Differentiating N/S

[TimeAsylums]

Meh, sort of useful, you can read it or just look at the chart, it's really cool:

http://www.jurisense.com/intuition.htm

Note: I don't agree with everything there, obviously there are some extreme generalities, such as fiction/non-fiction (which I assume was actually mistaken for concrete/abstract or tangible/intangible(cerebral), nonetheless, helpful.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Also:

Education Level Graduate degree less likely (s) Grad degree more likely(n)

...yay? lol

ah:

Jung said “Sense-perception tells us that something is, but it does not tell us what it is.” Sensing perceives isolated things while intuition perceives the complete whole. Intuition is an organizing principal, a way of structuring information

Here is what Albert Einstein had to say about intuition:

The really valuable thing is intuition. The intellect has little to do on the road to discovery. There comes a leap in consciousness, call it intuition or what you will, and the solution comes to you and you don't know how or why.

There is no logical way to the discovery of these elemental laws. There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

I'm sure my fellow N's, and the T-Ns too can recall the ability to "just understand/grasp" things, right? When learning something new or trying to understand something, we 'just' understand?
^ I attribute these statements of mine above to be the awkwardness/pain/whatever difference with the S's, where as most of the N's will grasp something or just accept it, the S needs more physical reasoning. I'm not downplaying either side, just attempting to explain it.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Communication Style Finish others' sentences


ehehehehhehehh

 

[TimeAsylums]

Lol a lot of people find it annoying >_<
I do that shit a lot in movies, but then again, it's not like hollywood is complex or anything lol.

 

[scorpiomover]

I'm sure my fellow N's, and the T-Ns too can recall the ability to "just understand/grasp" things, right? When learning something new or trying to understand something, we 'just' understand?

^ I attribute these statements of mine above to be the awkwardness/pain/whatever difference with the S's, where as most of the N's will grasp something or just accept it, the S needs more physical reasoning. I'm not downplaying either side, just attempting to explain it.

Sort of. Ns tend to "just" understand, or don't understand it at all, even if you try explaining it again. It can be extremely infuriating dealing with Ns, because a lot of the time, it's like talking to a wall. Another problem with Ns, is that when Ns do understand something, they often intuited the thing as if it was something else completely, and are completely wrong.

When Ns do understand something properly, they grasp it much quicker than Ss. The rest of the time, Ss grasp it much, much quicker than Ns. On average, this is the case.

 

[TimeAsylums]

ENTP (Ne>Ti) here, so I can't stave off what you're saying, but I don't disagree with it heheh ...I do get quite a few S, even Ti dom ISTPs calling me infuriating, but I just don't have the patience or capacity to explain something that I intuitively grasp...I don't even say it egotistically or condescendingly, but they take it that way >_< lol

As far as the Ss grasping a lot more a lot quicker, I don't think I agree, perhaps you'll offer some examples? Maybe on different things, perhaps? But as far as my experience goes, (two INTP friends, one intj friend, and myself) it's been beneficial.

 

[Paladin-X]

Jung said “Sense-perception tells us that something is, but it does not tell us what it is.” Sensing perceives isolated things while intuition perceives the complete whole. Intuition is an organizing principal, a way of structuring information

This is slightly misleading. It gives the impression that Intuition tells us what 'it' is; however, that is the role of Thinking. The last sentence I would say is also inaccurate as this sounds like Thinking.

Intuition is about the possibilities "from whence 'it' came and whither 'it' goes," according to Jung. I would agree that seeing 'it' wholistically, ie Big Picture, allows one to better follow those possibilities.

 

[TimeAsylums]

ugh...ISTP. Jk...kind of.
srsly jk.

I know what you're thinking, and I agree with you, but no, it's not that they are replacing thinking with intuition, thinking allows you to analyze or use logic, intuition is...(incorrectly) simply stated as a hyper sense, which indeed could tell you what 'is.'

That is, no one is going to confuse thinking and intuition, they're way separate. You can (most of the time) trace the thinking, but (rarely) trace the intuition.

maybe misleading to an S....
srs jk

 

[Paladin-X]

ugh...ISTP. Jk...kind of.
srsly jk.

