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Doctor Who Mafia

PmjPmj

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Positively Evil... ?








Could well be!
 

redbaron

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Was prepared to switch to Cheese wagon but not now.
 

redbaron

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Not Doctor:

RB
John
Minu
Rook
 

PmjPmj

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No you weren't - don't bullshit me. A few piss-take posts wouldn't swing you.

I've made my case. Do what you will (and what you will is me being lynched, so step the fuck down from your high horse and own it, pussy :p)
 

PmjPmj

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Oh and I did actually note my role in my giga-post. So fuck you for skim-reading and missing it, buddy.

:phear:
 

redbaron

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Um no in case you haven't been reading I actually townread you and I think you'll flip green here. I've only been saying it for the last 2 pages retard.
 

redbaron

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And I kinda wanted you to actually say your role not just eliminate roles you aren't. That scummy as fuck.

Not Doctor:

RB
Pmj
Rook
Minu
John
 

redbaron

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So Latte or Happy can counterclaim.
 

PmjPmj

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You're bullshitting me. Why did you re-vote me and fail to attempt a Cheese wagon? Poor form. Huge disparity between your words and your actions.

Nah mate. You just can't be arsed now. Lazy, lazy boy. You've locked the kill in and now, even with 24 hours to spare, you've resigned yourself to it. Kiss your perfect win goodbye.

I hope the impurity of it all haunts you at night.

MF.

*sobs inconsolably*

But seriously m8s. Vote Cheese. Or Happy. Or anyone but me.

#townwinftw
#maxiboner
#fuckally'all

:angel:
 

PmjPmj

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Hey, redbaron. Go back and read #331:

Pmjpmj said:
The fact is that I am town. There, I've fucking said it. Yawn. I'm not the doctor; I'm not a PR. I'm town.

Learn to read.

#rbfail
#rbisscum
#lynchthecunt
#likenoreally-lynchhimnow

>_>
 

cheese

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Yesyesyes RB, everything you said is WHY I TRUSTED YOU. Do you even read my posts? I've already fucking said all this shit. I narrowed down all the options based on reasoning that you're now parroting which basically ruled out Pmj having idiotTownclaimed. Pmj is still by far my top read, and yes it's a stretch that you could be scum. I don't "think you're scum", I'm checking whether there's a remote chance you could be. I'm only reconsidering you because I KNOW I am the Dr, and you went from wanting to kill Pmj Day 1 and vote him first thing after my CC start of Day 2, to thinking I was the more likely scum than him. This is so fishy I'd be a fool not to check it, just as you're checking others.

And this:

redbaron said:
@Cheese: why was your post #145 on page3 in this thread completely devoid of any analysis of Helvete when he was one of the most active players in the game?


Uh, I also didn't do Latte. I said I'd get to the others later as I was going to work. At the end of the post. Did you see this? I suspected you and Happy most so I devoted the most time to it. I knew I hadn't gotten to even the others I'd already already mentioned in depth, so I wanted to actually take a good crack at it. After getting home and spending hours on the post clearing up my earlier post on you and responding to Min, then finally starting on that post about others, Pmj soft-claimed and I nearly fell off my chair. He was not a suspect of mine at all; you'll see in my posts I suspected you more than I did him. I instantly started panicking about whether to CC now or hold out for more info through watching more pressure develop. I also wanted to ensure I stayed alive that night in order to bring the info about Pmj's claim being fake to light.

I actually detailed, in my huge first post of Day 2, my thinking process regarding CCing immediately. I mentioned in there that I wanted to see pressure on Helvete.

Here is the original post which never made it because Pmj's claim made it irrelevant:
I'm going to try do to the rest in one mega-post.

Helvete:
Started the day voting John, following a seeming joke by Rook. Helv seemed to take it as a joke too since he referenced irrelevant, Dr.Who-based reasons for trusting Rook. To be honest, I didn't think anything of it and assumed it was simply start-of-game shenanigans. However, RB framed it as a strategy, upon which Helvete unvoted, claiming he wanted to see RB's reaction. Questioned RB on strategy, wanted him to reveal optimal town strategy.

