• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.

Empathy

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#1
What is it ?


Really, what is it.. I just found out I had a completely distorted vision of empathy. Then, I realized nobody really knew what it was lol.
So what u think of it ? You have some ?
 
Local time
Today, 11:13
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
#2
Can we call it a feeling? Empathy must be when you can identify another person's feelings well enough so that you feel them yourself. You can check this out by seeing if the details match up. It could be any feeling: pain, love, jealousy.

Maybe an easy way to check this out is by going to the movies. If you feel the character you have empathy. If you feel the character isn't real, you don't. But irl you want to make this conscious.
 
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
Location
Far away from All This
#3
@BigApplePi, I think I understand, but I am a bit unclear on some things:

1. if you're feeling empathy, do you feel like you are someone else, or do you feel like you are two people (yourself and the person you are feeling empathy towards) at once?
2. Do you just feel their emotions, or do you feel their emotions mixed with your emotions? I would assume that you could only feel one person's emotions at a time, so therefore I would conclude that you cannot feel any of your own emotions (aside from empathy) when you are experiencing empathy.

Why bother, in that case? Why not just stick to your own emotions?

@WALKYRIA, I wonder if it is a evolutionary predecessor of ESP. I do not think I have very much of it, and I don't think I want any.

SW
 

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#4
@ Big Appel Pi: well I also thought it was some sort of feeling; but some class mates argued that it was not about feeling but understanding(thus in a cognitive way !) the emotions of the other.
I was surprized by what they said, but again they might be aspergers people !


@WALKYRIA, I wonder if it is a evolutionary predecessor of ESP. I do not think I have very much of it, and I don't think I want any.
Why don't you want it ? I think INTP people have potential to have it , but in a selective way. Too much is not good, not enough is not good either(german people at the time of Hitler for example !).I know I might appear as a feely INTP, but without decent empathy is life no good enough.
 
Local time
Today, 11:13
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
#5
@Wolf18. @BigApplePi, I think I understand, but I am a bit unclear on some things:
I don't believe the @ sign works unless you copy the handle.

1. if you're feeling empathy, do you feel like you are someone else, or do you feel like you are two people (yourself and the person you are feeling empathy towards) at once?
2. Do you just feel their emotions, or do you feel their emotions mixed with your emotions? I would assume that you could only feel one person's emotions at a time, so therefore I would conclude that you cannot feel any of your own emotions (aside from empathy) when you are experiencing empathy.

Why bother, in that case? Why not just stick to your own emotions?
Emotions are tricky things. If you are not sure of your own emotions you through identification might confuse your own with the other and get all mixed up. I have to know where I am at to make a clear cut empathy. If you are suffering I can feel your pain but have to stand back and realize it's not me. If I happen to already have the same pain at that time, I'm not sure. My own pain may overpower the chance for clear empathy.

I'm more in favor of rationality but may desire to help someone. In that case my desire is under control and I will engage in empathy. But if I'm already in trouble, there is no room.

Good question.
 
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
Location
Far away from All This
#6
I don't believe the @ sign works unless you copy the handle.

Emotions are tricky things. If you are not sure of your own emotions you through identification might confuse your own with the other and get all mixed up. I have to know where I am at to make a clear cut empathy. If you are suffering I can feel your pain but have to stand back and realize it's not me. If I happen to already have the same pain at that time, I'm not sure. My own pain may overpower the chance for clear empathy.

I'm more in favor of rationality but may desire to help someone. In that case my desire is under control and I will engage in empathy. But if I'm already in trouble, there is no room.

Good question.
Interesting. Thanks for the great response. How do I make the @ symbol work again? I am now only confused about that.
 
Local time
Today, 11:13
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
#7
@ Big Appel Pi: well I also thought it was some sort of feeling; but some class mates argued that it was not about feeling but understanding the emotions of the other.
I was surprized by what they said, but again they might be aspergers people !
@WALKYRIA. As I said to wolf, the @ fails to notify unless you copy the name.

