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empathy in the right place

sdm

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#1
Frustrated because I think my empathy skills are strong. As an NT I think not only do I step into the shoes of individuals different then me I can in fact feel what might be going on.

Does anyone else feel annooyed that "F"s" get the empathy description and the "T"S" don"t, maybe in particular the NT"S

Ok here's the truth. I can. I get what people are thinking before they text it. I sense when news will be good or bad. I feel anger when someone doesn't tell me the truth
and then kick myself because I also know what they're going through.

I think this is empathy. I also know it"s my extroverted N helped with my Introverted T, I can imagine what they're thinking I can feel it. So, anyone else?

so yes I know I suck I'm putting the only msg to myself but it was worse when I was in general info. My apologiess for my lack of cooridination
 

GYX_Kid

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#2
NT flavor of empathy. Maybe a cliche "nurturing instinct" could be classified as a more F-variant. Ours is usually a more "rational understanding" of others.
 

Dimensional Transition

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#3
I feel the same way.
I think most NTs feel like you (and I) do as well, of course NTs feel empathy, but it's just not very... complicated. Of course I can feel a bad atmosphere, but I can't feel at all what I should do in certain situations. I find it very hard to know which response is appropriate in difficult situations. I always want to go with the rational one, but I know other people might see that as blunt. It's hard to give examples but I think many of you know what I mean.

Some people (women in particular for some reason, maybe because they're more often Fs) make social interaction WAY more complicated than it has to be in my opinion. I encounter a lot of double-messages and blatant lies, which piss me off. When I don't like someone, I tell it to them, and avoid them. Simple as that. 'Socially complicated' people seem to want to 'ease the pain' by lying to that person all the time, and letting him or her find out (s)he's not wanted months or years later, actually planning out stuff to keep them in a world that's not what they think it is.
 
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#4
Does anyone else feel annooyed that "F"s" get the empathy description and the "T"S" don"t, maybe in particular the NT"S
Where did you get this from? Why do you find it annoying?

Frustrated because I think my empathy skills are strong. As an NT I think not only do I step into the shoes of individuals different then me I can in fact feel what might be going on.
I have a very strong iNtuition preference, and I am also very good at understanding/picking up on different points of view, emotions etc. I am also good at picking up moods, even without any verbal cues. However I don't believe this is so much something I feel, or identify with, so much as I simply know.

Empathy is more than just understanding, it is feeling, identification, sensitivity. Do you feel as the other person is feeling, or do you simply know how they feel? Those are two very different things.
 

Chimera

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#5
Empathy is more than just understanding, it is feeling, identification, sensitivity. Do you feel as the other person is feeling, or do you simply know how they feel? Those are two very different things.
Just wanted to weigh in on how much I adore this distinction.
 

GYX_Kid

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#6
I have a very strong iNtuition preference, and I am also very good at understanding/picking up on different points of view, emotions etc. I am also good at picking up moods, even without any verbal cues. However I don't believe this is so much something I feel, or identify with, so much as I simply know.

Empathy is more than just understanding, it is feeling, identification, sensitivity. Do you feel as the other person is feeling, or do you simply know how they feel? Those are two very different things.
That could bring up debate over the most literal definition of empathy- which is probably something more along the lines of "feeling something due to someone else visibly feeling something", because you're probably not going to feel exactly the same as the other person is feeling.

Someone might feel alarm and pity over someone whose finger got sliced off (not pain in their own finger). I think the ideal for something like this is to lean more towards "knowing" the situation, knowing what to do about it. Even if there are feelings from it, they get compartmentalized and used for the greater purpose.

^I realized that isn't the best example, because the wounded person would probably also be feeling alarmed. There are however examples in which the "empathic" can misinterpret due to real lack of understanding.
 

SkyWalker

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#7
feeling is a distributed herd mind mentality
 

Trebuchet

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#9
Does anyone else feel annoyed that "F"s" get the empathy description and the "T"S" don"t, maybe in particular the NT"S
Yes, it bugs me. Empathy is a thing all human types are capable of, and it is very important to us as a social species. I'm sure some types are better at it, on average, than others, but I don't think T or F is where that difference lies. Basing your reactions and decisions on your head rather than your gut doesn't mean you can't empathize. Preferring to avoid garish displays of emotion doesn't mean you can't empathize, either.