Unfortunately I'm not getting anything from this. His tone seemed suspicious to me (yeah I use gut, I can't help it), but his actions could easily be start-of-day confusion.

Helvete said:
In my mind the RVS generates discussion. I jumped on the john wagon to play along with rook and rb and see how they or others would act to allow me to try and gauge some judgements on them.

This is more or less in line with what RB explained later.

The two main things that bother me about him are:
1. His unvote on John when RB implied the john-wagon was strategy-related.
He cleared this up fairly convincingly and said it hadn't been a very well thought-out action. It's complicated by the fact that RB had just asked him to change his voting colour. Presumably if he was pushing for information on the fly he might've changed his vote while legitimising his vote colour just to see what happened.

2. He's copied 3 out of the 4 votes RB has made. Always following RB making them. I don't know if this is a timing issue or what, but afaik we all live in Australia (I think).

Pmj:
"Scumslip" in first post, where he called john an 'innocent bystander'. (Only scum would know who all the Town/innocent are.) Tbh, this looks less like a scumslip and way more like calling someone 'innocent' because they're not actually present and the votes being thrown on john were 100% baseless. If you're not unaware or on board with the strategy Rook and RB were attempting, this looks like trying to get a complete unknown, who has no opportunity to defend themselves. I read 'innocent bystander' more in the sense of being completely uninvolved in the current proceedings and at the mercy of rogue players, rather than 'innocent' meaning Town.

Pmj said:
I don't mean to answer a question with a question, but at this point in the game your bandwagon is naught more than lulz. What is there to gain from it?

This is how I read the john bandwagon too. I thought it was just start-of-day shenanigans. RB, Helv and Rook were all being flippant and joking around; no way I was going to take it seriously.

Then Pmj threw a vote on RB because of 'banter', following what he thought was the spirit of the thread at that time. (RB had just flippantly called for a Pmj lynch.)

Then Pmj FoS'd Happy after his post about time constraints, and followed it with banter. Happy himself has just said that he, too, took it as a joke.

RB's capitalised on these things to form a case against Pmj, but I don't see it here. Pmj's style has been playful and irreverent even as a game-host. His focus there was on making things crazy and players doing as they wanted for maximum zaniness. I don't see anything indicating scumminess in the above 3 things. People's perceptions are so far more in line with Pmj's (thinking the john wagon was just joking around, and joking around in general) than RB's. His mistakes are plausible as well, given similar behaviour in games both as player and host.

However, his focus has been mainly on defending himself then counter-accusing RB. (To be fair, if you consistently think someone's accusations of you are utter bullshit, you're eventually going to find them scummy.)

His response to RB is well on the money to me. RB had a fairly convincing counter to his points, but nothing in his post seemed scummy to me.

If anything, RB seems to be jumping at shadows.

Happy:
I'm doing Happy again because he's paired with Pmj and has just defended himself.

Rook's point about tempering our Dalek-read of him made sense. Happy's recent defense has also suggested he genuinely believes his argument was viable grounds for discussion. I'm having trouble imagining a Dalek would see something like this as at all convincing to Town (especially since he'd have one Dalek buddy to advise him otherwise). Furthermore, no one picked up on his unusual argument before I did, several posts later, so maybe it's not even that big a deal. I may have inadvertently picked up on a Townie's blunder/misunderstanding of the game and allowed scum to start rolling his wagon downhill. The biggest thing his argument has done is made him suspicious in Town's eyes and a prime candidate for lynching - certainly not something scum would want.

However, his lack of reads/cases is a problem that needs rectification. Remember: As town your goal is to make cases on suspected scum, not just defend yourself. You don't win as one player, you win as a group. This means your primary goal isn't to keep yourself alive: even under suspicion/threat of death, your best way of moving towards a win for your team is to read and make cases on other players, because even if you die, everything you've said becomes immediately trustworthy (even if not accurate) - ie provides Town with a lot more trustworthy information.