Understanding? I believe one does not decouple reason from desire. Ti and Fi happen at the same time but one is not conscious of both at the same time. For the INTP, they go with Ti mostly. Understanding has a motive (feeling) underneath. It doesn't have to be a raging passion. The aspergers people? I'm not sure how their emotions work? Maybe they are limited by focusing on limited desires. Don't know.
 
Local time
Today, 09:13
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
101
#8
em·pa·thy [em-puh-thee]
noun
1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
 

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#9
@WALKYRIA. As I said to wolf, the @ fails to notify unless you copy the name.
Humm, just copied Wolf18, didnt know it was a notifying thing.. too much empathy eh.:angel:
em·pa·thy [em-puh-thee]
noun
1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
Ok, so what does it mean?

I was actually wondering if one depending on the type, used one or another empathy. Mostly Cognitive empathy for INTPs and affective empathy for INFPS let's say..
 
Local time
Today, 11:13
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
8,988
Location
New York City (The Big Apple) & State
#12
@Wolf18. To do that <--, put an @ sign. Then I copied and pasted Wolf18 from the upper left of your message. This should send out a "notify" count which I see on my upper right. Do you see the notify?
 
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
575
Location
Far away from All This
#13
@Wolf18. To do that <--, put an @ sign. Then I copied and pasted Wolf18 from the upper left of your message. This should send out a "notify" count which I see on my upper right. Do you see the notify?
I got it, @BigApplePi. But I just copied the code. There was not easy way to do that. No notifications. Did you get one?

WALKYRIA, sorry for derailing your thread.

SW
 

Minimalist

"The wise man knows that he knows nothing" or some
Local time
Today, 08:13
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
34
Location
The 3rd dimension
#14
Hello, in order to avoid confusion, there must be a distinction made between empathy and sympathy. Empathy, as is currently understood, involves mirror neurons as a previous poster remarked. What are these mirror neurons? Well they are what allow us essentially to learn by observing. Upon observing an action, the same neurons in our brain fire as if we were performing the action ourselves. The same principle appears to hold true for emotional mirroring if you will. These neurons allow us to experience the emotions of another. What then, is sympathy? Sympathy is the physical manifestation and acknowledgement of empathy. It is information conveyed to the other from the self that communicates to the other that the self is either experiencing empathy or would like the other to believe so. I would enjoy further analysis of empathy in an attempt to account for the varying capacities of different individuals to experience empathy or the complete lack thereof (psychopathy). I would propose that one's ability to experience empathy could be due to the sheer volume of mirror neurons located in the limbic system (emotional center) of the brain or perhaps with other factors such as the presence of neurotransmitters in specific areas of the brain. In any case, I am probably going off on a tangent here, but hopefully your question was adequately resolved by others here and my own insights. More importantly, hopefully this train of discussion will lead to even more questions as questions have a habit of doing. Cheers.
 

WALKYRIA

Active Member
Local time
Today, 16:13
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
492
#15
Psychopath don't totally lack empathy; they lack the affective empathy. But have cognitive empathy(related to the theory of mind). autist spectrum people lack cognitive but not emotional empathy. It's the dichotomy that I wasnt aware of.

I think it's important to divide empathy in it's many components.
Now the question is, can one develop empathy? how? growing mirror neurons?
 

Ink

Well-Known Member
Local time
Today, 17:13
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
926
Location
svealand
#16
Psychopath don't totally lack empathy; they lack the affective empathy. But have cognitive empathy(related to the theory of mind). autist spectrum people lack cognitive but not emotional empathy. It's the dichotomy that I wasnt aware of.

