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Do you like Engineers?

Brachiosaurus

I eat foliage
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
13
#1
Okay this is mainly for people who are Engineers, work with Engineers, or know Engineers.

By "Engineer" I do not mean Programmer, Computer Scientist, Software Engineer, Scientists, etc. I mean a person who got their degree in SOMETHING Engineering (Electrical, Mechanical, Chemical, Civil, etc.) and is now an "Engineer" by society's standards.

The Engineers I work with are pretty cool most of the time but I find that most "Engineers" spend more time comparing their dicks with one another than actually getting work done. I find they have inflated view points of themselves, are egotistical maniacs, and are constantly proving and/or showing off how 'smart' they are. For some reason they think they are better than everyone else because they have a real "Engineering" degree.

Any comments on this?
 

Chad

Prolific Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2013
Messages
1,080
Location
Westbrook, Maine
#3
I have one good friend who is a Engineer now, however I have not really stayed in contact with him since he started working as an engineer.

I work in a factory with many engineers but I don't see them much. They seem to stick together and not associate with the machine operators much.
 

r4ch3l

conc/ptu/||/
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
493
Location
CA
#4
My dad is an engineer and he can be very arrogant. You're either right or you're wrong...and he's always right. :rolleyes: I believe he is an ISTP but his arrogance reminds me of my (also former engineer) INTJ ex minus the uber-charisma.

I live in the Bay Area and am surrounded by engineers. I find many of them to be arrogant, stingy, and self-righteous about intellectual categories they define themselves by (i.e.*being an atheist*). While I am friends and acquaintances with many engineers the common arrogance and lack of intuitive intelligence is a major block when it comes to respecting them or taking them seriously. But I am repeatedly drawn to them because of the rational intelligence and general geekiness factors.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,149
Location
Shallow grave
#5
In my books, engineers are a necessary and overrated evil.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,676
Location
Australia
#6
My dad is an engineer and he can be very arrogant. You're either right or you're wrong...and he's always right. :rolleyes: I believe he is an ISTP but his arrogance reminds me of my (also former engineer) INTJ ex minus the uber-charisma.

I live in the Bay Area and am surrounded by engineers. I find many of them to be arrogant, stingy, and self-righteous about intellectual categories they define themselves by (i.e.*being an atheist*). While I am friends and acquaintances with many engineers the common arrogance and lack of intuitive intelligence is a major block when it comes to respecting them or taking them seriously. But I am repeatedly drawn to them because of the rational intelligence and general geekiness factors.
Strange. Most engineers I know are party animals.
 

r4ch3l

conc/ptu/||/
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
493
Location
CA
#9
Strange. Most engineers I know are party animals.
Actually, most of my code monkey friends were also my cocaine friends. I'd estimate those guys had 130K/year salaries and spent at least 30K on yearly party allowance.
 

Minimalist

"The wise man knows that he knows nothing" or some
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
34
Location
The 3rd dimension
#10
My INTJ father is a chemical engineer and my INTJ best friend is an electrical engineer. I find it amusing to provoke discussion with them because they are so stubbornly attached to their systems. Overall they are good folks, but they tend to be a bit critical of my ability to promote disorder and challenge established beliefs. I was continuously being told to fall in line with society by those folks Instead of to change it. Meh, I like analyzing them.
 

TheScornedReflex

(Per) Version of a truth.
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Messages
1,910
#11
My ENTJ friend is currently getting his engineering degree. I don't think he is arrogant. Yet.
 

Etheri

Prolific Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
1,000
#12
I'm in my third year of studying chemical engineering. (Doing the last finals for my bachelor now, starting my master in september)

What you say about bragging is true. It happens, quite often. At the same time, I must say that the course is simply harder more valued by the industry than many other courses... It's not just the other students, but also the teachers / profs and companies that will constantly confirm these ideas. I honestly believe the course just slowly almost makes engineers, including me, arrogant. 'Making sure we know our value...'

As far as the people i'm in class with go, the majority of them is intelligent to very intelligent. At the same time, I was highly dissapointed by how stupid some of these intelligent people are. They seem clueless about the world. Plain racist, stuck up, selfish people. Narrowminded ones, foolish ones, ... I like to discuss ideas. I'd say most of the ones I've met (a couple hundred... mostly students ofcourse) are more intelligent than me, but at the same time have their own way of stupidity or are very narrowminded. It was honestly dissapointing.