I also don't see Happy's chainsaw-defense of Pmj. Looking over the incident, he was the first to suspect Pmj along with Rook, then following RB talking about "optimal strategy", moved his suspicion from Pmj to RB-Rook.

Believing there's "optimal strategy" in a game isn't something that comes naturally to most people without a lot of experience in game theory. RB easily comes across as opportunistic and misleading inexperienced town. (I don't think he is misleading intentionally when it comes to strategy; I believe him there.) Moving his suspicion from Pmj to RB following a line about strategy suspicious to the layman is in line with Happy's play up to that point, given that he also suspected Pmj-Rook based on very little explanation and mostly intuition as well.

---

I've just seen Happy's latest post where he states he feels little alignment with town. This is disturbing and makes him deadweight who should be lynched. Not sure if this is rookie behaviour (I find you tend to get more invested in winning as a team the more you play/spectate) or indicative of uncaring scum. Hopefully he reads this in time and is given a chance to remedy it.

This is as far as I got.

I'm getting sick of having to repeat myself. And you complained Day 1 I wasn't reading your posts when you didn't even understand my fucking question and kept dodging it - a question that multiple people asked you. ("Why are you voting Happy/someone other than Pmj IN THE SAME POST where you list Pmj as your top scum reaad?" And you'd keep responding with "What're you talking about, right now I'm voting Pmj!") ffs. Learn to read yourself.

redbaron said:
You're completely wrong that this is "clever" scum game. This is pants on head stupid scumgame because everyone thinks town has totally won, I cornered Helvete on Day 1, and I'm encouraging everyone to find scum JUST IN CASE we don't win right now.

This is NOT "clever" scum game it's fucking retarded. The other ridiculous thing is that apparently Cheese thinks I'm scummy....but then is starting to trust my townread of Pmj?

So...you thought before I was town but had trouble with my strat.

Now you think I'm scum and you have no trouble with trusting my reads...lol

@Pmj: Exactly how hard is it for you to just type your role?

You didn't corner Helvete. You didn't vote him till after Pmj claimed. People were going to switch off Pmj to Helv anyway. You were the tiebreaker, but there were 2 other people after that, me being one of them.

I agreed it was fucking retarded. I've been saying that all along. I now see a way it might've worked, perhaps if you're a much better player, but it's still a long shot.

I'm trusting your townread of Pmj? What the fuck? ARE YOU EVEN IN THE SAME FUCKING THREAD AS I AM? Where the hell have I 'trusted your town read' of him? I fucking townread him from the very beginning; I only switched because of his fakeclaim.

I'm considering a scenario in which you're the scum, and checking for what trails they are - pathetic and unlikely as they may be. This doesn't mean I 'trust your townread of Pmj', it means I'm considering a scenario in which Pmj is town. Just like you're considering a scenario in which he's Town.

And Pmj's already claimed his role:

PmjPmj said:
The fact is that I am town. There, I've fucking said it. Yawn. I'm not the doctor; I'm not a PR. I'm town.

If that's not enough for you, fine. He's still plenty desperate to save his own skin, checking in mainly to see if he has a fighting chance at staying alive. Bottom line is it's still not CC'ing me.

Everyone left in the damn game had already come in and not CC'd me by the time you switched off Pmj. Everyone continued to not CC me. The only people not on the Pmj train were you and Pmj - Pmj believes I'm the Dr and you're both not the Dr according to yourselves. THIS MEANS THE DR WAS ALREADY ON THE PMJ TRAIN. Why the fuck would they not CC me AND vote Pmj if there's only one scum left? It'd either be me or Pmj, AS I'VE FUCKING BEEN SAYING FOR AGES. One of us is lying. Pmj and you aren't the Doc - you roleclaimed Day 1 saying you're VT, and according to your own logic should've jumped straight in Day 2 to roleclaim if you were the Doc. That means the Doc was on the Pmj wagon.
 

cheese

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Stop skimreading everything, misrepresenting what they say and then accusing other people of being ridiculous. Seriously, for fuck's sake.
 

