egoism

[arkityp]

is having self-confidence good or bad for an INTP? discuss.

 

[Ogion]

I think self-confidence is good for everyone, no? For us (at least for me) it is something of a mix. I mean, we know we are probably a bit more intelligent or say intelligence-oriented than most others, so there is a piece of support for being self-confident. Then again, there are things at which we are not good at (social situations...).

But i think, it really is just a question of attitude and will.

Ogion

 

[Dissident]

is having self-confidence good or bad for an INTP? discuss.

At your command!

I would first like to question the ralation between egoism (the threads name) and self-confindence, does such relation exist?

 

[arkityp]

I would first like to question the ralation between egoism (the threads name) and self-confindence, does such relation exist?

i've met a few INTPs (one who i dated), who were self-absorbed and rational egoists (almost narcissistic ad nauseam). i'm not sure if it's a generalized theory but both worshiped Ayn Rand. :P

perhaps this was false confidence. we're hard to read at times.

i guess i was interested in seeing if there was correlation between the two. can you be INTP and work towards cultivating better self-confidence WITHOUT developing a moral system that is based on exploitation of environment, peers, etc. in the motivation of selfishness.

i'm not looking for textbook theory; more so tangible application and personal accounts.

we all exploit each other to some extent - this is human nature and human nature is extremely flawed.

i realize the above description is a very rare one, but i wonder how many people here (or others they've known), have eventually developed a persona similar to the INTPs i speak of.

i ask because i am working on controlling my shadow and increasing my confidence. sometimes it's hard to fight the depersonalization of INTP, however at other times i think, "you know what... i'm f'ing awesome. i have definitely contributed more than everyone around me and i should be rewarded for that."

but i jest: we all have purpose, however (in)significant it may seem.

i just don't want to get to the point of above. i believe the best reward is a sense of self-accomplishment, but when everyone around me is being fed an immediate reward (money, fame, etcetc) it's perplexing to apply my own moral structure in a way that doesn't leave me wondering "why doesn't anyone notice?"

 

[Jordan~]

Rand. >
No wonder!

 

[arkityp]

Rand. >
No wonder!

ROFL i'm with you

 

[nooli4]

In others, I do often admire self-confidence because it means they have conviction to get across their views and I can have problems with this. But, though I sometimes find myself wishing I had more confidence in myself, people have often told me that they admire me for my modesty.

at other times i think, "you know what... i'm f'ing awesome. i have definitely contributed more than everyone around me and i should be rewarded for that."

However, I also find myself doing exactly that at times and being incredibly arrogant to the point where people get annoyed as well as confused because it is out of character for me. But most of the time, I am completely the opposite and convince myself that everything I think must be wrong.

To conclude, in my opinion, self-confidence is a good thing for some but I think in INTPs it can be both good and bad, though it depends on the situation. I'm not really sure if anything I've written makes sense, it's probably quite incoherent and irrelevant, so sorry.

 

[arkityp]

people have often told me that they admire me for my modesty.

i hear this a lot too. but mostly "you should have more confidence in yourself. you're really smart!". i just don't want it to take me to the place where i feel most confident, which like you... can be arrogant at times. also, people and their lack of common sense/increase of stupidity frequently anger me. i can be a total a$$hole at times!

 

[Dissident]

Please dont blame Rand, she didnt say anything about exploiting others, crappy people exist regardless of her.

I can only talk for me since I sadly dont know any INTP IRL (that Im aware of).
I try to be as objective as I can, there are some things that I know Im good at, a lot that Im just averange, and others which Im really pathetic at. Generalizing by saying "Im confident about myself" (in all situations) is just silly, its like having faith which Im not a big fan of.
Believing that you are better than what you actually are or expecting more recognizement than you deserve is not rational egoism, no matter what they said (and much less objetivism). As for me, not a narcissist at all. Self absorbed? Absorbed in thoughts maybe, but not thoughts about myself, and I usually would rather talk about anything but about myself (in person atleast).

I dont aim for self-confidence, but for self-knowledge (not to think/believe that I will succeed, but to know wether I will or not do so)

 

[Wisp]

Nnnn. I come across as arrogant, but that's just a shell.

I really should go find more self-confidence.

 

[nooli4]

A friend of mine was saying today about intelligence and that whenever they say something smart (basically uses long words) everyone gets annoyed with them. To which I replied I've never noticed anyone annoyed with me when I use long words (which I do insatiably). My friend is extroverted and pointed out that I was 'smart and quiet' while they were 'smart and loud.' It seems that being smart and loud is a bad thing beacuse if you're not modest about your intelligence, people get annoyed with you. Anyway, I felt it was relevant to this discussion, as it may show something about self-confidence... or maybe not. So, any thoughts or musings?

 

[Ermine]

Yay for Rand! Yeah, I'm very glad I have some self confidence to call my own. Otherwise, I'd be more dysfunctional than I already am.

 

[Jordan~]

Seeing all this mention of Rand is confusing early in the morning, as I'm more used to "Rand" referring to the male protagonist of The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan than to the female antagonist of philosophasty.

And on topic, I recognise what nooli4 says. There's someone I know who people tend to be frustrated with because she's smart (who's ENTP); while no one minds me being smart, and they'll actually ask me questions about things - especially Classics. If we're watching a dramatisation of something, they'll be all "Did that really happen?" and "Is that what it was like?"

 

[Olba]

Confidence is both good and bad. Too little leads to shyness, but too little leads to arrogance and therefore ignorance.

Also, confidence isn't really that useful. The only place I can see it as useful is if you're a leader. If you're a leader who seems confident, people will have an easier time trusting you, therefore making it easier for you to lead them.

In my case, I don't really know. I've been called narcissistic once and pretentious several times. If anything, me acknowledging that there're people who far surpass me can come off as a lack of confidence to some people. But exactly because I haven't met such people, I keep doubting my own abilities.

Strangely enough, if I'm pushed on to the chair of a leader, I don't doubt myself for a moment. However, I also tend to have the bad qualities in leadership, such as being demanding. Usually, I decline the position, but the exception would be if the group doesn't progress at all or seems lost.

 

[PreAlgebra]

Nay for Ayn Rand.

The self-confidence thing is a funny thing. I think that It can be very useful in the right contexts but it does shut down certain receptors to valuable information. As for the connection of confidence to egoism, I dont know if I see one. To me, egoism has so many negative connotations. As opposed to the average intp, who may be accused of being insensitive to other people, egoism seems to be the blatant disregard for other people.

I can be very self-confident at times then very self-deprecating at other times about the same things and I cant figure this out. I know a lot of people find me to be a self-confident person and have been accused of being arrogant. While others find me very modest and full of self-doubt. A friend of mine told me that I have the self-confidence equivalent of the crying happy clown. If only I could synthesis this and not be so polar. Has any one else had this experience?