I know what you're thinking, and I agree with you, but no, it's not that they are replacing thinking with intuition, thinking allows you to analyze or use logic, intuition is...(incorrectly) simply stated as a hyper sense, which indeed could tell you what 'is.'

That is, no one is going to confuse thinking and intuition, they're way separate. You can (most of the time) trace the thinking, but (rarely) trace the intuition.

maybe misleading to an S....
srs jk

I'm not talking about analyzing or using logic. I am interpreting Jung's words more literally:

"Sensation (i.e., sense perception) tells you that something exists; thinking tells you what it is; feeling tells you whether it is agreeable or not; and intuition tells you whence it comes and where it is going."

 

[TimeAsylums]

Ugh S's and literal things

come on, everyone claims he was an Ni himself, you can't take an N literally
, but yes I am familiar with the definitions you used above, I still don't find the previous misleading, if anything it merely asserts that the intuition is unconscious, clearly the thinking is conscious, maybe it's only the part I quoted getting at you, see the rest of the link because I only quoted important quips.

 

[Montresor]

Ugh S's and literal things

come on, everyone claims he was an Ni himself, you can't take an N literally
, but yes I am familiar with the definitions you used above, I still don't find the previous misleading, if anything it merely asserts that the intuition is unconscious, clearly the thinking is conscious, maybe it's only the part I quoted getting at you, see the rest of the link because I only quoted important quips.

Ugh, N-dom.


It is like you prefer things than don't make sense and flatly ignore things that do.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Ugh, N-dom.
It is like you prefer things than don't make sense

just...yes

and flatly ignore things that do.

...they're so boring!

...I precisely like to (try to) surround myself with friends(and people) smarter than myself...because they're so interesting.

 

[QuickTwist]

You guys are ridiculous. Taking pride in your Sness and Nness like you had something to do with it.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Taking pride

I do not recall any of the following statements:

"They suck"
"I'm awesome"
"I'm better"
etc.

Because I like to point out pros/cons of both sides that makes me prideful...yes.

Obviously genetics and evolution have played their roles indeed.
Yet are not athletes celebrated for their skill etc?
Regardless, I'm not making an argument for having pride, just pointing things out.
Also, nothing wrong with having pride, but being prideful I suppose.

Just like to note out everything lol

 

[QuickTwist]

ugh...ISTP. Jk...kind of.
srsly jk...
srs jk

Ugh, N-dom.


It is like you prefer things than don't make sense and flatly ignore things that do.

just...yes


...they're so boring!

...I precisely like to (try to) surround myself with friends(and people) smarter than myself...because they're so interesting.

Ok I retract my statement. You all think you are superior to your opposite way of taking in information as opposed to taking pride in it. Big freakin difference.

 

[Montresor]

just...yes


...they're so boring!

...I precisely like to (try to) surround myself with friends(and people) smarter than myself...because they're so interesting.

Good stuff. There is no superiority or whatever. I think he missed out. You are smart and extraverted which is apparently a winning combo.


Also, sorry for the glaring typo, cell phone and all that comes with it.


Quicktwist, what the fuck is wrong with being proud of who you are?? Well in your case actually.....

 

[Montresor]

You guys are ridiculous. Taking pride in your Sness and Nness like you had something to do with it.

I'm most proud of my I-ness and my P-Ness bro.

 

[TimeAsylums]

You are smart and extraverted which is apparently a winning combo.

LOL this joke is not lost on me. But
"apparently a winning combo" can also be replaced with "rare," >_< lulz.
The introverts (generally) have the upper hand in the cerebral atmosphere, statistically speaking and from personal experience; a simple a fact I can't deny. And with Jung's differentiation of the two >_< lols. But that's why I made an N/S not I/E thread ahahah.

I mean look where we are
^hint Intp forum lol

I'm most proud of my P-Ness

...beat me to it.

@QT, go back to the land of chaos!

 

[TimeAsylums]

Big freakin difference.

Any 'minor' thing is indeed a

Big freakin difference.

to any T, I would hope.

Ok I retract my

P-Ness

 

[QuickTwist]

Obviously we have different ideas (values) that make up the core of our personalities.