Note on personal arrogance inside...
due to belgium's social system and government funding of education, there are some problems with 'supply and demand' in higher education. (Nearly everyone can study, tuition fees are around 600€ / year (full price, less if your parents aren't too wealthy))
This leads to a lot of people studying college / university. Certain degrees are completely overpopulated, especially the 'easiest' university degrees compared to on-par college degrees as they're perceived 'better'.

Out of proportion starters in studies as psychology and social sciences are a main example. The system partly fixes this by failing plenty of people in their first year (in all degrees) leading to re-orientation. (Which costs lots of money to the state, cause it's a 'wasted year' which is mainly paid by the state.) Supply and demand for these degrees still applies and is often noticable. Lots of people graduating in these areas simply end up in a diffrent line of work (which is perfectly fine, ofcourse.) Now you can tell me I'm arrogant, and I probably am, but there's plenty of people I was in highschool with that simply decided to go do psychology because they wanted as little maths and languages as possible, but still wanted to study at uni. They want to be lazy, party lots and be social, which by all means is nothing I can judge, but I'll still mock their studies especially when they even remotely try to mock me. ;)

(I have fair respect for people genuinly interested in psychology. However, due to their abundance, I know quite a few examples of psychology students (or ex-psychology students, the system seems decent at weeding out the worst ones) who simply aren't in their place.)

Question : Do I strike anyone as arrogant? Eh. You can come out and say it, i won't bite. I think.

Tl dr : I'm an arrogant engineering student. I'm too cool for school and half the prominent chemical and oil companies throw gifts at me, begging to come work for them. I think everyone who doesn't study hard sciences, engineering or doctor is totally stupid and mock them regularly. Best part? I'm still a student. :rolleyes:
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,692
#13
I've worked with a lot of engineers, thousands of them. They do fall into tranches that aren't too surprising.

XSTX - The most common
XSFX - Surprisingly frequent, their S helps them with the problem solving
XNTX - Not as frequent *

* As in real life, these types fall in the cracks. You find them where you find them.

In terms of personalities

Traditional Engineers: These guys are interested in cars, often planes, the older ones are often hams (ham radio operators). Usually competent but unspectacular engineers. Pleasant but boring. Often they're crazy about their planes or radios.

Family Guys: Diverse interests. Often into sports, but sometimes just into living and family life (they have a few minor hobbies and such). Good engineers, usually more interesting.

Serious Engineers: Belong to IEEE or other professional groups. Rise to the top of the engineering ranks through the slow and steady. Go to conventions and trade shows. Specialize in some obscure engineering technology. Almost always XSTJ's. Sometimes arrogant about it.

Party Engineers: XSTP's usually. They don't rise very far, they're in it for the money really. Which they save so they can retire to the golf courses (literally), or ski slope, or whatever SP heaven they're bound for.

Modern Engineers: A modern breed of web or pure software guys. Laid back, too cool for cool. Somewhat unsubstantial, almost like they're not really there.

Myself and my INTP friend don't fall in any of these camps, or all of them. We're truly passionate about this stuff, which you don't find in the S types usually. My INTP EE friend likes planes, but is a true blue hardware hacker, with a predilection for old hardware.
 

Analyzer

Hide thy life
Joined
Aug 23, 2012
Messages
1,241
Location
West
#14
Have you ever experienced engineers thinking software/IT is not "true" engineering? My dad and his friend are both mechanical engineers and gives that vibe sometimes.

Which specific field do you find the most N's? I feel like non-software IT(Networking,Hardware) is more sensor based.
 

Etheri

Prolific Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
1,000
#15
@Architect :

Tranches seem fairly accurate. What I think I meant and tried to point out was the huge dominance of 'S' types, which strike me as narrowminded. (Or atleast, if you say anything that doesn't fit in their worldview, you're wrong and they won't accept discussion cause you're clearly wrong.)

I don't think you can make groups, then say you're not part of any of them. You should need to construct a group -albeit small- that you're part of. I mean, if you're not part of any of these groups, then there must be other options?