When someone is having a hard time, the NTs I know at least try to avoid being judgmental, and try not to make things worse. We know when something is wrong, even if we don't know how to fix it.

I've had a lot of people come to me for sympathy, because I don't try to turn it into some sort of learning experience, or explain how it could be worse, or tell them how my day was harder than theirs. I let people be sad, or frustrated, or angry, and I don't insist they should "cheer up" or "look on the bright side," which is what those "empathetic" types always seem to do.
 

sdm

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#10
It's been a long time since I started this discussion. That doesn't mean it hasn't been at the front on my mind. I have come to believe more confidently that empathy is more naturally connected with the intuition preference rather than the feeling preference.

Why so many of us intp's connect with people so deeply. The thinking does kick in and while we may feel someone's pain the want to problem solve makes us appear (and we may be) unsympathetic.

However. it is the intuition - the ability to think broadly about ideas and perspectives that sucks us in. How can we not feel others pain, sense what is to come, see a completely different view from what might be our own?
 

Hadoblado

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#11
Holy reanimation batman. Wowzers~!

I don't think you should let the description of the type you identify concern you if it doesn't fit. Perhaps consider a different type, perhaps consider the veracity of MBTI, but don't feel attacked or pigeonholed. There's no reason you should be held back by the archetype.

Theory of Mind tends to be intuitive in the common sense. Everyone has it to varying degrees unless they're neuro-atypical. I'd think that Ne+Ti would be good at modeling what other people are feeling abstractly, but see no reason why you would just 'intuit' ToM to a greater degree than others if these defined your personality.
 

redbaron

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#12
i don't really wanna get hung up on mbti terminology but i think there's different types of empathy and that the sort of empathy an INTP provides is different to say, an ISFP

i'm reluctant to say that a specific function could be 'more' empathetic in a broad sense
 

Jennywocky

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#13
terminology is always a bear, people use the same word to mean different things or don't agree on what it means. I try to distinguish between "grasping" and "feeling" with empathy vs sympathy but that's just a makeshift difference to bootstrap communication.

Also, I kind of don't give a shit for MBTI that is exclusionary. A Feeler still can be really smart and problem-solve, and a Thinker can care about people and "feel" things. Type does not cut off parts of your humanity or personality, it just talks about how we prioritize, what we focus on, and so forth. Sure, iNtuition might allow someone to more easily put themselves in another's shoes even when they haven't met them and/or have never been in the situaiton, but I would also say Sensors are quicker and more easily grasp situations they've been in themselves and grasping more of the realistic (exact) realities of it, whereas the iNtuitives have a fuzzier even if broader grasp. doesn't make much sense to limit empathy/sympathy/whatever we label it to a function type, especially because individuals are so different even when sharing a type.

All that being said, where I find my own conflict is -- I am pretty sensitive inside to myself and others and perceive a lot (I think) and often feel empathy... but I also have a very strong sense of individualism and independence, of letting people do things themselves rather than doing it FOR them, and this will put dampers on my response... not that I don't care or can't see something, but I don't want to baby people or constrict them or rob them of their own autonomy. Or giving them something they don't actually want out of my own misguided internal response; I'd rather respect them enough for them to tell me what they want and THEN I can help accurately. But I understand also that some folks are LOOKING for a response because they don't value the independence thing as much as they value a display of compassion. So it makes it complicated. I have come to terms that I can't be all things to all people and maybe they should look elsewhere for certain kinds of responses, although I wish I could be better at knowing what to give.
 

sdm

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#14
terminology is always a bear, people use the same word to mean different things or don't agree on what it means. I try to distinguish between "grasping" and "feeling" with empathy vs sympathy but that's just a makeshift difference to bootstrap communication.


.[/QUOTE]

That's a really good point. Sometimes I forget my interpretation of language isn't the same as others.
 
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