Where I am coming from is based on the fact that if you did nothing to earn whatever it is that you "accomplished" then why would you ever get all sentimental and get satisfaction in how "accomplished" you are. To take pride in what comes easy is vanity.

My best friend IRL would debate me on this and say you can get as much satisfaction in a small "win" as you can a big "win". Just so you guys can understand, he would be considered an ENFJ. He is very smart but I think I am right in saying that the more effort it take to succeed while succeeding, the more rewarding it is. That's why I don't get why people take pride in being different. Of course there is nothing wrong with taking pride in your characteristics if you have put effort into being that way, like being honest in all circumstances without fudging on the details or altering them for example.

Honestly what I am saying is just common sense which is my strong suit.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Obviously we have different ideas (values) that make up the core of our personalities.

That's not what you're arguing over here...
You are mistaken that we are taking pride only because we are different.
I'm not taking pride in it at all.
I don't know how many times I'll have to say it but:
I'm pointing out pros and cons, benefits and pitfalls of both sides....

Where I am coming from is based on the fact that if you did nothing to earn
whatever it is that you "accomplished" then why would you ever get all sentimental and get satisfaction in how "accomplished" you are. To take pride in what comes easy is vanity.

Obviously genetics and evolution have played their roles indeed.

You clearly misunderstand us.

Honestly what I am saying is just common sense which is my strong suit.

...pointing out common sense. You do realize the redundancy in this, don't you? If it is common sense, why need it be said. Also, while you may believe it is 'common sense' your perception of the situation is incorrect, you have incorrectly and inaccurately assessed us. I have already told you there is no pride in it, yet you continue to argue the same inane point.

Ugh, Am I talking to an NF/SF or something. Whenever people don't get around to the actual matter at hand = , they're usually Fs. I noticed you're profile is set at INXP, I haven't assessed any of your other posts at all, but just based off of this (which obviously isn't nearly enough) I'm leaning towards INFP - then again anyone can get confused, so don't take that to heart. Feels like @Brontosaurie should be here trolling me as well

Edit: I went through a few of your past posts, I can't say what you're not, but since you listed yourself as an INxP, I definitely buy the F.



this argument makes sense now

...whew.

 

[Paladin-X]

Interestingly, according to Psychologists, common sense is not all that common.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201107/common-sense-is-neither-common-nor-sense

 

[TimeAsylums]

lol I don't suppose you actually were viewing http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=16948

if not...interesting coincidence...

Anyway...ugh more S...gotta get outta here!

 

[Paladin-X]

Anyway...ugh more S...gotta get outta here!

You probably should. You wouldn't want to get it all over you. It's contagious and icky.

 

[Paladin-X]

Here are some of my comparisons to add to the original discussion:

Sensation vs Intuition

Perceive vs Conceive
Distinction vs Connection
Being vs Meaning
Details vs Big Picture
Existence vs Essence
Part vs Whole
Trees vs Forest
Physical vs Metaphysical

 

[scorpiomover]

This is slightly misleading. It gives the impression that Intuition tells us what 'it' is; however, that is the role of Thinking. The last sentence I would say is also inaccurate as this sounds like Thinking.

Intuition is about the possibilities "from whence 'it' came and whither 'it' goes," according to Jung. I would agree that seeing 'it' wholistically, ie Big Picture, allows one to better follow those possibilities.

Sensation is that which is gleaned from the senses, i.e. the biological mechanisms of the brain and the body that deal with processing sensory data and building up perceptions of reality from it, which is quite a lot of the brain.

Another part of the brain that deals with perceptions of reality, is the neocortex, which happens to deal with anticipating common potential dangers, by playing out possible simulations into the future, based on the perceptions that we have already arrived at that are gleaned from the sensory system.

Thus, the senses are about "what it looks like", while the intuition deals with "what is might be, now, in the future, and in the past as well".

 

[JimJambones]

I find, when compared to my sensor coworkers, they grasp learning something new much more quickly and apply it more readily; maybe it is combination of sensing and/or extroverted judging preferences. Anyways, people have commented behind my back that I just don't get things, that I catch on slow. I dislike when we're instructed on a new analyzer and they volunteer me to demonstrate what we were taught. I feel like such an idiot under these circumstances because I haven't had time to process it all on my own and I hate people watching me while I'm working. But, I tend to get a much better grasp of things in the end because I'm constantly taking in new information and trying to fit it into my current understanding. Then people usually end up coming to me for advice. A bit ironic really.