PmjPmj

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Do you even read my posts?

We have clearly established that RB is incapable of reading anyone else's posts.

That'd require him to pull his head from out of his ass.

So self involved, that one.

;)
 

redbaron

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Not Doctor:

RB
Pmj
Latte
Rook
Minu
John

Just waiting on Happy.

At this point Cheese I cbf reading long posts until everyone's claimed because there's a chance you're conftown and I don't need to bother arguing/questioning you.
 

redbaron

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If I misread that's fine my bad. We can argue if Happy counterclaims you.
 

cheese

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Here's something else juicy I can do. :D Save wasting a lynch on mislynching me.

Latte, you're going to receive something from the Doctor soon. When you do, say in this thread that you've received it. This will go beyond the lack of CCs in confirming me completely as Doctor. DON'T SAY THE NAME or what it allows you to do. I will say however that the order of certain letters in the name is 43232. I trust you to be able to work this out. You receiving something from the Doctor alone following this announcement should confirm me, but I wanted to give you extra proof that I'm not making this up, hence the little puzzle.

I'm going to bold this message to Latte in every post until he acknowledges receipt.


(Please also note that it may take some time, as Yellow has to both get my message and then pass a message onto you. :p But it should happen well in advance of EoD, so there's no chance of either of us dying beforehand.)

I'm choosing Latte because he was one of the first on the Helvete wagon and never jumped off. Helvete was scum, so Latte's basically confirmed town. I trust Latte and he's currently active. I was originally going to go with Rook or Min because they're more active, but they're not around right now.

So once Latte confirms me as Doc, let's not waste time mislynching/flipping me. Pmj goes first, and if he flips green then RB tomorrow - quite possibly after I'm NK'd. If you decide I come across unbearably scummy, you can of course decide otherwise, but that's on you. We should still be able to win even if you mislynch me, as long as you observe and analyse carefully. If I'm somehow completely wrong about those two, you should be able to discover it within the next 60 hours (ie by Day 3).
 

PmjPmj

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Cheese's rage burns through the monitor. Dude must be high pitched as fuck right now, squealing in damn near agony at RB's ignorance.

FU RB. You're a bad person, and you should feel bad.

You are the reason we can't have nice things any more.
 

Minuend

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This is jon's second game, how would he think about not doing a NK if he was left alone? I guess it's possible, but strikes me as a bit unlikely

That's a shame.

You also said that you're fine with mislynching. Which is also a shame. I'm with RB - I'd rather get it right.

But, hey ho. Lynch me. When I flip green, turn your attention to Happy. I'm almost certain that he is the final scum. If it isn't him, I'll be incredibly surprised.

Your current methods might not net you a perfect game, but it's close enough I guess. That it would be (I believe) the first town victory on INTPf is good enough in my mind. As RB said, I win with town. I'd rather still be in the game, but I accept that my utterly wank gameplay has led to my untimely demise.

Idk, this kinda seems to me like you're trying to use the "perfect game" against us to make us second guess lynching you

I've read through pmj's posts again, and there's nothing there that convinces me he's town. I don't have a bad feeling about lynching pmj based on what I've read. Now, I'm not naturally aware of all scum strategies etc, like when you're supposed to buss or distance yourself. But if it was awkwardly done, it's still not as awkward as town fake claim a role on day 1, right?

So which is more weird behavior from pmj? The helv - pmj interactions or townie fake claiming?

I'm not ruling out he's town completely, but there's nothing that gives me any alarm lynching him at this point.