I'm also wondering where i'll turn out. I don't really feel all too strong affiliation with any of them. I do recognise most / all of these groups in people I know. Whelp, it's like typology-for-engineers (Altho, compared to MBTI, it may lack a little structure but I'll cut you some slack). Time to start typing people in my head all over again :D
 

Magus

Active Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2013
Messages
114
#17
Cannot say I know many personally but from what I gather at my university they are known as either introverted dorky types or that work hard party hard types.
 

Valentas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
506
#18
My father is an engineer and he thinks that software is NOT engineering. However, he does not use computers because as I like to say: what we never tried and experienced, we condemn and live in fear. He does not need computers for his job and thus he does not understand what software engineering is.
 

kvothe27

Active Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
382
#19
The engineering students I've met in college seem a bit boring. Whenever my Ne would start generating ideas and theories, they'd just look at me blankly.

I've met plenty of arrogant programmers within my CS major though. One of my professors actually listed it as a virtue of a good programmer. It's a bit obnoxious. It's just as obnoxious as the arrogant football players were in high school.

My professors seem to encourage it though. They tell us about the high drop out rate within the major, about the money we'll make when we graduate, and they tell the typical jokes about humanities majors ending up as waiters or working in fast food.

I realize many people are either too intimidated, lazy, uninterested, and/or untalented to get through a lot of the classes we have to take, but I still don't think the arrogance is warranted. Most of us have talents that other people don't have. There's no need to look down on people whose talents lie elsewhere.

It also strikes me as unhealthy and immature.
 

Valentas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
506
#20
Lol. I thought the more knowledgeable you are, the more you understand that CS is vast and you learned just a humble part of it after 10 years programming. I think best programmers are aware how much they don't know, this is why they always strive to learn while mediocre ones say that they know tons and are not aware of their own ignorance.

It follows that humble programmer is the best programmer.
 

kvothe27

Active Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
382
#21
Lol. I thought the more knowledgeable you are, the more you understand that CS is vast and you learned just a humble part of it after 10 years programming. I think best programmers are aware how much they don't know, this is why they always strive to learn while mediocre ones say that they know tons and are not aware of their own ignorance.

It follows that humble programmer is the best programmer.

The reasoning is that you need to be arrogant enough to think you could make a better program than anyone, even someone well respected in the profession. In this way, you would be more likely to attempt to design better programs and succeed.
 

Architect

Professional INTP
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
6,692
#22
Have you ever experienced engineers thinking software/IT is not "true" engineering?
That kind of thinking is rampant. My company was started by EE's and that was the case for decades. Now we have more software than EE's in the company and make more money from software options, so that has slaked off. Paradoxically upper management is all from a hardware background and don't really understand software, and our biggest competitor made it because of software. Anyhow, that just shows that corporate DNA is hard to shake.

Regardless the stupid "I'm an engineer you're not" is pointless, but often prevalent.


Which specific field do you find the most N's? I feel like non-software IT(Networking,Hardware) is more sensor based.
I'm not sure, I can't confidently say I've seen enough N's to know. I'd guess software.

@Architect : I don't think you can make groups, then say you're not part of any of them. You should need to construct a group -albeit small- that you're part of. I mean, if you're not part of any of these groups, then there must be other options?
OK you're right

Hackers Usually keep irregular hours; brilliant but erratic. Either have too much education or not enough. Jaded or dismissive of their regular job but intensely passionate about their field and interests, and often other fields and interests. Collectors, either of side projects or very often hardware they find in garbage cans or eBay.

This best describes me, my INTP friend and one or two others I've met.
 

SLushhYYY

Active Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
227
#23
INFJ electrical engineer in the making here. I can confidently say that many engineers are very full of themselves, and honestly not too bright. The only people that I can have an actually stimulating conversation with in the field are ENTPs, I honestly dont think the others are able to visualize the systems or mathematics very well.
 

ProxyAmenRa

Here to bring back the love!
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
4,676
Location
Australia
#24
INFJ electrical engineer in the making here. I can confidently say that many engineers are very full of themselves, and honestly not too bright. The only people that I can have an actually stimulating conversation with in the field are ENTPs, I honestly dont think the others are able to visualize the systems or mathematics very well.
Perhaps those not suited to being engineers are taking engineering degrees?
 
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