 

[TimeAsylums]

I find, when compared to my sensor coworkers, they grasp learning something new much more quickly and apply it more readily; maybe it is combination of sensing and/or extroverted judging preferences.

Same thing with my classmates.

Anyways, people have commented behind my back that I just don't get things, that I catch on slow.

Seriously? I've never had that problem, maybe catching up on 'sensor' things slow, or because we(you) don't show the same signs as them when they're "getting it" they simply(and incorrectly) assume that you "don't get it."

 

[JimJambones]

Same thing with my classmates.



Seriously? I've never had that problem, maybe catching up on 'sensor' things slow, or because we(you) don't show the same signs as them when they're "getting it" they simply(and incorrectly) assume that you "don't get it."

Yes, that. I actually learn rather quickly, but I appear slow when having to extrovert my new skills for the first time because it is mainly procedural(which I easily neglect) and requires good sensor skills. That and I ask types of questions that others usually don't so I can gain an even better understanding, while others are ready to "just do it."

 

[QuickTwist]

Yes, that. I actually learn rather quickly, but I appear slow when having to extrovert my new skills for the first time because it is mainly procedural(which I easily neglect) and requires good sensor skills. That and I ask types of questions that others usually don't so I can gain an even better understanding, while others are ready to "just do it."

Same. When we are doing lab for electronics I understand the theory completely but then applying it to a circuit board take time for me to learn. Maybe its just because I just read about it in my textbook?

 

[jie2]

I find, when compared to my sensor coworkers, they grasp learning something new much more quickly and apply it more readily;

Same here. And I have always puzzled over this. While coworkers will more quickly grasp the surface details of the topic at hand, I quickly become bogged down trying to understand the underlying picture/principles, dismissing the surface details until I can see how they fit into the bigger picture (which can be a frustrating way to learn). Once I come around to grasping the concept as a whole, I end up knowing the topic at hand better than the others who were quicker on the uptake.

 

[Montresor]

The rarity (and special needs) of N-types is exemplified more readily in my line of work than any other, I would argue.

The first thing I would note is that you (N-types) could possibly hold the questions until after the speaker is done speaking... It indicates that you aren't listening, and therefore aren't as likely to grasp the concept as quickly, because you would prefer to think about other things that are hardly relevant in the here and now.

Secondly,

they grasp learning something new much more quickly and apply it more readily; maybe it is combination of sensing and/or extroverted judging preferences

This doesn't make sense to me. Either you are talking about SJ types or you mean the inferior/tertiary Je function of a Se type? Either way, I believe you (this whole thread) are (is) specifically talking about SPs so you should remember that this^^ "combination" isn't really effective......... The extraverted judging function of a SP type is typically paired with their Ni, ja?


Thirdly,

Another part of the brain that deals with perceptions of reality, is the neocortex, which happens to deal with anticipating common potential dangers, by playing out possible simulations into the future, based on the perceptions that we have already arrived at that are gleaned from the sensory system.

This is what happens when intuitives try to explain things... this is just not how it works!

Neocortex is responsible for a helluvalot more than just Jung's intuition. In fact, the entire sensorimotor region is neocortex. Same with the occipital lobe. Oh my god I'm not getting into this again..... People constantly TRY to talk about the brain here on this forum but nobody seems to want to engage any REAL discussion about it. It's sad.


Right, back on topic. N-types: less interested in facts, more interested in ideas.

Well then, perhaps this really gets to the root of why they/you make such bad construction workers...
Your ideas have to be functional to be commended/implemented. End of story.

I remember working with an intuitive before; we were laying subfloor sheeting, one of the simplest jobs you can give a guy. Just drop the sheet where it goes and use this sledgehammer and stick to bash the tongue and groove together. Most sensors get it first try, with one demonstration, and they have the skill for life. It's basically expected that a person will get it first or second try.