I do have a tendency to post briefly and "fuck off". I'm not very good at coming up with reasons for why I feel the way I do. All the WIFOM that goes on between many of you just reads like gibberish to me. I think this will be my last game because, while I enjoy testing my intuition, it doesn't provide a good gaming experience for others. I apologize humbly for this.

One of the things that make this game interesting is having people who think and function differently. I haven't thought any ill of your playstyle. Your intuition is better than my reasoning abilities, so :p
I don't have gut feelings, or rather if I try having them they are completely wrong, so I have to work with this entirely with reasoning, or what you'd call it.

This is not my actual case post btw. That's coming (probably a fair bit later). People, please read my posts. I'm trying to work the game out; work with me. At the very least, tear down my arguments if you find them ludicrous; don't just sit there allowing other Town to be misled.

I read your posts, but haven't found anything in particular to comment on. If I were trying to pin you as scum, maybe I would, but I'm trying to wrap my head around pmj for now. As long as noone CCs, I'm reluctant to consider you scum. If pmj flips green, however, things change. I might look more into you tomorrow, but it's getting too late to read your posts in more depth.
 

PmjPmj

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Cheese, your puzzle is irrelevant. I've already contacted Yellow with my own request.

I am the doctor.


Prepare to be shot, Cheese. You're done for.

:smoker:
 

cheese

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Not Doctor:

RB
Pmj
Latte
Rook
Minu
John

Just waiting on Happy.

At this point Cheese I cbf reading long posts until everyone's claimed because there's a chance you're conftown and I don't need to bother arguing/questioning you.

What the fuck is this shit? You're actually going around misreading people and misrepresenting players to each other who are either definitely scum or definitely Dr because you can't be fucked reading their posts?

This is absolutely shit reasoning. You've wasted my time and everyone else's on me having to explain myself over and over and refute bullshit misrepresentations that might've had Town in danger of switching off the obvious scum vote. It's supposed to be Town's job to work together, and you instead got in the way and muddled things up, then think it's insane I think you're scum if Pmj isn't.

Message for Latte:

Latte, you're going to receive something from the Doctor soon. When you do, say in this thread that you've received it. This will go beyond the lack of CCs in confirming me completely as Doctor. DON'T SAY THE NAME or what it allows you to do. I will say however that the order of certain letters in the name is 43232. I trust you to be able to work this out. You receiving something from the Doctor alone following this announcement should confirm me, but I wanted to give you extra proof that I'm not making this up, hence the little puzzle.

I'm going to bold this message to Latte in every post until he acknowledges receipt.
 

cheese

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Hah! Nice try Pmj. I'm glad I woke up early to make sure I sent that message in early. Pffft.
 

PmjPmj

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Whaaaat? You didn't find my case convincing, Minuend?

My feelings are hurt ;_;
 

redbaron

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Cheese if Happy doesn't counter-claim you're confirmed anyway.

That's why my vote is still on Pmj relax.
 

cheese

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Whoops, forgot:

Message for Latte:
Latte, you're going to receive something from the Doctor soon. When you do, say in this thread that you've received it. This will go beyond the lack of CCs in confirming me completely as Doctor. DON'T SAY THE NAME or what it allows you to do. I will say however that the order of certain letters in the name is 43232. I trust you to be able to work this out. You receiving something from the Doctor alone following this announcement should confirm me, but I wanted to give you extra proof that I'm not making this up, hence the little puzzle.

I'm going to bold this message to Latte in every post until he acknowledges receipt.
 

redbaron

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Also Cheese I'm sorry but if you're still pushing a lynch for me I can't not say something because that's pants on head retarded.
 

redbaron

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So we lynch Pmj then Cheese and game is over.
 

redbaron

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Or fuck we can just lynch Cheese first? :^)
 

redbaron

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LMAO @ Pmj you fucking nerd claiming doctor now.

Doctors:
Cheese
Pmj

Unclaimed:
Happy
 

PmjPmj

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I think Cheese > VICTOLY is the best option right now.
 

