entirely when integrated - but it might be an intimidation worth considering. Nine proved the second highest type overall, which is six's integration point. Haha, how "integrated" are you right now?
I've only done the two tests. One of them I did twice since the last time I did it was a month ago and it was mostly to help satisfy your curiosity :p

From doing further research into the types, wings and the tri-type personalities, I'm still having some trouble reconciling only one of the tri-types to my personality without doubt. I'm definitely strong in 5, 7, 8 and 9, having more of an informed idea of how they work I can see their reflection in my personality.

I have speculated on the tri-types and worked to reach a conclusion on which I really am. I am as of yet, unable to discern with total certainty between the three I got on the tests.

593
594
584

They are all quite accurate to some extent in their descriptions. But I am relatively certain (85%) that I'm a 594. This is based on how I read the individual types of 4 and 6, but also the subtypes of sexual vs social. 593 is self-preserving/social, while 594 is self-preserving/sexual. From what I can gather, I am sexual, not social.

I decided to read about other tri-types as well, to see if I received the same type of response from them, so that I could potentially put my confusion down to the ambiguous wording of the descriptions. I was surprised that I didn't find this however, and that it really was only these 3 types that I could relate to.

There is also the possibility that I am a 584, with a counterphobic 5w6 wing.

I find this is a little more 'fluffy' (for lack of a better term) than typing through MBTI, because there's no functions to look for. It's all very, very subjective (more so even than MBTI can be).

If I had to give an answer, I would say 594. Still with a slight possibility of 593 or 584, though they are not very convincing based on my initial 2 hours of further reading on enneagram.
 

snafupants

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#11
I find this is a little more 'fluffy' (for lack of a better term) than typing through MBTI, because there's no functions to look for. It's all very, very subjective (more so even than MBTI can be).
It does come off as more subjective. Enneagram deals with unconscious motivations whereas MBTI is more about information processing, energy allocation and actual behavior. I get how "subjective" could be the NT kiss of death but many things aren't currently understood about the mind, you know? The Enneagram can still be a useful tool. Even with something like the eight circuits of consciousness, you can see that the stages roughly correspond with psychological and anthropological maturation without endorsing the akashic records or new age hokum.
 

redbaron

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It does come off as more subjective. Enneagram deals with unconscious motivations whereas MBTI is more about information processing, energy allocation and actual behavior. I get how "subjective" could be the NT kiss of death but many things aren't currently understood about the mind, you know? The Enneagram can still be a useful tool. Even with something like the eight circuits of consciousness, you can see that the stages roughly correspond with psychological and anthropological maturation without endorsing the akashic records or new age hokum.
Oh I wasn't insulting enneagram, I think it's quite good. I was more commenting on my own inability (at present) to break enneagram theory down to the same level of understanding that I have of MBTI.

It actually achieves more than MBTI in certain areas and helps explain the drastic differences between people of the same MBTI type. By considering unconscious motivations, fears and desires, it helps paint a deeper picture of how individuals respond to certain situations or stimuli. Something that MBTI has trouble touching on without oversimplifying.
 

snafupants

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Oh I wasn't insulting enneagram, I think it's quite good. I was more commenting on my own inability (at present) to break enneagram theory down to the same level of understanding that I have of MBTI.

It actually achieves more than MBTI in certain areas and helps explain the drastic differences between people of the same MBTI type. By considering unconscious motivations, fears and desires, it helps paint a deeper picture of how individuals respond to certain situations or stimuli. Something that MBTI has trouble touching on without oversimplifying.
That makes sense. It's silly to pretend like one typology has all the answers. I see MBTI and Enneagram as complementary because they synergistically combine and each bring something unique; even separately, both have their place. See, something like MBTI is so close to Socionics or Pod'Lair that I can't see much benefit to studying both (or all three)...although I have looked into Socionics and Pod'Lair (and Jung) for entertainment purposes. I'm really not trying to make this another Pod'Lair thread. Let's pretend I didn't mention Po...that other system. ;)
 
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