"Oh, no here let me show you - you're doing it wrong."
"Not working, huh? Well try it this way..."
"You just don't get it, do you? Do it like this. Here, watch me..."
"No _____, that's completely idiotic. Stop trying to have new ideas about something you've never done before!"

^Obviously Ne>Si.

Now, imagine you've never heard of MBTI or intuition, and you are a dumbshit sensor who thinks everybody is just like you. Would you think this^ person is a moron or what!?!?

What if he explains that he has a master's in journalism? Does that even matter to a S-type? No, because he can't complete this simple task that he's currently being paid to do.


Tired of hearing how sensors are such "idea people" yet?

hahaha elitism.

 

[TimeAsylums]

The first thing I would note is that you (N-types) could possibly hold the questions until after the speaker is done speaking...

an N have questions?
what?
rofl.
joking of course

hahaha elitism.

Sigh :/ every time I attempt to explain some 'N' things to ANYYYYY 'S' they say "oh, you sound like an elitist."

You can find S people working in NASA, being surgeons, beingwhateverthehellyouwanttobe

but our quarrel lies in much of your inability to grasp some N things, because we can comprehend and understand on how S works.

but our quarrel lies in much of your inability to grasp some N things

Oh no that sounds very elitist...

Every single time I try talking about something (mainly with S) always have to bring up the point:

Jesus christ, we never said you couldn't be an astrophysicist or president or what ever the hell you want to be, if you've suffered harsh N attacks because your an S on the forum, ok well get over it, we know you can do just as good as job in us in whateverthefuckyouwanto


We are simply over-annoyed at/with you, we may care about and do the same things we just do it in a drastically different way.

 

[Montresor]

Whoa man. Be cool.

Can I not stand alone and at least attempt to illustrate alternative viewpoints? I like this forum. Nobody hurts my feelings about being S. I hold no resentment. I think about this all day long.

I think you misinterpret my mindset here. I particularly enjoy arguing as devil's advocate. That doesn't really sit well with Fe-types I guess.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Whoa man. Be cool.
That doesn't really sit well

Oh god...forgot you were an ISFP, wondering why I was getting a super heavy F feel from that post...Fi oh lawdy.

 

[Montresor]

Thus demonstrating the desire to influence group dynamics through ridicule and apparent indifference/ slashing humor. Putting yourself above me because you fit in and I don't.

Totally pathetic.

The way you add things to peoples quotes is functionally equivalent to "quoting out of context" - something which you seem quite prone to. You have no backbone.

Each new thought propels you into a brick wall and you bounce back a little duller every time.

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

Can I not stand alone and at least attempt to illustrate alternative viewpoints? I like this forum. Nobody hurts my feelings about being S. I hold no resentment. I think about this all day long.

I think you misinterpret my mindset here. I particularly enjoy arguing as devil's advocate. That doesn't really sit well with Fe-types I guess.

I am amused how you would go into an INTP forum and call people with N-type thinking as "dumbshits", then say that you are simply illustrating alternative viewpoints and enjoy playing devil's advocate. That may be how you started, but i think we can all agree that the last few posts have all become personal attacks instead of a discussion, and everyone here is guilty of this.

Rather than we all argue and trade insults, I am interested in your viewpoint. The majority of us are N-types and I would actually like to know how S-types learn.

I read your example about the N-type who wasn't able to do the practical stuff. I can relate - I much prefer history, philosophy, classics, literature and psychology to anything practical. It's not a learning thing - food gets burnt, painting goes a little crazy, and the video player is still in pieces where I took it apart and was then too lazy to fix it. Your example wasn't about learning, it was more about doing.

I am currently studying accountancy, and I interrupt and ask questions all the time. It helps me give a full view of the subject, and a lot of the questions not only enlighten the other students, but helps me connect the dots so that in chapter 7, something in chapter 3 suddenly makes complete sense. It also makes it easier for me in exams as I have learnt the material from every angle.

How do you find learning in a brand new subject - something not practical? In most exams (law, English, accountancy, new languages), the text books form the foundation information, and the exam question requires the application of the knowledge, so it is essential to be able to turn the material around in your head, to know everything about it, so that the questions can be fully answered correctly. As an S-type, I would like to know how you go about doing this?