I think it's important to divide empathy in it's many components.
Now the question is, can one develop empathy? how? growing mirror neurons?
Just try and put yourself in others shoes, with Ne primarily leading to some Fe
 
Local time
Today, 09:13
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
101
#17
Psychopath don't totally lack empathy; they lack the affective empathy. But have cognitive empathy(related to the theory of mind). autist spectrum people lack cognitive but not emotional empathy. It's the dichotomy that I wasnt aware of.

I think it's important to divide empathy in it's many components.
Now the question is, can one develop empathy? how? growing mirror neurons?
I first started developing empathy when I worked in tech support. When the users would convey how upset they were over a lost hard drive, I would recall a similar experience and how it made me feel, then relay that. With two years on the phones doing that, it became much more natural for me now.

I think cognitive empathy escapes me. But then I am diagnosed with ASD and have a poor 'theory of mind'. :P
 

Minimalist

"The wise man knows that he knows nothing" or some
Local time
Today, 08:13
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
34
Location
The 3rd dimension
#18
Psychopath don't totally lack empathy; they lack the affective empathut have cognitive empathy(related to the theory of mind). autist spectrum people lack cognitive but not emotional empathy. It's the dichotomy that I wasnt aware of.

I think it's important to divide empathy in it's many components.
Now the question is, can one develop empathy? how? growing mirror neurons?
Yes, i should have been more precise with my language. Empathy as an abstract idea could indeed encompass more realms than the mere emotional. I suppose it was my own automatic tendency to think of emotional empathy when i hear the term because it is where i see it used most often. So shall we use a more broad definition of empathy here? Upon further analysis i find it fitting to define empathy as "the capacity to allow the self to become the other, for the subject to become the object, whether or not loss of subjectivity is involved." Why do i impose that last condition? Well, imagine an Individual who has a relatively high emotional response to perceived events. That person may feel bad for another being in a trying situation even though this other does not feel emotionally charged. I have run into situations in which others have claimed To feel concern for my feelings when i feel neutral. They put themselves into the situation from their own subjective standpoint and felt that they would be hurt in the situation. Lets take this a bit further. Intps tend to be less prone to react emotionally to a situation and therefore less stuff shakes us up so to speak, or rather stuff of a less common variety. That being said, how could we experience genuine concern for the plight of another if that plight would not hurt ourselves under the given conditions? We may come off cold because we cannot respond to stuff that shakes up another which would not shake us up had we been the one in those shoes. As for unemotional , i would imagine it to be governed the same. What are your definitions for empathy?
 
Local time
Today, 11:13
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
151
#19
It is a sense like sight and sound.

You would navigate and manipulate the social environment with empathy, as you would navigate the three dimensions with sight.

There are subtleties to a persons behavior that act as indicators to what's inside. It results in a sort of presence or mood flowing from others into you; some people fade into the woodwork some people are so intense you can't ignore them, even in silence. And you can lose yourself to them, like mixing colors, your thoughts will fade and their inner experiences will command your behavior. You could also find yourself thinking this, "Oh that person is dreadfully upset, that's neat." And then go about your business, It depends on your motives and opinions of that person.

Another effect is this, my father is ISTJ, he lives in a world of checks and balances and cold obligation. He provides and works himself to death for others without even thinking. When I am around him I become this, if I choose. I work and build and put things in there place to keep things running. Not out of any logic or argument, but just because I'm in the position to do so. You care to do it, because they care to do it.
-
In this way it's a form of integration with a group. You can absorb who you're with, and adjust accordingly, taking on the mood and any role you are placed in. A silent co-operation, a cohesiveness of mind.

Empathy is usually a reciprocal and mutual experience, it enables common purpose, a unit. Although a sociopath would make you feel certain ways for their own purposes.


I have no trouble at all feeling and knowing of another. Even when they hide it. I can do as I please with this information. Do I feel it with them? Do I use it to guide or change the situation? Do I use it to my gain? Maybe I'll do nothing, and go about my day. However I don't seem to be able to make others feel the way I feel. I am always at the receiving end, My feels are my own, and your feels are also mine.
 
Top Bottom