PmjPmj

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LMAO @ Pmj you fucking nerd claiming doctor now.

Doctors:
Cheese
Pmj

Unclaimed:
Happy

IFTFY.

Santa will gift you with lumps of coal this Christmas.

Maybe an orange or two.
 

redbaron

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Yeh but how did Cheese know about the message ability if he's not the real Doctor?
 

Rook

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I conjecture its over with PMj.

We'll see...hmm holy holsitic hot dogs Iv'e been awake how long now? Eyes are flimsy bulbous protrusions.
 

cheese

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Cheese if Happy doesn't counter-claim you're confirmed anyway.

That's why my vote is still on Pmj relax.

Man, fuck off about relaxing. I don't give a shit what role you are - you've been annoying and needlessly time-consuming Day 2.

Here it is again:

redbaron said:
Also Cheese I'm sorry but if you're still pushing a lynch for me I can't not say something because that's pants on head retarded.

Where have I said I'm pushing a lynch on you? My vote is still on Pmj. I've said he's far and away my top scum suspect multiple times. I want to lynch Pmj today, not you. Is that clear enough? Stop calling me retarded if you're not going to read what I say. Get a clue what I actually think first, not what you're imagining I think. I'm pushing a lynch on you only if Pmj flips green OR if he flips red without it ending the game. I WAS setting up the case now, just in case.

I'm confirming my role beyond all semi-retarded doubt, in case we're wrong about Pmj - which I know now we're not, because now he's CC'ing.... wow. Hey Pmj, if I flip, you know you die right? You think I'm going to concede the game right now because we're....going to win? :D:D:D:D

Going to the extra effort of confirming so no one can pull any stunts if game doesn't end with Pmj.

Message for Latte:

Latte, you're going to receive something from the Doctor soon. When you do, say in this thread that you've received it. This will go beyond the lack of CCs in confirming me completely as Doctor. DON'T SAY THE NAME or what it allows you to do. I will say however that the order of certain letters in the name is 43232. I trust you to be able to work this out. You receiving something from the Doctor alone following this announcement should confirm me, but I wanted to give you extra proof that I'm not making this up, hence the little puzzle.

I'm going to bold this message to Latte in every post until he acknowledges receipt.
 

redbaron

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Unless that's a thing that isn't to do with Doctor abilities and Cheese is just asking mod to pass on a message, then that's just trying to cheat LOL
 

redbaron

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Cheese you literally said we should lynch me if Pmj is town or whatever.

That's retarded.
 

cheese

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Nah. It'd be fun. :p
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
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But hey unless town are dumb enough to fakeclaim one of Cheese/Pmj is scum, we win regardless now.
 

PmjPmj

Full of stars.
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Yeh but how did Cheese know about the message ability if he's not the real Doctor?

Fucking hell RB.

Learn to read between the lines instead of feverishly clutching at straws.

- I've been trolling for at least half a page
- I informed everyone that I've contacted Yellow with a request
- I've told you the game is effectively over

"Read into that what you will"

(Like, seriously - get with the program you pleb).
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
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Fun because you're scum ;)
 

redbaron

irony based lifeform
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LOLOL is scumteam really Pmj+Helvete?!

LOLOL
 

cheese

Prolific Member
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Nice, Pmj. :D:D:D:D

But Latte still gets my present:

Latte, you're going to receive something from the Doctor soon. When you do, say in this thread that you've received it. This will go beyond the lack of CCs in confirming me completely as Doctor. DON'T SAY THE NAME or what it allows you to do. I will say however that the order of certain letters in the name is 43232. I trust you to be able to work this out. You receiving something from the Doctor alone following this announcement should confirm me, but I wanted to give you extra proof that I'm not making this up, hence the little puzzle.

I'm going to bold this message to Latte in every post until he acknowledges receipt.

Give it, Yellow! GIVE IT! You said you would, give it! GIVE IIIIIIIIIIIT!
 
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