 

[Brontosaurie]

I particularly enjoy arguing as devil's advocate. That doesn't really sit well with Fe-types I guess.

???

 

[DelusiveNinja]

I am amused how you would go into an INTP forum and call people with N-type thinking as "dumbshits", then say that you are simply illustrating alternative viewpoints and enjoy playing devil's advocate. That may be how you started, but i think we can all agree that the last few posts have all become personal attacks instead of a discussion, and everyone here is guilty of this.

Rather than we all argue and trade insults, I am interested in your viewpoint. The majority of us are N-types and I would actually like to know how S-types learn.

I read your example about the N-type who wasn't able to do the practical stuff. I can relate - I much prefer history, philosophy, classics, literature and psychology to anything practical. It's not a learning thing - food gets burnt, painting goes a little crazy, and the video player is still in pieces where I took it apart and was then too lazy to fix it. Your example wasn't about learning, it was more about doing.

I am currently studying accountancy, and I interrupt and ask questions all the time. It helps me give a full view of the subject, and a lot of the questions not only enlighten the other students, but helps me connect the dots so that in chapter 7, something in chapter 3 suddenly makes complete sense. It also makes it easier for me in exams as I have learnt the material from every angle.

How do you find learning in a brand new subject - something not practical? In most exams (law, English, accountancy, new languages), the text books form the foundation information, and the exam question requires the application of the knowledge, so it is essential to be able to turn the material around in your head, to know everything about it, so that the questions can be fully answered correctly. As an S-type, I would like to know how you go about doing this?

I'm kind of the same. I never really noticed how much I try to avoid doing "useful" things with myself. I love to dive into what some "S types" find uninteresting or useless. I just realized that I like to read, research, and conduct experiments from psychological or physical distance. I am called lazy because I enjoy intellectual stimulation or the subjective more than the objective. Things like reading over playing sports. The only thing I have ever done objective that I found fun was playing tag, racing up the street, or running in general.

 

[TimeAsylums]

???

Don't even know @Bronto, man. Don't care, won't bother lol.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Don't even know @Bronto, man. Don't care, won't bother lol.

i think Fi type is more "deep inner feelz is true, don't betray yourself, feelingz is serious" etc. hence less comfortable with devil's advocate.

no?

 

[Montresor]

I am amused how you would go into an INTP forum and call people with N-type thinking as "dumbshits", then say that you are simply illustrating alternative viewpoints and enjoy playing devil's advocate. That may be how you started, but i think we can all agree that the last few posts have all become personal attacks instead of a discussion, and everyone here is guilty of this.

Rather than we all argue and trade insults, I am interested in your viewpoint. The majority of us are N-types and I would actually like to know how S-types learn.

I read your example about the N-type who wasn't able to do the practical stuff. I can relate - I much prefer history, philosophy, classics, literature and psychology to anything practical. It's not a learning thing - food gets burnt, painting goes a little crazy, and the video player is still in pieces where I took it apart and was then too lazy to fix it. Your example wasn't about learning, it was more about doing.

I am currently studying accountancy, and I interrupt and ask questions all the time. It helps me give a full view of the subject, and a lot of the questions not only enlighten the other students, but helps me connect the dots so that in chapter 7, something in chapter 3 suddenly makes complete sense. It also makes it easier for me in exams as I have learnt the material from every angle.

How do you find learning in a brand new subject - something not practical? In most exams (law, English, accountancy, new languages), the text books form the foundation information, and the exam question requires the application of the knowledge, so it is essential to be able to turn the material around in your head, to know everything about it, so that the questions can be fully answered correctly. As an S-type, I would like to know how you go about doing this?

OK so this thread has gotten ridiculous. I tried simply to contribute to it.

Time Asylums has pissed me off on a personal level but I'll leave it alone here because I KNOW nobody wants to read that shit on this forum. So, sorry to everybody but him.

I am amused how you would go into an INTP forum and call people with N-type thinking as "dumbshits"

Now, let me start by redirecting you to my post, where I called SENSORS dumbshits, because generally they are, for failing to recognize the alternative talents and usefulness of N-types. get it now???

I don't mind when people challenge the things I say but there is only so much weight your post holds when you failed to read and interpret mine before replying.

Next, I was trying to contribute to the discussion (led by N-types) about how they see the N/S divide and specific examples they have about being unable to pick up practical tasks quickly.

I wanted to share an alternative viewpoint (mine, that of a SP), about what WE see when YOU fail at these tasks. What we see is a person who fails to listen and constantly wants to try and do it their own way with their own ideas. Ne is so dismissive of concrete "sensory" things that it deliberately/purposefully ignores them in favour of lala land. To us (S), it simply looks like you're not listening and don't care.

So my advice to any Ne type who wants to learn something that isn't brain-work (like, for example, if you're GETTING PAID to do it - as in my anecdote about the ENTP construction worker), is to be quiet and listen and try to pay attention. Be a neanderthal for a minute and just pay attention.

 

[Montresor]

i think Fi type is more "deep inner feelz is true, don't betray yourself, feelingz is serious" etc. hence less comfortable with devil's advocate.

no?

No. The conclusion does not follow the premise. Logic fail.

Fi type organize their external world in a logical concrete way. They rarely display any feelings to the outside world.

Generally cold and plain-faced. Different from the INTP, who's dominant Ti is displayed to the outside world through Fe. The outward persona (extraverted functions) of the Fi are "Pe" and Te.

However, you are right in your premises that inner feelings are deep and "true", and DEFINITELY taken seriously.

I think the "devil's advocate" role fits the bill perfectly. I'll maintain my argument that Fe-types are less comfortable with a D.A. in the room because it upsets the group.

 

[Brontosaurie]

No. The conclusion does not follow the premise. Logic fail.

if someone is more concerned with what is emotionally genuine, they can be expected to be more disturbed by people "violating" or hypothetically transgressing their inner emotional selves.

this isn't formal logic (neither is your post) but, to me, valid reasoning.

otoh, an Fi type may also be expected to have a deeper more nuanced and flexible understanding of emotions which allows for exceptions such as D.A.


you have a point in relating D.A. aversion to group mechanics. group emotions are more about surface-level stability and consistency i suppose.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Time Asylums has pissed me off on a personal level

Well, at least he admits it. Mature enough for me, imo.


I mean, apparently it's personal(Fi...lol), but I can let it go because he recognizes (and admits) it

So, sorry to everybody but him.

Meh, tert Fe(els)

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

I'm kind of the same. I never really noticed how much I try to avoid doing "useful" things with myself. I love to dive into what some "S types" find uninteresting or useless. I just realized that I like to read, research, and conduct experiments from psychological or physical distance. I am called lazy because I enjoy intellectual stimulation or the subjective more than the objective. Things like reading over playing sports. The only thing I have ever done objective that I found fun was playing tag, racing up the street, or running in general.

I love reading and researching. My friend calls me her wikipedia - but only for history and philosophy, nothing that normal people know My mum calls me lazy, and while I have (rare) moments of doing stuff, I prefer intellectual stimulation too. Although I enjoy energetic things like dancing and self-defence. Generally, it's about engaging the brain and neglecting everything else!

 

[Shut the Fe Up!]

Next, I was trying to contribute to the discussion (led by N-types) about how they see the N/S divide and specific examples they have about being unable to pick up practical tasks quickly.

I wanted to share an alternative viewpoint (mine, that of a SP), about what WE see when YOU fail at these tasks. What we see is a person who fails to listen and constantly wants to try and do it their own way with their own ideas. Ne is so dismissive of concrete "sensory" things that it deliberately/purposefully ignores them in favour of lala land. To us (S), it simply looks like you're not listening and don't care.

So my advice to any Ne type who wants to learn something that isn't brain-work (like, for example, if you're GETTING PAID to do it - as in my anecdote about the ENTP construction worker), is to be quiet and listen and try to pay attention. Be a neanderthal for a minute and just pay attention.

I agree, that when you're paid to do a task, you need to follow the task itself. For manual labour, that is a given. Most of my jobs have been to see how people do things, and make the system more efficient. For me, I have to understand everything.

I don't think INTP's are built for manual work, ha ha. We need to do things our own way. But depending on the job, that's a good thing.